Scorp said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I remember seeing a film clip of a fan who said that the song Black Cat kept her from committing suicide. I think that's pretty amazing and I agree with you, there hasn't been a female pop star who has put anything that's even remotely socially conscious as Janet.

exactly....

it's not even close.....RHYTHM NATION 1814 is to Janet what WHAT'S GOING ON was to Marvin Gaye...

when she unleashed that record, she caught the entire industry off guard as it did not want socially conscious records presented on the landscape

I was so proud of her for making that great contribution

she laid it on the line for sure...

even her brother Michael was astonished

personally, I think she is retired......

the current day industry ditches recording artists when they start reaching their late 30s

Yeah I think Janet had her "fun" music and she also had the socially conscious music as well. Other female pop acts since then haven't done anything remotely close to that. Mariah certainly didn't. No one in the 2000s through today has. They all sing about unicorns, lollipops and an ambiguous "girl power" that just talks about generic "girls run the world" BS but then have an image that completely contradicts that. I also agree that the industry isn't kind to folks that are inching towards 40. The irony of this is that the ones calling the shots in the industry tend to be old, fat guys

mancabdriver said:

That's exactly how I feel about Michael Jackson.

Other than 'lady in my life' (which is my absolute favourite song but him by a LONNNNG shot) I don't think the dude ever did a convincing love song.

I just could not relate to him and found 85% of his output cheesy or recyled to what he did 10 years before.

He was the kind of artist you were forced to listen to by your parents when you were small because you didn't know any better and so have a nostalgic connection with his music.

But that's just my opinion. The world would be a boring place if we all agreed on the same thing

Even though it wasn't a ballad per se, what did you think about Man in the Mirror? I think the Bad album was probably where his best ballads were (I Just Can't Stop Loving You). I think some of his mid-tempo stuff on Invincible was good. What do you think? Do you think he was a megastar more for his stage presence and dance moves?

TD3 said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Do you think her acting is okay or are you talking about both her acting and music career?

No talent, on both sides. Janet's voice is razor thin and its not suited for singing nor acting. I would like to know if she ever did a concert without lip singing, I doubt it. One of those countless chicks for-which the video era propelled a career... style versus substance. You can thank Jimmy/Terry also because their music camouflage Jackson's thin voice. (IMHO)

Yeah a lot of artists these days use that Jam/Lewis formula of having overbearing music drowning out the vocals. I think it's industry standard now, unfortunately

Counter-point to the OP:

Control

Janet Jackson's Rhythym Nation 1814

janet.

The Velvet Rope

All ace albums. All R&B classics. There's really no argument to be made about their status or acclaim, which have effectively sealed her legacy. (Which, by the way, far exceeds anything Bobby Brown has ever accomplished in his rather limited career, so not sure why that comparison was made).

And the Janet-only-had-a-music-career-because-of-her-last-name point is, quite frankly, lame as fuck. If it was so easy, then it would have worked for Jermaine, La Toya, etc.

The bottom line is it was probably much harder for Janet to distinguish herself from her brother, and yet she established herself as a powerhouse artist and star in her own right. That takes talent, guts and hustle, and I have no doubt she had to work her ass off for it. Kudos to her - I have mad respect for that.

It hilarious that Black Cat is getting props, thats one of the worse songs in her discography.

i love control and Rhythm Nation, and almost love Janet.

.

For me, the mystery (which goes double for Phil Collins) is how could someone be so successful, and then so forgotten. Outside of the hardcore (they'll chime in soon), and the gays (that's me), I really don't see a lot of love, nostalgia, or even thought put into Janet.

.

Which is odd, because she was HUGE. And I don't think it's the Superbowl. Madonna was as controversial, much more often, and we she's still very much around (unfortunately) .

.

Janet is just...gone. Like, redundant. I'd compare her to Tina Turner (retired), but Tina seems much more iconic and valued. Probably because she has the Ike narrative to give context.

.

