Ellie said:

How is it not true? The album came and went and was Top 10 in a few countries, but the singles performed very poorly. Unless you have some stats saying she had a triple platinum success in Bolivia.

Don't know all the chart stats from the top of my head but:

Rhythm nation (the single) went #9 in France

In the late 80's R&B never did exceptional in Europe other than Whitney and MJ.

A top 20 hit was a feat.

HAPPYPERSON said:

Yes

Ellie said:

PatrickS77 said:

Okay. You don't seem to like her, but give credit where credit is due. That's the way love goes was #2 in the UK. Let's wait a while and What have you done for me lately both went to #3 in the UK. She played plenty of arena dates in the UK. She was a household name in the 80s, even if you haven't heard of her then.

That's not the point. I actually like Janet. What I'm disputing is the specific influence of Rhythm Nation 1814. She's had success around the world to some extent before and since, but RN1814 was promoted to death around Europe and still failed quite miserably.

She also hasn't played a single arena date in the UK at least since the 90s.

[Edited 9/16/14 0:07am]

Wow. That's truly well hidden. Hmm, define "quite miserably". I took first took note of her when I heard and saw the videos of "When I think of you" and "Nasty" and then caught wind of her again when she performed "Miss you much" and "Rhythm nation" on german TV and finally bought my first Janet CD after I saw "Black cat" and that was in Austria, not exactly a mecca of black/dance music. I agree that her success compared to Madonna somewhat pales and I'm not sure if I would say she's the "most significant female musical artist of the '80s". I might say she is "one of the most".... but really, what is important to someone might mean shit to someone else and vice versa and obviously the way her career is now compared to where Madonna is, it seems ridiculous to say that. But then and there in the 80s and at the beginning of the 90s (where Madonna was in the crapper as well and not a lot of people would have predicted she still would be going strong 20 years later selling out stadiums) Janet certainly was comparable to Madonna, especially in the US and probably some other areas, while in the UK (and Europe) she wasn't quite on that level, but not without her success either. She did play 16 UK arena shows on her 3 succesful tours through Europe in the 90s and the 3 Royal Albert Hall shows in 2011 were sold out (or at least close to sold out).

babynoz said:

She can't sing though...

Bollocks. She can sing just fine. Here is a example of someone who can't sing:

Edit: Geez. What is wrong with that fucking board again.. here is the direct link: https://www.youtube.com/w...qaDqg#t=79

[Edited 9/17/14 15:52pm]

PatrickS77 said:

Thank you for schooling this font! It kills me when people say Janet can't sing but then turn around and call Madonna the Queen of Pop has if she can sing or dance for that matter.

http://www.glistsociety.com/2014/09/25-greatest-moments-that-made-janet-jacksons-rhythm-nation-1814-album-a-modern-day-classic/

Going by this definition, Rhythm Nation 1814 is most definately her Magnum Opus

Janet was the most significant female musical artist of 1989

In total, this is a shared honor with Madonna and Whitney Houston superceding her.

Thanks for posting these articles. I love seeing Janet get the praise she deserves! Happy Birthday RN!

The only 80's song I liked from her was Black Cat

Janet Jackson's 'Rhythm Nation 1814': Still dancing and dreaming 25 years later

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY 9/19/2014

Like serialized television and comic-book movies, R&B is in the midst of a golden age. As ambivalent as I am about Beyoncé’s work, her influence cannot be overstated, and her sequined coattails have been long enough to support an incredible wave of exceptionally provocative albums from next-in-line voices both female (Jhené Aiko, FKA Twigs, Tinashe) and male (Frank Ocean, Miguel, the Weeknd).

The roots of this form of modern R&B can be traced back to Janet Jackson’s landmark album Rhythm Nation 1814, which turns 25 years old today. Though it’s a quarter century old, Rhythm Nation has barely aged—it sounds as rich and vital as it did when it was first released, and stylistically as contemporary as anything on the Billboard charts.

