Stymie said:

babynoz said:

I guess they gonna hate me then,

Apparently attaching a feminist label means it's okay to be looking up somebody's ass crack every five minutes.

Melissa Harris Perry tried to push this BS when Bey released her last album. I posted a message to her telling her she should be ashamed of herself for touting such nonsense as a woman who has a daughter.

If Bey is a good person who gives to charity that's quite enough.

Her being married to a man who has zero problem referring to any female as a bitch tells me all I need to know.

I'm out for real now.

Don't get me started...

babynoz said:

lrn36 said:

So does that apply to feminist icon Josephine Baker as well?

You still don't get it. NOBODY HAS A PROBLEM WITH NUDITY, SHEESH!

I recall her being a civil rights activist but you'll have to show me where she called herself a feminist...WE ARE DISCUSSING FEMINISM.

While your're at it, please explain why and how there is anything whatsoever feminist about the photos you keep posting...I'll wait.

I posted those pics to show hypocrisy. There is nothing wrong with women being overtly sexual and being a feminist. If feminism is about women making the choices they want to make about their life, then occasionlly they will make choices you don't agree with. But does that mean you get to take away their right to call themselves feminists? If so, then how is that different from patriarchy controlling or judging women's choices.

lrn36 said:

babynoz said:

You still don't get it. NOBODY HAS A PROBLEM WITH NUDITY, SHEESH!

I recall her being a civil rights activist but you'll have to show me where she called herself a feminist...WE ARE DISCUSSING FEMINISM.

While your're at it, please explain why and how there is anything whatsoever feminist about the photos you keep posting...I'll wait.

I posted those pics to show hypocrisy. There is nothing wrong with women being overtly sexual and being a feminist. If feminism is about women making the choices they want to make about their life, then occasionlly they will make choices you don't agree with. But does that mean you get to take away their right to call themselves feminists? If so, then how is that different from patriarchy controlling or judging women's choices.

You don't listen well, do you? Not a single individual on this thread is being hypocritical for calling bs on faux feminism. We have a right not to fall for the PR.

Bey is an entertainer....they sell images....they are dream merchants. Stop obsessing over sexuality.

Why can't a feminist hold a positive, healthy view of sex...fully enjoying sex while also being adamantly opposed to this sexual exploitation and commodification of women's bodies for profit????? I can!!!

It boils down to this IMO...read "Female Chauvinist Pigs." The point of the book not being what you'd think...it's about this "raunch culture" mainly promoted by men that is shoved down our throats while pseudo-feminists like Bouncy try to justify it as a form liberation and empowerment. It's hilarious to me that she is falsely promoting "feminism" to young impressionable minds while participating in HER VERY OWN sexual exploitation AND in the exploitation of her FEMALE backup dancers (of which she stated THAT having an all female band/dancers makes her a feminist too). I just can't roll my eyes enough for this hypocrisy.

[Edited 10/12/14 18:29pm]

babynoz said:

lrn36 said:

I posted those pics to show hypocrisy. There is nothing wrong with women being overtly sexual and being a feminist. If feminism is about women making the choices they want to make about their life, then occasionlly they will make choices you don't agree with. But does that mean you get to take away their right to call themselves feminists? If so, then how is that different from patriarchy controlling or judging women's choices.

You don't listen well, do you? Not a single individual on this thread is being hypocritical for calling bs on faux feminism. We have a right not to fall for the PR.

Bey is an entertainer....they sell images....they are dream merchants. Stop obsessing over sexuality.

How am I obsessing over sexuality when several posters brought up Beyonce and other female artists being half naked? All artists sell an image including Annie Lennox. That picture of Janelle I posted was taken at a private party. That's how she dresses in real life. Her image is as fake as anyone elses. There is nothing wrong with that. Just because Beyonce proclaims herself a feminist in her work doesn't mean she is or isnt one in her private life.

lrn36 said:

babynoz said:

You don't listen well, do you? Not a single individual on this thread is being hypocritical for calling bs on faux feminism. We have a right not to fall for the PR.