As weird as I think it is, for Phil Collins it's worse. That guy's a joke (for some reason), but I read that's he's actually the 3rd best selling solo artist of all time...?

lazycrockett said:

It hilarious that Black Cat is getting props, thats one of the worse songs in her discography.

Agreed. That song is awful, awful, below kitsch, shrill and "metal" in all the wrong ways.

lazycrockett said:

It hilarious that Black Cat is getting props, thats one of the worse songs in her discography.

No one gave the song props we were saying that a fan said the song kept her from committing suicide. Then, we said it was a socially-conscious song. That would suggest that you would have to read the lyrics, which I doubt you even paid attention to the lyrics. Then again, your screen name is "Lazy" Crockett after all.

Mintchip said:

i love control and Rhythm Nation, and almost love Janet.

.

For me, the mystery (which goes double for Phil Collins) is how could someone be so successful, and then so forgotten. Outside of the hardcore (they'll chime in soon), and the gays (that's me), I really don't see a lot of love, nostalgia, or even thought put into Janet.

.

Which is odd, because she was HUGE. And I don't think it's the Superbowl. Madonna was as controversial, much more often, and we she's still very much around (unfortunately) .

.

Janet is just...gone. Like, redundant. I'd compare her to Tina Turner (retired), but Tina seems much more iconic and valued. Probably because she has the Ike narrative to give context.

.

As weird as I think it is, for Phil Collins it's worse. That guy's a joke (for some reason), but I read that's he's actually the 3rd best selling solo artist of all time...?

>

I don't get that feeling. There might not be much reverence, but I don't get the disdain that you seem to think is there.

neko said:

Growing up there were all these big stars. Huge superstars like MJ and Madonna and then the next level down u had ppl like Janet Jackson, Phil Collins, Jeffrey Osborne, Tina Turner and Prince etc etc and I just kinda accepted they all deserved to be where they were and have ppl saying they were good. Now time has passed and gone by it feels like Janet managed to go up a few more steps on the ladder of how ppl look at her as a legend than she deserved to based on her talent. Maybe down to being Michael's sister?

I mean when I go through her albums now I think she doesn't deserve a whole folder on her own. There are just a couple of quite good tracks on Rhythm Nation and that's it so she goes in my Various Singers folder with people like Bobby Brown. Don't Be Cruel is a better album than any of Janet's albums for one example, and he wasn't exactly Mozart or whatever, though Bobby probably danced better because classical music doesn't have videos. I mean when Bobby was younger because now he has to quit the tour because he's old and can't breathe. Anyway I just degreased but my point I'm trying to make is really Janet Jackson wasn't really ever that good if you are honest. What was so great? She lost a lot of weight that one time but so did Oprah.

.......

[Edited 7/26/14 12:28pm]