Jackson was coming off a huge run with her breakthrough 1986 album Control, which was her first collaboration with Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis. Her first two releases, crafted under the watchful eye of her father, Joe, were mildly popular mostly because they carried the Jackson name, but a frustrated Janet fired her dad going into the creation of the aptly-titled Control.

The emancipation paid off, as Control spawned a huge parade of hit singles, including the controversial and self-possessed anthems “What Have You Done For Me Lately” and “Nasty.” The videos from Control were all over MTV, and Janet established herself as an instantly dominant pop figure talked about in the same sentences as Madonna and her older brother Michael.

Under normal circumstances, following up a sexy singularity like Control with an album focusing on social consciousness and change could have been disastrous, but Rhythm Nation 1814 is a glorious exception. Again built around the militant funk of Jam & Lewis, the album created a parallel-universe utopia with, as Janet intoned, “no geographic boundaries, bound together through our beliefs. We are like-minded individuals, sharing a common vision, pushing toward a world rid of color lines.”

That comes from the first track “Interlude: Pledge,” one of several breaks between songs that tie together the Rhythm Nation narrative. Janet’s vision of cultural harmony was admittedly naive, but an artist of her caliber hadn’t taken as big and bold a chance since Stevie Wonder went on his legendary run in the early ’70s with classics like Innervisions and Songs in the Key of Life. And her concerns have remained timeless, sadly: the conclusion of the somebody-think-of-the-children ballad “Livin’ in a World (They Didn’t Make)” includes audio of a news report about a school shooting.

Janet never had much of a voice, technically, but she was able to do a lot with it when paired with Jam & Lewis’ genre-hopping mix of muscular funk, frothy pop, and slick rock. Control was one of the seminal New Jack Swing albums, and Rhythm Nation doubles down on that fusion. But there are also elements of many more pop, R&B, and hip-hop movements to come: “Alright,” with its Heavy D guest rap, has the same kind of hip-hop soul kick that pre-dates Mary J. Blige’s What’s the 411?, while the ebullient smash single “Escapade” sounds like a building block for the turn-of-the-century teen pop craze.

Any pop star who has borrowed the swagger and crunch from hair metal—Rihanna, Pink, Christina Aguilera—owes something to “Black Cat.” Every Gwen Stefani song is essentially “Miss You Much.” And title track “Rhythm Nation” remains an incredibly kinetic workout that provided the DNA for everything from Lady Gaga’s “Paparazzi” to the bulk of Beyoncé’s 4.

But to reduce Rhythm Nation to merely a series of songs is to undersell just how gigantic its cultural impact was. The album was accompanied by a half-hour film project Rhythm Nation 1814 Film, which aired on MTV and married a story about two would-be musicians derailed by drug use with performances of a handful of songs from the album. Janet’s leather-and-jackboot dystopian style created a huge fashion phenomenon, and her Rhythm Nation World Tour was a monumental success both artistically and commercially.

It all helped cement Rhythm Nation as a classic — and was born out in its sales figures. Though it debuted at an underwhelming number 28 on the Billboard 200, the album steadily grew on the back of its hit singles, provocative videos, and the head-turning spectacle of her live show (which non-attendees got a taste of at the 1990 MTV Video Music Awards when she performed “Black Cat”). It went double platinum by the end of 1989, and went on to become the best-selling album of 1990, eventually sending seven singles to the top five, including four number ones. All told, Rhythm Nation 1814 has sold nearly 20 million copies worldwide.

By the time all the singles were out and the tour was complete, Janet had spent the better part of three years promoting Rhythm Nation 1814. Her next album, 1993’s janet., was an even bigger juggernaut, bringing another string of huge radio and MTV hits (including “If,” “That’s the Way Love Goes,” and “Any Time, Any Place,” which Kendrick Lamar immortalized when he sampled it for his track “Poetic Justice”) and the pre-Internet meme of somebody holding your boobs for you. (The image originally appeared on the deluxe edition of the album but was probably more popular as a Rolling Stone cover; it was later aped by the likes of Ol’ Dirty Bastard, South Park, Negativeland, Kathy Griffin, and Psych.)

