mancabdriver said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Even though it wasn't a ballad per se, what did you think about Man in the Mirror? I think the Bad album was probably where his best ballads were (I Just Can't Stop Loving You). I think some of his mid-tempo stuff on Invincible was good. What do you think? Do you think he was a megastar more for his stage presence and dance moves?

To a certain extent I agree with this.

I can understand why people love 'man in the mirror' it is a well written and perfectly sung track. But I just don't feel a connection with it.

Perhaps if people didn't over play his music or hail him as the second coming I would have a far more objective opinion on his music and maybe appreciate it for what it is rather than be distracted by the hype.

But overall I dislike the production of ‘Bad’. The backing vocals on ‘the way you make me feel’ are the epitome of cheese.

Yeah, I can understand why his constant media presence might have irritated you to no end. Maybe that's part of the reason he took such a long break between Thriller and Bad, perhaps he was tired of it all himself...I think Bad was ahead of it's time, or maybe it's just that so many artists these days copy Bad's formula. The worst offender of this is Chris Brown.

SeventeenDayze said:

TD3 said:

Its obvious you can't take it when others don't share your point of view. Its a difference of opinion, no more or no less. No one has called you stupid for your admiration of Ms. Jacksos entertaiment career, but its a word you've used. Again, how old are we? Because your reaction has been way over the top; more like a petulant child who stomps up and down because everyone doesn't agree with you.

==========================================

[Edited 7/28/14 8:33am]

Surely, I can't be the only one who was thoroughly entertained by Seanman's response. Please don't discourage people from being candid about their opinions! Besides, there are plenty worse posts by others on the Org

Oh and Seanman is right about the Janet references online. I was on Instagram yesterday and saw a reference, so it's not like she still isn't making an impact on some level.

Don't put put words in my mouth., that's not what I wrote. Did I change your mind about Jackson? No. Did you change mined? No. Guess what? I'm sure we will agree and agree to disagree about numerous topics.

neko said:

No, which Janet Jackson album is better than Don't Be Cruel?

Is this a joke? Just listen to THE VELVET ROPE and work your way back to CONTROL. There you have it.

[Edited 7/28/14 14:08pm]

nextedition said:

neko said:

But they didn't just not have *it* they had the anti-*it* actively working against them being good. They would have needed to be produced by Jesus to get into the positive.

Janet had everything possible around her set up to make the most of her modest talents. That's my conclusion from reading this thread. Some nice gifs and some minor artists less famous than her saying they looked up to her do not change that. Britney copying your dance move or Zack Morris having a poster of you on his fictional bedroom wall doesn't make someone good.

If you only read the negative posts, than yes, that's the conclusion

Bingo. This "neko" person is clearly being obnoxious for obnoxious's sake. I've said it before but it bears repeating. Anytime someone asks which Janet Jackson album is better than Bobby Brown's DON'T BE CRUEL, then you know not to take anything they say seriously .

neko said:

WatchThemFall said:

Janet had star quality and magnetism. Like others have said in this thread, they couldn't make a star of LaToya or Rebbie, because they didn't have *it*.

But they didn't just not have *it* they had the anti-*it* actively working against them being good. They would have needed to be produced by Jesus to get into the positive.

Janet had everything possible around her set up to make the most of her modest talents. That's my conclusion from reading this thread. Some nice gifs and some minor artists less famous than her saying they looked up to her do not change that. Britney copying your dance move or Zack Morris having a poster of you on his fictional bedroom wall doesn't make someone good.

Being "good" is subjective, but when you've achieved everything that Janet has achieved in her long career, then chances are that more people lean on the side of "she is good" than not. And about those artists you mentioned--most of them that I named, posted pics/gifs of, have made up the bulk of the pop music landscape for the past 20 some-odd years, and the fact that they've all given props to her in one way or another is a testament to the fact that she is, using your word, "good". In other words, you're in the minority.

mjscarousal said:

VoicesCarry said:

Counter-point to the OP:

Control

Janet Jackson's Rhythym Nation 1814

janet.

