Schubert said:

lowkey said:

Lowkey, you were ridiculous when I first was here and, 4 years later, you're still ridiculous. Exactly: choreographers are paid to create routines...by people who lack the talent to do anything even remotely close to it.

Janet is a close to mediocre singer and is not, by any means, a heavyweight talent in any other department. Besides, her music is pop-ish, bubble gum-ish and forced-and-pseudo-erotic. She’s simply not that great.

The only one in the family with true, heavyweight talent was Michael, whether Jackson-family lovers like it or not.

wow talk about random...anyways im glad you mentioned the mj part, ive always felt janet catches alot of hate because she's mike's sister. there are people who believe he is the only jackson that should have been a big star. (mostly non americans) your comments about choreographers is just stupid. so mj didnt use them? i could care less if you feel janet's not that great, not good or just plain suck...you have the right to your own opinion. i happen to think umm, justin timberlake for example sucks, i couldnt write 3 sentences about his career because i think he sucks, but the people who think janet suck likes to write full paragraphs on her entire life.its weird to pay that much attention to somebody you dont like.

lowkey said:

Schubert said:

Lowkey, you were ridiculous when I first was here and, 4 years later, you're still ridiculous. Exactly: choreographers are paid to create routines...by people who lack the talent to do anything even remotely close to it.

Janet is a close to mediocre singer and is not, by any means, a heavyweight talent in any other department. Besides, her music is pop-ish, bubble gum-ish and forced-and-pseudo-erotic. She’s simply not that great.

The only one in the family with true, heavyweight talent was Michael, whether Jackson-family lovers like it or not.

wow talk about random...anyways im glad you mentioned the mj part, ive always felt janet catches alot of hate because she's mike's sister. there are people who believe he is the only jackson that should have been a big star. (mostly non americans) your comments about choreographers is just stupid. so mj didnt use them? i could care less if you feel janet's not that great, not good or just plain suck...you have the right to your own opinion. i happen to think umm, justin timberlake for example sucks, i couldnt write 3 sentences about his career because i think he sucks, but the people who think janet suck likes to write full paragraphs on her entire life.its weird to pay that much attention to somebody you dont like.

Janet laughin all the way to the billion dollar bank loll

lowkey said:

midnightmover said:

Jesus, have you been paying any attention at all? We've already established that Janet was taking credit for Rene's work for a whole decade. The reason they eventually admitted it was because Rene felt they were being "fraudulent" (that's Janet's word, not mine). The drop in standards after Rene left is also perfectly clear.

If you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion then stay out of it. You're not saying anything that's relevant.

lmao,im still trying to figure out what your rants are about. so you are upset because you feel rene didnt get credit or whatever? far as drop in standards after rene, well thats a matter of opion,there are people who prefer all 4 you or damita jo to some of her older stuff. one thing i can say though is she did have success after the rene split where as he never did anything in the industry before or after his association with her.so according to you it was rene,not the prolific duo of jimmy and terry,most responsible for janet's music? we are adults why are you acting like a spoiled child telling me to stay out of it just because i think your rants and excessive negativity are ridiculous.

By admitting that you don't know what my point is you're effectively admitting you have no right to criticize, since you can't even follow simple logic. I've expressed myself perfectly clearly. Janet was an empty shell, a cypher. It's not that difficult. She may well have been a delightful lady, but artistically she was whatever other people made her into.

Those other people included many, but certainly Rene and Jam & Lewis were the most important. After Rene, Jermaine Dupri tried to play a similar role, but he wasn't up to it. After he stepped back, she tried doing it with no-one to hold her hand and it was a disaster. LA Reid was boss of Island records when they signed Janet in 2007 and no doubt he expected a "legendary artist" like Janet to know what she wanted. He found the exact opposite. With no-one around to tell her what to do she was completely lost. He described working with her as a frustrating experience for precisely this reason.

[Edited 8/13/14 7:44am]

midnightmover said:

lowkey said:

Schubert said:

Lowkey, you were ridiculous when I first was here and, 4 years later, you're still ridiculous. Exactly: choreographers are paid to create routines...by people who lack the talent to do anything even remotely close to it.

Janet is a close to mediocre singer and is not, by any means, a heavyweight talent in any other department. Besides, her music is pop-ish, bubble gum-ish and forced-and-pseudo-erotic. She’s simply not that great.

The only one in the family with true, heavyweight talent was Michael, whether Jackson-family lovers like it or not.

wow talk about random...anyways im glad you mentioned the mj part, ive always felt janet catches alot of hate because she's mike's sister. there are people who believe he is the only jackson that should have been a big star. (mostly non americans) your comments about choreographers is just stupid. so mj didnt use them? i could care less if you feel janet's not that great, not good or just plain suck...you have the right to your own opinion. i happen to think umm, justin timberlake for example sucks, i couldnt write 3 sentences about his career because i think he sucks, but the people who think janet suck likes to write full paragraphs on her entire life.its weird to pay that much attention to somebody you dont like.

Who else? Who else on that family has true, heavyweight talent? I'm not talking about playing a few instruments or having a good voice, I'm talking about real, big talent.

As far as the choreograohy goes, heart-of-stone Midnightmover has already addressed that.

Nothing wrong with having choreographers or following choreographies. What is wrong is not to have anything beside it.

Scorp said:

lowkey said:

wow talk about random...anyways im glad you mentioned the mj part, ive always felt janet catches alot of hate because she's mike's sister. there are people who believe he is the only jackson that should have been a big star. (mostly non americans) your comments about choreographers is just stupid. so mj didnt use them? i could care less if you feel janet's not that great, not good or just plain suck...you have the right to your own opinion. i happen to think umm, justin timberlake for example sucks, i couldnt write 3 sentences about his career because i think he sucks, but the people who think janet suck likes to write full paragraphs on her entire life.its weird to pay that much attention to somebody you dont like.

Janet laughin all the way to the billion dollar bank loll

And? And that means she is not criticizable? That means her merit can't be questioned? That anyone who dares question her true talent must shut up?

The day you have a 9-5 job and realize how tough life is, you'll realize how much of a crime it is to use that argument. When you start having to sweat to pay your food, you won't dare use it again.

BlackCat1985 said:

midnightmover said:

By admitting that you don't know what my point is you're effectively admitting you have no right to criticize, since you can't even follow simple logic. I've expressed myself perfectly clearly. Janet was an empty shell, a cypher. It's not that difficult. She may well have been a delightful lady, but artistically she was whatever other people made her into.

Those other people included many, but certainly Rene and Jam & Lewis were the most important. After Rene, Jermaine Dupri tried to play a similar role, but he wasn't up to it. After he stepped back, she tried doing it with no-one to hold her hand and it was a disaster. LA Reid was boss of Island records when they signed Janet in 2007 and no doubt he expected a "legendary artist" like Janet to know what she wanted. He found the exact opposite. With no-one around to tell her what to do she was completely lost. He described working with her as a frustrating experience for precisely this reason.

[Edited 8/13/14 7:44am]

Rene is that you? Lol! I wouldn't be surprised if it was. You giving him way to much credit. For someone who is reluctant to talk about Janet you sure do have a lot of time on your hand to talk about her. Anyway keep it going because you ain't changing nobody's mine. You either like her or you don't.

yeah i have no idea what they are trying to prove with these long winded paragraphs. janet fans are not gonna stop liking her after 30 years because some people on the internet dont like her.they are going way too hard with this

midnightmover said:

SEANMAN said:

You’re reluctant to talk about something because of a new accusation against Michael Jackson? Are you one of the executors to the estate? If Janet is so trivial to you, then what are you doing in here, particularly since we already know your stance? It’s because you’re a troll. The outfit certainly fits you, so you should stop fighting it, slip that baby on and wear it with pride. As for the “length and breadth” of my post, well, it was no more long or rambling than the many posts where you’ve waxed poetic about Janet not being an artist, about Janet being a puppet, about Janet’s lack of artistry, about Janet being a black Britney Spears (I’m still reeling over THAT one), about Janet’s boobs…um, okay, maybe you didn’t say that last one, but you get the gist.

