Graycap23 said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Racist? Nah. Opportunist, appropriator, spineless, disloyal and all out asshole? Yes.

But he's a rich pretty bo who can sing and dance just enough to get byy, so people don't care.

Wow!

I don't understand this opinion of him! What did this kid do? I have never purchased any

Justin Timberlake songs. I don't think he's a great singer or dancer. But I appreciate his

artistry all the same and am having a hard time figuring out why this message board hates

on him so much.

2elijah said:

mjscarousal said:

Justin Timberlake is NOT an R&B artist.

He is a pop star who occassionally makes poor imitations of R&B music. Whether the intentions are to be racist or not, its not respectful or appropiate to say the N word regardless of what race you are. Justin is a dooche. He has made a ton of inappropiate comments about black people but then wants to make his money off of black musi. He made fun of Prince when he accepted an award for him and then made fun of Rihanna's mother on national television. He is an asshole which is why people do not like him and its as simple as that.

That's pretty much my opinion of him.

Elijah, then you must be prepared to tell us what "real R&B music" is and how Timberlake's

music is not that. Again, I'm not asking for who, I'm asking for what.

BlaqueKnight said:

Racist? Nah. Opportunist, appropriator, spineless, disloyal and all out asshole? Yes.

But he's a rich pretty bo who can sing and dance just enough to get byy, so people don't care.

duccichucka said:

2elijah said:

That's pretty much my opinion of him.

Elijah, then you must be prepared to tell us what "real R&B music" is and how Timberlake's

music is not that. Again, I'm not asking for who, I'm asking for what.

What's the difference between Mary J. Blige, for example, and Nicki Minaj?

SeventeenDayze said:

duccichucka said:

Elijah, then you must be prepared to tell us what "real R&B music" is and how Timberlake's

music is not that. Again, I'm not asking for who, I'm asking for what.

What's the difference between Mary J. Blige, for example, and Nicki Minaj?

One is an emcee and the other is a singer. What's yer point?

If you think Justin Timberlake is not doing real R&B music, then you must tell us what real R&B

music is and how Timberlake's music is not what you claim it should be.

duccichucka said:

SeventeenDayze said:

What's the difference between Mary J. Blige, for example, and Nicki Minaj?

One is an emcee and the other is a singer. What's yer point?

If you think Justin Timberlake is not doing real R&B music, then you must tell us what real R&B

music is and how Timberlake's music is not what you claim it should be.

Wake me when he's the headling act at the Essence Festival.

SeventeenDayze said:

duccichucka said:

One is an emcee and the other is a singer. What's yer point?

If you think Justin Timberlake is not doing real R&B music, then you must tell us what real R&B

music is and how Timberlake's music is not what you claim it should be.

Wake me when he's the headling act at the Essence Festival.

What a ridiculous argument.

So acts that haven't headlined the Essence Festival aren't real R&B? Again, you're just telling

us who is a real R&B artist and not what is a real R&B artist. Dayze, you are not a musicologist.

You are not a trained musician. You can not describe what makes R&B "real," and what makes

Justin Timberlake's music not R&B. And therefore, you and yer pal Carousal have no earthly idea

what "real R&B music" is and neither of you really know what you're talking about. How many

times have I asked both of you to explain "real R&B" without you two deflecting?

You both are just talking heads on a message board yammerin' it up who hate Justin Timberlake

because he's enamored with Black American culture and gets paid for it. And I think he slapped

one of y'all in the face because one of you called him a douche and an asshole and spineless.

Yeah, BK, you're included in this, although I think you could begin to describe real R&B

(whatever that is) articulately. Those other two are bush-leaguers.

duccichucka said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Wake me when he's the headling act at the Essence Festival.

What a ridiculous argument.

So acts that haven't headlined the Essence Festival aren't real R&B? Again, you're just telling

us who is a real R&B artist and not what is a real R&B artist. Dayze, you are not a musicologist.

You are not a trained musician. You can not describe what makes R&B "real," and what makes

Justin Timberlake's music not R&B. And therefore, you and yer pal Carousal have no earthly idea

what "real R&B music" is and neither of you really know what you're talking about. How many

times have I asked both of you to explain "real R&B" without you two deflecting?

You both are just talking heads on a message board yammerin' it up who hate Justin Timberlake

because he's enamored with Black American culture and gets paid for it. And I think he slapped

one of y'all in the face because one of you called him a douche and an asshole and spineless.

Yeah, BK, you're included in this, although I think you could begin to describe real R&B

(whatever that is) articulately. Those other two are bush-leaguers.