The Velvet Rope

All ace albums. All R&B classics. There's really no argument to be made about their status or acclaim, which have effectively sealed her legacy. (Which, by the way, far exceeds anything Bobby Brown has ever accomplished in his rather limited career, so not sure why that comparison was made).

And the Janet-only-had-a-music-career-because-of-her-last-name point is, quite frankly, lame as fuck. If it was so easy, then it would have worked for Jermaine, La Toya, etc.

The bottom line is it was probably much harder for Janet to distinguish herself from her brother, and yet she established herself as a powerhouse artist and star in her own right. That takes talent, guts and hustle, and I have no doubt she had to work her ass off for it. Kudos to her - I have mad respect for that.

Bottom line. She is an Icon whether people like her or not. She has the albums, tours, influence, and performances to back it up. Currently, she is underrated.

SeventeenDayze said:

TD3 said:

Its obvious you can't take it when others don't share your point of view. Its a difference of opinion, no more or no less. No one has called you stupid for your admiration of Ms. Jacksos entertaiment career, but its a word you've used. Again, how old are we? Because your reaction has been way over the top; more like a petulant child who stomps up and down because everyone doesn't agree with you.

==========================================

[Edited 7/28/14 8:33am]

Surely, I can't be the only one who was thoroughly entertained by Seanman's response. Please don't discourage people from being candid about their opinions! Besides, there are plenty worse posts by others on the Org

Oh and Seanman is right about the Janet references online. I was on Instagram yesterday and saw a reference, so it's not like she still isn't making an impact on some level.

Glad you enjoyed the post! The naysayers (and trolls) are actually encouraging . And yeah, those online references about her return are all over the place.

nextedition said:

It's very simple: if it was only her last name, latoya would have been a big star, but she wasn't If it only was jam&lewis, cherelle & co would have been big stars, but they weren't You can have a hit without any talent, but not a career like janet. You may not like her, but saying she doesn't have talent is just lame. You're not gonna have that much succes without talent. Her voice might not be that strong but the way she sang Nasty, rhythm nation etc. only she could. She has the voice for this kind of dance music. It blends in with the beat.

Good points indeed. Like I said, you cannot coast on a decades-long career on the strength of being someone's sister. It just doesn't work that way. Just about every big '80s singer named by various people in this thread had lots of help in becoming what they would eventually become (MJ had Rod Temperton and Quincy, Whitney had Clive as a Svengali-esque figure in her career and barely wrote one note on any of her songs, Madonna has been notorious for ripping off various artists who came before her to create her image, and had major help in creating her songs--she even got into a rift with Stephen Bray for attempting to take more credit than she should have). Janet had Jimmy, Terry, and Paula Abdul (who is no where NEAR the influential artist that Janet is). Arguing that she was the only artist who "needed people" is foolish.

alphastreet said:

Still love her but not obsessed as when a kid. She was never bigger than mj, prince, Madonna though very popular in the 90s. Fans who tell you that were not living outside the us in the 80s or are young. Or they're liars. And they forget other talents like Jody and other artists around same time as Janet, to build her up. Also, Paula was someone before Janet too, choreographing victory and the laker girls. Janet paved the way for her music, which I'm sorry to say is more remembered and still gets more airplay. Janet's airplay is once in a blue moon here though she's still cool and inspired many. We can still like her without sugar coating. Most people can tell you a song by the big 3 but Janet takes longer depending on where in the world you live. I do wish Janet got more props and she works well with what she offers skills wise, but clearly lost interest in the industry which is why her output has suffered. I used to keep saying she should write for others or mentor, but she's better off acting now though she's alright at it, was better at it as a kid Lol @ a grown man playing black cat. It is a good song though but forgotten by the public, never once heard it on the radio. I would support a new album but I'm not losing sleep, cause she did what she does well with nothing left to prove and if she's retired I support it. I think number ones tour was a farewell tour and that's alright with me. [Edited 7/28/14 3:05am] [Edited 7/28/14 3:08am]

Jody Watley, for as gifted an artist as she is, did not help "build Janet up". Her debut solo album, as well as debuts from Vanessa Williams, Nia Peeples, Karyn White, Pebbles and Paula Abdul, were put out as a direct ripple effect of the success that CONTROL achieved. Jody would have likely released an album at some point anyway, but the success of CONTROL helped make that album happen sooner than later. And I don't know where you live, but Janet is very often heard on various 80s/90s/today radio formats where I am, and she is a staple on Quiet Storm and R&B formats. Hell, I even hear her songs in the supermarket and in department stores. No offense, but maybe you should change your dial every once in a while

I was so convinced that this would be a comeback hit:

>

But alas it wasn't.

