MickyDolenz said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Going off what Mickey said as well... i wonder if the disco thing hurt Travolta for awhile. He had Midnight Cowboy & Staying Alive... but weren't most his movies duds in the 80s?

I think Staying Alive flopped. After Urban Cowboy, I don't think John had another hit until Look Who's Talking, which was 1989. That was considered his comeback at the time. Urban Cowboy influenced the mechanical bull craze and line dancing. Country music started to crossover more in the late 1970's & early 1980's. Kenny Rogers Gambler movies were a big thing and rural/country based TV shows like Dukes Of Hazzard, BJ & The Bear, Barbara Mandrell & The Mandrell Sisters, Hee Haw, Carter Country, and Sherriff Lobo were hits. The Dukes became so popular that the studio made millions of dollars on merchandising and had a cartoon spin off. This probably began in the mid-1970s with Burt Reynolds movies like White Lightning, Gator, and Smokey & The Bandit which helped to popularize CB radios. Even Good Times had an episode about a CB.

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Like it's been pointed out, soft rock acts like Christopher Cross & Air Supply were a big thing in the early 1980s. It was harder for R&B music to get Top 40 pop airplay after "disco" died. Some people today wonder why did Michael Jackson release The Girl Is Mine as a 1st single. It fit what was popular on pop radio in 1982. Paul McCartney was still big then too, so that helped, and Paul was considered light rock/adult contemporary.

Exactly, it was the first step towards crossing over, and continuing the tradition of Ebony and Ivory

I have a dvd called, "Secret Disco Revolution", and I recall it mentioning how disco had gotten so huge that rock radio stations started playing disco, more so than rock. Rock DJs even were fired and/or quit because of disco's popularity. Even further, because of its fame, those who weren't really disco artists were told by their record companies that they had to do disco oriented songs. Eventually, the disco sucks mantra was widespread with fire burnings of disco records, tapes, etc., as I'm sure you know:)

leecappella said:

Even further, because of its fame, those who weren't really disco artists were told by their record companies that they had to do disco oriented songs.

That wasn't really a new thing in the record business. Whenever something became popular on radio, the labels started signing a bunch of acts that did the same thing, like the early 1960's girl groups. Some of the remakes The Beatles did were girl group songs (Boys, Please Mr. Postman).

vainandy said:

TonyVanDam said:

THAT^!

And also, the disco haters should in retrospect feel pretty stupid because disco didn't exactly "died". Disco was still alive in Europe as a genre called italo disco. As for North America, disco was still alive in Chicago as a genre called house (as in the kind of music that was played in a club called the Warehouse, thanks to the late DJ Frankie Knuckies).

It actually lived on black radio as funk because the funk that existed after the disco era is a very different sounding funk than before the disco era. It never left the gay scene either because even before house music, it lived on in the white gay clubs as what was called Hi NRG which is immediately after disco's "death".

I've known some straight black folks (counting myself and some of my cousins) that listened to Hi-NRG in the 1980's.

TonyVanDam said:

vainandy said:

It actually lived on black radio as funk because the funk that existed after the disco era is a very different sounding funk than before the disco era. It never left the gay scene either because even before house music, it lived on in the white gay clubs as what was called Hi NRG which is immediately after disco's "death".

I've known some straight black folks (counting myself and some of my cousins) that listened to Hi-NRG in the 1980's.

This 1981 record was definitely disco influenced and evidence that gay people were NOT going to let disco completely die. Over at 7:32 they even start talking and start getting down and dirty.

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vainandy said:

JoeTyler said:

everything Vainandy writes about the 75-85 era is 100% gold , and I mean it

listen to him when he speaks about the 75-85, since he's always right, and welcome back

Thank you honey. Now, where's my welcome back present? I want more than just those black underwear you showed me last time.

so, you missed the pic of my ass? too bad!

Andy shut it down, preaching the truth as usual...nothing to add except that I was in my late teens during the disco era and having the time of my life!

Gunsnhalen said:

Going off what Mickey said as well... i wonder if the disco thing hurt Travolta for awhile. He had Midnight Cowboy & Staying Alive... but weren't most his movies duds in the 80s?