Now, getting to your so-called “biggest point”. I believe I mentioned up-thread how I pretty much discounted the bulk of what Mr. Elizondo had to say when he came out about co-writing, for instance, “Black Cat”. He did not co-write “Black Cat”. He said many things during that time because he was involved in a heated divorce, and when people are involved in things like a heated divorce, they sometimes say things that might not be 100% truthful. And I believe I covered Janet as well when I stated that yes, Rene probably wrote some stuff during the VELVET ROPE era, but Jimmy Jam even stated that he never saw Rene pick up a pen and pad and write much of anything. I said that Janet probably gave him a lot more credit for writing “because of love”. Rene was a visual guy. A director. She even thanked him in the liner notes of the RN album by saying “Thanks for the visuals.” You also mentioned some documentary about Barry Lather speaking about Janet being afraid to do the “Pleasure Principle” choreography, whateverwhateverwhatever, but what amazed me more about you saying that is the fact that you probably gleaned more from Mr. Lather’s interview than what was really there. I, too, have seen many an interview/documentary/what-have-you about Janet, and yes, she was shy, but once she got out there and performed, she became a different person. It’s a Jackson trait that even Michael possessed (shy offstage, a dynamo onstage). That’s a lot of assumptions on your part about an artist who, as you claim, is just a “trivial, black Britney Spears.” For someone who takes the time to dismiss Janet and her legacy the way you’ve done in this thread, you seem to follow her career quite a bit. I find that…interesting. It’s like you’re some sort of unabashed masochist. “I don’t respect her as an artist, but I’ll watch documentaries about her, tally her album sales, etc, just for the hell of it.” I’ll just chalk it up to the fact that you probably do like her, but it’s her fans you don’t care too much for, which is pretty hilarious to me because it’s the stance that a lot of anti-Janet (or anti-anybody) trolls like yourself take. I like (or used to like) her, but her “stans” made me hate her. Or maybe you really don’t care much for her, which is fine too, but it brings me back to my earlier point that you spend a LOT of time in her thread. That’s trolling at its highest order.

Oh, and one last thing. Many artists rely on mentors, MJ included (Quincy Jones who?). The crux of the themes of Janet’s iconic albums ALL stemmed from something that was going on in her life. Not Rene Elizondo’s life. Not John McClain’s life (a man that Janet hired after she fired her father as her manager. You knew that, right?). She’s also had some female managers, but that’s beside the point since you’re so hung up on the men in her life. Anyway…in short: CONTROL--her life. RN 1814--her world. Janet.--her sexuality. THE VELVET ROPE--her depression. ALL FOR YOU--her freedom. No male guidance needed.

--signing off from “Stan-Land” (which, by the way, takes the prize as THE stupidest phrase I’ve ever seen typed on an internet forum)

I've already explained that the only reason I'm still here is because you have repeatedly called me names that I won't repeat. When people insult me I don't just walk away.

Now, it's good to see that you've stopped overlooking the issue of Rene's uncredited co-writes. Only one problem though. Whereas you previously dodged the issue by avoiding it, you're now dodging it in an even worse way. You've resorted to straightforward lying. You've pretended to make an admission that Rene "probably" co-wrote some VR material. But that is no admission at all since Rene was credited for his co-writes on that album at the time. In fact it's dishonest of you to even use the word "probably" there. Just take a look at the album sleeve. His name is on the credits for every single new song on there, so what the fuck are you saying "probably" for?

So no, that's not the issue here and you know it. The issue is that, as Janet admitted (in an interview with Rolling Stone magazine among many others) Rene had been the co-writer of almost all her songs since Rhythm Nation. He was the UNCREDITED co-writer. Those were Janet's words, not mine and not Rene's. You know this full well. To pretend not to know it is extremely dishonest on your part. It's time to stop tap-dancing around this issue. Either you think Janet was lying about this (in which case you should say so) or else you have to admit that you are wrong. It's one or the other.

And you've also misrepresented the issue of Barry Lather's comments about the Pleasure Principle. We're not talking about shyness here. We're talking about how the ideas came from other people. She was passive throughout the process and (by Lather's own admission) they knew she could only pull it off if it was "choreographed to a T". That confirms what I said earlier. Like J-Lo and Britney Spears, she could not freestyle. She had no stand-alone moves of her own. That's a big difference between her and her brother.

As I’ve stated, the term TROLL fits you exceptionally well. In spite of whatever people call you, you’re still spending an inordinate amount of time in the thread of a person you yourself have called “trivial”. You’re contradicting yourself.
And about Rene’s “co-writing”, I specified to you on several occasions what I think of that. Whether or not you harbor the knowledge to understand what someone is saying to you is not my concern. I don’t dodge a thing, so let’s get that straight. But, so I don’t have to draw pictures for you the next time, I’ll say it again (I don’t usually repeat myself much either, but you seem to be the type of person who warrants repeating). Janet said that Rene co-wrote many songs because she was in love with him. He was more of a visual person. A director. He may have written bits and pieces of songs or added a line or two, but JJ/TL and Janet were the main writers. She had given Rene credit for his visuals in the liner notes of other albums as well. His VIS-U-ALS. I highly doubt that Rene would have refused a co-writing credit on all of those pre-VELVET ROPE albums just for the hell of it. Why would he? There’s money to be made when you get a co-writing credit. I also highly doubt that Jimmy Jam would make a statement like he never saw Rene do much writing in the past without there being a modicum of truth to it (it’s a statement that Jimmy made on Janet’s episode of A&E’s HEADLINERS AND LEGENDS, if I remember correctly) . Janet is a writer. She’s written songs since she was a kid. She was actually the only lyricist on “That’s the Way Love Goes”, while JJ/TL supplied the beats. She wrote it on a Christmas break off, showed the lyrics to JJ/TL, and they came up with the melodies behind it. They may have added a word or two later on, but she initially wrote the song. She wrote “Whoops Now”, another janet. track, on her own, as well as “Ask For More” for her 1999 Pepsi campaign. She wrote “Black Cat” ALONE, and co-produced it with Jellybean Johnson. She is more than capable of writing songs.
As for your “she could not freestyle” and “she had no stand-alone moves” bullshit, well, that’s precisely what it is…bullshit. For instance, if you watch the RHYTHM NATION making-of docu video you will see her come up with a section that’s actually in the fucking video! How ’bout that! And what’s wrong with hiring someone to choreograph something “to a T” for you? There have been times when she’s executed the routines better than the person who choreographed it. Just take your (extraordinarily) weirdo fascination-cum-hatred for all things Janet Jackson and sit the fuck down somewhere.