You don't know me. You don't even know what kind of cereal I like...

duccichucka said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Wake me when he's the headling act at the Essence Festival.

What a ridiculous argument.

So acts that haven't headlined the Essence Festival aren't real R&B? Again, you're just telling

us who is a real R&B artist and not what is a real R&B artist. Dayze, you are not a musicologist.

You are not a trained musician. You can not describe what makes R&B "real," and what makes

Justin Timberlake's music not R&B. And therefore, you and yer pal Carousal have no earthly idea

what "real R&B music" is and neither of you really know what you're talking about. How many

times have I asked both of you to explain "real R&B" without you two deflecting?

You both are just talking heads on a message board yammerin' it up who hate Justin Timberlake

because he's enamored with Black American culture and gets paid for it. And I think he slapped

one of y'all in the face because one of you called him a douche and an asshole and spineless.

Yeah, BK, you're included in this, although I think you could begin to describe real R&B

(whatever that is) articulately. Those other two are bush-leaguers.

Preach!!!

Birds of a feather, troll together....

What's Oprah got to do with it?

Let me take a stab at it at the risk of speaking for other people.

I think what dayze and carousal actually mean when they say he doesn't do "real R&B" is that he isn't a "real R&B artist". His style of R&B is heavily pop influenced. Even songs like "Pusher Love Girl" sound R&B, but it's argueably a pop song with R&B frills.

Possibly what they mean is that if Justin were black and not white, he wouldn't be praised as the second coming and selling millions of copies of his albums and being annointed the best R&b this or that. He'd probably be ridiculed and possibly no one would care. That he's cute and white gives him all the advantages.

Describing what real R&B is is probably an exercise in subjectivity. I'd say Al Green or something like "I Wish" by Stevie Wonder would be considered "real R&B". It's hard to describe if you're not a musicologist but you know it when you hear it. Just like you know what jazz fusion is when you hear it, but try to describe it to the layperson.

Try the song "Gone". Is this a stab at R&B? It sure was touted as such when it came out. But the vocals and arrangement sream otherwise. Jodeci on the other hand I would consider real R&B. Go figure.

CynicKill said:

Let me take a stab at it at the risk of speaking for other people.

I think what dayze and carousal actually mean when they say he doesn't do "real R&B" is that he isn't a "real R&B artist". His style of R&B is heavily pop influenced. Even songs like "Pusher Love Girl" sound R&B, but it's argueably a pop song with R&B frills.

Possibly what they mean is that if Justin were black and not white, he wouldn't be praised as the second coming and selling millions of copies of his albums and being annointed the best R&b this or that. He'd probably be ridiculed and possibly no one would care. That he's cute and white gives him all the advantages.

Describing what real R&B is is probably an exercise in subjectivity. I'd say Al Green or something like "I Wish" by Stevie Wonder would be considered "real R&B". It's hard to describe if you're not a musicologist but you know it when you hear it. Just like you know what jazz fusion is when you hear it, but try to describe it to the layperson.

Try the song "Gone". Is this a stab at R&B? It sure was touted as such when it came out. But the vocals and arrangement sream otherwise. Jodeci on the other hand I would consider real R&B. Go figure.

Great post!

mjscarousal said:

CynicKill said:

Let me take a stab at it at the risk of speaking for other people.

I think what dayze and carousal actually mean when they say he doesn't do "real R&B" is that he isn't a "real R&B artist". His style of R&B is heavily pop influenced. Even songs like "Pusher Love Girl" sound R&B, but it's argueably a pop song with R&B frills.

Possibly what they mean is that if Justin were black and not white, he wouldn't be praised as the second coming and selling millions of copies of his albums and being annointed the best R&b this or that. He'd probably be ridiculed and possibly no one would care. That he's cute and white gives him all the advantages.

Describing what real R&B is is probably an exercise in subjectivity. I'd say Al Green or something like "I Wish" by Stevie Wonder would be considered "real R&B". It's hard to describe if you're not a musicologist but you know it when you hear it. Just like you know what jazz fusion is when you hear it, but try to describe it to the layperson.

Try the song "Gone". Is this a stab at R&B? It sure was touted as such when it came out. But the vocals and arrangement sream otherwise. Jodeci on the other hand I would consider real R&B. Go figure.

Great post!

Agreed!

CynicKill said:

Let me take a stab at it at the risk of speaking for other people.

I think what dayze and carousal actually mean when they say he doesn't do "real R&B" is that he isn't a "real R&B artist". His style of R&B is heavily pop influenced. Even songs like "Pusher Love Girl" sound R&B, but it's argueably a pop song with R&B frills.