Janet has said that she put “1814” in the title of Rhythm Nation 1814 because that was the year that “The Star-Spangled Banner” was written, and she thought of the music from Rhythm Nation as a new national anthem for what she saw as an idealized uprising in youth culture that would put away drugs and prejudice in favor of education and dancing.

While Rhythm Nation 1814 didn’t inspire that kind of revolution, it was its own movement: A lot of artists had gone genre-hopping and developed their own style and taken on social causes in the form of pop music, but few—before or since—have done it as successfully as Janet Jackson did on Rhythm Nation 1814. And while the world may not be rid of racism or violence, we’re still dancing.

Always Imitated, Never Duplicated: Everything In Pop Music That Janet Jackson Did First

VH1 9.19.2014

We’re celebrating the 25th anniversary of the groundbreaking album Janet Jackon’s Rhythm Nation 1814 and bowing down before the pop goddess that is Janet Jackson. Almost from the start Janet was a trailblazer, fusing pop, R&B and hip-hop, raising the bar for music video choreography, speaking out about social injustice and breaking racial and sexual taboos. The trends she started in fashion and music can still be seen in the work of today’s female stars, such as Ciara, Britney Spears and Beyonce among many others.

We’re not the only ones who think Janet changed the course of females in pop music. In the video below, see how others reflect on how the star influenced their lives. Her infectious dance moves and confidence oozed sexiness. Her messages were empowering. And if you thought your other favorite pop divas were completely original, your mind is about to be blown. Here are all of the things Janet did first, that everyone else couldn’t resist doing too.

1. Janet Set The Record For Top 5 Singles from A Single Album

All seven of RN‘s commercial singles - “Miss You Much,” “Rhythm Nation,” “Escapade,” “Alright,” “Come Back to Me,” “Black Cat,” and “Love Will Never Do (Without You)” - hit the top five of the Billboard Hot 100 chart, even breaking the record previously set by brother Michael Jackson’s Thriller. Her record still hasn’t been broken.

2. Janet Was The First Woman To Create A Long-Form Music Video

Long before Yonce left us in shock and awe over her surprise self-titled visual album, Janet was blowing our minds with the groundbreaking long form “Rhythm Nation” video. Her iconic unisex militant attire, complex choreography and black and white coloring of the video was meant to erase the barriers between people of different races. Janet has said, “There were so many races in that video, from black to white and all the shades of gray in between.” Her song and video tried to start a movement, while other pop singers, like Madonna, were creating videos like this...

3. Janet Rocked High Waisted Pants And Chiseled Abs Before Everyone Else

Janet coined this signature look of the 1990s and later used by just about every pop star and model of the era and you know it.

4. Janet Took Music Video Choreography To The Next Level

Before Britney Spears and Beyonce, Janet truly raised to bar on dancing in her music videos. While Madonna was still frolicking and rolling around in a wedding dresses, Janet was getting down with her bad self. Next time you see a pop singer working it with intricate group choreography while singing, know that Miss J did that shizz first.

5. Janet Was The First Female Artist To Have Multiple No. 1 Hits From A Single Album In Three Separate Years

“Miss You Much” (’89), “Escapade” and “Black Cat” (’90), and “Love Will Never Do (Without You)” (’91) were all from Janet Jackson’s Rhythm Nation 1814 and rose to the top of the charts in three consecutive calendar years.

6. Janet Was The First African-American Pop Singer To Promote Feminism Through Music

“Listen up. I’m not a prude, I just want some respect.” Until the ’80s, feminism in music was hard to find and when you did it was it mostly the provence of marginal white artists operating on rock’s fringe. It was “crossover” music star Jackson who really explored the subject and brought the perspectives of African-American women into the conversation. As noted rock critic Anthony DeCurtis said , the combination of Janet’s lyrics and presence allowed for “[a] product that has as one of its aims the betterment of black people and the creation of role models for black women.” Janet was teaching women everywhere not to take any s–t from men, long before Beyonce preached feminism with “***Flawless.”