Qazz said:

That Janet totally surrendered complete writing and production duties of her last album to others is very telling of how much of a puppet she can be. And she did try to unabashedly insert a much less visionary Jermaine in the void that Rene left, and it failed. I can't imagine many artists who (supposedly) has a history of being at least a primary co-writer and co-producer of the bulk of their material surrendering that much control and being that dependent on others to create for them. From the late 80s until the early 00s, Janet portrayed herself as being in control of her life and career, then she hits a commercial slump that she can't get out of and in a fit of utter desperation starts allowing other people to create music for her. That WAS a "Britney" thing to do. Or perhaps that Discipline album was just the façade finally coming down. ::: shrugs ::: Seems to me that Janet is only in “Control” when things are going well. BTW, I've spent a lot of time in this thread simply because it's one that doesn't kiss Janet's ass and calls attention to her not being that great -- which is an opinion that I agree with. You won't catch me in threads about what her best video is, or news about that likely fourth consecutive flop album in a row that she's working on. The stans can have those. I'm here in a thread that wasn't set up as a love note to her, and posting in agreeance to the sentiment expressed by the OP, while adding my own thoughts. If anyone is "trolling" here, it's her taker-uppers who are so thin-skinned that they can't let *any* opinion that doesn't make her out to be some kind of higher entity slide. I don't care. You can spend hours google searching her resume, every award she's ever won, posting silly gifs of her in sassy poses as a way of capping off obnoxious retorts, and paragraphs worth of exaggerated (or in many cases, outright lies) folklore about who she's supposedly ‘influenced,’ and my position will remain. IMO, Janet is a mediocre-to-poor vocalist who would have never been famous without the last name of her more famous/talented/successful brother Michael (whom she subtly and not-so-subtly emulated and/or copied many times), she wouldn't ever had any hits without the musical talent of Jam and Lewis, and she wouldn't have had much direction without the creative vision of Rene. When all of these specific deck chairs began to fall out of place, Janet's career became increasingly disorganized until it finally went south. Sorry if my saying that offends you, but I'm sticking to that position and no fly-off-the-handle stan is going to convince me otherwise. Someone created this topic of conversation and I'm responding to it. Calling it "trolling" in an attempt to undermine the opposing side because you can't tolerate the idea that someone isn't a Janet fan in the first place (!), and would dare expresses an opinion of her that isn't flattering, ass kissing or at least passive enough to not ruffle stan feathers is...well, lame. This isn't janet.org., being a fan of hers isn't some kind of prerequisite to being here, nor does anyone need to water down their non-flattering perception of her because her enthusiasts tend to be too fragile to handle it without responding with cursing and name-calling (but I’M the troll. Yeah, okay.) It’s just hysterical to me that someone would say “you don’t like Janet, but you’re spending an awful lot of time in a thread about her. Heh…heh…” As if I’m intruding on, or bringing down the mood of, a thread that was meant to be complimentary. A counter to that would be “for someone who is a fan of Janet’s, and can’t handle anything said about her that isn’t totally compliant without throwing a temper tantrum and hurling petty insults, you’re spending an awful lot of time in a thread that doesn’t acquiesce to her.”

You’ve spent a lot of time in this thread for one reason, and it’s because you, too, are a troll, and one of the worst kind. I don’t give a fuck what the original poster said or what his sentiments were, because as we’ve already established, this was just a bait thread to begin with (notice how the OP has yet to return. That’s what people who start bait threads do--stir shit up then bounce). You adding to it with a bunch of worthless opinions about her being a “puppet” only pulls the cloak that much further off of your own troll-dom. We all know that Janet rarely gets love on the ORG, so the first time that people like you see a thread saying negative things about her, you jump. It’s a common thread (no pun intended) that I’ve seen on this site since I joined it years ago. Anyway, with this being the BAIT THREAD that it is, we as Janet fans have a right to come in and refute the unmitigated bullshit thrown at her storied career by clowns like yourself. And make no mistake, it IS a storied career. The many photos, gifs and videos that have been posted in this thread only act as proof to that fact. Her influence on generations of pop acts is not “exaggerated folklore” and it is certainly not “outright lies.” Anyone with the common sense that God gave a billy goat (something which you obviously don’t possess) can see this. I believe it’s just dogged stubbornness on your part to (foolishly) believe otherwise. These artists have not only SAID it, but they’ve also shown it in their own work. Hell, her own brother (MJ) took several pages from her book in the early ‘90s (something that I’ve also illustrated with videos and photos up-thread). Janet Jackson is an innovator. What the fuck kind of thing do you have against her to not even be able to see something as clear as that?
In short, Janet Jackson is a pop icon and a legend in her field, and anything that you have to say to the contrary is pretty much nullified by the eras between 1986 and 2002. And in case those various “sassy” gifs, photos and videos didn’t spell it out for you enough, then let me break it down for you again. Her career has encompassed several different facets of media, including TV, music, movies, and books. She has been awarded hand over fist for the many contributions she’s made to the performing arts, and has sold millions of albums, scored an arms-length list of hits and toured the world over in the process. Her influence was apparent in the ’80s, it was apparent in the ’90s, and it is still apparent today. Being a Jackson may have gotten her in the door (another thing you strangely seem to begrudge her for), but it was her talent that kept her at the top of the heap for many years. Did she work with other people to cultivate certain looks and craft various songs? Of course, but that does not detract from her status and she is not the first artist to do that, nor will she be the last. Now, as for your stance, as hackneyed and painfully obvious as it is, it’s really a non-factor at this point, because while you’re keying away on a Prince forum, stomping your feet about how you “don’t like her”, she’s STILL the Academy Award-nominated, multi-platinum-selling, industry record-setting pop icon and leader of the Rhythm Nation. And you’re, well…you. Oh, and here's another gif for you, since I know how much you ADORE them...

lowkey said:

BlackCat1985 said:

midnightmover said: Rene is that you? Lol! I wouldn't be surprised if it was. You giving him way to much credit. For someone who is reluctant to talk about Janet you sure do have a lot of time on your hand to talk about her. Anyway keep it going because you ain't changing nobody's mine. You either like her or you don't.

yeah i have no idea what they are trying to prove with these long winded paragraphs. janet fans are not gonna stop liking her after 30 years because some people on the internet dont like her.they are going way too hard with this

We always do, but these clowns in here actually warrant it. It's like communicating with a piece of lint with some (two) of them.

BlackCat1985 said:

midnightmover said:

By admitting that you don't know what my point is you're effectively admitting you have no right to criticize, since you can't even follow simple logic. I've expressed myself perfectly clearly. Janet was an empty shell, a cypher. It's not that difficult. She may well have been a delightful lady, but artistically she was whatever other people made her into.

Those other people included many, but certainly Rene and Jam & Lewis were the most important. After Rene, Jermaine Dupri tried to play a similar role, but he wasn't up to it. After he stepped back, she tried doing it with no-one to hold her hand and it was a disaster. LA Reid was boss of Island records when they signed Janet in 2007 and no doubt he expected a "legendary artist" like Janet to know what she wanted. He found the exact opposite. With no-one around to tell her what to do she was completely lost. He described working with her as a frustrating experience for precisely this reason.

[Edited 8/13/14 7:44am]

Rene is that you? Lol! I wouldn't be surprised if it was. You giving him way to much credit. For someone who is reluctant to talk about Janet you sure do have a lot of time on your hand to talk about her. Anyway keep it going because you ain't changing nobody's mine. You either like her or you don't.

LOL! I'm beginning to think it's him, too, or either one of his relatives. But hey, I'm pretty sure that Rene's relatives have better things to do than to spend time on an internet forum bashing his ex-wife.

midnightmover said:

lowkey said:

lmao,im still trying to figure out what your rants are about. so you are upset because you feel rene didnt get credit or whatever? far as drop in standards after rene, well thats a matter of opion,there are people who prefer all 4 you or damita jo to some of her older stuff. one thing i can say though is she did have success after the rene split where as he never did anything in the industry before or after his association with her.so according to you it was rene,not the prolific duo of jimmy and terry,most responsible for janet's music? we are adults why are you acting like a spoiled child telling me to stay out of it just because i think your rants and excessive negativity are ridiculous.

By admitting that you don't know what my point is you're effectively admitting you have no right to criticize, since you can't even follow simple logic. I've expressed myself perfectly clearly. Janet was an empty shell, a cypher. It's not that difficult. She may well have been a delightful lady, but artistically she was whatever other people made her into.

