SeventeenDayze said:

MattyJam said:

My top ten:

1. Who Is It
2. Morphine
3. They Don't Care About Us
4. Smooth Criminal
5. Billie Jean
6. Little Susie
7. Music & Me
8. Push Me Away
9. To Make My Father Proud
10. Jam

I agree with you about Who Is It! I just love the intro to that song, it's like a quintessential MJ song! One of his best!!!!

Me3, Who is it is in a class of its own. It even reminds me a bit of Prince. Does that resonate with y'all?

Seeing voices just leaked...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrDBt-LvP9A

Adorecream said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I agree with you about Who Is It! I just love the intro to that song, it's like a quintessential MJ song! One of his best!!!!

Me3, Who is it is in a class of its own. It even reminds me a bit of Prince. Does that resonate with y'all?

Yeah I love the song but it doesn't really remind me of Prince at all--it's got MJ's signature sound all over it though.

Joe Jackson hospitalized

Los Angeles - July 27, 2015 - Business Standard

Showbiz patriarch Joe Jackson has been hospitalised after reportedly suffering a stroke.

The Jackson family patriarch, whose kids include Janet Jackson and the late Michael Jackson, endured the health setback on his 87th birthday while in Sao Paulo, Brazil on July 26, reported Us magazine.

Jackson was admitted to Albert Einstein Hospital after feeling dizzy and losing his vision. He is still undergoing tests.

Just hours earlier, Janet posted a sweet message to her father.

"Wishing my Father, @Joe5Jackson a Happy Birthday," the "No Sleeep" singer, 49, tweeted.

"I want to tell the world, I love and honour you."

Joe has reportedly suffered three previous strokes. The former Jackson 5 manager suffered a mild stroke in November 2012. At the time, he complained of having pains in his head and had difficulty standing. He stayed under observation at a Las Vegas hospital.

dublinproud said:

Seeing voices just leaked...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrDBt-LvP9A

I love the song! Michael could have did scores for movies and plays. His voice is so beautiful and theatrical. Get well soon Joe!

What a shame about Joe, maybe now he will feel some of the pain he put his family through.

.

I will cry crocodile tears.

[Edited 7/28/15 2:54am]

Adorecream said:

What a shame about Joe, maybe now he will feel some of the pain he put his family through.

.

I will cry crocodile tears.

[Edited 7/28/15 2:54am]

unfrickinbelievable

Scorp said:

Adorecream said:

What a shame about Joe, maybe now he will feel some of the pain he put his family through.

.

I will cry crocodile tears.

[Edited 7/28/15 2:54am]

unfrickinbelievable

The man is a horrid excuse of a human being. I feel no sadness for him.

MattyJam said:

Scorp said:

unfrickinbelievable

The man is a horrid excuse of a human being. I feel no sadness for him.

once again, unfrickinbelievable

and the only reason you feel that ways is because of the boatloads of lies spoken of him and this family over the past quarter century

and that's why this is the saddest situation I've ever seen in a public forum that has carried out over time....nothing comes close to this

Scorp said:

MattyJam said:

The man is a horrid excuse of a human being. I feel no sadness for him.

once again, unfrickinbelievable

and the only reason you feel that ways is because of the boatloads of lies spoken of him and this family over the past quarter century

and that's why this is the saddest situation I've ever seen in a public forum that has carried out over time....nothing comes close to this

I remember just days after Michael's passing and there was a tonne of press gathered outside the family home waiting for a statement regarding a funeral etc, and Joe came out announcing plans for a new record label. I will never forget that day, what an utterly disgraceful, cold and shameless thing to do. It's hardly surprising his family aren't queueing around the block to visit him in hospital.

MattyJam said:

Do not believe your eyes and what Michael himself said about King Joseph Jackson. He is as infallible as his children. Not too shabby for a child beating twit, as he beat the talent into those kids.

Scorp said:

MattyJam said:

I remember just days after Michael's passing and there was a tonne of press gathered outside the family home waiting for a statement regarding a funeral etc, and Joe came out announcing plans for a new record label. I will never forget that day, what an utterly disgraceful, cold and shameless thing to do. It's hardly surprising his family aren't queueing around the block to visit him in hospital.