7. Janet Jackson Was The First Women To Break Down The Racial Barriers In Pop

In Rhythm Nation‘s introduction, Janet states: “We are a nation with no geographic boundaries… pushing toward a world rid of color lines.” Just years prior to the album’s release, radio was strictly segragated between white rock and pop bands and black R&B singers and rappers. Then Janet came on the scene and helped build the bridge between these isolated genres, fusing hip-hop hooks with R&B soul and a sleek pop sheen, starting a new revolution through music and dance.

8. Janet Was The First Female African-American Artist To Explore Her Sexuality In Public

With hits like “Anytime, Any Place” and “If,” it was clear that Janet was striking against the taboo of women talking about their sexuality. Tina Turner and Whitney Houston were not telling men to call out their name or ask who it belonged to and they certainly wouldn’t go to the extremes of The Velvet Rope album where Jackson explored themes of BDSM.

9. Janet Jackson Was The First Female To Win A Grammy For Best Long Form Music Video

Janet Jackson took home the Best Music Video, Long Form gold for “Rhythm Nation” in 1990, the first female artist in music history to do so.

This section of Prince.org never ceases to amaze me. How can anyone who likes Prince, the Prince that does Lovesexy etc even begin to rate Janet Jackson. I don't hate her but she's just a pop star. I just read some of these articles about Rhythm Nation and good God talk about adding depth to something so average. Feminism? Black crossover? It was just another abum written by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis doing high level rip offs of Prince beats.

Why cant people just say they were good pop songs. JJ as an "artist" again a term very over used. Kate Bush is an artist Janet as with her brother are pop stars. They cant influence as such because its all so immediate. They can be copied. You couldnt go away and say I will use their beats or their production value etc-there is no nuance to derive-they are commercial entities who rehash things that are familiar enough but different enough to buy as "new".

JJ as a solo performer without Jimmy Jam and TL is an incredibly weak performer but that doesnt matter with such great production values. But for god sake when u hear songs like lates wait a while the woman is a drip. She has no personality and is insipidiness on legs, I don't mena it harshly but she almost comes across vacant as if she has learning difficulties.

And Madonna=again why cant that woman just be happy with her success-y does she need to try and make us believe she is a producer and a song writer. Also y does she need to justify her behaviour as post feminist. Getting your tits out is still getting your tits out. She is not an artist and neither do I need everybody to be for me to listen to them

jcurley said:

This section of Prince.org never ceases to amaze me. How can anyone who likes Prince, the Prince that does Lovesexy etc even begin to rate Janet Jackson. I don't hate her but she's just a pop star. I just read some of these articles about Rhythm Nation and good God talk about adding depth to something so average. Feminism? Black crossover? It was just another abum written by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis doing high level rip offs of Prince beats.

Why cant people just say they were good pop songs. JJ as an "artist" again a term very over used. Kate Bush is an artist Janet as with her brother are pop stars. They cant influence as such because its all so immediate. They can be copied. You couldnt go away and say I will use their beats or their production value etc-there is no nuance to derive-they are commercial entities who rehash things that are familiar enough but different enough to buy as "new".

JJ as a solo performer without Jimmy Jam and TL is an incredibly weak performer but that doesnt matter with such great production values. But for god sake when u hear songs like lates wait a while the woman is a drip. She has no personality and is insipidiness on legs, I don't mena it harshly but she almost comes across vacant as if she has learning difficulties.