Possibly what they mean is that if Justin were black and not white, he wouldn't be praised as the second coming and selling millions of copies of his albums and being annointed the best R&b this or that. He'd probably be ridiculed and possibly no one would care. That he's cute and white gives him all the advantages.

Describing what real R&B is is probably an exercise in subjectivity. I'd say Al Green or something like "I Wish" by Stevie Wonder would be considered "real R&B". It's hard to describe if you're not a musicologist but you know it when you hear it. Just like you know what jazz fusion is when you hear it, but try to describe it to the layperson.

Try the song "Gone". Is this a stab at R&B? It sure was touted as such when it came out. But the vocals and arrangement sream otherwise. Jodeci on the other hand I would consider real R&B. Go figure.

Thank you Cynic, for an intelligent and thoughtful post. Jeezus Christ, what does it take to

get a simple answer around here?

You're wrong. Lemme tell you why: let's say that I grant you your argument that JT (I hate

calling him that but it's a time saver), and his style is more accurately described as R&B pop.

I wouldn't bristle at that. Hear me and hear me good: you are wrong because what is R&B

music is not subjective. There are certain instruments that make up the style of R&B music.

There are rythmic motifs, e.g., claves. Contradanza. Elements from Afro-Cuban musical

stylings. Certain syncopation. Similar riff styles. Certain lyrical content (sometimes, it was

mostly sensual or sexual). And throughout its formation, R&B music has morphed into various

offshoots, one of whom is contemporary R&B music which incorporates POP. Whitney Houston,

Michael Jackson, Prince, and yes, that white boy, JT, are considered pop artists with R&B

foundations OR R&B artists with pop stylings. Either way, there is a way to talk about the

content of what R&B music is objectively.

JT has those things in his music. From claves, R&B musical/band instruments, vocal stylings,

to lyrical content. What I presented here is simplified; nobody here is a musicologist who

also understands music theory and/or songwriting and is equipped to tell me what "Real R&B"

music is. What is subjective is whether you like his music. What is not subjective is what his

music "is." I was being dramatic when I said you're wrong, because you are right on the most

important thing that is happening in this thread: we know it when we hear it. I'm guessing that

if Dayze and Carousal knew musicology and music theory, and composition like I do (kinda)

they would be able to detect the R&B stylings in JT's music, without making claims that he's an

imitator or not a real R&B artist. There is no such fucking thing as a real R&B artist, so stop it,

everyone.

If Dayze and Carousal want to talk about "real R&B" music and whose imitating it, and what

involves "real R&B" music, I'd suggest they do what Wittgenstein asks us to do: if you don't know

what you're talking about, it is best to keep quiet. JT certainly benefits from being a cute

white kid doing "Black" music. . .and we all know how white people love to glorify one of their

own whose doing that "Black" music (see, Presley, Elvis; Lewis, Jerry Lee; Mulligan, Gerry;

Brubeck, Dave). If those two blabber-mouths just admitted that they really don't know what

R&B music is, but they can "hear it," and that they don't really know what they are talking about

when they say "real R&B," but stated: "Justin Timberlake makes shitty music," then I wouldnt

be going ape-shit over this.

And by the way, you did what I specifically asked people not to do: list songs that they consider

to be R&B. That is not telling me what it is; you're just telling me who you think makes R&B

music! Also, what do you think "Take Back the Night" is if it isn't contemporary R&B, thus making

it "real R&B"? (no such thing)

Thanks, Cynic. Good post.

duccichucka said:

CynicKill said:

Let me take a stab at it at the risk of speaking for other people.

I think what dayze and carousal actually mean when they say he doesn't do "real R&B" is that he isn't a "real R&B artist". His style of R&B is heavily pop influenced. Even songs like "Pusher Love Girl" sound R&B, but it's argueably a pop song with R&B frills.

Possibly what they mean is that if Justin were black and not white, he wouldn't be praised as the second coming and selling millions of copies of his albums and being annointed the best R&b this or that. He'd probably be ridiculed and possibly no one would care. That he's cute and white gives him all the advantages.

Describing what real R&B is is probably an exercise in subjectivity. I'd say Al Green or something like "I Wish" by Stevie Wonder would be considered "real R&B". It's hard to describe if you're not a musicologist but you know it when you hear it. Just like you know what jazz fusion is when you hear it, but try to describe it to the layperson.

Try the song "Gone". Is this a stab at R&B? It sure was touted as such when it came out. But the vocals and arrangement sream otherwise. Jodeci on the other hand I would consider real R&B. Go figure.

Thank you Cynic, for an intelligent and thoughtful post. Jeezus Christ, what does it take to

get a simple answer around here?