Then bands like Kiss chased the disco train and had a HUGE hit with it. Then they didn't sell well till they took the makeup off

Blondie was probably the luckiest of this group They started out more punk and hard rock. Then had what many see as ''the essential disco song'' or at least in the top 5 of them. Then the next year they went New Wave and rock, then they went Hip-Hop & Reggae. They got on and off trends quick

and that seemed like a natural move; Gene Simmons bass was always loud and clear, even funkish at times, and Kiss had a downright funky vibe when jamming, especially live

not surprisingly, after the "death" of disco, Kiss jumped on the bandwagon of the other genre that seemed natural for their base sound: '80s metal

just a question,everybody: what do you think about early '80s HITS like Billie Jean, I'm Coming Out, 1999, Let's Dance, Rio, Lucky Star, etc, or the (awfully titled) urban genre as a whole (Mary Jane Girls, Lionel Richie solo, Rick James, etc)

undoubtedly, all those songs and artists had one foot (or more) on the legacy of '70s disco...why did they become HUGE only 2-3 years after the backlash????

maybe because the average disco hater hated the STYLE and everything it represented (the mixing of races, the gay club culture, the celebrities, the escapist lyrics, the media overkill, etc?) but not necessarily the music??

SoulAlive said:

the funny thing is,disco never really went away.Records that were previously labeled as "disco songs" were simply re-named "dance music" in the early 80s.And now,in today's pop music,you see many artists trying to go for a retro-disco sound.

So true. Disco never 'died', it evolved and took other forms.

uPtoWnNY said:

SoulAlive said:

the funny thing is,disco never really went away.Records that were previously labeled as "disco songs" were simply re-named "dance music" in the early 80s.And now,in today's pop music,you see many artists trying to go for a retro-disco sound.

So true. Disco never 'died', it evolved and took other forms.

exactly.80s freestyle music is an example of how disco evolved.So is house music.

vainady is absolutely right about the racist and homophobic backlash against disco.

Havng said that, disco was at its apex in 1979, with some of the biggest and greatest disco hits of the entire era being released that year (Le Freak, Shake Your Groove Thing, I Will Survive, Hot Stuff, Bad Girls, I Love The Nightlife, Ring My Bell, Good Times, Don't Stop Till You Get Enough). Unfortunately, once a musical trend blows up, a lot of artists and record companies try to jump on the bandwagon and put out some wack shit in the process. That same year saw the release of some big band covers put to a disco beat, and it also saw the release of Sesame Street Fever and the Ethel Merman Disco Album. Also, roller disco became really popular, and once you started seeing commercials for disco dance lessons in Toledo, Wichita, and Boise, I could understand why some would feel the need to lash out against disco. But like vainandy said, once disco spread to the boonies and flyover country and started getting accepted by middle American white people, other whites started freaking out.

I think the end of the disco craze came when Ronald Reagan got elected president in 1980. It was already on the wane somewhat, but his election just hastened its demise. In a sense, disco was one of the great creations of the civil rights, women's rights, and gay rights movements of the 1970's, and its very presence siginified the success of racial and gender harmony. Once Reagan got elected, however, he, the Republican party, and right wing conservatives got started on dismantling all of the gains of the 1970's civil rights movements, and disco was the first and easiest target. Sadly, this was also the beginning of the AIDS crisis in America, and many of those disco lovers passed away far too soon.

JoeTyler said:

just a question,everybody: what do you think about early '80s HITS like Billie Jean, I'm Coming Out, 1999, Let's Dance, Rio, Lucky Star, etc, or the (awfully titled) urban genre as a whole (Mary Jane Girls, Lionel Richie solo, Rick James, etc)

undoubtedly, all those songs and artists had one foot (or more) on the legacy of '70s disco...why did they become HUGE only 2-3 years after the backlash????

maybe because the average disco hater hated the STYLE and everything it represented (the mixing of races, the gay club culture, the celebrities, the escapist lyrics, the media overkill, etc?) but not necessarily the music??

Early 80s songs like "Holiday" by Madonna,"Let The Music Play Play" by Shannon,"Shake It Up Tonight" by Cheryl Lynn,"Upside Down" by Diana Ross,"Take Your Time" by SOS Band and countless others,are really 'disco songs' in disguise They were conveniently labeled as "dance songs" or R&B,but nobody was fooled by that.As I said,disco never really went away,it just took on a different identity.