And Madonna=again why cant that woman just be happy with her success-y does she need to try and make us believe she is a producer and a song writer. Also y does she need to justify her behaviour as post feminist. Getting your tits out is still getting your tits out. She is not an artist and neither do I need everybody to be for me to listen to them

she's a "weak performer" you say

rewind back to 2001, as she performed the ALL FOR YOU tour in my hometown that spring

Janet Jackson started her show at 8 oclock on the dot and performed non-stop to almost 11:15 at night....

that's over 3 hours of performing, song after song......from her most recent song all the way back to her first hit YOUNG LOVE from 1982....and the crowd was rockin like there was no tomorrow

and she gave ode, and tribute to her brother MJ midway durign the show.....it was very classy

she can't have too much learning difficulties, she was already performing at the age of 7.....and she unleashed a billion dollar manifesto for the ages last year......

she starred in 3 major TV shows ....that means she had to remember her acting script for those roles

you say Janet can't influence huh?.....

well, rewind back to 1989-1991 when she unleashed RHYTHM NATION...1814

she had millions of young women and grown women emulating her and took her message to heart where many women gave testimony to changing their life for the better as a result

thats' bigger and more meaningful than just being a pop-star

[Edited 9/19/14 18:39pm]

jcurley said:

This section of Prince.org never ceases to amaze me. How can anyone who likes Prince, the Prince that does Lovesexy etc even begin to rate Janet Jackson. I don't hate her but she's just a pop star. I just read some of these articles about Rhythm Nation and good God talk about adding depth to something so average. Feminism? Black crossover? It was just another abum written by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis doing high level rip offs of Prince beats.

Why cant people just say they were good pop songs. JJ as an "artist" again a term very over used. Kate Bush is an artist Janet as with her brother are pop stars. They cant influence as such because its all so immediate. They can be copied. You couldnt go away and say I will use their beats or their production value etc-there is no nuance to derive-they are commercial entities who rehash things that are familiar enough but different enough to buy as "new".

JJ as a solo performer without Jimmy Jam and TL is an incredibly weak performer but that doesnt matter with such great production values. But for god sake when u hear songs like lates wait a while the woman is a drip. She has no personality and is insipidiness on legs, I don't mena it harshly but she almost comes across vacant as if she has learning difficulties.

And Madonna=again why cant that woman just be happy with her success-y does she need to try and make us believe she is a producer and a song writer. Also y does she need to justify her behaviour as post feminist. Getting your tits out is still getting your tits out. She is not an artist and neither do I need everybody to be for me to listen to them

And yet you deemed Janet Jackson important enough to come in and say all that? Seems counterproductive to me. You know what I do when I happen to glance the thread of an artist that I really don't care for? I pass it by. Just a tip.

Scorp said:

@Seanman you better Stan! Lol! People can't stand to see this woman get praised. I'm loving all of the articles about this Iconic album. When an album can save lives and inspire people to better themselves it speaks volumes. And that's what RN did!

While Jimmy and Terry provided the music they did not provide the visual aspects of the album. And we all know that Janet is a visual artist. Those videos and performances where the driving force behind the success of RN. So don't sit here and downplay Janet parts in this.

BlackCat1985 said:

Scorp said:

she's a "weak performer" you say

rewind back to 2001, as she performed the ALL FOR YOU tour in my hometown that spring

Janet Jackson started her show at 8 oclock on the dot and performed non-stop to almost 11:15 at night....

that's over 3 hours of performing, song after song......from her most recent song all the way back to her first hit YOUNG LOVE from 1982....and the crowd was rockin like there was no tomorrow

and she gave ode, and tribute to her brother MJ midway durign the show.....it was very classy

she can't have too much learning difficulties, she was already performing at the age of 7.....and she unleashed a billion dollar manifesto for the ages last year......

she starred in 3 major TV shows ....that means she had to remember her acting script for those roles

you say Janet can't influence huh?.....

well, rewind back to 1989-1991 when she unleashed RHYTHM NATION...1814

she had millions of young women and grown women emulating her and took her message to heart where many women gave testimony to changing their life for the better as a result

thats' bigger and more meaningful than just being a pop-star

[Edited 9/19/14 18:39pm]