Those other people included many, but certainly Rene and Jam & Lewis were the most important. After Rene, Jermaine Dupri tried to play a similar role, but he wasn't up to it. After he stepped back, she tried doing it with no-one to hold her hand and it was a disaster. LA Reid was boss of Island records when they signed Janet in 2007 and no doubt he expected a "legendary artist" like Janet to know what she wanted. He found the exact opposite. With no-one around to tell her what to do she was completely lost. He described working with her as a frustrating experience for precisely this reason.

[Edited 8/13/14 7:44am]

Bullshit. Show us some receipts or THIS NEVER HAPPENED. He considered her "difficult" is what I've read, but that was his point of view. She wanted the more radio-friendly LUV to be the album's second single, but he wanted ROCK WITH U. In today's world, RWU would have flourished, but back then it was a bit ahead of its time for US audiences. The result was an underwhelming single. That, coupled with the fact that he put more energy into Mariah's record are what prompted her to leave IDJ. Who wouldn't under those circumstances?

thedoorkeeper said:

I would just like to say how much I have enjoyed following this very lively discussion. So much so I went to Amazon and downloaded Janet Jacksons greatest hits.

MUUAAAAHHH!!

SEANMAN said:

midnightmover said:

I've already explained that the only reason I'm still here is because you have repeatedly called me names that I won't repeat. When people insult me I don't just walk away.

Now, it's good to see that you've stopped overlooking the issue of Rene's uncredited co-writes. Only one problem though. Whereas you previously dodged the issue by avoiding it, you're now dodging it in an even worse way. You've resorted to straightforward lying. You've pretended to make an admission that Rene "probably" co-wrote some VR material. But that is no admission at all since Rene was credited for his co-writes on that album at the time. In fact it's dishonest of you to even use the word "probably" there. Just take a look at the album sleeve. His name is on the credits for every single new song on there, so what the fuck are you saying "probably" for?

So no, that's not the issue here and you know it. The issue is that, as Janet admitted (in an interview with Rolling Stone magazine among many others) Rene had been the co-writer of almost all her songs since Rhythm Nation. He was the UNCREDITED co-writer. Those were Janet's words, not mine and not Rene's. You know this full well. To pretend not to know it is extremely dishonest on your part. It's time to stop tap-dancing around this issue. Either you think Janet was lying about this (in which case you should say so) or else you have to admit that you are wrong. It's one or the other.

And you've also misrepresented the issue of Barry Lather's comments about the Pleasure Principle. We're not talking about shyness here. We're talking about how the ideas came from other people. She was passive throughout the process and (by Lather's own admission) they knew she could only pull it off if it was "choreographed to a T". That confirms what I said earlier. Like J-Lo and Britney Spears, she could not freestyle. She had no stand-alone moves of her own. That's a big difference between her and her brother.

As I’ve stated, the term TROLL fits you exceptionally well. In spite of whatever people call you, you’re still spending an inordinate amount of time in the thread of a person you yourself have called “trivial”. You’re contradicting yourself.
And about Rene’s “co-writing”, I specified to you on several occasions what I think of that. Whether or not you harbor the knowledge to understand what someone is saying to you is not my concern. I don’t dodge a thing, so let’s get that straight. But, so I don’t have to draw pictures for you the next time, I’ll say it again (I don’t usually repeat myself much either, but you seem to be the type of person who warrants repeating). Janet said that Rene co-wrote many songs because she was in love with him. He was more of a visual person. A director. He may have written bits and pieces of songs or added a line or two, but JJ/TL and Janet were the main writers. She had given Rene credit for his visuals in the liner notes of other albums as well. His VIS-U-ALS. I highly doubt that Rene would have refused a co-writing credit on all of those pre-VELVET ROPE albums just for the hell of it. Why would he? There’s money to be made when you get a co-writing credit. I also highly doubt that Jimmy Jam would make a statement like he never saw Rene do much writing in the past without there being a modicum of truth to it (it’s a statement that Jimmy made on Janet’s episode of A&E’s HEADLINERS AND LEGENDS, if I remember correctly) . Janet is a writer. She’s written songs since she was a kid. She was actually the only lyricist on “That’s the Way Love Goes”, while JJ/TL supplied the beats. She wrote it on a Christmas break off, showed the lyrics to JJ/TL, and they came up with the melodies behind it. They may have added a word or two later on, but she initially wrote the song. She wrote “Whoops Now”, another janet. track, on her own, as well as “Ask For More” for her 1999 Pepsi campaign. She wrote “Black Cat” ALONE, and co-produced it with Jellybean Johnson. She is more than capable of writing songs.
As for your “she could not freestyle” and “she had no stand-alone moves” bullshit, well, that’s precisely what it is…bullshit. For instance, if you watch the RHYTHM NATION making-of docu video you will see her come up with a section that’s actually in the fucking video! How ’bout that! And what’s wrong with hiring someone to choreograph something “to a T” for you? There have been times when she’s executed the routines better than the person who choreographed it. Just take your (extraordinarily) weirdo fascination-cum-hatred for all things Janet Jackson and sit the fuck down somewhere.

Aah, the deviousness continues. You just agreed with me that Janet did indeed say that Rene co-wrote her songs. But of course you added a lie to try and water down the truth. She never said he co-wrote her songs because she was in love with him. She simply said he co-wrote the songs and was not given credit for it. This is a fact, not an opinion. You are making yourself look extremely shady by refusing to simply admit that. For instance you've repeated the lie that she wrote Black Cat alone, even after she confirmed that Rene had been the uncredited co-writer of all those songs. You are absolutely shameless! If Rene had made false claims Janet would correct them. She hasn't. She's agreed with him publicly dozens of times. Are you accusing her of lying?

As for Jimmy Jam's comment how the hell would he know? Most songs are not written in the studio, dummy. Songs can be written anywhere. MJ wrote some of his biggest hits in a tree for godsakes. Billie Jean was largely composed in the back of his limousine. DSTYGE was a melody that came to him while he was walking around the house. By the same token if Rene had written Janet's lyrics or melodies J&L would not know unless they were told. Most songwriting is not done in the studio.

You are also being dishonest when you describe that four-second moment in the making-of-RN documentary. She did not "come up" with anything. Rene and someone else were discussing what order the moves (which the choreographer "came up" with) should be in. Janet suggested which move should follow which and the other two agreed. That is not "coming up" with anything. It's simply helping to solve a problem. But it's great that that four-second moment gives you something to hold on to. Lord knows Janet stans need every single straw they can get nowadays.

As for my spending time on a trivial subject like Janet, there are two points to be made. Firstly this is the first time I've discussed her in almost five years now. Barring some unforeseen circumstance it'll probably be the last. Secondly, the only reason I'm still here is because of you. You've been so obnoxious and sneaky that it's a point of principle now to throw some much needed reality onto the tsunami of bullshit you've been spewing. This thread is not gonna be a good one for you.

[Edited 8/14/14 12:13pm]

Wrong thread.