I really wasn't in the mood to have to read people today, but you asked for it. You're talking like one of those delusional Janet-hating, Madonna/Beyonce/Mariah/What-Have-You-worshipping cunt stans who just likes to spout stupid shit about Janet for the fun of it, or just to irk her true fans, or whatever the fuck. If not for Janet Jackson, half the pop tarts ruling the charts these days would not even exist. Her legacy is in all of these new girls, as everything they've done, are currently doing and will likely do in the future is something that Janet has already done. It's criminal that the media doesn't give her her proper due, which in turn creates astoundingly stupid ideas like the ones you're spouting about her "lack of" a place in the history of pop music, but her legacy speaks for itself. Just about every female dance/pop act to come out in the past 20 some-odd years is basically a Xerox copy of Janet in one way or another. Rihanna. Check. Britney Spears. Check. Ciara. Check. TLC. Check. J-Lo. Check. Zendaya. Check. Beyonce. Check. Kelly Rowland. Check. And the list goes on and on and on. In the '80s, record companies were scrambling to find the next Janet, which in turn begat Control-esque albums from Vanessa Williams, Nia Peeples and Paula Abdul just to name a few. When the '90s hit, and Janet's image went from tomboy/militant to confident and sexy, acts such as Salt 'N Pepa and TLC underwent a similar transformation. In the late '90s, Janet's influence was seen in artists like Aaliyah and Britney Spears, and in the new millennium, everyone from Kelly Rowland to Ciara to Rihanna to Jennifer Lopez to Mya was caught blatantly swaggerjacking something Janet had already done. What irks me about people like you is how you like to attribute her career to the fact that she's Michael Jackson's sister. Michael had many siblings, but the only one to ascend to pop music superstardom in a way akin to Michael was Janet, and that was because of HER talent. You can't maintain a decades-long career as a pop ICON (which Janet is) based on being someone's sister. The name got her in the door, but her talent kept her in the room. Michael Jackson will always be pop music's king, but there was a time there when even he called on his sister (and her producers) for a little assistance. Janet's songs are the soundtrack to the mid-late '80s, the entirety of the '90s and a good part of the beginning of the new millennium. Her music videos helped to redefine what it means to be a pop star in the modern world. Her choreography is STILL mimicked today. Her looks, style and record-setting world tours are emulated by pop's current generation and her songs are frequently sampled by today's pop and hip-hop artists. Her catchphrase "...Janet, Miss Jackson if you're nasty" is a pop culture staple. You'd be hard-pressed to find a photo of a female dance/pop artist that is more emulated and paid homage to than her 1993 Rolling Stone magazine cover. Her albums and singles set benchmark records that it took people like Shania Twain and Lady Gaga YEARS to catch up to. Several of her albums are included on various "Albums You Must Hear Before You Die" and "Best of All Time" lists. She was the first artist to have an album that contained 7 top 5 Hot 100 hits (RN 1814. *Sidenote: RN 1814 was not only a statisically successful album, but the scope of its subject matter--e.g. racism/homelessness/senseless, random acts of violence against children/suicide--makes it one of the most currently relevant pop albums to come out of the '80s). She was the first female artist to have a single debut in the top 10 (1995's "Runaway"). She was the first female artist to have an album debut at #1 during the SoundScan era (1993's janet.). She remains the only artist to have Grammy nominations that span the Pop, Dance, Rock, R&B and Hip-Hop categories. She was the first female artist to achieve five back-to-back #1 Billboard Top 200 albums. She has more R&B #1s than Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston, and the only other female who has more R&B #1s than Janet is Aretha. Her Virgin Records mega-deals in the '90s made her the highest paid recording artist in the history of music--twice in one decade. She swept the Billboard Awards in 1990 with a total of 15 wins in one night, and holds the record for most BB awards won by an artist. RN 1814 was the biggest selling album of 1990, and the supporting world tour was the biggest concert box-office draw for a female in the US and still holds the record for biggest debut tour by an artist. When her NUTTY PROFESSOR II song "Doesn't Really Matter" went #1 in 2000, it made her the first artist to have a #1 hit in the '80s, '90s and 2000s. 2001's "All For You" was the longest-running #1 song that year. "That's the Way Love Goes" was #1 for 8 weeks, making her the Jackson act with the longest-running #1 song. Her critically-lauded 1997 album The Velvet Rope, with its anti-homophobia and introspective themes helped fans to see that even internationally renown pop stars get the blues and, in essence, are human too. She's been nominated for an Oscar and has won everything from the MTV Vanguard award to the prestigeous World Music Award. Her fan base is diverse: young and old, gay and straight, black and white, from the USA to Asia--she is loved the world over. Her songs have been covered on TV shows like GLEE and in concert by everyone from Whitney Houston and Prince to Kelly Clarkson, Robyn and Bruno Mars. She's done movies, penned a #1 New York Times Bestselling book, and has done all of this while still maintaining an aire of mystery about her personal life and while keeping her private life out of the tabloids (for the most part), which is something that embarrassing famewhores like Madonna and Jennifer Lopez should learn a thing or two from. So, when I say that you're basically talking out of your ass about Janet's "lack of her own pop music legacy", then you can see that I pretty much mean what I say.