You're wrong. Lemme tell you why: let's say that I grant you your argument that JT (I hate

calling him that but it's a time saver), and his style is more accurately described as R&B pop.

I wouldn't bristle at that. Hear me and hear me good: you are wrong because what is R&B

music is not subjective. There are certain instruments that make up the style of R&B music.

There are rythmic motifs, e.g., claves. Contradanza. Elements from Afro-Cuban musical

stylings. Certain syncopation. Similar riff styles. Certain lyrical content (sometimes, it was

mostly sensual or sexual). And throughout its formation, R&B music has morphed into various

offshoots, one of whom is contemporary R&B music which incorporates POP. Whitney Houston,

Michael Jackson, Prince, and yes, that white boy, JT, are considered pop artists with R&B

foundations OR R&B artists with pop stylings. Either way, there is a way to talk about the

content of what R&B music is objectively.

JT has those things in his music. From claves, R&B musical/band instruments, vocal stylings,

to lyrical content. What I presented here is simplified; nobody here is a musicologist who

also understands music theory and/or songwriting and is equipped to tell me what "Real R&B"

music is. What is subjective is whether you like his music. What is not subjective is what his

music "is." I was being dramatic when I said you're wrong, because you are right on the most

important thing that is happening in this thread: we know it when we hear it. I'm guessing that

if Dayze and Carousal knew musicology and music theory, and composition like I do (kinda)

they would be able to detect the R&B stylings in JT's music, without making claims that he's an

imitator or not a real R&B artist. There is no such fucking thing as a real R&B artist, so stop it,

everyone.

If Dayze and Carousal want to talk about "real R&B" music and whose imitating it, and what

involves "real R&B" music, I'd suggest they do what Wittgenstein asks us to do: if you don't know

what you're talking about, it is best to keep quiet. JT certainly benefits from being a cute

white kid doing "Black" music. . .and we all know how white people love to glorify one of their

own whose doing that "Black" music (see, Presley, Elvis; Lewis, Jerry Lee; Mulligan, Gerry;

Brubeck, Dave). If those two blabber-mouths just admitted that they really don't know what

R&B music is, but they can "hear it," and that they don't really know what they are talking about

when they say "real R&B," but stated: "Justin Timberlake makes shitty music," then I wouldnt

be going ape-shit over this.

And by the way, you did what I specifically asked people not to do: list songs that they consider

to be R&B. That is not telling me what it is; you're just telling me who you think makes R&B

music! Also, what do you think "Take Back the Night" is if it isn't contemporary R&B, thus making

it "real R&B"? (no such thing)

Thanks, Cynic. Good post.

>

Yeah that was the reason I sprinkled my post with as many probably and possibly's as warranted. I'm no expert and didn't want to speak for my fellow posters. But you describe it better then I do.

duccichucka said:

CynicKill said:

Let me take a stab at it at the risk of speaking for other people.

I think what dayze and carousal actually mean when they say he doesn't do "real R&B" is that he isn't a "real R&B artist". His style of R&B is heavily pop influenced. Even songs like "Pusher Love Girl" sound R&B, but it's argueably a pop song with R&B frills.

Possibly what they mean is that if Justin were black and not white, he wouldn't be praised as the second coming and selling millions of copies of his albums and being annointed the best R&b this or that. He'd probably be ridiculed and possibly no one would care. That he's cute and white gives him all the advantages.

Describing what real R&B is is probably an exercise in subjectivity. I'd say Al Green or something like "I Wish" by Stevie Wonder would be considered "real R&B". It's hard to describe if you're not a musicologist but you know it when you hear it. Just like you know what jazz fusion is when you hear it, but try to describe it to the layperson.

Try the song "Gone". Is this a stab at R&B? It sure was touted as such when it came out. But the vocals and arrangement sream otherwise. Jodeci on the other hand I would consider real R&B. Go figure.

Thank you Cynic, for an intelligent and thoughtful post. Jeezus Christ, what does it take to

get a simple answer around here?

You're wrong. Lemme tell you why: let's say that I grant you your argument that JT (I hate

calling him that but it's a time saver), and his style is more accurately described as R&B pop.

I wouldn't bristle at that. Hear me and hear me good: you are wrong because what is R&B

music is not subjective. There are certain instruments that make up the style of R&B music.

There are rythmic motifs, e.g., claves. Contradanza. Elements from Afro-Cuban musical

stylings. Certain syncopation. Similar riff styles. Certain lyrical content (sometimes, it was

mostly sensual or sexual). And throughout its formation, R&B music has morphed into various

offshoots, one of whom is contemporary R&B music which incorporates POP. Whitney Houston,

Michael Jackson, Prince, and yes, that white boy, JT, are considered pop artists with R&B

foundations OR R&B artists with pop stylings. Either way, there is a way to talk about the

content of what R&B music is objectively.

JT has those things in his music. From claves, R&B musical/band instruments, vocal stylings,

to lyrical content. What I presented here is simplified; nobody here is a musicologist who

also understands music theory and/or songwriting and is equipped to tell me what "Real R&B"

music is. What is subjective is whether you like his music. What is not subjective is what his

music "is." I was being dramatic when I said you're wrong, because you are right on the most

important thing that is happening in this thread: we know it when we hear it. I'm guessing that

if Dayze and Carousal knew musicology and music theory, and composition like I do (kinda)

they would be able to detect the R&B stylings in JT's music, without making claims that he's an

imitator or not a real R&B artist. There is no such fucking thing as a real R&B artist, so stop it,

everyone.

If Dayze and Carousal want to talk about "real R&B" music and whose imitating it, and what

involves "real R&B" music, I'd suggest they do what Wittgenstein asks us to do: if you don't know

what you're talking about, it is best to keep quiet. JT certainly benefits from being a cute

white kid doing "Black" music. . .and we all know how white people love to glorify one of their

own whose doing that "Black" music (see, Presley, Elvis; Lewis, Jerry Lee; Mulligan, Gerry;

Brubeck, Dave). If those two blabber-mouths just admitted that they really don't know what

R&B music is, but they can "hear it," and that they don't really know what they are talking about

when they say "real R&B," but stated: "Justin Timberlake makes shitty music," then I wouldnt

be going ape-shit over this.

And by the way, you did what I specifically asked people not to do: list songs that they consider

to be R&B. That is not telling me what it is; you're just telling me who you think makes R&B

music! Also, what do you think "Take Back the Night" is if it isn't contemporary R&B, thus making

it "real R&B"? (no such thing)

Thanks, Cynic. Good post.

I'll sum it up in the words of George Clinton when he was speaking about Funk. I'm paraphrasing: "If u have 2 ask....it ain't Funk".

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

Thank you Cynic, for an intelligent and thoughtful post. Jeezus Christ, what does it take to

get a simple answer around here?

You're wrong. Lemme tell you why: let's say that I grant you your argument that JT (I hate

calling him that but it's a time saver), and his style is more accurately described as R&B pop.

I wouldn't bristle at that. Hear me and hear me good: you are wrong because what is R&B

music is not subjective. There are certain instruments that make up the style of R&B music.

There are rythmic motifs, e.g., claves. Contradanza. Elements from Afro-Cuban musical

stylings. Certain syncopation. Similar riff styles. Certain lyrical content (sometimes, it was

mostly sensual or sexual). And throughout its formation, R&B music has morphed into various

offshoots, one of whom is contemporary R&B music which incorporates POP. Whitney Houston,

Michael Jackson, Prince, and yes, that white boy, JT, are considered pop artists with R&B

foundations OR R&B artists with pop stylings. Either way, there is a way to talk about the

content of what R&B music is objectively.

JT has those things in his music. From claves, R&B musical/band instruments, vocal stylings,

to lyrical content. What I presented here is simplified; nobody here is a musicologist who

also understands music theory and/or songwriting and is equipped to tell me what "Real R&B"

music is. What is subjective is whether you like his music. What is not subjective is what his

music "is." I was being dramatic when I said you're wrong, because you are right on the most

important thing that is happening in this thread: we know it when we hear it. I'm guessing that

if Dayze and Carousal knew musicology and music theory, and composition like I do (kinda)

they would be able to detect the R&B stylings in JT's music, without making claims that he's an

imitator or not a real R&B artist. There is no such fucking thing as a real R&B artist, so stop it,

everyone.

If Dayze and Carousal want to talk about "real R&B" music and whose imitating it, and what

involves "real R&B" music, I'd suggest they do what Wittgenstein asks us to do: if you don't know

what you're talking about, it is best to keep quiet. JT certainly benefits from being a cute

white kid doing "Black" music. . .and we all know how white people love to glorify one of their

own whose doing that "Black" music (see, Presley, Elvis; Lewis, Jerry Lee; Mulligan, Gerry;

Brubeck, Dave). If those two blabber-mouths just admitted that they really don't know what

R&B music is, but they can "hear it," and that they don't really know what they are talking about

when they say "real R&B," but stated: "Justin Timberlake makes shitty music," then I wouldnt

be going ape-shit over this.

And by the way, you did what I specifically asked people not to do: list songs that they consider

to be R&B. That is not telling me what it is; you're just telling me who you think makes R&B

music! Also, what do you think "Take Back the Night" is if it isn't contemporary R&B, thus making

it "real R&B"? (no such thing)

Thanks, Cynic. Good post.

I'll sum it up in the words of George Clinton when he was speaking about Funk. I'm paraphrasing: "If u have 2 ask....it ain't Funk".

That about sums it up. LOL

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

Thank you Cynic, for an intelligent and thoughtful post. Jeezus Christ, what does it take to

get a simple answer around here?

You're wrong. Lemme tell you why: let's say that I grant you your argument that JT (I hate

calling him that but it's a time saver), and his style is more accurately described as R&B pop.

I wouldn't bristle at that. Hear me and hear me good: you are wrong because what is R&B

music is not subjective. There are certain instruments that make up the style of R&B music.

There are rythmic motifs, e.g., claves. Contradanza. Elements from Afro-Cuban musical

stylings. Certain syncopation. Similar riff styles. Certain lyrical content (sometimes, it was

mostly sensual or sexual). And throughout its formation, R&B music has morphed into various

offshoots, one of whom is contemporary R&B music which incorporates POP. Whitney Houston,

Michael Jackson, Prince, and yes, that white boy, JT, are considered pop artists with R&B

foundations OR R&B artists with pop stylings. Either way, there is a way to talk about the

content of what R&B music is objectively.

JT has those things in his music. From claves, R&B musical/band instruments, vocal stylings,

to lyrical content. What I presented here is simplified; nobody here is a musicologist who

also understands music theory and/or songwriting and is equipped to tell me what "Real R&B"

music is. What is subjective is whether you like his music. What is not subjective is what his

music "is." I was being dramatic when I said you're wrong, because you are right on the most

important thing that is happening in this thread: we know it when we hear it. I'm guessing that

if Dayze and Carousal knew musicology and music theory, and composition like I do (kinda)

they would be able to detect the R&B stylings in JT's music, without making claims that he's an

imitator or not a real R&B artist. There is no such fucking thing as a real R&B artist, so stop it,

everyone.

If Dayze and Carousal want to talk about "real R&B" music and whose imitating it, and what

involves "real R&B" music, I'd suggest they do what Wittgenstein asks us to do: if you don't know

what you're talking about, it is best to keep quiet. JT certainly benefits from being a cute

white kid doing "Black" music. . .and we all know how white people love to glorify one of their

own whose doing that "Black" music (see, Presley, Elvis; Lewis, Jerry Lee; Mulligan, Gerry;

Brubeck, Dave). If those two blabber-mouths just admitted that they really don't know what

R&B music is, but they can "hear it," and that they don't really know what they are talking about

when they say "real R&B," but stated: "Justin Timberlake makes shitty music," then I wouldnt

be going ape-shit over this.

And by the way, you did what I specifically asked people not to do: list songs that they consider

to be R&B. That is not telling me what it is; you're just telling me who you think makes R&B

music! Also, what do you think "Take Back the Night" is if it isn't contemporary R&B, thus making

it "real R&B"? (no such thing)

Thanks, Cynic. Good post.

I'll sum it up in the words of George Clinton when he was speaking about Funk. I'm paraphrasing: "If u have 2 ask....it ain't Funk".

Great Summation! LOL

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

Thank you Cynic, for an intelligent and thoughtful post. Jeezus Christ, what does it take to

get a simple answer around here?

You're wrong. Lemme tell you why: let's say that I grant you your argument that JT (I hate

calling him that but it's a time saver), and his style is more accurately described as R&B pop.

I wouldn't bristle at that. Hear me and hear me good: you are wrong because what is R&B

music is not subjective. There are certain instruments that make up the style of R&B music.

There are rythmic motifs, e.g., claves. Contradanza. Elements from Afro-Cuban musical

stylings. Certain syncopation. Similar riff styles. Certain lyrical content (sometimes, it was

mostly sensual or sexual). And throughout its formation, R&B music has morphed into various

offshoots, one of whom is contemporary R&B music which incorporates POP. Whitney Houston,

Michael Jackson, Prince, and yes, that white boy, JT, are considered pop artists with R&B

foundations OR R&B artists with pop stylings. Either way, there is a way to talk about the

content of what R&B music is objectively.

JT has those things in his music. From claves, R&B musical/band instruments, vocal stylings,

to lyrical content. What I presented here is simplified; nobody here is a musicologist who

also understands music theory and/or songwriting and is equipped to tell me what "Real R&B"

music is. What is subjective is whether you like his music. What is not subjective is what his

music "is." I was being dramatic when I said you're wrong, because you are right on the most

important thing that is happening in this thread: we know it when we hear it. I'm guessing that

if Dayze and Carousal knew musicology and music theory, and composition like I do (kinda)

they would be able to detect the R&B stylings in JT's music, without making claims that he's an

imitator or not a real R&B artist. There is no such fucking thing as a real R&B artist, so stop it,

everyone.

If Dayze and Carousal want to talk about "real R&B" music and whose imitating it, and what

involves "real R&B" music, I'd suggest they do what Wittgenstein asks us to do: if you don't know

what you're talking about, it is best to keep quiet. JT certainly benefits from being a cute

white kid doing "Black" music. . .and we all know how white people love to glorify one of their

own whose doing that "Black" music (see, Presley, Elvis; Lewis, Jerry Lee; Mulligan, Gerry;

Brubeck, Dave). If those two blabber-mouths just admitted that they really don't know what

R&B music is, but they can "hear it," and that they don't really know what they are talking about

when they say "real R&B," but stated: "Justin Timberlake makes shitty music," then I wouldnt

be going ape-shit over this.

And by the way, you did what I specifically asked people not to do: list songs that they consider

to be R&B. That is not telling me what it is; you're just telling me who you think makes R&B

music! Also, what do you think "Take Back the Night" is if it isn't contemporary R&B, thus making

it "real R&B"? (no such thing)

Thanks, Cynic. Good post.

I'll sum it up in the words of George Clinton when he was speaking about Funk. I'm paraphrasing: "If u have 2 ask....it ain't Funk".

What George Clinton said is fucking stupid; there's a way to describe "funk." What George

Clinton really is saying is that he hasn't the slightest idea of the musical conventions he's

exhibiting when he's playing funk music.

That's like saying "I don't know how to spell my name, but I know it when I hear it, so there!"

Um, wouldn't you like to know how to spell your name, other than knowing how to say it?
So yeah, y'all believe in that Clinton quip if you want, but stupid you'll remain.

CynicKill said:

duccichucka said:

Thank you Cynic, for an intelligent and thoughtful post. Jeezus Christ, what does it take to

get a simple answer around here?

You're wrong. Lemme tell you why: let's say that I grant you your argument that JT (I hate

calling him that but it's a time saver), and his style is more accurately described as R&B pop.

I wouldn't bristle at that. Hear me and hear me good: you are wrong because what is R&B

music is not subjective. There are certain instruments that make up the style of R&B music.

There are rythmic motifs, e.g., claves. Contradanza. Elements from Afro-Cuban musical

stylings. Certain syncopation. Similar riff styles. Certain lyrical content (sometimes, it was

mostly sensual or sexual). And throughout its formation, R&B music has morphed into various

offshoots, one of whom is contemporary R&B music which incorporates POP. Whitney Houston,

Michael Jackson, Prince, and yes, that white boy, JT, are considered pop artists with R&B

foundations OR R&B artists with pop stylings. Either way, there is a way to talk about the

content of what R&B music is objectively.

JT has those things in his music. From claves, R&B musical/band instruments, vocal stylings,

to lyrical content. What I presented here is simplified; nobody here is a musicologist who

also understands music theory and/or songwriting and is equipped to tell me what "Real R&B"

music is. What is subjective is whether you like his music. What is not subjective is what his

music "is." I was being dramatic when I said you're wrong, because you are right on the most

important thing that is happening in this thread: we know it when we hear it. I'm guessing that

if Dayze and Carousal knew musicology and music theory, and composition like I do (kinda)

they would be able to detect the R&B stylings in JT's music, without making claims that he's an

imitator or not a real R&B artist. There is no such fucking thing as a real R&B artist, so stop it,

everyone.

If Dayze and Carousal want to talk about "real R&B" music and whose imitating it, and what

involves "real R&B" music, I'd suggest they do what Wittgenstein asks us to do: if you don't know

what you're talking about, it is best to keep quiet. JT certainly benefits from being a cute

white kid doing "Black" music. . .and we all know how white people love to glorify one of their

own whose doing that "Black" music (see, Presley, Elvis; Lewis, Jerry Lee; Mulligan, Gerry;

Brubeck, Dave). If those two blabber-mouths just admitted that they really don't know what

R&B music is, but they can "hear it," and that they don't really know what they are talking about

when they say "real R&B," but stated: "Justin Timberlake makes shitty music," then I wouldnt

be going ape-shit over this.