[Edited 8/14/14 13:49pm]

midnightmover said:

SEANMAN said:

As I’ve stated, the term TROLL fits you exceptionally well. In spite of whatever people call you, you’re still spending an inordinate amount of time in the thread of a person you yourself have called “trivial”. You’re contradicting yourself.
And about Rene’s “co-writing”, I specified to you on several occasions what I think of that. Whether or not you harbor the knowledge to understand what someone is saying to you is not my concern. I don’t dodge a thing, so let’s get that straight. But, so I don’t have to draw pictures for you the next time, I’ll say it again (I don’t usually repeat myself much either, but you seem to be the type of person who warrants repeating). Janet said that Rene co-wrote many songs because she was in love with him. He was more of a visual person. A director. He may have written bits and pieces of songs or added a line or two, but JJ/TL and Janet were the main writers. She had given Rene credit for his visuals in the liner notes of other albums as well. His VIS-U-ALS. I highly doubt that Rene would have refused a co-writing credit on all of those pre-VELVET ROPE albums just for the hell of it. Why would he? There’s money to be made when you get a co-writing credit. I also highly doubt that Jimmy Jam would make a statement like he never saw Rene do much writing in the past without there being a modicum of truth to it (it’s a statement that Jimmy made on Janet’s episode of A&E’s HEADLINERS AND LEGENDS, if I remember correctly) . Janet is a writer. She’s written songs since she was a kid. She was actually the only lyricist on “That’s the Way Love Goes”, while JJ/TL supplied the beats. She wrote it on a Christmas break off, showed the lyrics to JJ/TL, and they came up with the melodies behind it. They may have added a word or two later on, but she initially wrote the song. She wrote “Whoops Now”, another janet. track, on her own, as well as “Ask For More” for her 1999 Pepsi campaign. She wrote “Black Cat” ALONE, and co-produced it with Jellybean Johnson. She is more than capable of writing songs.
As for your “she could not freestyle” and “she had no stand-alone moves” bullshit, well, that’s precisely what it is…bullshit. For instance, if you watch the RHYTHM NATION making-of docu video you will see her come up with a section that’s actually in the fucking video! How ’bout that! And what’s wrong with hiring someone to choreograph something “to a T” for you? There have been times when she’s executed the routines better than the person who choreographed it. Just take your (extraordinarily) weirdo fascination-cum-hatred for all things Janet Jackson and sit the fuck down somewhere.

Aah, the deviousness continues. You just agreed with me that Janet did indeed say that Rene co-wrote her songs. But of course you added a lie to try and water down the truth. She never said he co-wrote her songs because she was in love with him. She simply said he co-wrote the songs and was not given credit for it. This is a fact, not an opinion. You are making yourself look extremely shady by refusing to simply admit that. For instance you've repeated the lie that she wrote Black Cat alone, even after she confirmed that Rene had been the uncredited co-writer of all those songs. You are absolutely shameless! If Rene had made false claims Janet would correct them. She hasn't. She's agreed with him publicly dozens of times. Are you accusing her of lying?

As for Jimmy Jam's comment how the hell would he know? Most songs are not written in the studio, dummy. Songs can be written anywhere. MJ wrote some of his biggest hits in a tree for godsakes. Billie Jean was largely composed in the back of his limousine. DSTYGE was a melody that came to him while he was walking around the house. By the same token if Rene had written Janet's lyrics or melodies J&L would not know unless they were told. Most songwriting is not done in the studio.

You are also being dishonest when you describe that four-second moment in the making-of-RN documentary. She did not "come up" with anything. Rene and someone else were discussing what order the moves (which the choreographer "came up" with) should be in. Janet suggested which move should follow which and the other two agreed. That is not "coming up" with anything. It's simply helping to solve a problem. But it's great that that four-second moment gives you something to hold on to. Lord knows Janet stans need every single straw they can get nowadays.

As for my spending time on a trivial subject like Janet, there are two points to be made. Firstly this is the first time I've discussed her in almost five years now. Barring some unforeseen circumstance it'll probably be the last. Secondly, the only reason I'm still here is because of you. You've been so obnoxious and sneaky that it's a point of principle now to throw some much needed reality onto the tsunami of bullshit you've been spewing. This thread is not gonna be a good one for you.

[Edited 8/14/14 12:13pm]

Dummy? That’s good. Nerve touched. Your spunk is cute, but it’s getting to the point now where I’m starting to feel some second-hand embarrassment for you. Throwing out some fable that you drummed up in your crazy head about what LA Reid said and how he felt about Janet is loony enough, but you have yet to provide proof (a link to an article, a video) of not only that, but various other pieces of fraudulent bullshit that you’ve been flippantly tossing off like some part of a weirdo manifest. That’s only but one reason why what you’re saying can only be taken with a grain of salt. Another thing that’s strange about you is, for a woman that you’ve called “trivial,” you appear to follow her career with a tenacity that not even some of her hardcore fans do. That you provided such vivid commentary on that making-of RN documentary is very telling (I’m sure you rushed right over to Youtube faster than the speed of light just so you could “prove me wrong”. You didn’t ). You’re like one of those psychotics who is fixated on a celebrity, claiming not to like them but secretly obsessing over them, which is the reason you know (or think you know) as much as you do. It’s disturbing yet funny at the same time. Even still, the question remains--why do you even care? If Janet Jackson is just some trivial person that you “rarely talk about”, then why are you investing your time? It’s like trying to justify why you eat cake all day when you’re a diabetic--it’s the height of counter-productiveness and idiocy. But enough about you.

I think I’d take the word over one of the producers that Janet has been working with CLOSELY IN THE STUDIO since 1986 over something that Rene Elizondo told some press outlets. Sorry. We all know that songs can be written anywhere, dickhead (I can name-call too!), but a lot of the writing they did happened in the studio as well. How the hell would Jimmy know? Because he’s one of her main producers, that’s why. As for what Janet told the press about it, well that was BEFORE they broke up. It was during THE VELVET ROPE era, when they were still very much business partners and lovers. I even remember how she promptly corrected Bill Bellamy on MTV about the pronunciation of his last name once. He was her man then, so I don’t put it pass her to say he co-wrote just about every song with her back then. Like I said, I highly doubt that Rene Elizondo Jr., a man who claimed that he signed a pre-nup “under duress” , would agree to not take credit for co-writing many songs just for the hell of it. If anything, he would be covering his bets just to take the damn credit just in case they’d ever divorce, so that way he’d at least get money for his writing. Unfortunately, his stories about the “many” songs he wrote with her matched what she’d said when they were an item, which is a hard lesson I’m sure she learned from (hence the reason songs like ALL FOR YOU’s “Son of a Gun” and “Truth” exist).

As for the frequency of your Janet discussions, well, I couldn’t care less, but I seriously doubt that this is the “first time you’ve discussed her in almost five years now.” Someone with such a passionate stance that you obviously have where Janet is concerned doesn’t just discuss the subject of his passion every five or so years, so you can save that shit for somebody who’d buy it. It’s touching that your other reason for being here is moi, but let me give you a little bit of info. You can troll and lie and lie and troll until you’re blue in the fucking face, but it won’t change a single opinion of those of us who admire Janet for the innovator that she is, nor will it change the history of her legendary career and all the accomplishments that go with it. It will, however, continue to make you look like the ass that you truly are. And your little foreshadowing about how this thread is going to be for me came about 12 pages too late, because I can say with the utmost certainty that 12 pages in--haters, trolls and all--what started out as a bait thread has become quite a source of entertainment for me. Signing off again from "Stan-Land"

Bloop......

Comparing a constructive janet critic and/or former fan (?) to DIABETES? You've reached an all time low for that.

SEANMAN said:

midnightmover said:

Aah, the deviousness continues. You just agreed with me that Janet did indeed say that Rene co-wrote her songs. But of course you added a lie to try and water down the truth. She never said he co-wrote her songs because she was in love with him. She simply said he co-wrote the songs and was not given credit for it. This is a fact, not an opinion. You are making yourself look extremely shady by refusing to simply admit that. For instance you've repeated the lie that she wrote Black Cat alone, even after she confirmed that Rene had been the uncredited co-writer of all those songs. You are absolutely shameless! If Rene had made false claims Janet would correct them. She hasn't. She's agreed with him publicly dozens of times. Are you accusing her of lying?