@Seanman you better Stan! Lol! People can't stand to see this woman get praised. I'm loving all of the articles about this Iconic album. When an album can save lives and inspire people to better themselves it speaks volumes. And that's what RN did! While Jimmy and Terry provided the music they did not provide the visual aspects of the album. And we all know that Janet is a visual artist. Those videos and performances where the driving force behind the success of RN. So don't sit here and downplay Janet parts in this.

absolutely

BlackCat1985 and Scorp

Janet's influence on pop culture is indelible and undeniable. It's gotten to the point now where every month or so, yet another artist is either speaking about how she influenced them or showing her influence in their work. Recently, Tinashe, the "2 On" singer, spoke about how she not only grew up loving and being inspired by Janet, but that she'd love to collaborate with her.

SEANMAN said:

BlackCat1985 and Scorp

Janet's influence on pop culture is indelible and undeniable. It's gotten to the point now where every month or so, yet another artist is either speaking about how she influenced them or showing her influence in their work. Recently, Tinashe, the "2 On" singer, spoke about how she not only grew up loving and being inspired by Janet, but that she'd love to collaborate with her.

proof is always in the pudding....

it's like I think pundits believe those who actually witnessed this stuff whent it happened are making this stuff up......that's mindboggling to me...

during that period of time, I saw so many young women dressed in full black, wearing denim jeans with quasi jackets, hats w/their hail wrapped in a ponytail......

and it looked good.....it gave good vibes......

it was awesome to witness, much more inspiring that what we are seeing now.......

what's so amazing about 1814, was that we did not see it coming...

Janet threw everyone off guard, and just got better and better........

other than Lauren Hill's MISEDUCATION, there hasn't been another socially conscious driven album by another female artist since 1814......

In today's musical climate, I don't even think it would be allowed

SEANMAN said:

jcurley said:

This section of Prince.org never ceases to amaze me. How can anyone who likes Prince, the Prince that does Lovesexy etc even begin to rate Janet Jackson. I don't hate her but she's just a pop star. I just read some of these articles about Rhythm Nation and good God talk about adding depth to something so average. Feminism? Black crossover? It was just another abum written by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis doing high level rip offs of Prince beats.

Why cant people just say they were good pop songs. JJ as an "artist" again a term very over used. Kate Bush is an artist Janet as with her brother are pop stars. They cant influence as such because its all so immediate. They can be copied. You couldnt go away and say I will use their beats or their production value etc-there is no nuance to derive-they are commercial entities who rehash things that are familiar enough but different enough to buy as "new".

JJ as a solo performer without Jimmy Jam and TL is an incredibly weak performer but that doesnt matter with such great production values. But for god sake when u hear songs like lates wait a while the woman is a drip. She has no personality and is insipidiness on legs, I don't mena it harshly but she almost comes across vacant as if she has learning difficulties.

And Madonna=again why cant that woman just be happy with her success-y does she need to try and make us believe she is a producer and a song writer. Also y does she need to justify her behaviour as post feminist. Getting your tits out is still getting your tits out. She is not an artist and neither do I need everybody to be for me to listen to them

And yet you deemed Janet Jackson important enough to come in and say all that? Seems counterproductive to me. You know what I do when I happen to glance the thread of an artist that I really don't care for? I pass it by. Just a tip.

Dont patronise me! It was the headline on the thread was too impossible to pass by. My very point is I would ignore JJ-I don't hate her. I like the control album my point is why just coz people like something do they have to add layers on top to give it loads more credence than it deserves. Enjoy it for what it is-I actually find this behaviour arrogant-to throw more weight at something because it has been blessed by ones approval. Someone here has also replied to my comments about how she made peoples lives bette and how they emulated he. How on earth can u emulate emulation-JJ is a package of everything that had gone in the preceding few years and put in a nice safe package. God if u emulate JJ u reall dont aspire to much-millions could be molded into her. Shes just a vessel for good writers and producers-and there is nothing wrong with that. Thats what I want from a POP STAR

jcurley said:

How the hell can you get upset because others don't see Janet the way that you see Janet. Hell that like me trying to tell you that Kate Bush or Prince ain't shit! But I'll never do such a thing because I don't know what those people meant to you. For me growing up has a young black girl people like Janet and Whitney meant a lot to me. It was great to see these women of color dominate and rule the charts. They were more then just popstars.

