So just recently a private settlement was reached concerning similarities in Sam Smith's "Stay With Me" and Tom Petty's "I Won't Back Down". Now I'm rarely a fan of these kind of "suits' or settlements going as far back as the "Ghostbusters" Huey Lewis travesty but what is your take on this? Do they sounds similar enough to give Petty co-writing credits on Smith's song?

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as my grammy award winning friend pointed out to me....

The melody is exactly the same in that hook. I think Sam settled b-cuz he knew he was caught. "Stay" sounds like a lot of songs but he ripped that melody. If you listen to the beginning of Tom Petty where he sings "stand my ground" & sing "Stay with me" hook, it matches perfectly. the phrasing & everything .

Yes they do...

I've blocked most things Google on this computer, but did you post the mash-up video of he songs being played simultaneously? Way too much of a coincidence.... Those days of lefting or borrowing other folks marerial are prettymuch over. Here's a link to the mash-up.

http://newsfeed.gawker.co...1682037231

But people routinely do mash-ups of similar songs all the time. Tom Joyner does them every Friday if I'm not mistaken. Songs sound the same.

Even before I heard about the lawsuit, I was singing "Won't Back Down" to the chorus of "Stay with Me". I think it is obvious but also think it was accidental...just like "Cream" and "Bang a Gong".

CynicKill said:

But people routinely do mash-ups of similar songs all the time. Tom Joyner does them every Friday if I'm not mistaken. Songs sound the same.

Having heard Mr. Joyners "mashup", they mix lyrics of one artist with music of another artist. This mashup of the music by Petty matches Mr.Smith music verbatim.

GottaLetitgo said:

Even before I heard about the lawsuit, I was singing "Won't Back Down" to the chorus of "Stay with Me". I think it is obvious but also think it was accidental...just like "Cream" and "Bang a Gong".

Agree 100%.

It's obviously the same motif, but... It's just three notes. Those same three notes get transposed for the second line.

Well, okay, there are five notes, but the first two just set up a tension that is resolved with the three last ones.

Someone wrote an article on it and pointed out how ridiculous it is if you can have a copyright on such rudimentary musical elements and I agree. I think the writer was even a Petty fan, so I really think there is a problem with these type of scenarios. I'm waiting for the day bass players start suing each other for having similar bass lines.

[Edited 2/1/15 20:02pm]

Why'd Tom Petty go after Sam Smith when he gave the Red Hot Chili Peppers a pass for "Dani California" in 2006?

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.c...z3QZMQjwqt

I think it's because Smith's team decided to give the credit to avoid a lawsuit first. Plus it might not be his call in this case. It might be his publishers.

sounds more like rick astley

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novabrkr said:

I'm waiting for the day bass players start suing each other for having similar bass lines.

Cinny said:

novabrkr said:

I'm waiting for the day bass players start suing each other for having similar bass lines.

I always get a laugh out of that clip.

I thought the melody sounded very similar. When that male Adele started gettng popular but it seems like everyone is satisfied with it. Tom Petty's songs have been rippe doff many times. And he's been pretty chill about it really. But now Sam Smith fans won't stfu about this.

Gunsnhalen said:

I thought the melody sounded very similar. When that male Adele started gettng popular but it seems like everyone is satisfied with it. Tom Petty's songs have been rippe doff many times. And he's been pretty chill about it really. But now Sam Smith fans won't stfu about this.

I just read an article that says that Petty gets "ripped" so much because he write simple songs. Basic cords. I hear the similarity, but would not say it's worth giving up money for it.

Tough call but like all these things, laywers only go after songs once they make alot of money, and probably acting on behalf of their client without even them knowing until it too late LOL. Meaning I wonder if Tom Petty even knows about this LOL. But in this case, settling out of court does look guilty but we don't know how much for so........

Off point but I remember when Stings manager demanded a co-writing credit for Dire Strait's hit "Money for nothing". Talk about irony LOL, Sting only sang "I want my MTV", but that one phrase sounded like "Don't stand so close to me", so boom!, Sting get's credit on a song he guested on as a favour to the writer of the song Mark Knopfler.. Did Sting deliberately copy his phrasing from "Don't stan so close to me" to give himself credit LOL. Of course not but still....

Crazy...

Heres one of the greatest pop song of the 90's. Now Richard Ashcroft, who wrote the lyrics did need to give credit, but 100% of it? Hell no....

On a sidenote, Iam glad Sam and his team are not going the Michael Bolton/Isley Brothers route LOL. I still think that was abit unfair to Bolton but there you go LOL.

After listening to this video. Yeah I think the lawsuit was the right call. Even though I didn't like it that George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord" was sued for "He's So Fine".

I've read a lot about this and one particular article, that was actually very complicated and full of "music speak", also gave the most simple explanation I've come across. Sing these two lines from each song...