As for Jimmy Jam's comment how the hell would he know? Most songs are not written in the studio, dummy. Songs can be written anywhere. MJ wrote some of his biggest hits in a tree for godsakes. Billie Jean was largely composed in the back of his limousine. DSTYGE was a melody that came to him while he was walking around the house. By the same token if Rene had written Janet's lyrics or melodies J&L would not know unless they were told. Most songwriting is not done in the studio.

You are also being dishonest when you describe that four-second moment in the making-of-RN documentary. She did not "come up" with anything. Rene and someone else were discussing what order the moves (which the choreographer "came up" with) should be in. Janet suggested which move should follow which and the other two agreed. That is not "coming up" with anything. It's simply helping to solve a problem. But it's great that that four-second moment gives you something to hold on to. Lord knows Janet stans need every single straw they can get nowadays.

As for my spending time on a trivial subject like Janet, there are two points to be made. Firstly this is the first time I've discussed her in almost five years now. Barring some unforeseen circumstance it'll probably be the last. Secondly, the only reason I'm still here is because of you. You've been so obnoxious and sneaky that it's a point of principle now to throw some much needed reality onto the tsunami of bullshit you've been spewing. This thread is not gonna be a good one for you.

[Edited 8/14/14 12:13pm]

Dummy? That’s good. Nerve touched. Your spunk is cute, but it’s getting to the point now where I’m starting to feel some second-hand embarrassment for you. Throwing out some fable that you drummed up in your crazy head about what LA Reid said and how he felt about Janet is loony enough, but you have yet to provide proof (a link to an article, a video) of not only that, but various other pieces of fraudulent bullshit that you’ve been flippantly tossing off like some part of a weirdo manifest. That’s only but one reason why what you’re saying can only be taken with a grain of salt. Another thing that’s strange about you is, for a woman that you’ve called “trivial,” you appear to follow her career with a tenacity that not even some of her hardcore fans do. That you provided such vivid commentary on that making-of RN documentary is very telling (I’m sure you rushed right over to Youtube faster than the speed of light just so you could “prove me wrong”. You didn’t ). You’re like one of those psychotics who is fixated on a celebrity, claiming not to like them but secretly obsessing over them, which is the reason you know (or think you know) as much as you do. It’s disturbing yet funny at the same time. Even still, the question remains--why do you even care? If Janet Jackson is just some trivial person that you “rarely talk about”, then why are you investing your time? It’s like trying to justify why you eat cake all day when you’re a diabetic--it’s the height of counter-productiveness and idiocy. But enough about you.

I think I’d take the word over one of the producers that Janet has been working with CLOSELY IN THE STUDIO since 1986 over something that Rene Elizondo told some press outlets. Sorry. We all know that songs can be written anywhere, dickhead (I can name-call too!), but a lot of the writing they did happened in the studio as well. How the hell would Jimmy know? Because he’s one of her main producers, that’s why. As for what Janet told the press about it, well that was BEFORE they broke up. It was during THE VELVET ROPE era, when they were still very much business partners and lovers. I even remember how she promptly corrected Bill Bellamy on MTV about the pronunciation of his last name once. He was her man then, so I don’t put it pass her to say he co-wrote just about every song with her back then. Like I said, I highly doubt that Rene Elizondo Jr., a man who claimed that he signed a pre-nup “under duress” , would agree to not take credit for co-writing many songs just for the hell of it. If anything, he would be covering his bets just to take the damn credit just in case they’d ever divorce, so that way he’d at least get money for his writing. Unfortunately, his stories about the “many” songs he wrote with her matched what she’d said when they were an item, which is a hard lesson I’m sure she learned from (hence the reason songs like ALL FOR YOU’s “Son of a Gun” and “Truth” exist).

As for the frequency of your Janet discussions, well, I couldn’t care less, but I seriously doubt that this is the “first time you’ve discussed her in almost five years now.” Someone with such a passionate stance that you obviously have where Janet is concerned doesn’t just discuss the subject of his passion every five or so years, so you can save that shit for somebody who’d buy it. It’s touching that your other reason for being here is moi, but let me give you a little bit of info. You can troll and lie and lie and troll until you’re blue in the fucking face, but it won’t change a single opinion of those of us who admire Janet for the innovator that she is, nor will it change the history of her legendary career and all the accomplishments that go with it. It will, however, continue to make you look like the ass that you truly are. And your little foreshadowing about how this thread is going to be for me came about 12 pages too late, because I can say with the utmost certainty that 12 pages in--haters, trolls and all--what started out as a bait thread has become quite a source of entertainment for me. Signing off again from "Stan-Land"

This post is so high on childish insults and so low on intellectual content that I'm going to ignore most of it and focus instead on the heart of the matter. The first thing to point out is that you've just called Janet a liar. If Janet said Rene co-wrote her songs for ten years and you're saying he didn't then that means Janet is a liar. Since she said it DOZENS of times that means you're saying she lied dozens of times. Very nice thing to say about your idol.

Secondly, it's not true that she only said this before the divorce. I myself first found out about Rene's secret contributions in 2002 when I was in a waiting room and picked up a magazine that featured an interview with her. That was AFTER the divorce. All anyone needs to do here is apply an ounce of common sense. If Rene was lying about his contributions then Janet could've easily said so. Particularly around the time of "Son of a Gun" (which was about Rene's infidelity). Rene stated in legal documents that he co-wrote 37 released songs with Janet. Janet did not dispute this. Why not? The obvious answer is because it was true, but I'd be interested to see what creative excuses you can dream up to try and gloss over such an obvious point.

SEANMAN said:

midnightmover said:

Aah, the deviousness continues. You just agreed with me that Janet did indeed say that Rene co-wrote her songs. But of course you added a lie to try and water down the truth. She never said he co-wrote her songs because she was in love with him. She simply said he co-wrote the songs and was not given credit for it. This is a fact, not an opinion. You are making yourself look extremely shady by refusing to simply admit that. For instance you've repeated the lie that she wrote Black Cat alone, even after she confirmed that Rene had been the uncredited co-writer of all those songs. You are absolutely shameless! If Rene had made false claims Janet would correct them. She hasn't. She's agreed with him publicly dozens of times. Are you accusing her of lying?

As for Jimmy Jam's comment how the hell would he know? Most songs are not written in the studio, dummy. Songs can be written anywhere. MJ wrote some of his biggest hits in a tree for godsakes. Billie Jean was largely composed in the back of his limousine. DSTYGE was a melody that came to him while he was walking around the house. By the same token if Rene had written Janet's lyrics or melodies J&L would not know unless they were told. Most songwriting is not done in the studio.

You are also being dishonest when you describe that four-second moment in the making-of-RN documentary. She did not "come up" with anything. Rene and someone else were discussing what order the moves (which the choreographer "came up" with) should be in. Janet suggested which move should follow which and the other two agreed. That is not "coming up" with anything. It's simply helping to solve a problem. But it's great that that four-second moment gives you something to hold on to. Lord knows Janet stans need every single straw they can get nowadays.

As for my spending time on a trivial subject like Janet, there are two points to be made. Firstly this is the first time I've discussed her in almost five years now. Barring some unforeseen circumstance it'll probably be the last. Secondly, the only reason I'm still here is because of you. You've been so obnoxious and sneaky that it's a point of principle now to throw some much needed reality onto the tsunami of bullshit you've been spewing. This thread is not gonna be a good one for you.