1. He knows something that those who hate him dont know 2. And the false fables about him abusing his children did not exist until they were cooked up a quarter century ago

Could you be any more vague? So you are claiming MJ lied about Joe's abuse (not quite sure how you would claim to know this unless you were there at the time). And what possible excuse is there for Joe using his sons death to promote his own record label? Unless you're insinuating some crazy-ass theory that Joe helped MJ fake his death.....

MattyJam said:

Scorp said:

MattyJam said:

Could you be any more vague? So you are claiming MJ lied about Joe's abuse (not quite sure how you would claim to know this unless you were there at the time). And what possible excuse is there for Joe using his sons death to promote his own record label? Unless you're insinuating some crazy-ass theory that Joe helped MJ fake his death.....

U just answered your own questions U have been duped by who becane the greatest media manipulator we have ever seen when u start looking between lines

Have you been forgetting to take your meds?

Let me just say one thing on the Joe Jackson comments. Without Joe Jackson there would be no Michael Jackson. A lot of folks don't realise when MJ was getting disrespected from his"This is it" staff, the person he called out for was Joe.

You know I was just wondering if with all the money the Estate was making if they would buy back Neverland....I guess not at that price. Pity.

MattyJam said:

Scorp said:

MattyJam said:

Have you been forgetting to take your meds?

Im not into hurling out insults

Well you haven't exactly offered up much in the way of conversation. Some vague insinuations about devil Michael using his saintly family to buffer up his own self image. If you're going to make some claims back them up with something. How do you know Joe didn't beat his kids and that MJ was lying? Unless you can answer that question, then I'll just assume you pulled it out from thin air.

Thanks MattyJam (You're in the MJJ community too?).

.

I said those things about Joseph, because everything I had read and seen about MJ's life involves tales of how Joe punched, smashed, whacked and beat Michael and his brothers to a pupl. Yes I will admit Joseph cared for the boys to the point of keeping them off the streets and ensuring no one went hungry in the Jackson household, but he never gave them love, just made them scared of him all the time. MJ had the guts to stand up to him and prove him wrong. One of the main reasonsfor MJ's nose surgeries was so he did not look like Joseph, a man he detested the most in the world along with Tom Sneddon.

.

Joe says his heart was broken when MJ fired him as his manager, in reality Joe was upset his greatest cash cow had left the stable and could be no longer exploited by him. The book Moonwalker and the programme "The Jacksons an American Dream" are full of references Joe's abuse and quickness with a switch or his fists to mete out punishment to any Jackson sibling who missed a step, a note or talked back. And then lets not even go into how he treated Katherine, cheating on her and breaking her heart many times.

.

All he cared about was MONEY, his labels and stupid vanity projects like Joe Cola. I hope this clears up my feelings for the dude.

MattyJam said:

Scorp said:

MattyJam said: Im not into hurling out insults

Well you haven't exactly offered up much in the way of conversation. Some vague insinuations about devil Michael using his saintly family to buffer up his own self image. If you're going to make some claims back them up with something. How do you know Joe didn't beat his kids and that MJ was lying? Unless you can answer that question, then I'll just assume you pulled it out from thin air.

JUST like Latoya in the late 80s when she accused Joe of sexually abusing her and Rebbie and Rebbie responded at teh first opportunity to vehemently deny that......Latoya knew she wasn't telling the truth and put that out there to draw attention to her book and jump start her solo career and then 10 years later she recanted

I can ask you the same thing, how do you know Joe didn't beat his kids and that MJ was lying?

everyone talks about how Michael was supposedly abused when the fact was Joe was more strict with his oldest children Jackie and Rebbie, but even while strict, neither Jackie or Rebbie ever said he abused them

the fans and the public from the 90s to the present moment dont' realize, cant' see, and don't want to see how much they have been swayed and manipulated about this situation, they have been had.....baaaaaaad

nobody is suggesting Joe Jackson didn't make mistakes, ain't no perfect parents in this world, but the Jackson five including Michael Jackson would not have had a career to speak of if Joe didn't have the foresight to have them sign with another label rather than staying at Motown as they were reaching adulthood, they would have been a nostalgia act otherwise and Michael acknowledged a long time ago that Joe Jackson never took one dime of his money and taught his children how to invest in themselves and their careers when we have many cases of child stars being robbed blind by their parents