Tom Petty

Well I won't back down

No I won't back down

or

No I'll stand my ground

Won't be turned around

Sam Smith

Won't you stay with me

Cause you're all I need

In a nutshell, that's why Tom Petty and Jeff Lyne now have a 12.5% writing credit on a Sam Smith song. Keep in mind, Smith and his writing partners settled this out of court, so they clearly understood the resemblance themselves.

novabrkr said:

Cinny said:

I always get a laugh out of that clip.

Grand!

Cinny said:

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This is damn near note for note in 6 of the 8 bars. Totally justified here...unlike that Blurred Lines/GTGIU controversy that everyone here was arguing about for 6 months, which had no melodic similarity whatsoever.

nd33 said:

Cinny said:

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This is damn near note for note in 6 of the 8 bars. Totally justified here...unlike that Blurred Lines/GTGIU controversy that everyone here was arguing about for 6 months, which had no melodic similarity whatsoever.

Exactly. I thought every time "Stay With Me" was announced as a nominee on the Grammys last Sunday, Tom Petty would be an official songwriter.

Tom Petty!

Cinny said:

nd33 said:

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This is damn near note for note in 6 of the 8 bars. Totally justified here...unlike that Blurred Lines/GTGIU controversy that everyone here was arguing about for 6 months, which had no melodic similarity whatsoever.

Exactly. I thought every time "Stay With Me" was announced as a nominee on the Grammys last Sunday, Tom Petty would be an official songwriter.

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Damn right he shoulda been named!

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So, I'm not really a Tom Petty fan (although I like him and "I won't back down"), but I find it very hard to believe that Sam Smith, a musician and songwriter himself, would have never heard "I won't back down before" as he claims would be the norm for a 22 year old such as himself. I guess you HAVE to say that though if you're Sam, because otherwise you're likely to get yourself in more trouble.

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When I was a kid and a teenager in the 80's/90's, I heard ALL the hits from the late 50's onwards, basically the modern era from rock'n'roll on. If there are adults involved in your upbringing, it was impossible to avoid.

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Also, I know the process of getting a song from it's initial idea, right through to an actual release on a record label. There are dozens of people that would have worked on it or heard it before it got released. That is usually the time where someone would go "oh, actually this melody is exactly like 'Won't back down' by Tom Petty, you'd better change it otherwise we need to negotiate clearance to release it".

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Eh.. It's stripped-down, and in slightly different tone, but..

the phrashing patterns of the chorus got him...

[Edited 2/10/15 18:46pm]

Linn4days said:

Eh.. It's stripped-down, and in slightly different tone, but..

the phrashing patterns of the chorus got him...

[Edited 2/10/15 18:46pm]

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Stripped down production is completely irrelevant. This case is the opposite of the Blurred Lines one, where the production itself was the only thing of similarity. Copyright is not extended to production though. And that's a good thing because if it was, we'd only have one band that ever played disco music and so on...

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Pick up an acoustic guitar and sing the chorus of both these songs back to back in the same key. I rest my case.

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The melody (or the lyrics) is the heart of any song with regards to copyright protection.

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This is why Sam Smith immediately resolved this with Tom Petty in an instant (as there was no question of the melodic similarity), yet the Blurred Lines case is still being attempted by the Gaye side, two years after the song came out (no melodic similarity).

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nd33 said:

Linn4days said:

Eh.. It's stripped-down, and in slightly different tone, but..

the phrashing patterns of the chorus got him...

[Edited 2/10/15 18:46pm]

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Stripped down production is completely irrelevant. This case is the opposite of the Blurred Lines one, where the production itself was the only thing of similarity. Copyright is not extended to production though. And that's a good thing because if it was, we'd only have one band that ever played disco music and so on...

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Pick up an acoustic guitar and sing the chorus of both these songs back to back in the same key. I rest my case.

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The melody (or the lyrics) is the heart of any song with regards to copyright protection.

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This is why Sam Smith immediately resolved this with Tom Petty in an instant (as there was no question of the melodic similarity), yet the Blurred Lines case is still being attempted by the Gaye side, two years after the song came out (no melodic similarity).

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Notes against chords. That's why I posted sheet music!

thesexofit said:

Heres one of the greatest pop song of the 90's. Now Richard Ashcroft, who wrote the lyrics did need to give credit, but 100% of it? Hell no....

The Bittersweet Symphony thing is a horrible misjustice. Even if Ashcroft had taken the whole original musical recording (and he took only seconds of it--though admittedly he loops it for the entire song), melody and lyrics are still his. And it's a good song even without the sampled bit--there are performances online if you want to hear it. Maybe wouldn't have been as big a record, but a very respectable song nonetheless.