Bey is an entertainer....they sell images....they are dream merchants. Stop obsessing over sexuality.

How am I obsessing over sexuality when several posters brought up Beyonce and other female artists being half naked? All artists sell an image including Annie Lennox. That picture of Janelle I posted was taken at a private party. That's how she dresses in real life. Her image is as fake as anyone elses. There is nothing wrong with that. Just because Beyonce proclaims herself a feminist in her work doesn't mean she is or isnt one in her private life.

Please see post above by Noimageatall if you still don't get it.

noimageatall said:

Why can't a feminist hold a positive, healthy view of sex...fully enjoying sex while also being adamantly opposed to this sexual exploitation and commodification of women's bodies for profit????? I can!!!

It boils down to this IMO...read "Female Chauvinist Pigs." The point of the book not being what you'd think...it's about this "raunch culture" mainly promoted by men that is shoved down our throats while pseudo-feminists like Bouncy try to justify it as a form liberation and empowerment. It's hilarious to me that she is falsely promoting "feminism" to young impressionable minds while participating in HER VERY OWN sexual exploitation AND in the exploitation of her FEMALE backup dancers (of which she stated THAT having an all female band/dancers makes her a feminist too). I just can't roll my eyes enough for this hypocrisy.

[Edited 10/12/14 18:29pm]

She's trying to outdo Rhianna, that's all

babynoz said:

noimageatall said:

Why can't a feminist hold a positive, healthy view of sex...fully enjoying sex while also being adamantly opposed to this sexual exploitation and commodification of women's bodies for profit????? I can!!!

It boils down to this IMO...read "Female Chauvinist Pigs." The point of the book not being what you'd think...it's about this "raunch culture" mainly promoted by men that is shoved down our throats while pseudo-feminists like Bouncy try to justify it as a form liberation and empowerment. It's hilarious to me that she is falsely promoting "feminism" to young impressionable minds while participating in HER VERY OWN sexual exploitation AND in the exploitation of her FEMALE backup dancers (of which she stated THAT having an all female band/dancers makes her a feminist too). I just can't roll my eyes enough for this hypocrisy.

[Edited 10/12/14 18:29pm]

I swear I don't get how people don't see this.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

She's trying to outdo Rhianna, that's all

it's like a contest to see who can wear the least amount of clothes onstage

noimageatall said:

Why can't a feminist hold a positive, healthy view of sex...fully enjoying sex while also being adamantly opposed to this sexual exploitation and commodification of women's bodies for profit????? I can!!!

It boils down to this IMO...read "Female Chauvinist Pigs." The point of the book not being what you'd think...it's about this "raunch culture" mainly promoted by men that is shoved down our throats while pseudo-feminists like Bouncy try to justify it as a form liberation and empowerment. It's hilarious to me that she is falsely promoting "feminism" to young impressionable minds while participating in HER VERY OWN sexual exploitation AND in the exploitation of her FEMALE backup dancers (of which she stated THAT having an all female band/dancers makes her a feminist too). I just can't roll my eyes enough for this hypocrisy.

The strangest part was that her 2 year old was watching this. 'Yes little Blue, Mommy busting it wide open for everyone to see where you fell out of is feminism!" Maybe it's good she wasn't old enough to be embarrassed over it because really who wants to see their mom doing that

Not going to speak about all female artists, but imo there's nothing un-feminist about Beyonce being extremely sexual. Objectification? In that case, plenty of stars of both genders are 'objectified'. Adam Levine, Zac Efron, I could go on and on are constantly shirtless and exploiting their sexiness for girls to enjoy and they use it to further their profile. So if Beyonce does the same there's no problem about it. Sexuality is A HUGE part of human life... humans are visual creatures. If they see something they like, they're more likely to enjoy the music.