I also liked this one:

>

But dammit everyone slept on it!

CynicKill said:

I was so convinced that this would be a comeback hit:

>

But alas it wasn't.

I also liked this one:

>

But dammit everyone slept on it!

"Feedback" actually had a pretty good trajectory going, but LA Reid royally fucked her by stopping all promotion on it and DISCIPLINE to promote Mariah's MC=2 Squared or whatever the hell it was called . A shame, because Janet had high hopes about LA and Def Jam. Even MTV was coming around by that point, which was probably how the song ended up making the top 20. As for "Rock With U", which was a killer club jam, I'm convinced it was just a matter of the song being too ahead of its time, because it was only a matter of 3 or 4 years later when everyone from Usher to NeYo was doing that type of Euro-dance music.

[Edited 7/28/14 14:40pm]

SeventeenDayze said:

TD3 said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Surely, I can't be the only one who was thoroughly entertained by Seanman's response. Please don't discourage people from being candid about their opinions! Besides, there are plenty worse posts by others on the Org

Oh and Seanman is right about the Janet references online. I was on Instagram yesterday and saw a reference, so it's not like she still isn't making an impact on some level.

Don't put put words in my mouth., that's not what I wrote. Did I change your mind about Jackson? No. Did you change mined? No. Guess what? I'm sure we will agree and agree to disagree about numerous topics.

Based on what you wrote, it sure sounded that way. Seanman was being very candid and it seemed you were saying that perhaps because you disagreed maybe? That's all I was saying so just chill.

MotownSubdivision said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Yeah, I can understand why his constant media presence might have irritated you to no end. Maybe that's part of the reason he took such a long break between Thriller and Bad, perhaps he was tired of it all himself...I think Bad was ahead of it's time, or maybe it's just that so many artists these days copy Bad's formula. The worst offender of this is Chris Brown.

I'm sorry for misunderstanding but what exactly would you say is Bad's formula and how do artists today try to copy said formula?

I meant how that album made it kinda cool to have overpowering music with minimal vocals BUT of course MJ changed it up from song to song. But these days, they all have music that drowns them out and just a small/weak voice in the background of it all. Listen to "Fine China" by Chris Brown for a clear example of this. I brought it up because you said something about the Bad album being cheesy

SEANMAN said:

CynicKill said:

I was so convinced that this would be a comeback hit:

>

But alas it wasn't.

I also liked this one:

>

But dammit everyone slept on it!

"Feedback" actually had a pretty good trajectory going, but LA Reid royally fucked her by stopping all promotion on it and DISCIPLINE to promote Mariah's MC=2 Squared or whatever the hell it was called . A shame, because Janet had high hopes about LA and Def Jam. Even MTV was coming around by that point, which was probably how the song ended up making the top 20. As for "Rock With U", which was a killer club jam, I'm convinced it was just a matter of the song being too ahead of its time, because it was only a matter of 3 or 4 years later when everyone from Usher to NeYo was doing that type of Euro-dance music.

[Edited 7/28/14 14:40pm]

Feedback was a cool song. It got heavy rotation where I was living when it was released. But, it does seem that Discipline was under-promoted.

1contessa said:

Janet's vocals weren't all that strong and good, but I'll give her one thing, she could dance! Her dancing rivaled that of her brother Michael. I love the duet dancing she and Michael did in Scream. Now as for Latoya, that's a different story. Latoya looks and talks like Michael, but that's where the similarities end. I feel sorry for her, still trying to make music and perform, it's so embarrassing!

I agree.