Scorp said:

Adorecream said:

Just because it wasn't mentioned at the beginning of the Jacksons career it doesn't mean it was fabricated to make headlines. It's not like Michael would go on Ed Sullivan and say 'I dance real good because my dad, I mean Joe... beat it into me!'

It's obvious that Michael had some deep internal pain within him. Let's look at his nose for instance, he told Oprah years of taunting by his father, being called "ugly" and "big nose" had nothing to do with his constant surgeries to the point of having to have his nose rebuilt. But physcologists would differ. Michael constantly apologized while talking of Joe's behaviours that effected him, he would smile and add a 'but' to it, as if he wanted to have a silver lining or to even protect Joe. When asked if his brothers were jealous of him, he would say 'No'. Michael was generally positive about his family in public. He spoke of these things with a hope of understanding, even if it was hurting him.

In recent years, Janet has opened up about her relationship with her father. She told Piers Morgan she wanted to get closer to her father, and spoke of the lack of tenderness and a whooping she got very young, so it's not like this is something Michael made up for pity. He spoke about it in his private life too to friends, horrific things that the media never knew about. If he wanted pity he would have told it all to the world. It's an insult to Michael to say he's lying or making a mountain out of a molehill.

But to celebrate this and to wish anything but well to Joe is tasteless. Despite the relationship Joe has had with his children, they are there by his side, and if Michael was alive he would be too because that's the kind of person he was. Michael would more than likely be paying for the best treatment for Joe, that's not a dig at his family, it's the truth... Michael despite it all, took care of his family, his Mother and Father lived off of Michael's earnings, they still do today it's said. Michael didn't abadon his family.

Janet seems to have gotten closer to Joe, that's if her public posts about him are anything to go by. She put him in her music video, tweeted for his birthday and now walked out of rehersals to be with him...

Joe Jackson is a controversial figure, however, he's still a human being and a father... and despite it all Michael and the others tried to get close to him, or atleast tried to understand him. They were open to finding explanations to why Joe was the way he was. They probably longed for an explanation to why he wasn't the dad they longed for him to be.

I hoped and hoped to see some compassion radiate from Joe after Michael died, so yes the BET award show saga broke my already broken heart for Michael. People grieve in different ways, death and grief effects people very differently, and Joe is obviously a man who kepts his emotion to himself, and I would like to hope that at that point he was just confused and wanting to keep on carrying on. He has been quite open in interviews over the past 6 years without Michael, but he's still quite the mystery. He just seems like a very solitary figure...

"I love my father, but I don't know him." Michael Jackson

Anyway, I hope he gets well, a big stroke is horrible and it's painful for everyone, not just the victim of the stroke, it hurts to see someone you know to go through such things.

[Edited 7/30/15 16:17pm]

[Edited 7/30/15 16:19pm]

[Edited 7/30/15 16:20pm]

MattyJam said:

Scorp said:

JUST like Latoya in the late 80s when she accused Joe of sexually abusing her and Rebbie and Rebbie responded at teh first opportunity to vehemently deny that......Latoya knew she wasn't telling the truth and put that out there to draw attention to her book and jump start her solo career and then 10 years later she recanted

I can ask you the same thing, how do you know Joe didn't beat his kids and that MJ was lying?

everyone talks about how Michael was supposedly abused when the fact was Joe was more strict with his oldest children Jackie and Rebbie, but even while strict, neither Jackie or Rebbie ever said he abused them

the fans and the public from the 90s to the present moment dont' realize, cant' see, and don't want to see how much they have been swayed and manipulated about this situation, they have been had.....baaaaaaad

nobody is suggesting Joe Jackson didn't make mistakes, ain't no perfect parents in this world, but the Jackson five including Michael Jackson would not have had a career to speak of if Joe didn't have the foresight to have them sign with another label rather than staying at Motown as they were reaching adulthood, they would have been a nostalgia act otherwise and Michael acknowledged a long time ago that Joe Jackson never took one dime of his money and taught his children how to invest in themselves and their careers when we have many cases of child stars being robbed blind by their parents

