Janet is only famous because of her last name. We all know that sharing Latoya Jackson's last name will bring you instant fame and success whoever you are. Latoya's shadow is big, but it does let the spotlight pass.

BlackCat1985 said:

midnightmover said:

Jesus, you two are not the sharpest tools in the box, are you? You seriously think I don't know that Janet came out before Britney? Use your heads, guys. Of course Janet came first, but that's not the point. Duh! The point is that both of them are completely dependent on choreographers. They are MANUFACTURED artists in every sense of the word.

Janet had better producers and a mentor and co-writer who did a great job of guiding her career (Rene Elizondo), but had she come along 17 years later and been white instead of black she could've easily had an identical career to Spears. They have the same level of talent. Jennifer Lopez is another one of these soulless puppets merely executing her choreographer's instructions. You guys can't see this because, well, as we've established, you're not the sharpest tools in the box.

As for Janet's dancing being more varied than Janet's that is simply a reflection of the fact that he had a style and she didn't. He synthesized elements from street dance, Bob Fosse, etc. and made something distinctly his own. That's what ARTISTS do. Janet was not an artist though. Her style was whatever the choreographers gave her.

And as for the lyrical content, again, you seem to have forgotten the public confession Janet made in 1997/8. What we found out then was that Rene had been "co-writing" her songs for years as well as guiding her whole career. She said she had felt guilty giving interviews claiming credit for his ideas. After he left her career was never the same and the songwriting took a massive turn for the worse. The lyrics particularly became ATROCIOUS at that point. Absolutely appalling. However much Rene got paid after their divorce he deserved every penny. Without him, her career became a train-wreck and an embarrassment. Pretty much everyone who's not a besotted fan can see this.

Ummm! I wonder whose career Rene is guiding now since he was responsible for Janet's. Oh I forgot he's somewhere trying to sell cell phone cases for a living. And thats no joke that's something he does now. If he was so great then what was stopping him from continuing to do great things without Janet. Please explain that to me! Jimmy Jam himself said that he never saw Rene writing anything. You try so hard to discount everything Janet has accomplished. Not giving her credit for anything. A lot of the stuff you say is straight up hate and can be said for damn near any artist past and present. [Edited 8/7/14 10:25am]

Rene put more than a decade of his life into Janet's career and as we know they were more than working partners, they were also lovers. That can never be reproduced. He'd have to start from scratch with some unknown who would be 15-20 years younger than him. It wouldn't be the same. I don't blame him for walking away.

And let's be clear about this. There is absolutely no dispute about the fact that Rene was co-writing her material. That is not an opinion, that is a fact, unless you're suggesting that Janet was lying about it in the dozens of interviews where she admitted it.

midnightmover said:

BlackCat1985 said:

midnightmover said: Ummm! I wonder whose career Rene is guiding now since he was responsible for Janet's. Oh I forgot he's somewhere trying to sell cell phone cases for a living. And thats no joke that's something he does now. If he was so great then what was stopping him from continuing to do great things without Janet. Please explain that to me! Jimmy Jam himself said that he never saw Rene writing anything. You try so hard to discount everything Janet has accomplished. Not giving her credit for anything. A lot of the stuff you say is straight up hate and can be said for damn near any artist past and present. [Edited 8/7/14 10:25am]

Rene put more than a decade of his life into Janet's career and as we know they were more than working partners, they were also lovers. That can never be reproduced. He'd have to start from scratch with some unknown who would be 15-20 years younger than him. It wouldn't be the same. I don't blame him for walking away.

And let's be clear about this. There is absolutely no dispute about the fact that Rene was co-writing her material. That is not an opinion, that is a fact, unless you're suggesting that Janet was lying about it in the dozens of interviews where she admitted it.

Midnightmover...that name sounds familiar to me. Weren't you a guy who used to (probably still does) hate MJ and have discussions with MJfans? Remember an user called MOL? Remember having fights with that user? Remember? Like, 4 years ago or something close. Remember how that user defended MJ with a passion against your evil self? 'Member? Well, that user is me 4 years later. And 4 years later I must say, with equal passion, that you were right in everything you said. I remember you stopped posting and then I left. 4 years later I come back and here I see you again. What a good sight and what good reads. Great to hear from you!!!

I will look forward to your posts, midnight! What a great surprise!

