i really feel like gaga is a lot of prince back in the 80's...

really, really talented and really out there on many levels....

but for a time, they were at the top of the heap.. they hit that place where whatever they were doing hit the commerical zenith...

But, a lot happens and FAST... some bad press, some not as catchy singles and a lot of people.. .i mean A LOT of people doing more accessible for the masses versions of your stuff and you are just ice cold...

look at prince... 1984 = could not get much hotter... ONLY 4 years later and his album didnt make the top 10, the 2nd and 3rd singles didnt even chart!

it can make your head spin..

kind of think the smartest thing is to now just focus on writing good, quality songs... be happy with a smaller but very loyal fanbase that will be there for the next 20-30 years.. like us with prince

[Edited 9/6/14 1:08am]

But both Born This Way and ARTPOP were as commercial as it could get, using 80s nostalgia and stuff. Prince did not want to repeat the success of Purple Rain but Gaga, just like MJ, wanted to get bigger and ended up repeating the same formula... Gypsy is for example a rewrite of The Edge Of Glory.

LiveToTell86 said:

avasdad said:

ummm??? a shitty follow up that no one bought and radio didn't play....

Radio played the first 2 singles plenty...

so explain the commerical failure??

avasdad said:

LiveToTell86 said:

Radio played the first 2 singles plenty...

so explain the commerical failure??

I know that every time that her Born This Way and the other single (it's not registering right now with me) came on the radio, I couldn't change the channel quickly enough. That is my point, people got SOOOO tired of her, there was rebellion.

I think it's important to note this major difference in Prince and Gaga. Prince has always been reclusive. People snap pictures of him because he is an enigma, a snazzy dresser etc...he doesn't overexpose himself. Gaga, conversely, was all about overposing herself. She dressed to get attention, was all over TMZ and has now paid the price for it.

avasdad said:

LiveToTell86 said:

Radio played the first 2 singles plenty...

so explain the commerical failure??

You think commercial failure can only happen without radio airplay? Plenty of songs have been played to death yet the general public wouldn't bother to pick up their album. ARTPOP was definitely one of them, everyone knew she had an album out, she made plenty of appearances, even sang Do What U Want on The Voice with Christina Aguilera yet the album sold 1/3 of Born This Way...

Revolution said:

SoulAlive said:

I think she relies on too many gimmicks and weird costumes.After awhile,people get tired of that and they want substance.

I don't think substance and weird costumes are necessary mutually exclusive. If you look at Boy George and Cyndi Lauper, who are probably the two 80's stars with the most similar 'anything goes and everything is random' look to Gaga, in both cases you got the sense that, under the whole weird and wacky ethos that was the selling point, there was a real person underneath, trying to be heard the best way they knew how. Now obviously neither of these two had explosive careers after their initial stars waned, but even outside their devoted core fanbases, people generally look back on their big hits with fondness and even respect, because, underneath the fun-and-funky there was something real and warm and full of soul. And both are still quietly doing their thing and picking up a few new younger fans who weren't even alive for their heyday (like me) as they go along, because again, each does have something truly unique and truly themselves.

I honestly can't see the same thing being true for Gaga. Her biggest hits were hits because they were unexpected at the time and they're big and shiny and pretty, but to me there's nothing soulful about them at all, and the same is true of Gaga herself. She just seems like a colourful shell to me, with no core at all. I really can't imagine a random 20 year old picking up ArtPop or any of her albums in 30 years by accident, listening to them and thinking to themselves 'wow, this person was really special, I wonder what else she made, and if she's still working now?' Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see it happening.

I kinda think there was nowhere to go but downward from where Gaga was.

There was a lot of pressure and a few setbacks: her hip, her management, pushed back album, her own ego (insisting on calling every step she made "art"). I think that art campaign backfired terribly.

I'm not sure overexposure was the problem, because she took a break for a bit, but when she came back with a general theme of art and fashion, it didn't stick.

From what I heard, her touring budget was scaled way back, so in a sense her more successful period was more "Art" than the era she named "Art(pop)". And it was more impressive in 2008-2010 because she was simply doing it, without proclaiming it.

[Edited 9/7/14 17:45pm]

JustErin said:

r. kelly.

Oh Erin, you are correct but you ain't right LMAO

The fact that she wouldn't accept less than Number 1 and manipulated pricing/discounts to achieve this was, for the first time in the industry, associated as being an act of an artist and made the social media networks as if it were her latest hat. It didn't go down well and people started to sense her narcissistic panic, and fulfil her prophecy/paranoia. Her fall was thus as viral as her rise.