What would MJ possibly have to gain from lying about Joe's abuse? He certainly didn't need the attention. Sympathy? Well, perhaps, but it'd be a pretty callous thing to do to your own father just for a bit of public sympathy. I'm sorry, I don't buy it. And from what I recall, not many of the other brothers have spoken out one way or the other confirming or denying Michael's accusations against Joe. MJ has openly said in the past that his older brothers had it worse than he did, but Michael was the golden goose, the pressure on MJ to deliver would likely be greater than the other brothers, after all he was the frontman and lead singer. If Jackie missed a dance move chances are nobody would notice. If Michael messes up he is centrestage and it wouldn't go unnoticed. That is the most likely explanation as to why MJ feared Joe to the point of regurgitating in his presence. Unless you're claiming that is a lie as well. If MJ really is the cold, pathological liar you claim he is, why have none of the rest of the family called him out on it, even after he died? There would be no repercussions and surely they would want to restore their father's tarnished public perception?

Everything said and done since Michael left The Jacksons on their own to promote Victory is a lie obviously.

MattyJam said:

Scorp said:

once again, unfrickinbelievable

and the only reason you feel that ways is because of the boatloads of lies spoken of him and this family over the past quarter century

and that's why this is the saddest situation I've ever seen in a public forum that has carried out over time....nothing comes close to this

I remember just days after Michael's passing and there was a tonne of press gathered outside the family home waiting for a statement regarding a funeral etc, and Joe came out announcing plans for a new record label. I will never forget that day, what an utterly disgraceful, cold and shameless thing to do. It's hardly surprising his family aren't queueing around the block to visit him in hospital.

Ooh yeah, the press conference. I thought it was at the Bet Awards that he tried to promote a new artist/label, then he did a press conference to 'explain' it because of the uproar?

MattyJam said:

Scorp said:

JUST like Latoya in the late 80s when she accused Joe of sexually abusing her and Rebbie and Rebbie responded at teh first opportunity to vehemently deny that......Latoya knew she wasn't telling the truth and put that out there to draw attention to her book and jump start her solo career and then 10 years later she recanted

I can ask you the same thing, how do you know Joe didn't beat his kids and that MJ was lying?

everyone talks about how Michael was supposedly abused when the fact was Joe was more strict with his oldest children Jackie and Rebbie, but even while strict, neither Jackie or Rebbie ever said he abused them

the fans and the public from the 90s to the present moment dont' realize, cant' see, and don't want to see how much they have been swayed and manipulated about this situation, they have been had.....baaaaaaad

nobody is suggesting Joe Jackson didn't make mistakes, ain't no perfect parents in this world, but the Jackson five including Michael Jackson would not have had a career to speak of if Joe didn't have the foresight to have them sign with another label rather than staying at Motown as they were reaching adulthood, they would have been a nostalgia act otherwise and Michael acknowledged a long time ago that Joe Jackson never took one dime of his money and taught his children how to invest in themselves and their careers when we have many cases of child stars being robbed blind by their parents

What would MJ possibly have to gain from lying about Joe's abuse? He certainly didn't need the attention. Sympathy? Well, perhaps, but it'd be a pretty callous thing to do to your own father just for a bit of public sympathy. I'm sorry, I don't buy it. And from what I recall, not many of the other brothers have spoken out one way or the other confirming or denying Michael's accusations against Joe. MJ has openly said in the past that his older brothers had it worse than he did, but Michael was the golden goose, the pressure on MJ to deliver would likely be greater than the other brothers, after all he was the frontman and lead singer. If Jackie missed a dance move chances are nobody would notice. If Michael messes up he is centrestage and it wouldn't go unnoticed. That is the most likely explanation as to why MJ feared Joe to the point of regurgitating in his presence. Unless you're claiming that is a lie as well. If MJ really is the cold, pathological liar you claim he is, why have none of the rest of the family called him out on it, even after he died? There would be no repercussions and surely they would want to restore their father's tarnished public perception?