"Janet was one of the first female pop icons that I could relate to ... She was so vibrant, she had so much energy. She still has power. I’ve seen her on stage, and she can stand there for 20 minutes and have the whole arena scream at her. You have to love Janet."--Rihanna

The late Aaliyah was one of Janet's biggest fans, and often mentioned in interviews her desire to work with Janet

"I am a student of Janet Jackson..." SOLANGE

Mya's "Case of the Ex" video was a veritable scene-by-scene homage to Janet's "You Want This"

"Janet was definitely one person I loved to watch growing up and I think she's such an amazing performer and she's contributed so many great things to the musical trend. Because of that I am inspired by her as an artist."--Ciara

“My dream role is to play Janet Jackson, if she ever does her life story while I’m still alive – and I’m young enough to play her."--Keshia Knight Pullium

“My dream role is to play in Janet Jackson’s life story, if I could ever talk to her without crying. If I could actually meet Janet and not cry and run away and make a crackhead of myself, then I’d like to play her.”--Raven Symone

Gabrielle Union admits she was such a huge fan of Janet Jackson that she even let her fixation enter her professional life. She says, "My love affair with Janet Jackson began when she was CHARLENE on DIFF'RENT STROKES. Once, before a big audition, I asked my hairstylist to make me look like her. I did my make-up like Janet, and I walked into WARNER BROTHERS listening to Janet on my headphones, and who else walks out of there but Janet Jackson..."

"The Pleasure Principle inspired me to get into this business..." -- Jennifer Lopez

'“Black Cat” incorporated a bunch of different types of music into one song. It was pop. It was punk. It was rock and roll. And I am all of those things. I think it hit me as a kid really hard, because I love to experience a fusion of musical genres.' -- FeFe Dobson

Mexican singer Selena cited Janet among her main influences with husband Chris Perez stating, "Selena especially loved Janet's song "Black Cat" ... I can't even count how many times Selena and I listened to that single."

Robyn covering "When I Think of You" in concert

Kelly Clarkson covering "If" in concert

The Vampire Diaries actress Kat Graham's mash-up song tribute

Bruno Mars covering "That's the Way Love Goes" in concert

GLEE does Janet

Candace Cameron and Mark Ballas did a jazz routine to "Nasty" on Dancing With the Stars

'80s TV show NASTY BOYS was named for Janet's song and used it as its theme song

Britney Spears was nicknamed "Little Janet" by her MMC co-stars. Her BRITNEY JEAN album was inspired by Janet's DAMITA JO, even down to the title. "I wanted to BE her..." -- Britney Spears

Kelly Rowland does Janet

LOOK FAMILIAR? IT SHOULD. IT'D ALREADY BEEN DONE BEFORE...

Adam Levine considers this photo of himself to be the male version of Janet's legendary RS cover. He also Tweeted: "Even for as huge as Janet Jackson is. I stil feel like her records are underrated. #brilliant"

"(When) Control came out, that joker was just...wildfire. She worked it...every video, every song, and ain't looked back since..." -- Kim Fields

Justin Timberlake's original crush was Janet

Growing up, JT was infatuated with Janet and was a huge fan. He said he wanted a girl like her and said she had "the voice of an angel".

Ironically, he went on to date Britney, who has a very similar persona to Janet, and Britney revealed their first kiss was to a Janet song. JT later opened for Janet's 'Velvet Rope' tour, and claimed his experience on the tour helped develop him as an artist and improved his performing.

L.A. Booksigning for the #1 NY Times Bestseller TRUE YOU

This...

ll

ll

V

...is nothing more than a feeble rip-off of this...

^^Janet flashmobs (these are only some of them. There have been MANY).

And these are only some of the examples which illustrate the legendary career of Janet Damita Jo Jackson. I don't know how else to spell it out for you. I mean, maybe sock puppets are in order for you to be able to get it. All that, and this woman isn't influential? Hasn't carved out her own lane in the annals of pop music history? Doesn't deserve the title of legend? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

That's the end? Not hardly.

[Edited 7/27/14 14:30pm]

CynicKill said:

Mintchip said:

i love control and Rhythm Nation, and almost love Janet.

.

For me, the mystery (which goes double for Phil Collins) is how could someone be so successful, and then so forgotten. Outside of the hardcore (they'll chime in soon), and the gays (that's me), I really don't see a lot of love, nostalgia, or even thought put into Janet.

.

Which is odd, because she was HUGE. And I don't think it's the Superbowl. Madonna was as controversial, much more often, and we she's still very much around (unfortunately) .

.

Janet is just...gone. Like, redundant. I'd compare her to Tina Turner (retired), but Tina seems much more iconic and valued. Probably because she has the Ike narrative to give context.

.

As weird as I think it is, for Phil Collins it's worse. That guy's a joke (for some reason), but I read that's he's actually the 3rd best selling solo artist of all time...?

>

I don't get that feeling. There might not be much reverence, but I don't get the disdain that you seem to think is there.

well there was the south park episode where Chef discovers that if you drug children with ritalin they actually enjoy listening to phil collins songs

http://southpark.wikia.com/wiki/Phil_Collins

.

Here's Phil Collins apologizing for his career, and saying that he understands why people hate him:

http://prince.org/msg/8/354121

.

then there's this collection of articles and quotes on wikipedia, mostly people talking about how awful his music is: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...#Criticism

.

Here he is talking about how he wants to kill himself:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/exclusive-phil-collins-admits-suicidal-thoughts-20101109

.

...So...I'd just like to say that I disagree with all of it, and love phil collins, even though I could not imagine buying one of his albums.

[Edited 7/27/14 12:13pm]

To be fair, both her and Madonna aren't that memorable to me. I turn the station when any of their songs come on the radio.

wildgoldenhoney said:

To be fair, both her and Madonna aren't that memorable to me. I turn the station when any of their songs come on the radio.

>

Stop lyin!

>

Mintchip said:

i love control and Rhythm Nation, and almost love Janet.

.

For me, the mystery (which goes double for Phil Collins) is how could someone be so successful, and then so forgotten. Outside of the hardcore (they'll chime in soon), and the gays (that's me), I really don't see a lot of love, nostalgia, or even thought put into Janet.

.

Which is odd, because she was HUGE. And I don't think it's the Superbowl. Madonna was as controversial, much more often, and we she's still very much around (unfortunately) .

.

Janet is just...gone. Like, redundant. I'd compare her to Tina Turner (retired), but Tina seems much more iconic and valued. Probably because she has the Ike narrative to give context.

.

As weird as I think it is, for Phil Collins it's worse. That guy's a joke (for some reason), but I read that's he's actually the 3rd best selling solo artist of all time...?

maybe you should check out twitter sometimes, you will see how other artists just randomly bring janet up and talk about how they miss her, or hashtag a janet song/lyric for no reason, or how all these new r&b girls are still calling her their biggest influence or how her name is still being mentioned in rap songs . maybe the media would like to forget her but trust me janet is not forgotten in the industry. the fact that there is a 'i hate janet' thread on this site at least once a week tells me she is on somebody's mind.

Sorry I do mean about her music only. I didn't ask anything about her acting because I thought everybody agrees she's not very good at that.

Some nice photos in the long post and I have heard of some of the other people too.

lowkey said:

Mintchip said:

i love control and Rhythm Nation, and almost love Janet.

.

For me, the mystery (which goes double for Phil Collins) is how could someone be so successful, and then so forgotten. Outside of the hardcore (they'll chime in soon), and the gays (that's me), I really don't see a lot of love, nostalgia, or even thought put into Janet.

.

Which is odd, because she was HUGE. And I don't think it's the Superbowl. Madonna was as controversial, much more often, and we she's still very much around (unfortunately) .

.

Janet is just...gone. Like, redundant. I'd compare her to Tina Turner (retired), but Tina seems much more iconic and valued. Probably because she has the Ike narrative to give context.

.

As weird as I think it is, for Phil Collins it's worse. That guy's a joke (for some reason), but I read that's he's actually the 3rd best selling solo artist of all time...?

maybe you should check out twitter sometimes, you will see how other artists just randomly bring janet up and talk about how they miss her, or hashtag a janet song/lyric for no reason, or how all these new r&b girls are still calling her their biggest influence or how her name is still being mentioned in rap songs . maybe the media would like to forget her but trust me janet is not forgotten in the industry. the fact that there is a 'i hate janet' thread on this site at least once a week tells me she is on somebody's mind.

Exactly. I've noticed that The Org in particular has a certain kind of disdain for Janet. I have no idea why, because she's certainly one of the innovators for modern dance pop, and she's never really had an out-and-out moment when she's behaved like a bitch to some poor fan or reporter, when the same can't be said for many of her contemporaries. I can't tell you how many times I've seen, recently, an artist mention Janet or ask when she's coming back or reference one of her songs on social media, etc. People are so far up Madonna and Beyonce's asses that they fail to see these types of things.

lazycrockett said:

This should be FUN!!!

neko said:

Sorry I do mean about her music only. I didn't ask anything about her acting because I thought everybody agrees she's not very good at that.

Oh come on, give her some credit for her acting at least!

TD3 said:

No she wasn't. Ms. Jackson has zero talent; her last name fueled a career that would have otherwise NEVEr existed. ps. IMHO ------------------ [Edited 7/26/14 20:30pm]

It's tired and old, boo. "Her family name gave her her career," "It's all because of her family," "Yadda Yadda Yadda." Try another kind of insult, 'cause that one ain't workin'. Now have several motherfucking seats.

[Edited 7/27/14 15:03pm]

SEANMAN said:

lowkey said:

maybe you should check out twitter sometimes, you will see how other artists just randomly bring janet up and talk about how they miss her, or hashtag a janet song/lyric for no reason, or how all these new r&b girls are still calling her their biggest influence or how her name is still being mentioned in rap songs . maybe the media would like to forget her but trust me janet is not forgotten in the industry. the fact that there is a 'i hate janet' thread on this site at least once a week tells me she is on somebody's mind.

Exactly. I've noticed that The Org in particular has a certain kind of disdain for Janet. I have no idea why, because she's certainly one of the innovators for modern dance pop, and she's never really had an out-and-out moment when she's behaved like a bitch to some poor fan or reporter, when the same can't be said for many of her contemporaries. I can't tell you how many times I've seen, recently, an artist mention Janet or ask when she's coming back or reference one of her songs on social media, etc. People are so far up Madonna and Beyonce's asses that they fail to see these types of things.

Stymie said:

TD3 said:

No she wasn't. Ms. Jackson has zero talent; her last name fueled a career that would have otherwise NEVEr existed. ps. IMHO ------------------ [Edited 7/26/14 20:30pm]

I absolutely adore you.

You're one of the most pathetic trolls on here when it comes to Janet. I'm beginning to think she must've run over your cat or flipped off your grandma or something. Janet is a world-renown pop icon who's been rich, famous and successful for the bulk of her existence, and you're just one of several hundred posting on an internet forum. And who are you posting about? About her. So, in essence, you know of her and she (fortunately) has no idea you exist. Have a seat, honey.

'BYE, HATER!!

lazycrockett said:

It hilarious that Black Cat is getting props, thats one of the worse songs in her discography.

Let's not deny "Black Cat" its rightful place. She wrote the song herself and co-produced it with Jellybean Johnson, and when she received a Grammy nom for Best Female Rock Vocal for the song, it made her the only artist to receive Grammy noms spanning five genres (Dance, Rock, Pop, R&B and Hip-Hop). It was a complete 180 from everything else on RN in that it was a hard rock track that actual metal artists were playing instruments on (LIVING COLOUR's Vernon Reid and EXTREME's Nuno Bettencourt), and it ended up being her fourth Hot 100 #1 and a US Mainstream Rock #1. "Black Cat" is also the first and only pop song to be mixed by German metal engineer Michael Wagener, it was lauded by legendary rock drummer Tommy Lee and Lemmy from Motorhead wanted to cover it with her. He was quoted as saying, "I wanted to do a version of 'Black Cat' with her, but Sony wouldn't let me. You could tell from the video that she was having a good time, that this loud rock music is what she really wanted to be doing." Over the years, "Black Cat" has been covered by several rock (and pop) outfits.

[Edited 7/27/14 14:55pm]

Warning, the N-word is used in this song, unfortunately. Thanks.

neko said:

Sorry I do mean about her music only. I didn't ask anything about her acting because I thought everybody agrees she's not very good at that.

You are an unabashedly determined troll, I'll give you that one. Janet's acting is a whole hell of a lot better than many of her contemporaries, that's for sure...

Hater? How old are we? A question was asked andI answered it. There are those who have a different point of view - cool, it takes all kinds. If some need to constantly hear the sound of their own voice and/or their opinion(s) reaffirmed; I'd suggest you find a Jackson site for which group speak will no doubt occur.

Neither Ivy nor I insulted anyone who expressed their admiration for Ms. Jackson music. Ivy and I do share the opinion, Ms. Jackson couldn't sing in a shower let alone out of one. Producers, videos, and her last name gave her career. Looking at upteem posters doesn't make a singer, being able to sing does. Hate doesn't figure into the equation..

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Edited 7/27/14 15:20pm]

It amazes me how you're able to look up all these pics, gifs and videos so fast, SEANMAN. This thread has made me decide to pop in my VHS of The Velvet Rope tour.

VoicesCarry said:

Counter-point to the OP:

Control

Janet Jackson's Rhythym Nation 1814

janet.

The Velvet Rope

All ace albums. All R&B classics. There's really no argument to be made about their status or acclaim, which have effectively sealed her legacy. (Which, by the way, far exceeds anything Bobby Brown has ever accomplished in his rather limited career, so not sure why that comparison was made).

And the Janet-only-had-a-music-career-because-of-her-last-name point is, quite frankly, lame as fuck. If it was so easy, then it would have worked for Jermaine, La Toya, etc.

The bottom line is it was probably much harder for Janet to distinguish herself from her brother, and yet she established herself as a powerhouse artist and star in her own right. That takes talent, guts and hustle, and I have no doubt she had to work her ass off for it. Kudos to her - I have mad respect for that.

Hudson said:

It amazes me how you're able to look up all these pics, gifs and videos so fast, SEANMAN. This thread has made me decide to pop in my VHS of The Velvet Rope tour.

Party on!!

TD3 said:

Hater? How old are we? A question was asked andI answered it. There are those who have a different point of view - cool, it takes all kinds. If some need to constantly hear the sound of their own voice and/or their opinion(s) reaffirmed; I'd suggest you find a Jackson site for which group speak will no doubt occur.

Neither Ivy nor I insulted anyone who expressed their admiration for Ms. Jackson music. Ivy and I do share the opinion, Ms. Jackson couldn't sing in a shower let alone out of one. Producers, videos, and her last name gave her career. Looking at upteem posters doesn't make a singer, being able to sing does. Hate doesn't figure into the equation..

I don't remember referring to you per se as a hater, but if the shoe fits and/or if you're that offended by what I'm saying to someone else (I have no clue who Ivy is, so you may have to help me with that one), then slip it on and wear it. It is not the fact that you say that you don't like Janet's music that's the problem, it's the tone by which you are saying it that's the issue. There are plenty of artists I don't like, but I wouldn't make a habit of saying that they have "zero talent" and are riding on coattails or whatever, just to be obnoxious for obnoxious's sake, which is exactly what you and some of the others in here are. And as for my opinions and the need to have them reaffirmed, well you can just save it. I have no need to have any opinion that I have on Janet reaffirmed, but if someone makes stupid blanket statements about her career when I KNOW the opposite is true, then you can best believe that I will make my opinions known. IN DETAIL. Now you can take that however you want to take it.

[Edited 7/27/14 16:06pm]