BlackCat1985 said:

jcurley said:

Dont patronise me! It was the headline on the thread was too impossible to pass by. My very point is I would ignore JJ-I don't hate her. I like the control album my point is why just coz people like something do they have to add layers on top to give it loads more credence than it deserves. Enjoy it for what it is-I actually find this behaviour arrogant-to throw more weight at something because it has been blessed by ones approval. Someone here has also replied to my comments about how she made peoples lives bette and how they emulated he. How on earth can u emulate emulation-JJ is a package of everything that had gone in the preceding few years and put in a nice safe package. God if u emulate JJ u reall dont aspire to much-millions could be molded into her. Shes just a vessel for good writers and producers-and there is nothing wrong with that. Thats what I want from a POP STAR

How the hell can you get upset because others don't see Janet the way that you see Janet. Hell that like me trying to tell you that Kate Bush or Prince ain't shit! But I'll never do such a thing because I don't know what those people meant to you. For me growing up has a young black girl people like Janet and Whitney meant a lot to me. It was great to see these women of color dominate and rule the charts. They were more then just popstars.

these are great points....

and whatever conclusion we reach, especially w/in the context of "pop culture", it often depends on point of reference

if one responds thru the lens of culture, than Janet and her effort w/Rhythm Nation 1814 will be held in high esteem

but thru the "pop" lens, the responds tends to be critical

but the reality is that 1814 maintained equal footing on the R&B and Billboard charts, great balance across the board

which illustrates that 1814 was not only a great R&B record, or a great POP record, it was a great record in of itself

and that only happens on rare occassion and for me, that stands as this album's true legacy

when u embrace a record such as LIVING IN A WORLD (THEY DIDN'T MAKE), there's no musical category for that, the message resonates beyond those realms

Scorp said:

Exactly! I mean how many female artist can pull such an album off and have it be so successful and talked about 25 years later? What Janet did with RN was truly groundbreaking and it hasn't been done again in years. I loved the hell out of this woman for this because she could have took the easy way out and just recorded an album about the family. The way that John McClain wanted her to do.

BlackCat1985 said:

Scorp said:

these are great points....

and whatever conclusion we reach, especially w/in the context of "pop culture", it often depends on point of reference

if one responds thru the lens of culture, than Janet and her effort w/Rhythm Nation 1814 will be held in high esteem

but thru the "pop" lens, the responds tends to be critical

but the reality is that 1814 maintained equal footing on the R&B and Billboard charts, great balance across the board

which illustrates that 1814 was not only a great R&B record, or a great POP record, it was a great record in of itself

and that only happens on rare occassion and for me, that stands as this album's true legacy

when u embrace a record such as LIVING IN A WORLD (THEY DIDN'T MAKE), there's no musical category for that, the message resonates beyond those realms

Exactly! I mean how many female artist can pull such an album off and have it be so successful and talked about 25 years later? What Janet did with RN was truly groundbreaking and it hasn't been done again in years. I loved the hell out of this woman for this because she could have took the easy way out and just recorded an album about the family. The way that John McClain wanted her to do.

wow, I didn't know this

McClain wanted her to do that?