wait, let's back this up for a second......

that golden goose comment MJ made was during that Oprah interview in 1993.......and he said golden child.......

if you are the "golden child" in the context of who MJ was, and since he was the centerpiece of the family act, if he "ran" it per se.....when u are the golden child, you often get the perks, for what those around you, in relation to you, or in the same situation as you, that person will tend to be showed favor and not be the brunt of what the others are said to experience

and throughout the years, the brothers HAVE countered those claims over the years but the majority of Michael's fans who became fans of his right after he started claiming would not believe them, it's a catch 22, if the brothers all did an interview today and said Joe did not abuse them, the fans and now the majority of the public wouldn't believe them anyway because the narrative has been stretched out for over a quarter century..Jermaine has alluded to it countless times...Marlon too....do you want proof that they have been countering the claims

check out what Marlon says, this was in 2013.....and check out what Marlon said about how the fans and the public crappin all over his family over the years has affected his children over the years...........Marlon even acknowledged that his father was tough and made sure they rehearsed until they got it right......but you can tell by his perspective that he knows the stories about abuse are false.......

do you want more proof, here's another tidbit of insight

fast forward to about 7 minutes in the clip and peep on what Marlon saids, they check out what jackie said and tito said, not just Joe Jackson but all the other fathers in the neighborhood growing up were tough on their kids because they had to be so they didn't get caught up in teh streets, and Jackie said if his father didn't discipline him, the neighbors would.....

do you need yet further proof

this was another interview the brothers did in 2012-2013 in Pierce Morgan show.......peep out what the brothers and specifically what Marlon said about their father Joe, he said the exact same thing he's been saying all along.....and then he added another thing, it wasn't their father who geared them towards becoming performers, it was KATHERINE who did, and she had to convince him that they had the potential to become professional performers and that's when he decided to work with them.......it wasn't like hew as driving them as soon as they came out of the womb.........

then later in the interview, peep out what Jermaine said about the type of people that began to infiltrate Michael's life....JErmaine been saying the same thing since 1986......their stance has never changed, but the upcoming fans didn't know about it

you just said that the other brothers were said to have suffered the most abuse, but they always say they were never abused and appreciate now the way Joe raised them coming up

do you want more proof

here's more evidence and insight

fast forwards towards about 3/4 of the way thru and Tito is standing there in their family home in gary and he's telling us how direct their father was and how he rehearsed them but never said anything about being abused...

I got yet more proof at anytime

Latoya knows she fabricated the sexual abuse claims, that went in one ear and out the other because she was trying to attain the the same level of fame as her brother but she toned that down over the years, particulary the mid 90s when her then husband really abused her, and fron that point on since 1995, she has done a complete 180 and has never made any other accusations about being abused by her father

the family dynamic was destroyed by the end of the 80s as opportunists exploited MIchael's success and seperated him from them

those stories about being abused wasn't real......yes Joe was tough, and he may have pushed too hard at times.....no doubt about that and that he made mistakes as all parents do......but I don't think he was abusive as much as he was overprotective....as far as Michael, Janet changing managers during their solo careers, that's a professional choice and they had a right to do that.......but if you got 5 people saying one thing and one person saying something else.....then something ain't right

[Edited 7/30/15 18:57pm]

Scorp said:

MattyJam said:

