Y'all are complaining daily about Blurred lines. When Thriller didn't even borrow the bassline from Give It 2 Me. It's pretty much the exact same bass line...

Billy Jean is a sped up I Can't Go For That.

The Girl Is Mine has an incredibly similar pattern to ''Rosanna'' by ToTo. Which of course some of the Toto member helped on the album. But not on that track i believe.

I could name a few more examples... but no one called this ''stealing'' but simply borrowing. Why does Quincy get a pass?

Here's the problem with that Blurred Lines lawsuit...

There are many,many,many songs that borrow elements from other songs.Even Prince's classic song "Purple Rain" borrows guitar chords from Journey's "Faithfully".

You could drive yourself crazy listing songs that borrow from other songs there are only so many notes,so many basslines,so many melodies in the world! No artist is 100% original anyway.

Gunsnhalen said:

Why does Quincy get a pass?

.

Because he's from the old school.

.

People like to forget/not acknowledge that musicians and songwriters have taken inspiration from each other since the beginning of time.

.

Perhaps it doesn't suit their personal agenda of not liking a particular person/character, regardless of anything to do with the history of songwriting?

.

I'd be surprised if any of the guys from that generation support the Blurred Lines verdict...they know how inspiration works and they know when a melody is different or the same.

.

nd33 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Why does Quincy get a pass?

.

Because he's from the old school.

.

People like to forget/not acknowledge that musicians and songwriters have taken inspiration from each other since the beginning of time.

.

Perhaps it doesn't suit their personal agenda of not liking a particular person/character, regardless of anything to do with the history of songwriting?

.

I'd be surprised if any of the guys from that generation support the Blurred Lines verdict...they know how inspiration works and they know when a melody is different or the same.

.

Quincy approached Rick at a party and told him that they borrowed the bassline from "Give It To Me,Baby" when they were creating the song "Thriller".Rick was cool with it.They're friends.They are influenced by each other.It's not really "stealing".There's no negativity involed at all.

Hell,when Rick was producing "All Night Long" for the Mary Jane Girls,he was clearly influenced by Keni Burke's "Keep Rising To The Top".Compare those two basslines.But it's OK.

I never noticed the similarity of "Give it to me baby" and "Thriller"....but I did noticed that Rick James borrowed Keni Burke's bassline with "All night Long"..Thats obvious.

Michael also used Carl Carlton's "She's a Bad Mamma Jamma" bassline for "PYT".

and used the bassline from Heatwave's "Boogie Nights" for "Off the Wall"

Both P.Y.T. & Bad Mama Jama had James Ingram involvement

MickyDolenz said:

Both P.Y.T. & Bad Mama Jama had James Ingram involvement

true dat

SoulAlive said:

nd33 said:

.

Because he's from the old school.

.

People like to forget/not acknowledge that musicians and songwriters have taken inspiration from each other since the beginning of time.

.

Perhaps it doesn't suit their personal agenda of not liking a particular person/character, regardless of anything to do with the history of songwriting?

.

I'd be surprised if any of the guys from that generation support the Blurred Lines verdict...they know how inspiration works and they know when a melody is different or the same.

.

Quincy approached Rick at a party and told him that they borrowed the bassline from "Give It To Me,Baby" when they were creating the song "Thriller".Rick was cool with it.They're friends.They are influenced by each other.It's not really "stealing".There's no negativity involed at all.

Hell,when Rick was producing "All Night Long" for the Mary Jane Girls,he was clearly influenced by Keni Burke's "Keep Rising To The Top".Compare those two basslines.But it's OK.

I guess the difference between that particular case versus the Blurred Lines one is that Pharrell tried to perpetuate that he created the base line from scratch as if the entire production was an original piece of work when it wasn't. Quincy never insisted that the baseline was original which does make a difference. He never gloated that he created it from scratch.

mjscarousal said:

SoulAlive said:

Quincy approached Rick at a party and told him that they borrowed the bassline from "Give It To Me,Baby" when they were creating the song "Thriller".Rick was cool with it.They're friends.They are influenced by each other.It's not really "stealing".There's no negativity involed at all.

Hell,when Rick was producing "All Night Long" for the Mary Jane Girls,he was clearly influenced by Keni Burke's "Keep Rising To The Top".Compare those two basslines.But it's OK.

I guess the difference between that particular case versus the Blurred Lines one is that Pharrell tried to perpetuate that he created the base line from scratch as if the entire production was an original piece of work when it wasn't. Quincy never insisted that the baseline was original which does make a difference. He never gloated that he created it from scratch.