And this Annie Lennox chick should fuck off. If feminism is about women being in charge of their lives (and Beyonce obviously seems to be), who is she to argue against 'how' Beyonce practices feminism? JMHO..

ENTERTAINMENT is exactly its name.... entertainment. sex is entertaining. humans girls boys and everyone in between like sex.

This coming from a person who despises any song with Beyonce on it.

lrn36 said:

babynoz said:

You still don't get it. NOBODY HAS A PROBLEM WITH NUDITY, SHEESH!

I recall her being a civil rights activist but you'll have to show me where she called herself a feminist...WE ARE DISCUSSING FEMINISM.

While your're at it, please explain why and how there is anything whatsoever feminist about the photos you keep posting...I'll wait.

I posted those pics to show hypocrisy. There is nothing wrong with women being overtly sexual and being a feminist. If feminism is about women making the choices they want to make about their life, then occasionlly they will make choices you don't agree with. But does that mean you get to take away their right to call themselves feminists? If so, then how is that different from patriarchy controlling or judging women's choices.

Just because a woman proclaims herself a feminist doesn't mean her choices can't ever be critiqued. "Choice feminism" ain't going to get women anywhere either, especially if their choices constantly fall in line with the patriarchy. Yes you can be sexual and a feminist, but I find it hard to believe that all these new-feminist pop stars have "chosen" to have a sexualized image, and therein lies my problem with it.

Janelle Monae has an image too, yes, but you know she chose to do that. Why? Because no record label is going to encourage an attractive female artist like her to just wear suits when they can make more money off her skin. People talk about how Bey, Nicki, Rihannaa and Miley own their sexuality, but I feel like Janelle OWNS her sexuality because she's not allowing anyone to exploit it. Not record labels and not us. She may wear dresses and skirts in her private life but she's not letting anyone tell her want to wear as an artist. Plus she's still sexy in a suit.

Beyonce's been doing this ever since she came out when she wasn't even in control of her career. She's just gotten more explicit and wants to call it feminism, lol. In one interview I remember her mother saying how sex sells and just allowing her then teenaged daughter to go along with it. She's used to being exploited- oh I mean--owning her sexuality

[Edited 10/14/14 0:00am]

CharismaDove said:

Not going to speak about all female artists, but imo there's nothing un-feminist about Beyonce being extremely sexual. Objectification? In that case, plenty of stars of both genders are 'objectified'. Adam Levine, Zac Efron, I could go on and on are constantly shirtless and exploiting their sexiness for girls to enjoy and they use it to further their profile. So if Beyonce does the same there's no problem about it. Sexuality is A HUGE part of human life... humans are visual creatures. If they see something they like, they're more likely to enjoy the music.

And this Annie Lennox chick should fuck off. If feminism is about women being in charge of their lives (and Beyonce obviously seems to be), who is she to argue against 'how' Beyonce practices feminism? JMHO..

There IS a difference and I do not understand why intelligent people cannot see this. There is a HUGE difference between female and male objectification whether you think there is or not.

Objectification of women supports a patriarchal view by society that women are actually nothing more than sex objects. This generally does not apply to men.

Women do not sexually objectify men generally as a group. (societal norm). When women (and gay men) objectify men, it doesn't lower the man's status. Men have the means to systematically hold back women through objectification. In pornography, modeling, and the music industry, women who shake their ass or use their ass for the sole purpose of shaking ass (Bey, Miley, Nicki, etc) lose respect and status. When LL was arrested for humping a couch on tour, (and I was there to see it) everyone was angry with the police (not him) for daring to interrupt his groove.

objectify • degrade to the status of a mere object: a deeply sexist attitude that objectifies women.

Case in point...Magic Mike. Male stars stripping basically. The only thing that movie did was boost those mens’ careers. Do you remember the backlash Demi Moore got for her role in Striptease?