SoulAlive said:

JoeTyler said:

just a question,everybody: what do you think about early '80s HITS like Billie Jean, I'm Coming Out, 1999, Let's Dance, Rio, Lucky Star, etc, or the (awfully titled) urban genre as a whole (Mary Jane Girls, Lionel Richie solo, Rick James, etc)

undoubtedly, all those songs and artists had one foot (or more) on the legacy of '70s disco...why did they become HUGE only 2-3 years after the backlash????

maybe because the average disco hater hated the STYLE and everything it represented (the mixing of races, the gay club culture, the celebrities, the escapist lyrics, the media overkill, etc?) but not necessarily the music??

Early 80s songs like "Holiday" by Madonna,"Let The Music Play Play" by Shannon,"Shake It Up Tonight" by Cheryl Lynn,"Upside Down" by Diana Ross,"Take Your Time" by SOS Band and countless others,are really 'disco songs' in disguise They were conveniently labeled as "dance songs" or R&B,but nobody was fooled by that.As I said,disco never really went away,it just took on a different identity.

ok, but my question was why were those songs POPULAR/BIG if disco was supossed to be dead, hated and gone by the early '80s...

Disco.... yes!.......

.... makes me happy...

"Disco sucks" was a campaign from the rock folks, they got jealous of the popularity the disco had,

I think Gloria Gaynor said something like:

Disco never died though, disco still lives today.......

728huey said:

vainady is absolutely right about the racist and homophobic backlash against disco.

Havng said that, disco was at its apex in 1979, with some of the biggest and greatest disco hits of the entire era being released that year (Le Freak, Shake Your Groove Thing, I Will Survive, Hot Stuff, Bad Girls, I Love The Nightlife, Ring My Bell, Good Times, Don't Stop Till You Get Enough). Unfortunately, once a musical trend blows up, a lot of artists and record companies try to jump on the bandwagon and put out some wack shit in the process. That same year saw the release of some big band covers put to a disco beat, and it also saw the release of Sesame Street Fever and the Ethel Merman Disco Album. Also, roller disco became really popular, and once you started seeing commercials for disco dance lessons in Toledo, Wichita, and Boise, I could understand why some would feel the need to lash out against disco. But like vainandy said, once disco spread to the boonies and flyover country and started getting accepted by middle American white people, other whites started freaking out.

I think the end of the disco craze came when Ronald Reagan got elected president in 1980. It was already on the wane somewhat, but his election just hastened its demise. In a sense, disco was one of the great creations of the civil rights, women's rights, and gay rights movements of the 1970's, and its very presence siginified the success of racial and gender harmony. Once Reagan got elected, however, he, the Republican party, and right wing conservatives got started on dismantling all of the gains of the 1970's civil rights movements, and disco was the first and easiest target. Sadly, this was also the beginning of the AIDS crisis in America, and many of those disco lovers passed away far too soon.

Wasn't Rod Stewart's biggest hit 'Do Ya Think I'm Sexy'?

JoeTyler said:

SoulAlive said:

Early 80s songs like "Holiday" by Madonna,"Let The Music Play Play" by Shannon,"Shake It Up Tonight" by Cheryl Lynn,"Upside Down" by Diana Ross,"Take Your Time" by SOS Band and countless others,are really 'disco songs' in disguise They were conveniently labeled as "dance songs" or R&B,but nobody was fooled by that.As I said,disco never really went away,it just took on a different identity.

ok, but my question was why were those songs POPULAR/BIG if disco was supossed to be dead, hated and gone by the early '80s...

well,that's the thing: disco wasn't dead.It never died.They just stopped referring to it as "disco".The only thing that changed is how they labeled it.

It's been long said by a bunch of music industry observers that the whole 'Disco Sucks' thing (which turned 35 a few days ago) at the ballpark in 1979 had a racial/bigoted undertone to it. Do you agree? Also, in this day and age do you thing such a statement could happen and be so embraced that it would effectively wipe out (or lessen the commercial success of) a style of music?

my two cents...

I've always thought Steve Dahl, Disco Demolition night was given way too much credited for killing off disco, Mr. Dahl happened to "blow-up" at the time disco was waning.