[Edited 8/14/14 12:13pm]

Dummy? That’s good. Nerve touched. Your spunk is cute, but it’s getting to the point now where I’m starting to feel some second-hand embarrassment for you. Throwing out some fable that you drummed up in your crazy head about what LA Reid said and how he felt about Janet is loony enough, but you have yet to provide proof (a link to an article, a video) of not only that, but various other pieces of fraudulent bullshit that you’ve been flippantly tossing off like some part of a weirdo manifest. That’s only but one reason why what you’re saying can only be taken with a grain of salt. Another thing that’s strange about you is, for a woman that you’ve called “trivial,” you appear to follow her career with a tenacity that not even some of her hardcore fans do. That you provided such vivid commentary on that making-of RN documentary is very telling (I’m sure you rushed right over to Youtube faster than the speed of light just so you could “prove me wrong”. You didn’t ). You’re like one of those psychotics who is fixated on a celebrity, claiming not to like them but secretly obsessing over them, which is the reason you know (or think you know) as much as you do. It’s disturbing yet funny at the same time. Even still, the question remains--why do you even care? If Janet Jackson is just some trivial person that you “rarely talk about”, then why are you investing your time? It’s like trying to justify why you eat cake all day when you’re a diabetic--it’s the height of counter-productiveness and idiocy. But enough about you.

I think I’d take the word over one of the producers that Janet has been working with CLOSELY IN THE STUDIO since 1986 over something that Rene Elizondo told some press outlets. Sorry. We all know that songs can be written anywhere, dickhead (I can name-call too!), but a lot of the writing they did happened in the studio as well. How the hell would Jimmy know? Because he’s one of her main producers, that’s why. As for what Janet told the press about it, well that was BEFORE they broke up. It was during THE VELVET ROPE era, when they were still very much business partners and lovers. I even remember how she promptly corrected Bill Bellamy on MTV about the pronunciation of his last name once. He was her man then, so I don’t put it pass her to say he co-wrote just about every song with her back then. Like I said, I highly doubt that Rene Elizondo Jr., a man who claimed that he signed a pre-nup “under duress” , would agree to not take credit for co-writing many songs just for the hell of it. If anything, he would be covering his bets just to take the damn credit just in case they’d ever divorce, so that way he’d at least get money for his writing. Unfortunately, his stories about the “many” songs he wrote with her matched what she’d said when they were an item, which is a hard lesson I’m sure she learned from (hence the reason songs like ALL FOR YOU’s “Son of a Gun” and “Truth” exist).

As for the frequency of your Janet discussions, well, I couldn’t care less, but I seriously doubt that this is the “first time you’ve discussed her in almost five years now.” Someone with such a passionate stance that you obviously have where Janet is concerned doesn’t just discuss the subject of his passion every five or so years, so you can save that shit for somebody who’d buy it. It’s touching that your other reason for being here is moi, but let me give you a little bit of info. You can troll and lie and lie and troll until you’re blue in the fucking face, but it won’t change a single opinion of those of us who admire Janet for the innovator that she is, nor will it change the history of her legendary career and all the accomplishments that go with it. It will, however, continue to make you look like the ass that you truly are. And your little foreshadowing about how this thread is going to be for me came about 12 pages too late, because I can say with the utmost certainty that 12 pages in--haters, trolls and all--what started out as a bait thread has become quite a source of entertainment for me. Signing off again from "Stan-Land"

THIS. I dont trust L.A. Reid worth a damn. He said that he wanted to see Justin Bieber do a duet with MJ and said a overrated blond weave wearing heifa was the greatest entertainer ALIVE, greater than Prince and Janet? Really L.A? , He can miss me with that. It was messed up the way he did Janet when he was managing her and then he threw her under the bus.

Had Janet not existed we wouldn't have many of the female superstars we have today.She is so UNDERRATED and sadly in Europe - most people view her as Michael Jacksons little sister, which is a shame. I think had she been a male, she would have been more famous though. The woman can dance like a goddess and I always say this, anyone that can dance next to Michael (many did and many failed) and be on his level - is an amazing dancer. I also hate the Michael and Janet comparisons tho, I always did and always will - it is crazy, that we should compare siblings to one another especially with one being the most famous man on earth. Janet was an innovative artist and I'd say most of her 90s music still sounds great today. People loved her music in the 90s, not because of Michael Jacksons life but because she channeled the taste and aesthetics of this time. All I know is that Janet is amazing and I want her to come out with a new album – so I can see her live

in the end of the day, she's just that MJ's sister that made one of her tits famous...oh she had some hits 2!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Bloop......

midnightmover said:

SEANMAN said:

Dummy? That’s good. Nerve touched. Your spunk is cute, but it’s getting to the point now where I’m starting to feel some second-hand embarrassment for you. Throwing out some fable that you drummed up in your crazy head about what LA Reid said and how he felt about Janet is loony enough, but you have yet to provide proof (a link to an article, a video) of not only that, but various other pieces of fraudulent bullshit that you’ve been flippantly tossing off like some part of a weirdo manifest. That’s only but one reason why what you’re saying can only be taken with a grain of salt. Another thing that’s strange about you is, for a woman that you’ve called “trivial,” you appear to follow her career with a tenacity that not even some of her hardcore fans do. That you provided such vivid commentary on that making-of RN documentary is very telling (I’m sure you rushed right over to Youtube faster than the speed of light just so you could “prove me wrong”. You didn’t ). You’re like one of those psychotics who is fixated on a celebrity, claiming not to like them but secretly obsessing over them, which is the reason you know (or think you know) as much as you do. It’s disturbing yet funny at the same time. Even still, the question remains--why do you even care? If Janet Jackson is just some trivial person that you “rarely talk about”, then why are you investing your time? It’s like trying to justify why you eat cake all day when you’re a diabetic--it’s the height of counter-productiveness and idiocy. But enough about you.

I think I’d take the word over one of the producers that Janet has been working with CLOSELY IN THE STUDIO since 1986 over something that Rene Elizondo told some press outlets. Sorry. We all know that songs can be written anywhere, dickhead (I can name-call too!), but a lot of the writing they did happened in the studio as well. How the hell would Jimmy know? Because he’s one of her main producers, that’s why. As for what Janet told the press about it, well that was BEFORE they broke up. It was during THE VELVET ROPE era, when they were still very much business partners and lovers. I even remember how she promptly corrected Bill Bellamy on MTV about the pronunciation of his last name once. He was her man then, so I don’t put it pass her to say he co-wrote just about every song with her back then. Like I said, I highly doubt that Rene Elizondo Jr., a man who claimed that he signed a pre-nup “under duress” , would agree to not take credit for co-writing many songs just for the hell of it. If anything, he would be covering his bets just to take the damn credit just in case they’d ever divorce, so that way he’d at least get money for his writing. Unfortunately, his stories about the “many” songs he wrote with her matched what she’d said when they were an item, which is a hard lesson I’m sure she learned from (hence the reason songs like ALL FOR YOU’s “Son of a Gun” and “Truth” exist).

As for the frequency of your Janet discussions, well, I couldn’t care less, but I seriously doubt that this is the “first time you’ve discussed her in almost five years now.” Someone with such a passionate stance that you obviously have where Janet is concerned doesn’t just discuss the subject of his passion every five or so years, so you can save that shit for somebody who’d buy it. It’s touching that your other reason for being here is moi, but let me give you a little bit of info. You can troll and lie and lie and troll until you’re blue in the fucking face, but it won’t change a single opinion of those of us who admire Janet for the innovator that she is, nor will it change the history of her legendary career and all the accomplishments that go with it. It will, however, continue to make you look like the ass that you truly are. And your little foreshadowing about how this thread is going to be for me came about 12 pages too late, because I can say with the utmost certainty that 12 pages in--haters, trolls and all--what started out as a bait thread has become quite a source of entertainment for me. Signing off again from "Stan-Land"

This post is so high on childish insults and so low on intellectual content that I'm going to ignore most of it and focus instead on the heart of the matter. The first thing to point out is that you've just called Janet a liar. If Janet said Rene co-wrote her songs for ten years and you're saying he didn't then that means Janet is a liar. Since she said it DOZENS of times that means you're saying she lied dozens of times. Very nice thing to say about your idol.