In a perfect world, we would not need feminism. Everyone would have equal rights and equally respect and appreciate each other. There would be no ‘rape culture’ and the glass ceiling. However, that is not the case and I doubt it will be for some time. Until then we need women who are strong role models without thrusting crotch, showing vulva, and telling our pre-teens that this is how you keep a man.

starbelly said:

lrn36 said:

I posted those pics to show hypocrisy. There is nothing wrong with women being overtly sexual and being a feminist. If feminism is about women making the choices they want to make about their life, then occasionlly they will make choices you don't agree with. But does that mean you get to take away their right to call themselves feminists? If so, then how is that different from patriarchy controlling or judging women's choices.

Just because a woman proclaims herself a feminist doesn't mean her choices can't ever be critiqued. "Choice feminism" ain't going to get women anywhere either, especially if their choices constantly fall in line with the patriarchy. Yes you can be sexual and a feminist, but I find it hard to believe that all these new-feminist pop stars have "chosen" to have a sexualized image, and therein lies my problem with it.

Janelle Monae has an image too, yes, but you know she chose to do that. Why? Because no record label is going to encourage an attractive female artist like her to just wear suits when they can make more money off her skin. People talk about how Bey, Nicki, Rihannaa and Miley own their sexuality, but I feel like Janelle OWNS her sexuality because she's not allowing anyone to exploit it. Not record labels and not us. She may wear dresses and skirts in her private life but she's not letting anyone tell her want to wear as an artist. Plus she's still sexy in a suit.

Beyonce's been doing this ever since she came out when she wasn't even in control of her career. She's just gotten more explicit and wants to call it feminism, lol. In one interview I remember her mother saying how sex sells and just allowing her then teenaged daughter to go along with it. She's used to being exploited- oh I mean--owning her sexuality

[Edited 10/14/14 0:00am]

So is the answer to encourage women to cover up or be more modest? Doesn't that choice also align with a very conservative, patriachial idealogy that can be exploitive, too. Taylor Swift projects a non sexual image and she gets just as much flack from feminists for being too traditional. Isn't better to encourage people to make the best choice for them and let the chips fall where they may? People are going to judge and criticize no matter what. Or maybe its better to not align yourself with any movement and everyone will leave you alone , but then again Beyonce got called out for that by Harry Belafonte.

BobGeorge909 said:

I never knew she was a 'feminist'. She feeds into and abuses almost every sexual stereotype around. One video I love is her becoming a stripper(<---why i love it...lol) to get her mans attentions from the newspaper. In another she tries to take credit or be proud over being smart and paying her bills. That's great...u should be intelligent and good with money. Next she gonna sing about how she takes care of her kid. YOURE SUPPOSED TOO! And of coursebthers that bills bills bills song...begging a man to take care of her...lol. Which is it...am I paying or are u....lemme know. And there's plenty of ways to get a mans attention besides stripping. And since when does criticizing one creole girl turn into an offence on all black women.

lol I said the same thing.

In general what and how did race come into the picture

Annie said nothing of race and what other latina, Italian, black, white women in the same vein of music does not act out on stage the same way saying in some way or another they are feminist

Annie should actually contact Beyonce and have a sit down with her

lrn36 said:

starbelly said:

Just because a woman proclaims herself a feminist doesn't mean her choices can't ever be critiqued. "Choice feminism" ain't going to get women anywhere either, especially if their choices constantly fall in line with the patriarchy. Yes you can be sexual and a feminist, but I find it hard to believe that all these new-feminist pop stars have "chosen" to have a sexualized image, and therein lies my problem with it.

Janelle Monae has an image too, yes, but you know she chose to do that. Why? Because no record label is going to encourage an attractive female artist like her to just wear suits when they can make more money off her skin. People talk about how Bey, Nicki, Rihannaa and Miley own their sexuality, but I feel like Janelle OWNS her sexuality because she's not allowing anyone to exploit it. Not record labels and not us. She may wear dresses and skirts in her private life but she's not letting anyone tell her want to wear as an artist. Plus she's still sexy in a suit.