Best.

Thread.

Of.

The.

Year.

Schubert said:

Schubert said:

She was Mikey's Sister, was very attractive, had big tits and made all the boys boner goners. She had lots of help by expert song writers, infused with Prince's fire. She was taught by handlers how to dance, how to flirt, but not appear to slutty. She was Apolonia with better pr and a bit more talent. She was sold like cereal and the kids ate her up. The songs do matter, but she did not make the songs, the songs made her. Later she had to show a tit just to seem relevant with Madonna porn culture.

She is now pretty much boring, even when the Michael shadow is Forest Lawn strong. Tito is still not amused.

midnightmover said:

Janet addicts: who has more talent, Janet or Adele? Crickets.

BlackCat1985 said:

Schubert said:

Midnightmover...that name sounds familiar to me. Weren't you a guy who used to (probably still does) hate MJ and have discussions with MJfans? Remember an user called MOL? Remember having fights with that user? Remember? Like, 4 years ago or something close. Remember how that user defended MJ with a passion against your evil self? 'Member? Well, that user is me 4 years later. And 4 years later I must say, with equal passion, that you were right in everything you said. I remember you stopped posting and then I left. 4 years later I come back and here I see you again. What a good sight and what good reads. Great to hear from you!!!

Lol! This is some creepy shit right here. So Midnightmover is a Jackson hater and you are a Mj Stan! It all makes sense now! Looks like Midnightmover has moved on to hate on Janet too! [Edited 8/7/14 13:56pm] [Edited 8/7/14 13:59pm]

Someone has interpretation problems. I am not a MJ stan. Quite the opposite. I USED to be a MJ stan and, back then, have fights with Midnight. Now, now that I dislike MJ, I see midnight as right.

Schubert said:

midnightmover said:

Rene put more than a decade of his life into Janet's career and as we know they were more than working partners, they were also lovers. That can never be reproduced. He'd have to start from scratch with some unknown who would be 15-20 years younger than him. It wouldn't be the same. I don't blame him for walking away.

And let's be clear about this. There is absolutely no dispute about the fact that Rene was co-writing her material. That is not an opinion, that is a fact, unless you're suggesting that Janet was lying about it in the dozens of interviews where she admitted it.

Midnightmover...that name sounds familiar to me. Weren't you a guy who used to (probably still does) hate MJ and have discussions with MJfans? Remember an user called MOL? Remember having fights with that user? Remember? Like, 4 years ago or something close. Remember how that user defended MJ with a passion against your evil self? 'Member? Well, that user is me 4 years later. And 4 years later I must say, with equal passion, that you were right in everything you said. I remember you stopped posting and then I left. 4 years later I come back and here I see you again. What a good sight and what good reads. Great to hear from you!!!

Wow, that's amazing. Thanks, dude. Yeah, the name rings a bell.

It's funny. You're the second passionate MJ fan who thought I was the devil who later reached out to say that I was right after all. It's good to know that some folks can have those breakthroughs.

And no, I don't argue with MJ fans much anymore. I don't actually post in this forum too much nowadays. Just once in a while when the mood takes me. Good to hear from you though.

midnightmover said:

Schubert said:

Midnightmover...that name sounds familiar to me. Weren't you a guy who used to (probably still does) hate MJ and have discussions with MJfans? Remember an user called MOL? Remember having fights with that user? Remember? Like, 4 years ago or something close. Remember how that user defended MJ with a passion against your evil self? 'Member? Well, that user is me 4 years later. And 4 years later I must say, with equal passion, that you were right in everything you said. I remember you stopped posting and then I left. 4 years later I come back and here I see you again. What a good sight and what good reads. Great to hear from you!!!

Wow, that's amazing. Thanks, dude. Yeah, the name rings a bell.

It's funny. You're the second passionate MJ fan who thought I was the devil who later reached out to say that I was right after all. It's good to know that some folks can have those breakthroughs.

And no, I don't argue with MJ fans much anymore. I don't actually post in this forum too much nowadays. Just once in a while when the mood takes me. Good to hear from you though.

To me, MJ was God. My posts as MOL are still available I suppose. One can read them and realize how much I adored, venerated the very ground he walked on. To me, he could do no wrong. Well, he could actually: he was too giving, too compassionate. You know, the single greatest human being on Earth since Jesus Christ walked the streets of Jerusalem.