Thank. YOU!

mjscarousal said:

SoulAlive said:

Quincy approached Rick at a party and told him that they borrowed the bassline from "Give It To Me,Baby" when they were creating the song "Thriller".Rick was cool with it.They're friends.They are influenced by each other.It's not really "stealing".There's no negativity involed at all.

Hell,when Rick was producing "All Night Long" for the Mary Jane Girls,he was clearly influenced by Keni Burke's "Keep Rising To The Top".Compare those two basslines.But it's OK.

I guess the difference between that particular case versus the Blurred Lines one is that Pharrell tried to perpetuate that he created the base line from scratch as if the entire production was an original piece of work when it wasn't. Quincy never insisted that the baseline was original which does make a difference. He never gloated that he created it from scratch.

True,but you can clearly see a pattern of musicians "borrowing" from each other.Some make a big deal of it,some take it as a form of flattery.

perhaps marvin himself wouldnt have taken it to court if he was alive,as a musician he may have been more understanding than his family , but i think blurred lines does a little more than 'borrow' elements from 'got to give it up', i instantly recognized the similarities soon as i heard it. i even made a thread on this board asking if marvin received credit and alot of folks said they didnt hear it.

lowkey said:

perhaps marvin himself wouldnt have taken it to court if he was alive,as a musician he may have been more understanding than his family , but i think blurred lines does a little more than 'borrow' elements from 'got to give it up', i instantly recognized the similarities soon as i heard it. i even made a thread on this board asking if marvin received credit and alot of folks said they didnt hear it.

It was Thicke and Williams who filed with the court first. They tried to block the Gaye family from filing a future suit against them. It obviously backfired.

I've heard a few people say that "Billie Jean" borrows from Steely Dan's 1971 hit "Do It Again" See how crazy this is? People hearing different things and different influences.In 1983,someone even mixed the two songs together and released it to R&B radio.

Gunsnhalen said:

Billy Jean is a sped up I Can't Go For That.

babynoz said:

mjscarousal said:

I guess the difference between that particular case versus the Blurred Lines one is that Pharrell tried to perpetuate that he created the base line from scratch as if the entire production was an original piece of work when it wasn't. Quincy never insisted that the baseline was original which does make a difference. He never gloated that he created it from scratch.

Thank. YOU!

How is that supposed to be somehow "better" than what Pharrell did?

Michael, Quincy and their team took basslines note for note without crediting the originators when Pharrell just did a bassline that reminded of something else without being the same at all. With what type of "logic" is the first one more excusable?

Suing on basslines is ridiculous in any case, unless there's really a very recognizeable groove going in. Most basslines are made of notes of 2-4 different pitches. One of them is pretty much always the root note and it occurs on the 1. What usually occurs on the 3 is another strong note. So there's hardly that much room for "innovation" there. The rhythm parts on "Got To Give It Up" are plain trivial and I feel embarrassed for those that are convinced there's something really unique to that recording going on. The only thing that makes it stand out from some other tracks is that the bass is done with an electric piano. That wasn't so uncommon back in the day either, but having an electric piano do the bass on a contemporary hit like "Blurred Lines" just made it stick out.

I heard sometime ago that also the the keyboard intro from Thriller was "inspired" by the keyboard intro from 1999, that Michael came in the studio with a copy of the Prince album and said "I want an opening riff like that" is that true?

[Edited 3/23/15 1:17am]

Besides the Rick James one Quincy borrowed and has publicly admitted to borrowing what "multiple" basslines did he "steal" on Thriller?

mjscarousal said:

SoulAlive said:

Quincy approached Rick at a party and told him that they borrowed the bassline from "Give It To Me,Baby" when they were creating the song "Thriller".Rick was cool with it.They're friends.They are influenced by each other.It's not really "stealing".There's no negativity involed at all.

Hell,when Rick was producing "All Night Long" for the Mary Jane Girls,he was clearly influenced by Keni Burke's "Keep Rising To The Top".Compare those two basslines.But it's OK.

I guess the difference between that particular case versus the Blurred Lines one is that Pharrell tried to perpetuate that he created the base line from scratch as if the entire production was an original piece of work when it wasn't. Quincy never insisted that the baseline was original which does make a difference. He never gloated that he created it from scratch.

.

I thought that Pharrell had stated the Marvin Gaye influence on Blurred Lines from the very start and that is what helped get them in trouble?

.