Secondly, it's not true that she only said this before the divorce. I myself first found out about Rene's secret contributions in 2002 when I was in a waiting room and picked up a magazine that featured an interview with her. That was AFTER the divorce. All anyone needs to do here is apply an ounce of common sense. If Rene was lying about his contributions then Janet could've easily said so. Particularly around the time of "Son of a Gun" (which was about Rene's infidelity). Rene stated in legal documents that he co-wrote 37 released songs with Janet. Janet did not dispute this. Why not? The obvious answer is because it was true, but I'd be interested to see what creative excuses you can dream up to try and gloss over such an obvious point.

Ignore me? You could NEVER! Janet hasn’t exactly been truthful about several things. She was also untruthful about her longtime marriage to Elizondo. Whether she hides/covers up certain things just to maintain a certain sense of privacy (which can be totally understood given what people as famous as she is have to put up with at times), or just because she feels it’s none of the public’s business is not up to her fans to decipher. It is not our job to be a moral compass for Janet Jackson. What we derive pleasure from is listening to the music, watching the videos and attending the concerts. So, the real question that still begs to be asked is, what is your point (other than being a complete annoyance)? As I’ve told you SEVERAL TIMES before, Janet is a writer. She’s penned several songs and/or co-written the bulk of her output since 1986. I don’t know if you, being a troll and all, are just gleaning a weird sense of pleasure from trying to draw attention to a limp opinion that Janet Jackson doesn’t co-write her songs, or what. Whatever your agenda is, it’s unbecoming and kind of sad. Whether or not Rene co-wrote several songs with her or none at all, your opinion on the subject is pointless because she’s just a trivial figure that you never even discuss, right? Even if I believed that you “picked up a magazine in a waiting room in 2002” , your opinion on the subject still wouldn’t matter. In 2002, Janet had already begun dating Jermaine Dupri, and I really don’t recall her giving any interviews around that time that concerned Rene Elizondo. So, to sum it all up, I will just continue to chalk you up as a person who has a really bitter grudge against Janet (or her fans, which would be hilarious) and has let his imagination run away with him.

[Edited 8/16/14 14:42pm]

mjscarousal said:

SEANMAN said:

Dummy? That’s good. Nerve touched. Your spunk is cute, but it’s getting to the point now where I’m starting to feel some second-hand embarrassment for you. Throwing out some fable that you drummed up in your crazy head about what LA Reid said and how he felt about Janet is loony enough, but you have yet to provide proof (a link to an article, a video) of not only that, but various other pieces of fraudulent bullshit that you’ve been flippantly tossing off like some part of a weirdo manifest. That’s only but one reason why what you’re saying can only be taken with a grain of salt. Another thing that’s strange about you is, for a woman that you’ve called “trivial,” you appear to follow her career with a tenacity that not even some of her hardcore fans do. That you provided such vivid commentary on that making-of RN documentary is very telling (I’m sure you rushed right over to Youtube faster than the speed of light just so you could “prove me wrong”. You didn’t ). You’re like one of those psychotics who is fixated on a celebrity, claiming not to like them but secretly obsessing over them, which is the reason you know (or think you know) as much as you do. It’s disturbing yet funny at the same time. Even still, the question remains--why do you even care? If Janet Jackson is just some trivial person that you “rarely talk about”, then why are you investing your time? It’s like trying to justify why you eat cake all day when you’re a diabetic--it’s the height of counter-productiveness and idiocy. But enough about you.

I think I’d take the word over one of the producers that Janet has been working with CLOSELY IN THE STUDIO since 1986 over something that Rene Elizondo told some press outlets. Sorry. We all know that songs can be written anywhere, dickhead (I can name-call too!), but a lot of the writing they did happened in the studio as well. How the hell would Jimmy know? Because he’s one of her main producers, that’s why. As for what Janet told the press about it, well that was BEFORE they broke up. It was during THE VELVET ROPE era, when they were still very much business partners and lovers. I even remember how she promptly corrected Bill Bellamy on MTV about the pronunciation of his last name once. He was her man then, so I don’t put it pass her to say he co-wrote just about every song with her back then. Like I said, I highly doubt that Rene Elizondo Jr., a man who claimed that he signed a pre-nup “under duress” , would agree to not take credit for co-writing many songs just for the hell of it. If anything, he would be covering his bets just to take the damn credit just in case they’d ever divorce, so that way he’d at least get money for his writing. Unfortunately, his stories about the “many” songs he wrote with her matched what she’d said when they were an item, which is a hard lesson I’m sure she learned from (hence the reason songs like ALL FOR YOU’s “Son of a Gun” and “Truth” exist).

As for the frequency of your Janet discussions, well, I couldn’t care less, but I seriously doubt that this is the “first time you’ve discussed her in almost five years now.” Someone with such a passionate stance that you obviously have where Janet is concerned doesn’t just discuss the subject of his passion every five or so years, so you can save that shit for somebody who’d buy it. It’s touching that your other reason for being here is moi, but let me give you a little bit of info. You can troll and lie and lie and troll until you’re blue in the fucking face, but it won’t change a single opinion of those of us who admire Janet for the innovator that she is, nor will it change the history of her legendary career and all the accomplishments that go with it. It will, however, continue to make you look like the ass that you truly are. And your little foreshadowing about how this thread is going to be for me came about 12 pages too late, because I can say with the utmost certainty that 12 pages in--haters, trolls and all--what started out as a bait thread has become quite a source of entertainment for me. Signing off again from "Stan-Land"

THIS. I dont trust L.A. Reid worth a damn. He said that he wanted to see Justin Bieber do a duet with MJ and said a overrated blond weave wearing heifa was the greatest entertainer ALIVE, greater than Prince and Janet? Really L.A? , He can miss me with that. It was messed up the way he did Janet when he was managing her and then he threw her under the bus.

Yeah, Reid is pretty shady. Anytime Pebbles called him out on several occasions, then you know that something's up. The laundry list of LaFace acts who've had hardships gives credibility to it as well. I don't blame Janet for getting out when she could (but not before giving them a #1 album, of course )

[Edited 8/15/14 18:28pm]

GoldDolphin said:

Had Janet not existed we wouldn't have many of the female superstars we have today.She is so UNDERRATED and sadly in Europe - most people view her as Michael Jacksons little sister, which is a shame. I think had she been a male, she would have been more famous though. The woman can dance like a goddess and I always say this, anyone that can dance next to Michael (many did and many failed) and be on his level - is an amazing dancer. I also hate the Michael and Janet comparisons tho, I always did and always will - it is crazy, that we should compare siblings to one another especially with one being the most famous man on earth. Janet was an innovative artist and I'd say most of her 90s music still sounds great today. People loved her music in the 90s, not because of Michael Jacksons life but because she channeled the taste and aesthetics of this time. All I know is that Janet is amazing and I want her to come out with a new album – so I can see her live

Agreed. I’m excited about her new project too. And yes, she’s an excellent dancer. I even preferred the way she performed the dance break in the SCREAM video over the way MJ did it, although they both slayed that part. And underrated is right. I’ve never seen an artist who literally inspired generations after him or her to be so overlooked by the media in general. Don’t get me wrong, she has gotten props over the years, but it’s too few and far between. And when you get people like the trolls in this thread who are coming for her in droves by denouncing her career and calling her a fraud and a puppet, it just brings the point home that there are a lot of people out there who are woefully uniformed and need proper “schooling”. I am more than happy to teach.

go2theMax said:

in the end of the day, she's a global icon who's so influential that even one of her tits made waves the world over...oh she's had massive amounts of hits 2!

Fixed that for you