Scorp said:

After the success of Control John McClain didn't think Janet would continue on to be the successful artist that she became. John didn't want Jimmy and Terry to work with Janet anymore. He even lied and told Janet that they didn't want to work with her. Janet had to call Jimmy up herself to let them know that she wanted to work with them again. John wanted Janet to release an album called "Scandal" in which Janet would expose a lot of the Jackson family secrets especially concerning Mj. Janet refused to do this and instead recorded Rhythm Nation. I always felt that the track "You Need Me" was about Joe Jackson. Even tho Janet insisted that it wasn't. In 2008 Janet told Billboard that John really had nothing to do with Rhythm Nation. Jimmy has also said that Janet and John bumped heads constantly. He said that they just couldn't see eye to eye on anything.
[Edited 9/20/14 9:22am]

After the success of CONTROL, they wanted her to do an album called SCANDAL, which would have been about her family. I believe that the unreleased RHYTHM NATION-era track called "You Need Me", which was clearly directed at Joe Jackson, would have been a track on SCANDAL.

jcurley said:

SEANMAN said:

And yet you deemed Janet Jackson important enough to come in and say all that? Seems counterproductive to me. You know what I do when I happen to glance the thread of an artist that I really don't care for? I pass it by. Just a tip.

Dont patronise me! It was the headline on the thread was too impossible to pass by. My very point is I would ignore JJ-I don't hate her. I like the control album my point is why just coz people like something do they have to add layers on top to give it loads more credence than it deserves. Enjoy it for what it is-I actually find this behaviour arrogant-to throw more weight at something because it has been blessed by ones approval. Someone here has also replied to my comments about how she made peoples lives bette and how they emulated he. How on earth can u emulate emulation-JJ is a package of everything that had gone in the preceding few years and put in a nice safe package. God if u emulate JJ u reall dont aspire to much-millions could be molded into her. Shes just a vessel for good writers and producers-and there is nothing wrong with that. Thats what I want from a POP STAR

Many artists are a reflection of what came before them. MJ showed shades of James Brown. Prince had Jimi Hendrix and James Brown influence all in him. That's the way pop music is. It's cyclical. You can take what inspired you and make it your own, and that is what pop icons do.

I love, love, LOVE You Need Me! It makes me think of how If would have sounded musically if it was an RN cut and of course the emotion and subject matter, which I do believe is about Joe (that's right Ms. MyAlbumsAreLikeMyJournals )

Her impact was more towards the second and ending of the 80's and her album sales were much higher in the 90's worldwide though it's still a nice compliment. The other female artists mentioned as candidates were much more popular, though janet built hers up overtime. I think the new album is on the way.

I love, love, LOVE You Need Me! It makes me think of how If would have sounded musically if it was an RN cut and of course the emotion and subject matter, which I do believe is about Joe (that's right Ms. MyAlbumsAreLikeMyJournals )

Her impact was more towards the second and ending of the 80's and her album sales were much higher in the 90's worldwide though it's still a nice compliment. The other female artists mentioned as candidates were much more popular, though janet built hers up overtime. I think the new album is on the way.

BlackCat1985 said:

Scorp said:

wow, I didn't know this

McClain wanted her to do that?

After the success of Control John McClain didn't think Janet would continue on to be the successful artist that she became. John didn't want Jimmy and Terry to work with Janet anymore. He even lied and told Janet that they didn't want to work with her. Janet had to call Jimmy up herself to let them know that she wanted to work with them again. John wanted Janet to release an album called "Scandal" in which Janet would expose a lot of the Jackson family secrets especially concerning Mj. Janet refused to do this and instead recorded Rhythm Nation. I always felt that the track "You Need Me" was about Joe Jackson. Even tho Janet insisted that it wasn't. In 2008 Janet told Billboard that John really had nothing to do with Rhythm Nation. Jimmy has also said that Janet and John bumped heads constantly. He said that they just couldn't see eye to eye on anything. [Edited 9/20/14 9:22am]

wow, I did not know this.....

this confirms what I've been trying to share with MJ's fans of the past 25 years, particularly since the 90s

opportunists w/in the industry had been trying to destroy the Jackson's family dynamic after MJ reached what turned out to be his career pinnacle with THRILLER

this definitely confirms it big time....

as early as 1986, Jermaine Jackson did an interview with Donnie Simpson on BET'S former show Video Soul that opportunists were becoming targets of divide and conquer

No wonder why Rhythm Nation was a creation done so inconsqicuously.....

thanks for sharing this