But yeah...file under 'ANOTHER CONTROL FREAK BITES THE DUST'.

[Edited 9/7/14 18:23pm]

Gaga does have a powerful voice. But her "Jazz" songs are cringeworthy. She is trying way too hard to overcompensate for something she doesn't have to overcompensate for. She is clinging onto Tony Bennett for his dear life.

nd33 said:

This thread seems to have become just about people's personal taste. Well, actually I guess the very first line of OP spelt it out haha! So Gaga just did a jazz album and she sounds good. None of us know what she'll try in the coming years. She seems tenacious and driven. She's the only popstar of the current crop who you could drop in a studio and leave her to write/produce/perform a HQ piece of work. Just admit she has talent, but is not to your taste, already! Cause that's all this is really about PS - it is not to my taste either, I don't own any of her records, but I can acknowledge the skills she has over the other pretenders of the day, most of whom could be substituted with anyone who also looks great and has an average performance voice.

Um... my personal tastes didn't get in the way of the question and it didn't influence others to think more subjectively unless you really think people need a green flag to think subjectively on a message board about music? Besides, if you read the entire OP you would also see that I think she's the biggest star we've had in the past 5-6 years despite my not caring for her. Also while it's not stated in the OP, I'm actually interested in her upcoming jazz album with Tony Bennett, so... yeah.

[Edited 9/8/14 5:14am]

MotownSubdivision said:

You know, I think people just got tired of her "zany" style and antics.

She is releasing that duets album with Tony Bennett so maybe her direction is changing... lets see how that one does.

nd33 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Um... my personal tastes didn't get in the way of the question and it didn't influence others to think more subjectively unless you really think people need a green flag to think subjectively on a message board about music? Besides, if you read the entire OP you would also see that I think she's the biggest star we've had in the past 5-6 years despite my not caring for her. Also while it's not stated in the OP, I'm actually interested in her upcoming jazz album with Tony Bennett, so... yeah.

[Edited 9/8/14 5:14am]

You're good, I shouldn't post when I'm dizzy with the flu! Ok, I just had another thought, maybe it's partially because she refuses to be a puppet?

You poor baby! You should be eating homemade chicken soup and watching cartoons in bed! Hope it's not too bad.

That could be it that she's rebellious. Though she's always came off as a glamorized product based on her sickeningly gimmicky appearance, she always seemed to be more than what was being presented to us. She was always hype wrapped up in a tacky package but deep down it seemed like there was some legitimacy underneath all the flash. I still think her persona that made her famous was her doing and the industry and media just ran with it though.

MotownSubdivision said:

nd33 said:

MotownSubdivision said: You're good, I shouldn't post when I'm dizzy with the flu! Ok, I just had another thought, maybe it's partially because she refuses to be a puppet?

You poor baby! You should be eating homemade chicken soup and watching cartoons in bed! Hope it's not too bad.

That could be it that she's rebellious. Though she's always came off as a glamorized product based on her sickeningly gimmicky appearance, she always seemed to be more than what was being presented to us. She was always hype wrapped up in a tacky package but deep down it seemed like there was some legitimacy underneath all the flash. I still think her persona that made her famous was her doing and the industry and media just ran with it though.

.

Thanks! Had some chicken soup yest

.

I think her and Lorde are the only two driving their own images in the pop scene. Gaga though, has come to the time when she needs to re-invent.

.

nd33 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

You poor baby! You should be eating homemade chicken soup and watching cartoons in bed! Hope it's not too bad.

That could be it that she's rebellious. Though she's always came off as a glamorized product based on her sickeningly gimmicky appearance, she always seemed to be more than what was being presented to us. She was always hype wrapped up in a tacky package but deep down it seemed like there was some legitimacy underneath all the flash. I still think her persona that made her famous was her doing and the industry and media just ran with it though.

.

Thanks! Had some chicken soup yest

.

I think her and Lorde are the only two driving their own images in the pop scene. Gaga though, has come to the time when she needs to re-invent.

.

Good good. Let those chunks of white meat revitalize you!

Interesting that you mention Lorde as I see more similarities between her and Gaga in terms of style than Gaga and Madonna. Lorde is exotic but is a lot more elegant and refined with her appearance than the loud mess Gaga presents herself as. The only thing about Lorde is that her music BORES me and I like her.