I always thought the word Disco defined, a place for people to gather who loved music and dancing... the word was used to define a club scene not a paritcuar genre of music. The disco club scene primarily was created by Black LGBT & Latino community. Most of those Gay Black clubs were either off (had no official liquor license) books, after hour (place opening up at 4:00am,) or private invitation only joints. What started in NY and Philly would take on whole different flavor as Disco crossed the US. There was dance music before "Saturday Night Fever" and then there was Disco after "Saturday NIght Fever".

As usual when the "Satuday Night Fever" soundtrack took off, record labels defined the genre as Disco and then went about ruining and running what was once known as dance / R&B / Soul music into the ground... I think they call it cross-over music. So, Andy is spot on.

Disco had been on the scene for a decade. Yes, 8 years before "Saturday Night Fever" movie and soundtrack came out; the "Philly Sound" was a precursor to what would be known as Disco. Wait, when did the Philly Sound emerge? Late 1960's.... so please. About time Dahl got around to blowing records at Comisky Park, Disco had already been reduced to picking cover songs and remixing them. Disco radio stations didn't appear around the country until 1978 and most dissappeared by 1980. s. Also, the rusting of the US industrial cities were in full swing, it hard to party when your ass it broke and jobless. Plus, the demographics of the black community had change, an emerging middles class was able to leave and live beyond segregated neighborhoods, which left those who didn't have the means struggling to survive even more... hence the emergence of RAP. The club scene -- black folks-- who also thought Disco had turned into meandering bullshit., were walking away.

Of course the LGBT commonity came right back and took their shit back. As Tony pointed out, they came back with Chicago House music.

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[Edited 7/17/14 19:11pm]

I pretty much agree with nearly everything here that has been said, particularly Vainandy's essay. That was deep and really got into the root causes of the issue.

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I think to it was the fact that the 1970s was still a very racially divided time, it was only the first full decade of so called equality and a lot of whites still had the idea that all blacks had big sideburns and afros and said "Can you dig it baby". In New Zealand it was the afro joe stereotype.

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Plus a lot of these people were exposed to a black culture that had gone from positive message soul of the early 1970s and black pride to a world dominated by sexy music (Disco and R and B) all the Barry White and keep on truckin stuff. Plus all the Blaxploitation movies that showed stereotypes of pimps and players and ganagbangers and this shit went on right up to 1979 with the Disco Godfather and Monkey Hustle and whereas the early movies like Shaft were okay, they got worse and worse with their ghetto sink mentality. Jiving stereotypes like JJ on TV, would have made many a redneck uncomfortable with their new "Cuzzins". They would have thought the black life shown in popular culture involved non stop sex and wah wah bass beats all the time.

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Next it was the gays too, of course, gay dance music, but 1970s gays had a a habit of ramming all the sexual ins and outs of gayness up on the big screen. In 1977 the gay stereotype was a effeminate queen who wore pink flares and had quiffed hair, constantly took uppers and other drugs and had non stop anal sex and shreiked along to I will survive and "I'm gonna wash that man out of my hair". A positive media campaign showing Blacks and gays as people who were not all like these popular stereotypes. It would take the next decade with its challenges to prove the more social acceptable face of gays and the 1990s queer movement was more or less popular with the mainstream, so that by the 2000s most gays had been mainstreamed. Whereas now its only born again hate churches and wackjobs who really hate gays.

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The black image gained a bit more respectability in the later 80s with the arrival of Michael Jackson and Bill Cosby to the white mainstream, but since the 1990s the shit hop bling bling, ice and alize, bitches and hoes movement has moved public perceptions of black popular culture down to the levels of the 70s. And agreeably so, Shit hop espouses more coonery and degradation of the black urban experience than any form of popular mass culture before it. It glamourises drugs, a criminal thug lifestyle and treating women like dirt and referring to them as bitches. Its anti education and anti establishment and makes going to prison for capping a nigga a pinnacle of achievement. Disco music was never guilty of any these crimes. It was about shaking your ass and having a good time. Of course there were drugs particularly cocaine.

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I think many peole got sick of the low quality of a lot of later songs, some are excellent, but there were many others like Disco Duck (I know its early), Ethel Merman, Do ya think I'm sexy and the like, which were crap and got ligged (Payoled) up the charts when good music was kept off. But also anything mildy dancy got labelled disco like I wanna be your lover, I don't really think that's disco, its not repetitious and larded with sound effects. Its a melodic soul song.