Scorp said: What would MJ possibly have to gain from lying about Joe's abuse? He certainly didn't need the attention. Sympathy? Well, perhaps, but it'd be a pretty callous thing to do to your own father just for a bit of public sympathy. I'm sorry, I don't buy it. And from what I recall, not many of the other brothers have spoken out one way or the other confirming or denying Michael's accusations against Joe. MJ has openly said in the past that his older brothers had it worse than he did, but Michael was the golden goose, the pressure on MJ to deliver would likely be greater than the other brothers, after all he was the frontman and lead singer. If Jackie missed a dance move chances are nobody would notice. If Michael messes up he is centrestage and it wouldn't go unnoticed. That is the most likely explanation as to why MJ feared Joe to the point of regurgitating in his presence. Unless you're claiming that is a lie as well. If MJ really is the cold, pathological liar you claim he is, why have none of the rest of the family called him out on it, even after he died? There would be no repercussions and surely they would want to restore their father's tarnished public perception?

wait, let's back this up for a second......

that golden goose comment MJ made was during that Oprah interview in 1993.......and he said golden child.......

if you are the "golden child" in the context of who MJ was, and since he was the centerpiece of the family act, if he "ran" it per se.....when u are the golden child, you often get the perks, for what those around you, in relation to you, or in the same situation as you, that person will tend to be showed favor and not be the brunt of what the others are said to experience

and throughout the years, the brothers HAVE countered those claims over the years but the majority of Michael's fans who became fans of his right after he started claiming would not believe them, it's a catch 22, if the brothers all did an interview today and said Joe did not abuse them, the fans and now the majority of the public wouldn't believe them anyway because the narrative has been stretched out for over a quarter century..Jermaine has alluded to it countless times...Marlon too....do you want proof that they have been countering the claims

check out what Marlon says, this was in 2013.....and check out what Marlon said about how the fans and the public crappin all over his family over the years has affected his children over the years...........Marlon even acknowledged that his father was tough and made sure they rehearsed until they got it right......but you can tell by his perspective that he knows the stories about abuse are false.......

do you want more proof, here's another tidbit of insight

fast forward to about 7 minutes in the clip and peep on what Marlon saids, they check out what jackie said and tito said, not just Joe Jackson but all the other fathers in the neighborhood growing up were tough on their kids because they had to be so they didn't get caught up in teh streets, and Jackie said if his father didn't discipline him, the neighbors would.....

do you need yet further proof

this was another interview the brothers did in 2012-2013 in Pierce Morgan show.......peep out what the brothers and specifically what Marlon said about their father Joe, he said the exact same thing he's been saying all along.....and then he added another thing, it wasn't their father who geared them towards becoming performers, it was KATHERINE who did, and she had to convince him that they had the potential to become professional performers and that's when he decided to work with them.......it wasn't like hew as driving them as soon as they came out of the womb.........

then later in the interview, peep out what Jermaine said about the type of people that began to infiltrate Michael's life....JErmaine been saying the same thing since 1986......their stance has never changed, but the upcoming fans didn't know about it

you just said that the other brothers were said to have suffered the most abuse, but they always say they were never abused and appreciate now the way Joe raised them coming up

do you want more proof

here's more evidence and insight

fast forwards towards about 3/4 of the way thru and Tito is standing there in their family home in gary and he's telling us how direct their father was and how he rehearsed them but never said anything about being abused...

I got yet more proof at anytime

Latoya knows she fabricated the sexual abuse claims, that went in one ear and out the other because she was trying to attain the the same level of fame as her brother but she toned that down over the years, particulary the mid 90s when her then husband really abused her, and fron that point on since 1995, she has done a complete 180 and has never made any other accusations about being abused by her father

the family dynamic was destroyed by the end of the 80s as opportunists exploited MIchael's success and seperated him from them

those stories about being abused wasn't real......yes Joe was tough, and he may have pushed too hard at times.....no doubt about that and that he made mistakes as all parents do......but I don't think he was abusive as much as he was overprotective....as far as Michael, Janet changing managers during their solo careers, that's a professional choice and they had a right to do that.......but if you got 5 people saying one thing and one person saying something else.....then something ain't right

[Edited 7/30/15 18:57pm]

I am aware of what the brothers have said over the years, but my point remains not one of them have come out and refuted Michael's claims. If it was really all bs, why wouldn't they come out and directly call Michael a liar, as Rebbie did to LaToya? If you actually read my post, I didn't say the brothers had never commented on Joe's parenting, I said they have never commented on Michael's claims of being abused by him.