You were the Anti-Christ to us, The Floons. You spewed the truths we wanted nothing to do with, pointed out the facts we vehemently dismissed and spited the words we hated to read. I, along with my loyal army of MJ fans for L.O.V.E. and justice-for-this-world-and-the-other, argued with you constantly.

Fast forward 4 or 5 years, and here I am, a diferente person. I am no longer a MJ fan. Better: I have nothing but disdain and dislike for the man. Worse, I don’t even like his music. He could be a weirdo and a pedophile that, if his music was good, I wouldn’t give a flying crap about his personal life. It would compensate. But it doesn’t. His music is cheesy, teenagey-driven, bubblegum crap. It’s as if the truth had hit me, as If I had seen the light: you were absolutely correct. In every point, in every area and in every argument. You were not a hater, just a common sense user and I, as your typical floon, was completely crazy, deprived of anything remotely associated with those two words. Then, 3 or 4 years ago, I started losing my interest in MJ, something which coincided with me living a happier, healthier personal life and welcoming common sense into it. The coincidence, right? (NOT!). Funny how, just some weeks ago, revewing my crazy self as a floon, I thought about you! You! The man who was right in every word but still had a gazillion people against him. Like a former drug addict revewing his addiction, I thought about how crazy and how blind I could be.

Stand your ground midnightlover. As crazy as some fans might be, everything is easier when the truth is on your side. I also rarely post on prince.org anymore and, most of the time, it is to pose as Latoya’s fangirl for the sake of cheap, quick entertainment. Now that I think about it, I remembre one day you said and I quote: “Only people who are emotionally down, depressed, are MJ fans.”. Looking back, that fitted me to a T.

A big kiss to you! And don’t cal me dude: I’m a chick!

Rene spent his entire time in the business "assisting" Janet; being everything from her coat carrier to exploited eye candy lover to silent songwriter/album conceptulizer/manager...so my guess is that the reason why he wasn't able to continue working after her is because she monopolized his time and talents during their relationship so much that he didn't build very many industry connections that went beyond her. He was the brains behind her brand, but hell she was the star. So even if today he is somewhere selling cellphone cases or whatever, that doesn't mean that his contributions to her career weren't significant or that his capabilities aren't legitimate.

The truth remains, however, that the quality of Janet's work and organization of her career took an immediate turn for the worse after he left her orbit. Coincidence? Probably not. The things you do for love. Rene should have protected himself more to ensure he'd get his fair credit and share. I guess he learned that people will use you if you let them.

Funny how some peeps end up hating a musical artist with the same obsessive energy that they once worshipped their idol with. Wake up, people... These are human beings, not deities. And it's called music not religion.

I agree she's like Britney Spears, but I think Britney Spears can be pretty fun. Just put a sexy chick in a studio with some great songs, film some fun videos, and call it a day. that's not an insult. it's an ingredient for a party.

Mintchip said:

I agree she's like Britney Spears, but I think Britney Spears can be pretty fun. Just put a sexy chick in a studio with some great songs, film some fun videos, and call it a day. that's not an insult. it's an ingredient for a party.

actually,that is an insult Britney Spears is a talentless puppet.If I were a Janet fan,I'd be pissed at that comparison.

Qazz said:

Rene spent his entire time in the business "assisting" Janet; being everything from her coat carrier to exploited eye candy lover to silent songwriter/album conceptulizer/manager...so my guess is that the reason why he wasn't able to continue working after her is because she monopolized his time and talents during their relationship so much that he didn't build very many industry connections that went beyond her. He was the brains behind her brand, but hell she was the star. So even if today he is somewhere selling cellphone cases or whatever, that doesn't mean that his contributions to her career weren't significant or that his capabilities aren't legitimate.

The truth remains, however, that the quality of Janet's work and organization of her career took an immediate turn for the worse after he left her orbit. Coincidence? Probably not. The things you do for love. Rene should have protected himself more to ensure he'd get his fair credit and share. I guess he learned that people will use you if you let them.

-

-

WOW! Really? Are you serious? Probably so, based on your previous post. That highlighted statement is unbelievable considering her history with Jimmy & Terry. Jimmy Jam has always credited Janet's songwriting capabilities and contribution in general to their work together. That statement is also dismissive to Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis' talents as well. I guess anything positive Jimmy or Terry says about her isn't credible huh? That's cool though. You have every right to believe what you want. Makes no difference to me.