PS the two basslines are nothing alike (BL/GTGIU), the MJ example has much more in common...

novabrkr said:

babynoz said:

Thank. YOU!

How is that supposed to be somehow "better" than what Pharrell did?

Michael, Quincy and their team took basslines note for note without crediting the originators when Pharrell just did a bassline that reminded of something else without being the same at all. With what type of "logic" is the first one more excusable?

Suing on basslines is ridiculous in any case, unless there's really a very recognizeable groove going in. Most basslines are made of notes of 2-4 different pitches. One of them is pretty much always the root note and it occurs on the 1. What usually occurs on the 3 is another strong note. So there's hardly that much room for "innovation" there. The rhythm parts on "Got To Give It Up" are plain trivial and I feel embarrassed for those that are convinced there's something really unique to that recording going on. The only thing that makes it stand out from some other tracks is that the bass is done with an electric piano. That wasn't so uncommon back in the day either, but having an electric piano do the bass on a contemporary hit like "Blurred Lines" just made it stick out.

.

You got it.

mjscarousal said:

Besides the Rick James one Quincy borrowed and has publicly admitted to borrowing what "multiple" basslines did he "steal" on Thriller?

As brought up earlier, there are 2-3 songs on the album that have borrowed basslines. "Thriller" comes from Rick James as already known. The bassline of Billie Jean obviously comes from the Halls & Oates one, as Michael himself acknowledged that. Then there's the "P.Y.T" one, which is more of an open question and I won't myself comment on.

Using that " " emoticon is pretty childish. I could just as well use it for your comments as you've already stated that using other people's basslines without crediting them and asking permission for using them on your records is "ok", but coming up with a bassline that just has a similar "feel", but isn't the same at all, is somehow supposed to be wrong.

bigboy784 said:

I never noticed the similarity of "Give it to me baby" and "Thriller"....but I did noticed that Rick James borrowed Keni Burke's bassline with "All night Long"..Thats obvious.

Michael also used Carl Carlton's "She's a Bad Mamma Jamma" bassline for "PYT".

and used the bassline from Heatwave's "Boogie Nights" for "Off the Wall"

That the Heatwave Boogie Nights bassline is similar to the bassline for Off the wall may have something to do with the fact that boths songs were written by the same guy, Rod Temperton

novabrkr said:

babynoz said:

Thank. YOU!

How is that supposed to be somehow "better" than what Pharrell did?

Michael, Quincy and their team took basslines note for note without crediting the originators when Pharrell just did a bassline that reminded of something else without being the same at all. With what type of "logic" is the first one more excusable?

Suing on basslines is ridiculous in any case, unless there's really a very recognizeable groove going in. Most basslines are made of notes of 2-4 different pitches. One of them is pretty much always the root note and it occurs on the 1. What usually occurs on the 3 is another strong note. So there's hardly that much room for "innovation" there. The rhythm parts on "Got To Give It Up" are plain trivial and I feel embarrassed for those that are convinced there's something really unique to that recording going on. The only thing that makes it stand out from some other tracks is that the bass is done with an electric piano. That wasn't so uncommon back in the day either, but having an electric piano do the bass on a contemporary hit like "Blurred Lines" just made it stick out.

Not one single sentence you wrote addresses what mjc actually posted.

Y'all need to get over it already. We're not gonna re-hash the blurred lines verdict in every thread no matter how many condesending comments you make.

babynoz said:

babynoz said:

novabrkr said:

How is that supposed to be somehow "better" than what Pharrell did?

Michael, Quincy and their team took basslines note for note without crediting the originators when Pharrell just did a bassline that reminded of something else without being the same at all. With what type of "logic" is the first one more excusable?

Suing on basslines is ridiculous in any case, unless there's really a very recognizeable groove going in. Most basslines are made of notes of 2-4 different pitches. One of them is pretty much always the root note and it occurs on the 1. What usually occurs on the 3 is another strong note. So there's hardly that much room for "innovation" there. The rhythm parts on "Got To Give It Up" are plain trivial and I feel embarrassed for those that are convinced there's something really unique to that recording going on. The only thing that makes it stand out from some other tracks is that the bass is done with an electric piano. That wasn't so uncommon back in the day either, but having an electric piano do the bass on a contemporary hit like "Blurred Lines" just made it stick out.

Not one single sentence you wrote addresses what mjc actually posted.

Y'all need to get over it already. We're not gonna re-hash the blurred lines verdict in every thread no matter how many condesending comments you make.