SeventeenDayze said:

MotownSubdivision said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I meant how that album made it kinda cool to have overpowering music with minimal vocals BUT of course MJ changed it up from song to song. But these days, they all have music that drowns them out and just a small/weak voice in the background of it all. Listen to "Fine China" by Chris Brown for a clear example of this. I brought it up because you said something about the Bad album being cheesy

You must have me confused with someone else. I never said Bad was cheesy.

Oops sorry, I think I read someone else's comment and replied to yours by mistake Sorry about that! I thought I was replying to Mancabdriver.

[Edited 7/28/14 17:25pm]

SeventeenDayze said:

MotownSubdivision said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Oops sorry, I think I read someone else's comment and replied to yours by mistake Sorry about that! I thought I was replying to Mancabdriver.

[Edited 7/28/14 17:25pm]

It's all good! I see what you mean about the Bad formula though I thought you were speaking more so in terms of the theme, setup, or the music itself.

Yeah the theme, setup and music are also part of the convo. Look at Bieber and Beyonce, they take everything out of the Michael Jackson playbook. This also includes Usher as well. They just Xerox anything and everything MJ and then have the nerve to pretend like they are the next coming of MJ. What is especially irritating about this is that someone like Janet, as someone else said earlier, isn't an artist who needed "people" to make her. I think Janet's level of talent and determination really made her what she is. The other wannabes that I have mentioned in this reply need a lot of smoke and mirrors for people to notice, "By the way, they are singers, too". LOL

[Edited 7/28/14 17:52pm]

SEANMAN said:

alphastreet said:

Still love her but not obsessed as when a kid. She was never bigger than mj, prince, Madonna though very popular in the 90s. Fans who tell you that were not living outside the us in the 80s or are young. Or they're liars. And they forget other talents like Jody and other artists around same time as Janet, to build her up. Also, Paula was someone before Janet too, choreographing victory and the laker girls. Janet paved the way for her music, which I'm sorry to say is more remembered and still gets more airplay. Janet's airplay is once in a blue moon here though she's still cool and inspired many. We can still like her without sugar coating. Most people can tell you a song by the big 3 but Janet takes longer depending on where in the world you live. I do wish Janet got more props and she works well with what she offers skills wise, but clearly lost interest in the industry which is why her output has suffered. I used to keep saying she should write for others or mentor, but she's better off acting now though she's alright at it, was better at it as a kid Lol @ a grown man playing black cat. It is a good song though but forgotten by the public, never once heard it on the radio. I would support a new album but I'm not losing sleep, cause she did what she does well with nothing left to prove and if she's retired I support it. I think number ones tour was a farewell tour and that's alright with me. [Edited 7/28/14 3:05am] [Edited 7/28/14 3:08am]

Jody Watley, for as gifted an artist as she is, did not help "build Janet up". Her debut solo album, as well as debuts from Vanessa Williams, Nia Peeples, Karyn White, Pebbles and Paula Abdul, were put out as a direct ripple effect of the success that CONTROL achieved. Jody would have likely released an album at some point anyway, but the success of CONTROL helped make that album happen sooner than later. And I don't know where you live, but Janet is very often heard on various 80s/90s/today radio formats where I am, and she is a staple on Quiet Storm and R&B formats. Hell, I even hear her songs in the supermarket and in department stores. No offense, but maybe you should change your dial every once in a while

eeeexactly

SEANMAN said:

alphastreet said:

Still love her but not obsessed as when a kid. She was never bigger than mj, prince, Madonna though very popular in the 90s. Fans who tell you that were not living outside the us in the 80s or are young. Or they're liars. And they forget other talents like Jody and other artists around same time as Janet, to build her up. Also, Paula was someone before Janet too, choreographing victory and the laker girls. Janet paved the way for her music, which I'm sorry to say is more remembered and still gets more airplay. Janet's airplay is once in a blue moon here though she's still cool and inspired many. We can still like her without sugar coating. Most people can tell you a song by the big 3 but Janet takes longer depending on where in the world you live. I do wish Janet got more props and she works well with what she offers skills wise, but clearly lost interest in the industry which is why her output has suffered. I used to keep saying she should write for others or mentor, but she's better off acting now though she's alright at it, was better at it as a kid Lol @ a grown man playing black cat. It is a good song though but forgotten by the public, never once heard it on the radio. I would support a new album but I'm not losing sleep, cause she did what she does well with nothing left to prove and if she's retired I support it. I think number ones tour was a farewell tour and that's alright with me. [Edited 7/28/14 3:05am] [Edited 7/28/14 3:08am]

Jody Watley, for as gifted an artist as she is, did not help "build Janet up". Her debut solo album, as well as debuts from Vanessa Williams, Nia Peeples, Karyn White, Pebbles and Paula Abdul, were put out as a direct ripple effect of the success that CONTROL achieved. Jody would have likely released an album at some point anyway, but the success of CONTROL helped make that album happen sooner than later. And I don't know where you live, but Janet is very often heard on various 80s/90s/today radio formats where I am, and she is a staple on Quiet Storm and R&B formats. Hell, I even hear her songs in the supermarket and in department stores. No offense, but maybe you should change your dial every once in a while

I never once said jody built her up although paula abdul had a hand in her choreography in the beginning. I simply meant other artists did similar work before her run and during her run, and yes the Control formula worked too, it's all in the mix. It doesn't make her lesser than them,or greater than them, that's subjective, everyone has their preferences for who they like, and as many have said on this board over the years, she was popular with Control and RN but became an international star in the 90's with janet, and maintained that over the next decade well. And to say she was not as big as mj, madonna and prince, very few made it to that level popularity wise anyways, it's no big deal, and there are also many that can give them a run for their money at times too. As I've mentioned many times on this board, I grew up on mj and madonna but was feeling janet more for some time cause she was more relatable at one point, and putting out one good record after the next, but her popularity level was not even close though it was great for what it was and I hope she gets the props she deserves.

And what's this about changing dials? I don't live in america, janet does get airplay here, but she doesn't get enough. I hear her 80's classics once in a blue moon now compared to the 90's, I'm more likely to hear all for you and together again sometimes. You're just going to have to think outside your box and realize everyone isn't big the same way everywhere, and that's ok. What your favourite artist means to you on a personal level or for your own taste is more important anyways. Having said that, I do wish I could hear her more often again. It was nice hearing that's the way love goes back in the 90's

[Edited 7/28/14 18:18pm]

Janet was just Michael's spinoff. Her albums were simply the intermission periods in between his.

Qazz said:

Janet was just Michael's spinoff. Her albums were simply the intermission periods in between his.

Yeah, sure. THE VELVET ROPE was an INVINCIBLE intermission. Surely you jest. GTFO with that bull ish.

Scorp said:

SEANMAN said:

Jody Watley, for as gifted an artist as she is, did not help "build Janet up". Her debut solo album, as well as debuts from Vanessa Williams, Nia Peeples, Karyn White, Pebbles and Paula Abdul, were put out as a direct ripple effect of the success that CONTROL achieved. Jody would have likely released an album at some point anyway, but the success of CONTROL helped make that album happen sooner than later. And I don't know where you live, but Janet is very often heard on various 80s/90s/today radio formats where I am, and she is a staple on Quiet Storm and R&B formats. Hell, I even hear her songs in the supermarket and in department stores. No offense, but maybe you should change your dial every once in a while

eeeexactly

SeventeenDayze said:

MotownSubdivision said:

SeventeenDayze said: It's all good! I see what you mean about the Bad formula though I thought you were speaking more so in terms of the theme, setup, or the music itself.

What is especially irritating about this is that someone like Janet, as someone else said earlier, isn't an artist who needed "people" to make her. I think Janet's level of talent and determination really made her what she is. The other wannabes that I have mentioned in this reply need a lot of smoke and mirrors for people to notice, "By the way, they are singers, too". LOL

SPEAK IT!

daingermouz2020 said:

Real Talk:


Janet ain't shit without Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis. Take their production away, & Janet "Don't Stand Another Chance".

Have a nice day.