In terms of being the golden child, it can work both ways, yes, it could mean that Michael may have received more perks etc, but it also might mean that he had more pressure. I think MJ had some serious pyschological damage from his childhood and that had to come from somewhere.

Just because the brothers haven't come out and said they were abused too doesn't mean it didn''t happen to them as well. Perhaps they don't want to air their dirty laundry in public to avoid further embarassment to the family as a whole? Or maybe they feel enough time has passed and they have forgiven Joe.

It is quite offensive of you to outrightly downplay Michael's claims as if you know for a fact that he was lying. And you still have yet to give me a reason as to why Michael would make it all up? It's understandable with LaToya (although it wouldn't surprise me if she was telling the truth about Joe the first time and lied when she recanted). But if she was lying about the abuse, it's easy to see what her motivations would be (publicity, attention, headlines etc). Michael had an abundance of publicity and headlines.... why lie about his father abusing him? I'm very curious to know WHY you think he would do that.

[Edited 7/31/15 0:01am]

check out what Marlon says, this was in 2013.....and check out what Marlon said about how the fans and the public crappin all over his family over the years has affected his children over the years...........Marlon even acknowledged that his father was tough and made sure they rehearsed until they got it right......but you can tell by his perspective that he knows the stories about abuse are false.......

How did you get that he knows the story of abuse are false?

Marlon seems like a sweet person. I found his speech at Michael's memorial heartbreaking. Marlon was also crying on TV during that Katherine 'kidnapping' fiasco. He seems to be a sensitive person.

Regarding the children getting picked on. Of course people picking on Michael and The Jacksons in the media will effect the kids. Being a MJ fan got you some stick at school in the 2000's. It's horrible but it's not down to Michael saying Joe was abusive as a father. If anything people are compassionate to the Jackson siblings because of the childhoods or working early years they had.

Michael saying he was the golden child was a fact. He was the golden child of the Jackson 5. He was the lead singer, he was the main dancer... he was told to lie about his age to lure in the cute factor. That's why adolesence took it's tole on Michael. It's not Michael being pompus, he knew the act of the Jackson 5 relied in his ability to be the frontman. They all did... they understood the pressue on Michael, his brothers always seemed understanding about that in interviews.

Jackie and Rebbie were the eldest, so it's quite understanding that they never experienced much of the brutality of Joe. And let's face it more and more kids would add pressure to parents, let alone having them in a pop group, working for succcess.

Marlon said he understood why Joe was brutal, he never denied Joe was brutal. Michael always said the same thing, he tried to understand Joe's ways. Michael said he wouldn't change his childhood despite it all. So, what's so different in what Marlon is saying? Michael didn't like to disrespect his family, like I said in my previous post he always added a BUT and a silver lining to the pain he experienced.

Scorp..when you share an hour of videos please say where the important parts are. I want to see your points..I just don't have the time to watch it all.

One of the points that needs to be made is that yes, Joe did hit his kids. Even Katherine admited that in those days most people did. Yes he was strict. The question to me is did it go too far. For MJ, it apparently did. Who feels it knows it and MJ felt it. Does the fact that Joe hit his children make him a bad man...not necessarily. "Spare the rod and spoil the chiild" was repeated in churches for centuries and taken as the way tool to raise good kids.

Also, there seems to be some evidence that some of MJ's reports were exaggerated. MJ told that Shmuel Boteach in a recording that his Dad would "oil him up and hit him with a belt so it sticks". Most of the other Jacksons flat out deny such extremes. Could MJ have been exaggerating? Possibly.

Two years ago, I had a friend from Indianna. She was white and was bused into Gary, Indianna around the late 1960s, right around when the Jacksons were breaking out. She would visit with a black family who had a girl her age, the father was a policeman. She told me she was shocked how strict her father (the policeman) was. The girl could not do anything without her father knowing. She came to realise that was the way of most of the caring parents in the neighbourhood. They literally had to get their children to fear them, more than the other traps which were waiting for them in the streets.

[Edited 7/31/15 18:49pm]