I agree I think I will just leave it at that because I see where this thread is going.

no need to try and stain Thriller just because Robin Thicke and Pharrell hijacked Marvin Gaye......lollllll

Robin Thicke's very first "hit" was a sample of Walter Murphy's rendition of Beethoven's 5th Symphony

^^Mike did get sued by Manu Dibango for Soul Makossa/Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'. Manu still was never actually added to the credits like Mick Jagger & Keith Richards on George Michael's song Waiting For That Day after they sued.

One of the most clear and concise explanatios of what Mr. Williams attempted to do, claim music writted by another artist as his own.

Neal's a.k.a theAudience.

Reply #440 posted 09/15/13 5:03pm

An Open Letter To Pharrell Williams (Blurred Lines Vol. 3)
Posted on September 13, 2013 by nicholaspayton

Well, it’s about time Pharrell Williams has decided to speak on the issue. He was eerily quiet about it all until just recently. And now that’s he’s opened his mouth, I can throw him some of the shade I was generously giving Robin Thicke.

“I’m a huge fan of Marvin Gaye. He is a genius. He is the patriarch.”

— Pharrell Williams

Really, Pharrell? Since when did it become okay to preemptively sue our patriarchal geniuses of Black music after you knowingly stole their songs?

… Oh, never mind. I remember: Hiphop.

“If you read music, all you have to do is read the sheet music. It’s completely different.”

— Pharrell Williams

I read music, do you? And what sheet music are you talking about? From some wack publishing company that did a transcription of Marvin Gaye’s work? Since when do people learn funk tunes from sheet music? Many funk legends can’t even read music. Marvin Gaye couldn’t read or write music, yet he wrote the tune. So what does that say, really?

Pharrell goes on to say:

“[Gaye] is the king of all kings, so let’s be clear about that. And we take our hats off to him, but anybody that plays music and reads music, just simply go to the piano and play the two. One’s minor and one’s major. And not even in the same key.”

Okay, Mr. Williams. You are wrong. Both of the tunes are actually in Major. The difference is that your song is just a major triad “G-B-D over G” and Gaye’s tune is in Dominant Major which means he flatted the 7th degree of the scale (G-C#-E over A), which would explain why y’all’s song sounds like Oktoberfest and Marvin’s song sounds like the Blues. And Marvin’s tune doesn’t go into minor until the bridge. If that monotonous piece of trash you call a song had a bridge, you probably would have stolen it, too. And just because you and Thicke lowered the key a whole step from A to G and removed the Blues doesn’t mean you didn’t steal it. Thicke has already admitted you did.

“Pharrell and I were in the studio and I told him that one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gaye’s ‘Got to Give It Up.’ I was like, ‘Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove.’ Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it.”

— Robin Thicke

So, how you have the hubris to pretend you didn’t steal it is jive.

Let me just explain a couple things to you:

1.) Sheet music may be the legal reference for copyright in the court systems of America, but it has never been the be-all end-all for Black music. A lot of our music has never been written down, it’s an oral and aural tradition passed down generation-to-generation from master to student.

2.) Many of our Kings of Kings could not read music themselves, either because they were blind or just never learned to read. Reading music is certainly helpful, but it isn’t necessary to do so to be a great musician. All that is required is that you have ears. And anyone with ears can hear that you clearly stole this song.

And to those of you who say I know nothing about Hiphop, if “Blurred Lines” is Hiphop, I don’t want to know anything about it. So let me officially go on record now and say that I hate Hiphop. There are certain artists who claim Hiphop that I dig, but Hiphop as a whole is wack. It’s a parasitic culture that preys on real musicians for its livelihood. I may not know anything about Hiphop, but I don’t have to. Without real artists and musicians like me, you’d have nothing to steal. I know enough about it all to know that.

One of the world’s most renowned producers can’t tell the difference between a minor chord and a Dominant 7th, something that you learn the first week in music theory class. It’s like a doctor not knowing the difference between your ears and your eyes. A musical illiterate has the nerve to tell people they would understand he didn’t steal Marvin’s song if they read music. And we wonder why today’s music is shit?

http://nicholaspayton.wor...nes-vol-3/

Its called subterfugde...

Mr. William attempted to take credit for something he didn't write. Period. The End.

I'll repeat, no one is saying you can't use another songwriter's music, but you have to pay for its use. Why is this a hard concept to understand? It over, those days of taking folks shit and claiming as your own...OVER. Nobody gives a damn what happened in the past 10, 20, 30 years ago, its a new day. There was a lawsuit, somebody lost.... guess who?

==========================================

[Edited 3/23/15 9:41am]

TD3 said:

I'll repeat, no one is saying you can't use another songwriter's music, but you have to pay for its use.

.

History says no you don't, that's what this whole thread is about LOL.

.

TD3 said:

One of the most clear and concise explanatios of what Mr. Williams attempted to do, claim music writted by another artist as his own.

Neal's a.k.a theAudience.

Reply #440 posted 09/15/13 5:03pm

An Open Letter To Pharrell Williams (Blurred Lines Vol. 3)
Posted on September 13, 2013 by nicholaspayton

Well, it’s about time Pharrell Williams has decided to speak on the issue. He was eerily quiet about it all until just recently. And now that’s he’s opened his mouth, I can throw him some of the shade I was generously giving Robin Thicke.

“I’m a huge fan of Marvin Gaye. He is a genius. He is the patriarch.”

— Pharrell Williams

Really, Pharrell? Since when did it become okay to preemptively sue our patriarchal geniuses of Black music after you knowingly stole their songs?

… Oh, never mind. I remember: Hiphop.

“If you read music, all you have to do is read the sheet music. It’s completely different.”

— Pharrell Williams

I read music, do you? And what sheet music are you talking about? From some wack publishing company that did a transcription of Marvin Gaye’s work? Since when do people learn funk tunes from sheet music? Many funk legends can’t even read music. Marvin Gaye couldn’t read or write music, yet he wrote the tune. So what does that say, really?

Pharrell goes on to say:

“[Gaye] is the king of all kings, so let’s be clear about that. And we take our hats off to him, but anybody that plays music and reads music, just simply go to the piano and play the two. One’s minor and one’s major. And not even in the same key.”

Okay, Mr. Williams. You are wrong. Both of the tunes are actually in Major. The difference is that your song is just a major triad “G-B-D over G” and Gaye’s tune is in Dominant Major which means he flatted the 7th degree of the scale (G-C#-E over A), which would explain why y’all’s song sounds like Oktoberfest and Marvin’s song sounds like the Blues. And Marvin’s tune doesn’t go into minor until the bridge. If that monotonous piece of trash you call a song had a bridge, you probably would have stolen it, too. And just because you and Thicke lowered the key a whole step from A to G and removed the Blues doesn’t mean you didn’t steal it. Thicke has already admitted you did.

“Pharrell and I were in the studio and I told him that one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gaye’s ‘Got to Give It Up.’ I was like, ‘Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove.’ Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it.”

— Robin Thicke

So, how you have the hubris to pretend you didn’t steal it is jive.

Let me just explain a couple things to you:

1.) Sheet music may be the legal reference for copyright in the court systems of America, but it has never been the be-all end-all for Black music. A lot of our music has never been written down, it’s an oral and aural tradition passed down generation-to-generation from master to student.

2.) Many of our Kings of Kings could not read music themselves, either because they were blind or just never learned to read. Reading music is certainly helpful, but it isn’t necessary to do so to be a great musician. All that is required is that you have ears. And anyone with ears can hear that you clearly stole this song.

And to those of you who say I know nothing about Hiphop, if “Blurred Lines” is Hiphop, I don’t want to know anything about it. So let me officially go on record now and say that I hate Hiphop. There are certain artists who claim Hiphop that I dig, but Hiphop as a whole is wack. It’s a parasitic culture that preys on real musicians for its livelihood. I may not know anything about Hiphop, but I don’t have to. Without real artists and musicians like me, you’d have nothing to steal. I know enough about it all to know that.

One of the world’s most renowned producers can’t tell the difference between a minor chord and a Dominant 7th, something that you learn the first week in music theory class. It’s like a doctor not knowing the difference between your ears and your eyes. A musical illiterate has the nerve to tell people they would understand he didn’t steal Marvin’s song if they read music. And we wonder why today’s music is shit?

http://nicholaspayton.wor...nes-vol-3

.

That old Nicholas Payton letter is the definition of talking loud and saying nothing.

.

This article actually goes to the effort of examining the most similar parts of the songs.

http://joebennett.net/201...rvin-gaye/

MickyDolenz said:

^^Mike did get sued by Manu Dibango for Soul Makossa/Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'. Manu still was never actually added to the credits like Mick Jagger & Keith Richards on George Michael's song Waiting For That Day after they sued.

I was going to say, "Soul Makossa"&"Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" was the most obvious rip-off that actually landed in court.