Beyonce's been doing this ever since she came out when she wasn't even in control of her career. She's just gotten more explicit and wants to call it feminism, lol. In one interview I remember her mother saying how sex sells and just allowing her then teenaged daughter to go along with it. She's used to being exploited- oh I mean--owning her sexuality

[Edited 10/14/14 0:00am]

So is the answer to encourage women to cover up or be more modest? Doesn't that choice also align with a very conservative, patriachial idealogy that can be exploitive, too. Taylor Swift projects a non sexual image and she gets just as much flack from feminists for being too traditional. Isn't better to encourage people to make the best choice for them and let the chips fall where they may? People are going to judge and criticize no matter what. Or maybe its better to not align yourself with any movement and everyone will leave you alone , but then again Beyonce got called out for that by Harry Belafonte.

No I don't believe every woman HAS to cover up and be modest, but for me as a young woman it is alarming to see almost every popular female singer today be sexualized the way they are and then these singers tell us they they do it because of feminism and because it's empowering when really they're just being used. Sinead O'Connor said it best in her letter to Miley:

“The music business doesn’t give a sh– about you, or any of us. They will prostitute you for all you are worth, and cleverly make you think it’s what YOU wanted…

OldFriends4Sale said:

Annie should actually contact Beyonce and have a sit down with her

To her credit she actually expressed a desire to do that.

"I mean, I think she’s a phenomenal artist — I just love her performances — but I’d like to sit down [with her]. I think I’d like to sit down with quite a few artists and talk to them. I’d like to listen to them; I’d like to hear what they truly think.”

starbelly said:

lrn36 said:

So is the answer to encourage women to cover up or be more modest? Doesn't that choice also align with a very conservative, patriachial idealogy that can be exploitive, too. Taylor Swift projects a non sexual image and she gets just as much flack from feminists for being too traditional. Isn't better to encourage people to make the best choice for them and let the chips fall where they may? People are going to judge and criticize no matter what. Or maybe its better to not align yourself with any movement and everyone will leave you alone , but then again Beyonce got called out for that by Harry Belafonte.

No I don't believe every woman HAS to cover up and be modest, but for me as a young woman it is alarming to see almost every popular female singer today be sexualized the way they are and then these singers tell us they they do it because of feminism and because it's empowering when really they're just being used. Sinead O'Connor said it best in her letter to Miley:

“The music business doesn’t give a sh– about you, or any of us. They will prostitute you for all you are worth, and cleverly make you think it’s what YOU wanted…

noimageatall said:

CharismaDove said:

Not going to speak about all female artists, but imo there's nothing un-feminist about Beyonce being extremely sexual. Objectification? In that case, plenty of stars of both genders are 'objectified'. Adam Levine, Zac Efron, I could go on and on are constantly shirtless and exploiting their sexiness for girls to enjoy and they use it to further their profile. So if Beyonce does the same there's no problem about it. Sexuality is A HUGE part of human life... humans are visual creatures. If they see something they like, they're more likely to enjoy the music.

And this Annie Lennox chick should fuck off. If feminism is about women being in charge of their lives (and Beyonce obviously seems to be), who is she to argue against 'how' Beyonce practices feminism? JMHO..

There IS a difference and I do not understand why intelligent people cannot see this. There is a HUGE difference between female and male objectification whether you think there is or not.

Objectification of women supports a patriarchal view by society that women are actually nothing more than sex objects. This generally does not apply to men.

Women do not sexually objectify men generally as a group. (societal norm). When women (and gay men) objectify men, it doesn't lower the man's status. Men have the means to systematically hold back women through objectification. In pornography, modeling, and the music industry, women who shake their ass or use their ass for the sole purpose of shaking ass (Bey, Miley, Nicki, etc) lose respect and status. When LL was arrested for humping a couch on tour, (and I was there to see it) everyone was angry with the police (not him) for daring to interrupt his groove.

objectify • degrade to the status of a mere object: a deeply sexist attitude that objectifies women.

