Unfortunately I've forgotten just about all of my music theory. But I will say that was my favorite sleeper from that album. I don't think it was ever released as a single but a wonderul album cut. I've found myself revisiting that song more than other bigger hits. -
It's just 4/4 throughout; there's no change. I think the confusion is because it's heavily syncopated, and because it's one of those tracks where you can hear the pulse in the wrong place during the opening section and then get thrown when the main section of the song starts. (It's like when I listen to Fela Kuti tracks sometimes, and, halfway through, realise that I've been hearing it all wrong. )
[Edited 9/19/15 10:43am]
"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
You see, initially, I thought it was closer to a march time, which is usually 2/2 or 2/4. Because it sounds alla breve, I didn't think 4/4 was too accurate.
But I thought for certain that the tempo changes ever so slightly during some parts. Ugh; I'll have to listen to it again but you and Cinny may be right about it not changing.
I concur its 4/4 I've never heard this before. It's a very strange groove. Every second bar there is no kick or percussion on the one, and that contributes to a kind of on edge, disconcerting, push-pull feel.
That's exactly right. And especially in funk when it's all about the one, it feels like you've just ran off a cliff.
^ I think people may be hearing the pulse in the wrong place. There's a kick on the 1 in every bar. (The bass hits the root note on the first 1 of every four bar sequence, too.) That said, the kick drum pattern's kind of irregular in how it 'frames' hitting the 1. The tension seems to come from a combination of the play between kick and snare, with the latter being displaced and missing the 2, then attacking the upbeat in the middle of the sequence; and the syncopation in the bass, with the popping and slapping off the beat and hitting the root note behind the 1 at various points.
"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
^ I think people may be hearing the pulse in the wrong place. There's a kick on the 1 in every bar. (The bass hits the root note on the first 1 of every four bar sequence, too.) That said, the kick drum pattern's kind of irregular in how it 'frames' hitting the 1. The tension seems to come from a combination of the play between kick and snare, with the latter being displaced and missing the 2, then attacking the upbeat in the middle of the sequence; and the syncopation in the bass, with the popping and slapping off the beat and hitting the root note behind the 1 at various points.
Well I hear it with the first snare on the two. That's what makes sense in my mind. So at the very start of the song there is two kicks and a snare...to me the 2nd kick is the one and then the snare is the two. It makes sense when the changes come in because then the changes come on the 1.
Counting like that, there is definitely no kick on most even numbered bars.
How the heck are you coumting it?
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
^ I think people may be hearing the pulse in the wrong place. There's a kick on the 1 in every bar. (The bass hits the root note on the first 1 of every four bar sequence, too.) That said, the kick drum pattern's kind of irregular in how it 'frames' hitting the 1. The tension seems to come from a combination of the play between kick and snare, with the latter being displaced and missing the 2, then attacking the upbeat in the middle of the sequence; and the syncopation in the bass, with the popping and slapping off the beat and hitting the root note behind the 1 at various points.
Well I hear it with the first snare on the two. That's what makes sense in my mind. So at the very start of the song there is two kicks and a snare...to me the 2nd kick is the one and then the snare is the two. It makes sense when the changes come in because then the changes come on the 1.
Counting like that, there is definitely no kick on most even numbered bars.
How the heck are you coumting it?
Yes, I thought that might be where the disparity was. That's where I was hearing the pulse to begin with, too. And I think that's where the sense that there are some shorter 3/4 bars or something comes from, especially when the guitar turnaround thingy comes in. But, as you say, listening to it that way gives you the sense that everything's a bit 'out', which might be taken as a sign that something's up. Even the synth pad comes in a bit ahead of the beat, and it sort of feels like everything's stumbling in haphazardly.
I think it's actually that the first of those two kicks at the very start of the track is the 1. When you listen to it like that the whole groove locks in; there's no sense of anything being 'out'; and no incomplete/irregular bars are needed to make all the sections 'fit'. Where it's particularly clear for me is after the turnaround when we go back to the groove. At that point, the bass and kick come back slap-bang on the 1, and we're right in the pocket. The first word of the vocal is also on the 1.
"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
I concur its 4/4 I've never heard this before. It's a very strange groove. Every second bar there is no kick or percussion on the one, and that contributes to a kind of on edge, disconcerting, push-pull feel.
That's exactly right. And especially in funk when it's all about the one, it feels like you've just ran off a cliff.
I don't even know how I heard it like this, now that deebee set us straight.
Well I hear it with the first snare on the two. That's what makes sense in my mind. So at the very start of the song there is two kicks and a snare...to me the 2nd kick is the one and then the snare is the two. It makes sense when the changes come in because then the changes come on the 1.
Counting like that, there is definitely no kick on most even numbered bars.
How the heck are you coumting it?
Yes, I thought that might be where the disparity was. That's where I was hearing the pulse to begin with, too. And I think that's where the sense that there are some shorter 3/4 bars or something comes from, especially when the guitar turnaround thingy comes in. But, as you say, listening to it that way gives you the sense that everything's a bit 'out', which might be taken as a sign that something's up. Even the synth pad comes in a bit ahead of the beat, and it sort of feels like everything's stumbling in haphazardly.
I think it's actually that the first of those two kicks at the very start of the track is the 1. When you listen to it like that the whole groove locks in; there's no sense of anything being 'out'; and no incomplete/irregular bars are needed to make all the sections 'fit'. Where it's particularly clear for me is after the turnaround when we go back to the groove. At that point, the bass and kick come back slap-bang on the 1, and we're right in the pocket. The first word of the vocal is also on the 1.
It's all in the eye of the beholder really.
I like to dance so I let my feet guide me. Tapping my foot and bopping my head to the groove in this case feels right to me when the first snare lands on the two but I can hear it how you hear it too.
I know that when I'm producing music, sometimes I'll start the groove part way through a bar for the intro, just to fuck with peoples heads
Playing in a band one of our horn players used to hear the two snare hits at the start of Curtis Mayfield "Move On Up" as the one and two of the first bar but I hear them as beats 3&4 of a lead in bar, and then the band comes in on one. It'd drive me crazy because I like to improvise a bit and then bring that horn hook back in on the fly from my count in.
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
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I heard it in these terms.