-

Rene was a visual guy. As a matter of fact, I loved his direction of "That's The Way Loves Goes." She looked naturally beautiful and sexy. However, brainstorming with Janet and coming up with concepts together doesn't somehow omit her contribution. Likewise with choreographers, she has the final word on what stays and what goes. Again, she's more of a collaborator than dictator. That just seems to be her personality. Even her brother Michael had choreographers and took direction in learning choreography. So, why it's acceptable for one artist (not just Michael) to be respected for collaborating with other people, but with her she's labeled a puppet is beyond me. Don't get it. I mean it's not like she has a history of claiming credit for stuff she didn't create. I seem to always recall her always showing love or shining light on her supporting cast.

-

Oh well, carry on...

It's not dismissive of Jam and Lewis's talent. I've been saying throughout this thread that they were the real talent behind her music, but there's more to a music career than music. There's videos, there's marketing, there's promotion, there's branding, there's advertising, there's negotiating, etc., etc. From what I can tell, JJ&TL role in her career pretty much ended at the studio door. That's where people like John McClain and later Rene came in. And as far as creative input goes, Jimmy Jam once said in an interview that *much* of what was done with the production of RN1814 were ideas that came from Rene. So I stand behind what I said, Jam & Lewis were the talent behind her music, but Rene was the brains behind her brand. He picked up where they'd leave off.

go2theMax said:

SEANMAN said:

Oooh, I guess you told me, huh? Child, go over in the corner and

go yourself, freak!

BlackCat1985 said:

midnightmover said:

Jesus, you two are not the sharpest tools in the box, are you? You seriously think I don't know that Janet came out before Britney? Use your heads, guys. Of course Janet came first, but that's not the point. Duh! The point is that both of them are completely dependent on choreographers. They are MANUFACTURED artists in every sense of the word.

Janet had better producers and a mentor and co-writer who did a great job of guiding her career (Rene Elizondo), but had she come along 17 years later and been white instead of black she could've easily had an identical career to Spears. They have the same level of talent. Jennifer Lopez is another one of these soulless puppets merely executing her choreographer's instructions. You guys can't see this because, well, as we've established, you're not the sharpest tools in the box.

As for Janet's dancing being more varied than Janet's that is simply a reflection of the fact that he had a style and she didn't. He synthesized elements from street dance, Bob Fosse, etc. and made something distinctly his own. That's what ARTISTS do. Janet was not an artist though. Her style was whatever the choreographers gave her.

And as for the lyrical content, again, you seem to have forgotten the public confession Janet made in 1997/8. What we found out then was that Rene had been "co-writing" her songs for years as well as guiding her whole career. She said she had felt guilty giving interviews claiming credit for his ideas. After he left her career was never the same and the songwriting took a massive turn for the worse. The lyrics particularly became ATROCIOUS at that point. Absolutely appalling. However much Rene got paid after their divorce he deserved every penny. Without him, her career became a train-wreck and an embarrassment. Pretty much everyone who's not a besotted fan can see this.

Ummm! I wonder whose career Rene is guiding now since he was responsible for Janet's. Oh I forgot he's somewhere trying to sell cell phone cases for a living. And thats no joke that's something he does now. If he was so great then what was stopping him from continuing to do great things without Janet. Please explain that to me! Jimmy Jam himself said that he never saw Rene writing anything. You try so hard to discount everything Janet has accomplished. Not giving her credit for anything. A lot of the stuff you say is straight up hate and can be said for damn near any artist past and present. [Edited 8/7/14 10:25am]

Exactly. Jimmy has explicitly said that he never saw Rene pick up a pen and write anything. Rene helped with visuals and may have inserted a lyric here or there during TVR era, but when he came out during the divorce and claimed to have co-written BLACK CAT, I knew dude was on some Bull Shit. Janet probably let him have a co-writing credit "because of love" (no pun intended).