And by the way, you did what I specifically asked people not to do: list songs that they consider

to be R&B. That is not telling me what it is; you're just telling me who you think makes R&B

music! Also, what do you think "Take Back the Night" is if it isn't contemporary R&B, thus making

it "real R&B"? (no such thing)

Thanks, Cynic. Good post.

>

Yeah that was the reason I sprinkled my post with as many probably and possibly's as warranted. I'm no expert and didn't want to speak for my fellow posters. But you describe it better then I do.

Do you think "Take Back The Night" is an R&B song?

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

I'll sum it up in the words of George Clinton when he was speaking about Funk. I'm paraphrasing: "If u have 2 ask....it ain't Funk".

Great Summation! LOL

No it's not, for reasons I've already explained. Knowing how to describe what you're doing

means that you really know what you're doing.

The summation here is that you and Dayze have no idea what you're talking about when you

criticize JT for being poor imitation R&B. The reason why I went to the lengths I did to show

everyone that you didn't have the ability to explain your opinion in an intelligent way other than

insisting you had the right to the opinion, is because the two of act as if your opinion in this

forum is the hot shit, when really, you two are just as ig'nent as everyone else. And you'd probably

benefit from recruiting Cynic to your cause.

So, you two have been outted as the dimwits I thought you were. The both of you are sound and

fury, signifying nothing.

duccichucka said:

mjscarousal said:

Great Summation! LOL

No it's not, for reasons I've already explained. Knowing how to describe what you're doing

means that you really know what you're doing.

The summation here is that you and Dayze have no idea what you're talking about when you

criticize JT for being poor imitation R&B. The reason why I went to the lengths I did to show

everyone that you didn't have the ability to explain your opinion in an intelligent way other than

insisting you had the right to the opinion, is because the two of act as if your opinion in this

forum is the hot shit, when really, you two are just as ig'nent as everyone else. And you'd probably

benefit from recruiting Cynic to your cause.

So, you two have been outted as the dimwits I thought you were. The both of you are sound and

fury, signifying nothing.

Ohh lawrd...........

[Edited 9/14/14 7:57am]

"Take Back The Night" I will concede is a R&B song. It borders on being commercial to the point of sounding almost like a jingle, but that's an arguement that can be made of other songs out as well.

CynicKill said:

"Take Back The Night" I will concede is a R&B song. It borders on being commercial to the point of sounding almost like a jingle, but that's an arguement that can be made of other songs out as well.

No argument here. "Take Back the Night" is an example of contemporary R&B, which means

it's compositional structure is R&B with pop sensibilities, and an example of Justin Timberlake

doing R&B, and doing it well.

Hell, he even starts The 20/20 Experience off with an R&B song, which is straight outta Sunday

school down home.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

No it's not, for reasons I've already explained. Knowing how to describe what you're doing

means that you really know what you're doing.

The summation here is that you and Dayze have no idea what you're talking about when you

criticize JT for being poor imitation R&B. The reason why I went to the lengths I did to show

everyone that you didn't have the ability to explain your opinion in an intelligent way other than

insisting you had the right to the opinion, is because the two of act as if your opinion in this

forum is the hot shit, when really, you two are just as ig'nent as everyone else. And you'd probably

benefit from recruiting Cynic to your cause.

So, you two have been outted as the dimwits I thought you were. The both of you are sound and

fury, signifying nothing.

Ohh lawrd...........

[Edited 9/14/14 7:57am]

Why are you invoking the Lord here? Jesus has nothing to do with this topic. And he sure as

hell don't like stupid.

'Though I heard he's plenty of pity.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

No it's not, for reasons I've already explained. Knowing how to describe what you're doing

means that you really know what you're doing.

The summation here is that you and Dayze have no idea what you're talking about when you

criticize JT for being poor imitation R&B. The reason why I went to the lengths I did to show

everyone that you didn't have the ability to explain your opinion in an intelligent way other than

insisting you had the right to the opinion, is because the two of act as if your opinion in this

forum is the hot shit, when really, you two are just as ig'nent as everyone else. And you'd probably

benefit from recruiting Cynic to your cause.

So, you two have been outted as the dimwits I thought you were. The both of you are sound and

fury, signifying nothing.

Ohh lawrd...........

[Edited 9/14/14 7:57am]

Am I the only one starting to think that Timberlake has an account on the Org and HE is the one that keeps up the venom and insults? Might be highy likely.

SeventeenDayze said:

Graycap23 said:

Ohh lawrd...........

[Edited 9/14/14 7:57am]

Am I the only one starting to think that Timberlake has an account on the Org and HE is the one that keeps up the venom and insults? Might be highy likely.

Either that or they are either A) smoking to much or B) crazy as hell.