Case in point...Magic Mike. Male stars stripping basically. The only thing that movie did was boost those mens’ careers. Do you remember the backlash Demi Moore got for her role in Striptease?

In a perfect world, we would not need feminism. Everyone would have equal rights and equally respect and appreciate each other. There would be no ‘rape culture’ and the glass ceiling. However, that is not the case and I doubt it will be for some time. Until then we need women who are strong role models without thrusting crotch, showing vulva, and telling our pre-teens that this is how you keep a man.

"Women are actually nothing more than sex objects" but in entertainment business, it's still the same for both. Female models like Kate Upton get CAREERS on their hotness and willingness to show off their goods, the same way Adam Levine would (and really, I think everyone knows why majority of women like him... He's sexy, but has got a voice that would be UGLY on anyone else )

.

Hmm, well I don't know, most people seem to respect Beyonce. She IS hot and well-endowed, but I hear a lot about her independance and overall musical appeal just as much. Her shaking her ass hasn't done anything to hold her back, imo.

.

everyone was mad at the police for interrupting his groove, I'm pretty sure if a female artist was throwing an amazing and sexual concert for fans and was arrested halfway through, everyone would be criticizing the police too.

.

And the reason Nicki, Miley etc are criticized for showing off their goods are not because people look at them like objects now, the criticism comes from the idea that yeah they're hot but that's it. They use their attractiveness to cover up their lack of talent, which is why Nicki Minaj is constantly ridiculed. And Miley is just weird. I think when Prince did something similar back at the 91 MTV Awards, he wasn't exactly looked at as awesome either... overt sexuality's always gonna be criticized by someone, male or female. But for others, it'll make a career for them.

.

Basically, I know what you're saying about the patriarchy and etc, but I don't think it's that deep when it comes to entertainment. There'll be sexual people of both genders, some will be liked (Beyonce) and some will be disliked (Miley)... in fact, now if a man does something sexual on stage he'll immediately be called a chauvinistic pig/sexist towards women, but not the other way around. Anything sexual a man does or says is looked at as sexist or misogynistic... but not the other way arounud. It's okay for women to have a view on all men as being some sort of way... but not the other way around. I know this has nothing to do with patriarchal oppression with women (which goes deeper than this sort of shallow stuff), but I'm just saying, it's not like men can be completely sexual all they want and suffer no repurcissions.

.

Interested on hearing a response. Just to clarify no ill intent was put in this message... I'm looking at it in a open-minded way, I think you made good points throughout

[Edited 10/14/14 10:31am]

lrn36 said:

starbelly said:

Agreed. Why does a woman owning her sexuality mean getting damn near naked or completely naked? How super conveinent for Beyonce and company to own their sexuality in the way most hetero men like it LOL. Janelle Monae wears nothing but suits and she still exudes sexiness to me.

Its not going to be too long until Janelle starts sexing up her image, not that there is anything wrong with that. She's looking good here.

there are a few of them out there now with a song about the booty

.

I love the song though

starbelly said:

lrn36 said:

So is the answer to encourage women to cover up or be more modest? Doesn't that choice also align with a very conservative, patriachial idealogy that can be exploitive, too. Taylor Swift projects a non sexual image and she gets just as much flack from feminists for being too traditional. Isn't better to encourage people to make the best choice for them and let the chips fall where they may? People are going to judge and criticize no matter what. Or maybe its better to not align yourself with any movement and everyone will leave you alone , but then again Beyonce got called out for that by Harry Belafonte.

No I don't believe every woman HAS to cover up and be modest, but for me as a young woman it is alarming to see almost every popular female singer today be sexualized the way they are and then these singers tell us they they do it because of feminism and because it's empowering when really they're just being used. Sinead O'Connor said it best in her letter to Miley:

“The music business doesn’t give a sh– about you, or any of us. They will prostitute you for all you are worth, and cleverly make you think it’s what YOU wanted…

How is that different from any job on the planet? Its not up to your employer to look out for you. Its up to you to advocate for your own rights. Why did Sinead assume that the image Miley is projecting is not the one she wants? Why is it so hard to believe that women can be just as sexual, vulgar, and over the top as men?