[Edited 8/8/14 19:08pm]

midnightmover said:

Scorp said:

unreal.......the commentary is getting worse by the minute

Janet released her first album in 1982

Spears first release occured in 1999

professionaly, Janet is 17 years Spears's senior but yet she is supposed to be "following" Britney

I think the music industry and what's left of it should just close up shop and just call it a day

the pop ascension has destroyed all perspective

what's the saying, it's not what we know but what we NEED to know

Jesus, you two are not the sharpest tools in the box, are you? You seriously think I don't know that Janet came out before Britney? Use your heads, guys. Of course Janet came first, but that's not the point. Duh! The point is that both of them are completely dependent on choreographers. They are MANUFACTURED artists in every sense of the word.

Janet had better producers and a mentor and co-writer who did a great job of guiding her career (Rene Elizondo), but had she come along 17 years later and been white instead of black she could've easily had an identical career to Spears. They have the same level of talent. Jennifer Lopez is another one of these soulless puppets merely executing her choreographer's instructions. You guys can't see this because, well, as we've established, you're not the sharpest tools in the box.

As for Janet's dancing being more varied than Michael's that is simply a reflection of the fact that he had a style and she didn't. He synthesized elements from street dance, Bob Fosse, etc. and made something distinctly his own. That's what ARTISTS do. Janet was not an artist though. Her style was whatever the choreographers gave her.

And as for the lyrical content, again, you seem to have forgotten the public confession Janet made in 1997/8. What we found out then was that Rene had been "co-writing" her songs for years as well as guiding her whole career. She said she had felt guilty giving interviews claiming credit for his ideas. After he left her career was never the same and the songwriting took a massive turn for the worse. The lyrics particularly became ATROCIOUS at that point. Absolutely appalling. However much Rene got paid after their divorce he deserved every penny. Without him, her career became a train-wreck and an embarrassment. Pretty much everyone who's not a besotted fan can see this.

Even if you weren't just a troll, and had legitimately typed "Janet Jackson is the black Britney Spears" with a straight face, I'd still think you were nothing more than an idiot with some sort of weird axe to grind against Janet. No matter what you think of her talent, to put Janet Jackson, a woman who has co-written the bulk of her output, helped lead the path for today's pop performers and created an image that generations of performers have followed, in the same sentence as Britney Spears, saying the only difference between them is race, is proof that you are full of shit. As for the dancing, Michael Jackson did not choreograph Thriller or Bad or any other piece of work by himself. He had choreographers doing it for him. He did not write many of his hits by himself. Rod Temperton, Quincy Jones and, later, Teddy Riley and R. Kelly were responsible for many of his hits. It was apparent during his last album that whatever mo-jo or creative partnership he had with those people was long gone (besides the fact that he wasn't working with them anymore--DARKCHILD ain't no Quincy J), hence the reason there was no real magic in INVINCIBLE. Janet also had choreographers, but she also helped co-choreograph several pieces during the RN project and several of the albums that followed. Her albums are based off of what is happening in HER life, which makes her the spearhead of where her albums will go from a visual and a lyrical standpoint. Her lyrical content post-VR and whether or not it was "up to par" is subjective, but some of her best songs came after that period. And her career was certainly not a "train wreck" when she and Rene spilt. If I do recall, she would reap her highest first-week sales ever, a couple more #1 and #2 albums and more hits AFTER he was out of the picture. Whatever else happened to her career was an after-effect of the SB incident. Blacklisting will do that kind of thing to you. Oh, and you're still an idiot. It bears repeating.

BlackCat1985 said:

midnightmover said:

Jesus, you two are not the sharpest tools in the box, are you? You seriously think I don't know that Janet came out before Britney? Use your heads, guys. Of course Janet came first, but that's not the point. Duh! The point is that both of them are completely dependent on choreographers. They are MANUFACTURED artists in every sense of the word.

Janet had better producers and a mentor and co-writer who did a great job of guiding her career (Rene Elizondo), but had she come along 17 years later and been white instead of black she could've easily had an identical career to Spears. They have the same level of talent. Jennifer Lopez is another one of these soulless puppets merely executing her choreographer's instructions. You guys can't see this because, well, as we've established, you're not the sharpest tools in the box.

As for Janet's dancing being more varied than Janet's that is simply a reflection of the fact that he had a style and she didn't. He synthesized elements from street dance, Bob Fosse, etc. and made something distinctly his own. That's what ARTISTS do. Janet was not an artist though. Her style was whatever the choreographers gave her.