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Maybe too it was the fashion, Disco was all about platform shoes, afros and permed hair, medallions, flares and slacks along with brightly coloured tie dyed and shimmered shirts. This shit had been in fashion since like 1967 and the hippie movement. I have heard a lot of people telling me they were hartfully sick of being able to only buy flares in the late 70s and into the 80s. These fashions were still going strong in 1979. Many rock and punk groups had tossed out the flares and shimmer clothes in the mid 70s. Seriously by 1980 people were discarding flares by the dozen. I think people were sick of hippy clothes by 1979.

Nearly every artist I see in photos from 1978/79 has flares on, but by 1980/81, the pants are unflared to the point of being drainpiped. Even the Jacksons who wore shimmer flares in 1979, had tapered the same flares down to drainpipes by the 1981 Destiny tour. Same with earth wind and fire and the village people who both went new wave in the early 1980s. Kool and the gang are a late survivor with one guy wearing a red flared suit in the 1982 song "Get down on it" Flares were seen as naff by 1980. And of course Leo Sayer has kept his 70s perm into the 2010s, although even he had mulletized it for his cover on a 1983 single.

I think it is too, that many people saw flares, perms and brightly coloured anything with large lapels as effeminate looking at this stage too. In 1990 at high school, my school pants were flared for some unknown reason and I got so much shit for them. I had to have them taken in, of course by 1993 with a neo hippy movement they would have been groovy again.

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As with music I think the Americans had only been exposed to poofy flamboyant sounding music for the first time with disco, but Britain had already had a taste with some of the camper late 60s acts like Long John Bladry and the Move. The hippy style involved the Edwardian and Georgian frock coats,. and then there was the Glam Rock Music of the early 70s (Not that big in the USA) that featured long hair and make up for everyone, shimmer clothes, glitter, spangles and of course wider than wide flares. The music that suited glam rock was mostly simply contrived instant rubbish like "My Coo a choo", "Squeeze me, pleaze me", "Wig Wam Bam", and "Get it on". Songs with catchy hooks and melodies but little lastability. Groups like T-Rex, The Sweet, Slade, Gary Glitter, Chicory Tip, Suzi Quatro, Mudd etc. David Bowie and Elton John also borrowed from it and they were pretty much Glam too, but of a much higher caliber than say the Sweet.

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Most of these groups had songs written for them and were acting androgynous when in fact most were straight and married (Like all the members of the Sweet). All of the tackiest excesses of 70s pop culture was poured into glam music and it got a huge backlash from rock and r and b fans in the UK and the British world as this glam music was aimed strictly at children and adolescents. Yet some of it was quite good and groups like T Rex wrote their own songs and had long careers off it (T Rex was annihilating the British charts between 1971 and 1973). You could also dance to most glam music and it had a lot in common with early disco and in a lot of ways, the pouring drums, throbbing bass and pounding beats of glam was pro to disco in its sound. Nothing racial here though, all of the purveyors and artists in glam where 100% white, if anything Blacks were messing around with early disco by 1976 in the UK, (Hot Chocolate) Maxine Nightingale, 5000 Volts (Led by white girl Tina Charles - one of the best British disco singers).

The most exotic performer in Glam rock was the Jewish lead singer of T Rex Marc Bolan and he didn't even look very exotic or act it.

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So that is some of my ideas.

MickyDolenz said:

leecappella said:

Even further, because of its fame, those who weren't really disco artists were told by their record companies that they had to do disco oriented songs.

That wasn't really a new thing in the record business. Whenever something became popular on radio, the labels started signing a bunch of acts that did the same thing, like the early 1960's girl groups. Some of the remakes The Beatles did were girl group songs (Boys, Please Mr. Postman).

Never said it was a new thing, but, yes, you're right!

Hateful and racist though, I agree Disco sux was. It was hypocritical though too, where did they get the disco records from, obvioulsy buying them, which contributed directly to their popularity and got the attention - (Even bad press is still press).

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Bad publicity can revive a dead career, like Australian swimmer Ian Thorpe (He won all the medals at the olympics before Michael Phelps came along), came out as gay and no one had really heard of him for like 6 or 7 years, now he is out he is in the public eye again and will be for the next week until they move on to something else.

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I don't think music could influence young children though. My Mum listened to heaps of disco music when I was very young (I was born in 1976) and I grew up loving 80s new romantics and new wave, particularly Boy George and Culture club. I did not love them becausee he was gay or a drag queen. I had no idea what either were until I was at least 12 or 13. Most kids don't care, they just like something because it is funky or cool. We all liked Thriller in 1983/84 because it was just so cool!!! And besides when I came out (At age 21, although I knew I was gay at 15), musical preferences had nothing to do with it. It was only later on I put two and two together that I was the only boy who liked singers like Madonna, Kylie Minogue, Prince and Roxette rather than Gun and Roses like the other boys.

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And I realised my family may have got suspicious when they saw me dancing to Whitney Houston when I was 11 and singing a long with her, I did not know thatw as a gay stereotype and thought Whitney Houston was cool, and that anyone who did not like her, had no idea about liking cool music. Thats how 10 and 11 year olds think.

kitbradley said:

vainandy said:

the rap of today which is considered "shit hop" because there's no rhythm in it whatsoever. It's just a slow ass stripped down Fisher Price beat with some "talking" over it. And it's so slow, that it's at a Lawrence Welk tempo so I actually consider it "whitened" down because it don't get no "whiter" than Lawrence Welk.

iaminparties said:

More homphobic than racist.

Disco music has underrated depth.Some great musicians.

The entire disco era and all that great music was more exciting than anything that's going on in today's music world.Even the bad disco songs from that era ("Let's All Chant","Miss Broadway","Macho Man",etc) sound better than the crap that's on the radio now,imo.

SoulAlive said:

The entire disco era and all that great music was more exciting than anything that's going on in today's music world.Even the bad disco songs from that era ("Let's All Chant","Miss Broadway","Macho Man",etc) sound better than the crap that's on the radio now,imo.

You ain't neva lied....

vainandy said:

That backlash was extremely racist and homophobic. Disco was a predominately black genre of music that was not only on black radio, but it was also all over white pop radio as well, and it was listened to by droves of young white people. ......

.

People like to say that the backlash occurred because disco was everywhere, was being overplayed, and putting rock on the backburner so the rock crowd lashed out. That's only partially true. True, disco was a huge part of pop radio back then but there was still loads of rock back then also and there were also stations that played strictly rock and no disco. .....

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[Edited 7/16/14 8:38am]

i was in junior high school back then, but yes, what vainandy posted is exactly what i remember, and what really stood out to me is seeing the pictures from that record burning in that stadium...angry, bitter white youths who you were taught as a black person to avoid at all costs. if the hatred of disco was so widespread, why was that stadium so overwhelmingly white? i mean come on! you're angry at a popular form of music to the point you're going to basically riot over it? no, it was all about racism and homophobia full stop.

raffi said:

The segregation on radio is happening again. Thanks to the new Billboard rules, ITunes, and Clear Channel gobbling tons of independently owned black radio stations things are pretty bad for veterans and R&B acts. Pop radio isn't even touching Beyonce and Usher's stuff. Meanwhile, Katy Perry, Lorde, and Iggy are all over Urban radio

You know, the other day I heard Chris Brown referred to as an R&B singer by someone on TV. I was surprised because I think CB is more of a "pop-hop" artist. I don't think he's ever been an R&B singer. Ironically, I think his worst trait, if you want to call it that, is that he's terrible at singing ballads.

[Edited 7/24/14 16:41pm]

[Edited 7/24/14 16:44pm]

1sotrue said:

Tuls101 said:

It always seemed like more of a loosely homophobic sentiment to me.

THIS^^^^^ after all disco started in the gay clubs. I always believed it was anti black too. By the the late 70s there was a growing sentiment against Disco music it did become too saturated it was everywhere. Radio stations were changing their rock formats just capitalize on its popularity A lot of artists put out Disco music just to keep up with the trend. Examples Cher Diana Ross Rolling Stones Barbara Streisand the Four Seasons Rod Stewart Blondie to name a few That rally started by those 2 DJs turn chaotic and it backfired. I don't believe it can happen again there's a lot more dance clubs than before and dance music is still popular its never going away

Hey, "Miss You" is a bad ass song!