For me, I don't care if any artist is overly sexual because I grew a fan of Prince's music and I would be hypocrite to turn around and chastise newer artists for that. I mean Prince did a song about enjoying incest and non of these new artists can top that in vulgarity. I care about the quality and creativity

of the music. The lack of truly great music is a bigger problem than the subject matter. Its like reading a trashy novel or watching gory horror film. Some are bad and some are good, but the genres themsleves aren't inherently dangerous.

What's more dangerous, Beyonce's sexual image or thinking women aren't smart or mature enough to realize its all fantasy?

[Edited 10/14/14 20:37pm]

noimageatall said:

Why can't a feminist hold a positive, healthy view of sex...fully enjoying sex while also being adamantly opposed to this sexual exploitation and commodification of women's bodies for profit????? I can!!!

It boils down to this IMO...read "Female Chauvinist Pigs." The point of the book not being what you'd think...it's about this "raunch culture" mainly promoted by men that is shoved down our throats while pseudo-feminists like Bouncy try to justify it as a form liberation and empowerment. It's hilarious to me that she is falsely promoting "feminism" to young impressionable minds while participating in HER VERY OWN sexual exploitation AND in the exploitation of her FEMALE backup dancers (of which she stated THAT having an all female band/dancers makes her a feminist too). I just can't roll my eyes enough for this hypocrisy.

[Edited 10/12/14 18:29pm]

This couldn't be more correct.
Madonna has gone on record to say essentially that she used to think that being so sexual was liberating and since she chose to do that and no man made her do it made it right. She now knows that she would do some things different, the self sexual objectification she did plays into the objectification of all women. Madonna still would be sexual, but for instance (If she could do it over) she wouldn't chain herself to a bed like in the Express yourself video.

babynoz said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Annie should actually contact Beyonce and have a sit down with her

To her credit she actually expressed a desire to do that.

"I mean, I think she’s a phenomenal artist — I just love her performances — but I’d like to sit down [with her]. I think I’d like to sit down with quite a few artists and talk to them. I’d like to listen to them; I’d like to hear what they truly think.”

This is what I do not understand when some artists/musicians/songwriters etc (people like Annie who are credible artistic veteran artists) try to criticize Beyonce. They say things like "O what she does is not feminism" but I still like her or she is still phenomenal. Why can't you just criticize her without the added bullshit? Why tip toe around the truth?Why try to sugar coat the truth with bullshit you know damn well you dont believe yourself, (maybe some do) but I just doubt some of them really believe she is so phenomenal and so innovative. I mean give me break already lol

Alot of the ass kissing Beyonce gets is just to save face because people are afraid to publicly criticize her and out of respect of her popularity. I highly doubt that these artists find her as phenomenal or fascinating as they claim she is. I am willing to bet Annie probably does not even have her in her playlist. LOL but thanks Annie!

[Edited 10/15/14 3:33am]

^^it reminds me of when Oprah insisted that she has 50 Cent songs on her iPod (after he criticized her for not having rappers on her show)....lol....I bet that Oprah can't even name one of his songs!

When Miley Cyrus does it she's 'free to be who she wants to be.'

When Beyonce does it she's "the anti-feminist."

There's a strong history of oversexualizing black women so rather than to applaud people such as Beyonce who does have total control over her career and her image white feminists would rather frown and criticize it. Yet, when a white woman does it, they will come to her aid in a heartbeat from 'sexists.' It's a horrible double standard.

At the end of the day, it's highly encourage for young, attractive women to use their sexuality as a selling point. This is no secret. Once they hit a certain age they are criticized about knowiung their place, i.e. Mariah Carey (who still looks great by the way). Yet, Beyonce's biggest demographic are women rather than straight cis men so...it's like...yeah.