And as for the lyrical content, again, you seem to have forgotten the public confession Janet made in 1997/8. What we found out then was that Rene had been "co-writing" her songs for years as well as guiding her whole career. She said she had felt guilty giving interviews claiming credit for his ideas. After he left her career was never the same and the songwriting took a massive turn for the worse. The lyrics particularly became ATROCIOUS at that point. Absolutely appalling. However much Rene got paid after their divorce he deserved every penny. Without him, her career became a train-wreck and an embarrassment. Pretty much everyone who's not a besotted fan can see this.

Ummm! I wonder whose career Rene is guiding now since he was responsible for Janet's. Oh I forgot he's somewhere trying to sell cell phone cases for a living.

If he was the "Svengali" that many in here are making him out to be, wouldn't he be up to his goatee in clients by now?

BlackCat1985 said:

Free2BMe said:

I am glad somone else brought up the FACT that Janet ADMITTED on national TV that Rene had co-written some of her biggest hits and she had never given him credit for it. I posted this on this org. and Janet stans had a nervous breakdown denying that FACT. I also like your synopis of the comparison of Janet's choregraphed moves as compared to the artistry of Michael's dancing.

Another hateful Mj stan! I could say a lot but I won't it might break your heart.

They're a toxic, sad lot. Not all of them, but many of them are purely delusional. Hey, I LOVE MJ, and grew with his music as the soundtrack to my life, but he could use a better fanbase than some of the loons still here representing him. They even came for Janet when she spoke to the press about her relationship with him and how much she misses him. I hope these latest allegations coming out about him haven't driven too many of them over the edge.

Qazz said:

Janet has 10 studio albums: (1) Janet Jackson (2) Dream Street (3) Control (4) Rhythm Nation (5) janet. (6) The Velvet Rope (7) All For You (8) Damita Jo (9) 20 Y.O. (10) Discipline Debuting at #1 or #2 doesn't make an album a hit (anyone can get a #1 album if there's lite competition that week), nor does being certified platinum. Damita Jo barely sold a million in the US (and it took her a good while to do that) - during a time when hit albums were still going 5,6,7,8,9,10x platinum, less than 1/2 of the album that came before it and had no top 40 charting singles...20 Y.O. didn't even sell 700,000 copies Stateside, despite its "platinum" shipment, and barely sold a million worldwide...Janet Jackson, Dream Street and Discipline all have no certification; failing to even reach Gold status. So the point remains, half of Janet's discography flopped. Her five hit albums were her third through seventh, the two that came before and three that came after tanked. What makes an album a hit is its lasting and overall impact and Janet hasn't had an album that's had that since pre-9/11. Quality wise, Control and Rhythm Nation 1814 were exceptional...fine, sure, I'll concede to that. janet. and TVR were OK (but both are severely overrated IMO.) JJ, DS, AFY, DJ, 20 Y.O. and Discipline were all garbage. Doesn't matter that AFY was technically a success, quality-wise the album is hideous and seemed to set the stage for the follow-up's to be as well. As a viable pop star, Janet's been over for more than a decade. Maybe that's why her fans are so desperate to see her inducted into the R&RHOF. Perhaps after three consecutive albums that failed to ignite a comeback, and her nearing 50, they finally concede to the reality that the splendor of 1989 ain't coming back and need something else to cling to in order to feel good. But last I heard the committee wasn't too keen on even considering her. [Edited 8/7/14 16:49pm]

