SEANMAN said:

midnightmover said:

Damn, you are so slippery it's a wonder your fingers don't slide off the keys as you type. You've more or less admitted that Janet has a track record of lying (we certainly agree on that, "wardrobe malfunction" anyone?), but you say the lying is only to protect her privacy. But Rene's secret songwriting contributions have nothing to do with personal privacy, so that's a misleading argument.

More sneaky is your claim that Janet only credited Rene with co-writing before their divorce. This is so obviously dishonest that I just did a 30-second Google search to discredit it. What I found was this 2007 interview with the Guardian.....

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2008/feb/10/popandrock.urbanmusic

In it she EXPLICITLY says that she felt like a fraud for co-writing with someone (Rene) and not giving them credit. That interview is in 2007. I found that in just 30 seconds, so your claim that she only admitted this before the divorce is little short of a lie. Janet has confirmed his secret contributions in many interviews since (and yes, that includes whatever magazine I read in that waiting room in 2002). Now that you have clear proof of your error I hope you will behave like a man, and simply admit that you've been proven wrong. There's no shame in being wrong. The shame is in being dishonest.

Interestingly, LA Reid in the same article describes working with Janet as "unusual" since "Janet is not the most..... outspoken person". The writer even comments on what a notable admission that is, given they were still working together at the time. When the writer meets her he says he can see what LA Reid means. What he describes is a very timid woman. You can easily understand why she had to rely on men so much in her career. And you guys actually call her a "strong black woman". What a joke. Statements like that show that it's not only racists who stereotype. Clearly Janet Jackson fans do it too.

[Edited 8/19/14 4:26am]

The only thing I have clear proof of is that I’ve been going back and forth with someone who clearly has a bone to pick and a point to prove, but I have yet to figure out what it is. You spending so much time trying to discredit an artist who you yourself have called “trivial” actually speaks more of you trying to persuade me of something than it does of the act of discrediting the artist herself, which goes beyond the realm of weird and is essentially just a waste of your energy. And what, pray tell, does the interview settle? Okay, so she says in the article that she worked on a few songs years ago with someone. A FEW. A few is not the 37 songs that Rene claimed to have co-written with her. The main composers of the bulk of Janet’s singles have been Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis and Janet herself. If she’d said, “This person wrote close to 40 of my singles with me, but because Jimmy, Terry and I were the only ones taking credit, I felt like a fraud,” then I could see your point, but she said that it was a few songs that this person worked on. For all we know, those few songs could have been some album tracks from the “janet.” album. They could have been the two new singles from “Design of a Decade”. They could have been some of the interludes and a few album tracks from RN. You’re coming from a viewpoint that my stance has always been Rene never, ever put his input into any of her music, which has not been my stance (even though Jimmy Jam himself has gone on record and video stating that he doesn’t remember Rene picking up a pen and paper, but I digress…) I’ve said that his input in the songs came during TVR era, but I still find it suspect that if he’d written 37 songs with her that he wouldn’t initially want credit for at least some of them. And then, which is it? Did he not want to take credit, or was it industry people telling Janet not to give him credit? Who knows?

It’s comments of yours like, “And you guys call her a ’strong black woman’. What a joke…” that really make me think that it’s personal with you. What does that even mean, exactly? Is there some stake in what one considers to be a strong black woman? Is Janet’s personal version of inner strength lesser than another woman of color’s assessment of inner strength? What is your point? And your fixation on the men in her life is just plain odd, but we’ve already gone there, so I don’t care to tread that ground again. I’ve seen many an anti-Janet troll attack her looks, her dancing abilities, her singing, etc., but you seem to dig a little deeper. What’s sad is that you’re spending time actively discrediting an artist whom you’ve never even met (or maybe you have and she ticked you off, hence the reason behind your distaste of anything Janet Jackson ) just to prove one of her fans wrong. And guess what? No matter how many 30-second Google searches you embark upon, you never will. Because at the end of the day, it’s not about proving someone wrong, is it? It’s not about dishonesty or “slipperiness” or any of these things. It simply comes down to the fact that Janet Jackson was, is and will always be a pop culture and a pop music innovator. She’s had various collaborators over the years, but so what? Many other artists who are considered icons in their perspective genres and fields have as well. No man is an island (except maybe for Prince , and even he’s had collaborators). It does not detract from the impact that her music, her videos, her personal style and her concerts have had on the pop music industry. And no amount of “she ain’t shit” mantras from you or anyone else will diminish it. You can try (as you have in abundance in this thread), but it’s just not gonna happen. Again, if it’s just about trying to prove a point to me, then let me say it again so that hopefully you’ll let it sink in…you’re wasting your time.

You're misrepresenting what she said. She didn't just say that someone collaborated with her. She said that this collaborator was uncredited and she felt like a fraud because of it. We both know this "someone" was Rene. And this was after the divorce, not before it, so this was not some fake confession to boost the man she loved as you suggested earlier.

What reason did Janet have to lie about this? More importantly, why if Rene was lying did she never say anything to contradict him? You've had many chances to answer these questions and each time you've dodged, dodged and dodged again. This is dishonest behaviour, but we all have our own levels of honour. Some low, some high.

midnightmover is such a creep...