Clearly, when you speak of half of her output being “flops”, you’re speaking of charting placement and sales, and not the “longevity” of the album as you claim. It could be argued that for an artist who was blacklisted (which Janet most certainly was, post SB) to have two albums debut at #2 and another one at #1, with two of them going on to be platinum and/or multi-platinum worldwide, is quite a feat. And, if that is the case, then DJ and 20 YO alone would be excluded from your little “flops” list. And therefore, your math is still off. I mean, you are the person claiming that The Velvet Rope, one of the most critically-heralded pop/R&B albums of 1997, is overrated, right? And speaking of “lasting impact”, not only has All For You inspired the sound and image of many a female pop act that followed it (with one critic saying at the time that Janet “leaves the blonde chicks in the dust” in his review of the album), but Damita Jo (a “POST 9/11” album) seems to be doing just fine in that department as well. The oft-mentioned Britney Spears even patterned her last CD after DJ, down to the title of the record and the themes in the album (she has said so herself). Janet being a “viable pop star” today, and if “the splendor of 1989” (whatever the hell that means) will return is a weak argument built up by people like you who seem to hold some sort of weird grudge. What do you care? You’re not a fan, right? She has surpassed the point in her career where she still has to compete, and that is because she is a POP ICON. The “splendor” never left. And as for your other assessment about Janet fans using her past glories to cling on to, well…no. I can look at the plethora of pop acts today and over the past twenty some-odd years who have mimicked the things that Janet has already done and smile. That’s what I feel good about. And that is what proves her iconic status. And, since you mentioned the R&R HOF (as all anti-Janet trolls hilariously do from time to time ), I personally think that Janet could give two shits about it, just like she could give two shits about the re-certification of her biggest sellers. However, with new, unbiased judges on the committee (QuestLove being one of them), I highly think that the days of Janet being criminally ignored by the committee will soon be over . QuestLove himself has said that he feels she should’ve long ago received a nomination, and that he would throw her name out there just as he did with Hall & Oates this year (and look at where it got them). I thought I’d mentioned this before, but perhaps your memory is just as off as your math, your reasoning and your general discernment for talented icons.

Schubert said:

midnightmover said:

Wow, that's amazing. Thanks, dude. Yeah, the name rings a bell.

It's funny. You're the second passionate MJ fan who thought I was the devil who later reached out to say that I was right after all. It's good to know that some folks can have those breakthroughs.

And no, I don't argue with MJ fans much anymore. I don't actually post in this forum too much nowadays. Just once in a while when the mood takes me. Good to hear from you though.

To me, MJ was God. My posts as MOL are still available I suppose. One can read them and realize how much I adored, venerated the very ground he walked on. To me, he could do no wrong. Well, he could actually: he was too giving, too compassionate. You know, the single greatest human being on Earth since Jesus Christ walked the streets of Jerusalem.

You were the Anti-Christ to us, The Floons. You spewed the truths we wanted nothing to do with, pointed out the facts we vehemently dismissed and spited the words we hated to read. I, along with my loyal army of MJ fans for L.O.V.E. and justice-for-this-world-and-the-other, argued with you constantly.

Fast forward 4 or 5 years, and here I am, a diferente person. I am no longer a MJ fan. Better: I have nothing but disdain and dislike for the man. Worse, I don’t even like his music. He could be a weirdo and a pedophile that, if his music was good, I wouldn’t give a flying crap about his personal life. It would compensate. But it doesn’t. His music is cheesy, teenagey-driven, bubblegum crap. It’s as if the truth had hit me, as If I had seen the light: you were absolutely correct. In every point, in every area and in every argument. You were not a hater, just a common sense user and I, as your typical floon, was completely crazy, deprived of anything remotely associated with those two words. Then, 3 or 4 years ago, I started losing my interest in MJ, something which coincided with me living a happier, healthier personal life and welcoming common sense into it. The coincidence, right? (NOT!). Funny how, just some weeks ago, revewing my crazy self as a floon, I thought about you! You! The man who was right in every word but still had a gazillion people against him. Like a former drug addict revewing his addiction, I thought about how crazy and how blind I could be.

Stand your ground midnightlover. As crazy as some fans might be, everything is easier when the truth is on your side. I also rarely post on prince.org anymore and, most of the time, it is to pose as Latoya’s fangirl for the sake of cheap, quick entertainment. Now that I think about it, I remembre one day you said and I quote: “Only people who are emotionally down, depressed, are MJ fans.”. Looking back, that fitted me to a T.

A big kiss to you! And don’t cal me dude: I’m a chick!

2freaky4church1 said:

She was Mikey's Sister, was very attractive, had big tits and made all the boys boner goners. She had lots of help by expert song writers, infused with Prince's fire. She was taught by handlers how to dance, how to flirt, but not appear to slutty. She was Apolonia with better pr and a bit more talent. She was sold like cereal and the kids ate her up. The songs do matter, but she did not make the songs, the songs made her. Later she had to show a tit just to seem relevant with Madonna porn culture.

She is now pretty much boring, even when the Michael shadow is Forest Lawn strong. Tito is still not amused.

BE GONE!! ((You're getting the boot))

Schubert said:

SEANMAN said: