So Sam Smith comes out, which may or may not have been a surprise to anyone, and other than a few pieces in USA Today and a few other places, no one gives a rat's ass. The man has has a Top 10 hit, sings on a second Top 10 hit, says he's gay, and the world barely lifts an eyebrow. Mind you, this is the way it should be but as someone who has followed celebrities since I was 8, I find the phenomenon fascinating. When the dude from Neon Trees came out earlier this year I thought it was remarkable that the band remained as popular as ever and wasn't torpedoed by homophobic idiots. But could someone explain what happened in our culture that it has become relatively easy for pop stars to come out and not be cast aside by the masses. God, you think of people like poor Luther Vandross who had to (allegedly) hide their preferences their whole life. And now, such a culture shift and a welcome one. Not saying we have become a Utopia or anything (judging by comments on YouTube on one of Sam's videos there are still plenty of homophobic bozos out there) but it is neat to see that times have changed a little. Thoughts?

You're right. I remember Glambert's coming out was much bigger (but that could have been because of his risque image)

.

Unfortunately there's still dumbasses who get "offended" when a singer is gay. I was talking to an acquaintance about George Michael and how Careless Whisper was a masterpiece, and he agreed and went on to say "I wish he wasn't gay..."

.

If it was a female saying this, I'd understand it was probably a lust-related issue, but I knew it wasn't because he's straight and would probably never have a man crush (or admit to it ) I asked him why, as his sexuality has nothing to do with his terrific voice and albums, and he was like "It's not the same. I can't take him seriously."

.

At that point I flatly told him how that was stupid, especially considering GM doesn't even sing about guys so if you wanted to get offended, he hasn't given you the chance to yet. What does his sexuality and private life matter?!

.

Typical "Haha dude idk... are YOU gay or something " rebuff.

.

Idiots A lot of them exist out there, and even if media doesn't report on singers coming out (or doesn't make a big deal about it), a large majority of people especially teenagers still have shit to say about it and not all of them are positive. Some hate the artist because he came out.

Its the sign of the times, the younger generation has no problem with it and they are the ones buying music.

Was it ever a big deal when Culture Club & Dead Or Alive made their debuts in America in the earty 1980's? I don't think so. I think some critics thought Boy George & Pete Burns were only drag queens.

who is Glambert?

I have always loved Elton John -- a lot..!

And Freddie Mercury too....

And I am not even gay hahaha.......


Sexuality doesn't mean a thing, never has meant anything, imho........

TonyVanDam said:

Was it ever a big deal when Culture Club & Dead Or Alive made their debuts in America in the earty 1980's? I don't think so. I think some critics thought Boy George & Pete Burns were only drag queens.

In a word, yes, at least in America. Boy George was very ambiguous about his sexuality when he first became big (one of his quotes I remember was "I'm confused"). The novelty was played up more than his sexual preference. Same for Pete Burns. The only openly gay acts who hit it big were:

Frankie Goes to Hollywood--Though after Relax and that phenomenon they disappeared from mainstream pop.

Pet Shop Boys---Never in the closet but only came out in press after their initial hits.

Elton John--But he was married to a woman for a few of the early 80s years,

Bronski Beat---One hit but neither they nor the Communards broke big in America.

Who else was openly gay. Limahl wasn't. Baltimora wasn't until later.

Then you have this great expanse of time between the mid-80s and the late 90s where if there were any openly gay pop stars, I am not recalling. Right Said Fred came out later. George Michael was deeply in the closet. Ricky Martin was deeply in the closet.

It's not just music. I think it's great that Zach Quinto and Jim Parsons and Ellen Page and Matt Bomer have come out and there has been no Ellen like uproar. America does seem to be getting more openminded and the younger generation is driving it.

It is just such a horrible shame that 20 years ago, 30 years ago so many people had to hide it and just kind of cool that times have changed a little bit.

thedance said:

I have always loved Elton John -- a lot..!

And Freddie Mercury too....

And I am not even gay hahaha.......


Sexuality doesn't mean a thing, never has meant anything, imho........

Agree 100%...but society has not always agreed. Tide seems to be changing.

Still there is no true gay and out popstar, Sam Smith is more of a Groban/Buble type isn't he? (Don't list people that have no hits like Lambert)

You know what, I'm gonna say it: It was Ellen.

She took the bullet. And, paid a severe price initially for it.
Sure, Elton John did too, but he was never seen as a pioneer

for the LBGT community's push to 'coming out.'.

After Ellen, there was a domino effect both in media and

in society as a whole. Everyone in an urban environment

now problably knows SOMEBODY who has come out.
When a human face is put to it, you become more tolerant.

You should read Malcom Caldwell's "Tipping Point."
He explains the theory pretty well.

But, yeah. I think it was Ellen.

I hate to say it cause I thought it was a rather crappy tv show, but Will & Grace also did a lot to change the homophobia in this culture.

[Edited 8/1/14 10:09am]

I htink what ultimately turned the tide toward acceptance was the massive wave of people coming out in the 90s and early 00s. It was harder for average people to persist in homophobia when it was clear now, hey I'm talking about my sister, my cousin, my good friend.

The hypocrisy of it all is what continues to get to me. The some of the same people who condemned homosexuality are some of the same people who you later find out were "closeted". smh

I think there is still a very long way to go for full acceptance of an out gay pop star.

We've yet to see someone out with the career of an Usher, Bruno Mars, Alicia Keys, Beyonce etc.

[Edited 8/1/14 14:48pm]

Blixical said:

You know what, I'm gonna say it: It was Ellen.

She took the bullet. And, paid a severe price initially for it.
Sure, Elton John did too, but he was never seen as a pioneer

for the LBGT community's push to 'coming out.'.

After Ellen, there was a domino effect both in media and

in society as a whole. Everyone in an urban environment

now problably knows SOMEBODY who has come out.
When a human face is put to it, you become more tolerant.

You should read Malcom Caldwell's "Tipping Point."
He explains the theory pretty well.

But, yeah. I think it was Ellen.

Agree Ellen was a big deal. Ellen begat Will and Grace and In and Out and other pop images that brought homosexuality to mainstream audiences. Now it is odder to see a show that doesn't have a gay character than one that does. With pop music though, Sam coming out with two Top 10 Hits is pretty significant...it's happened in television but not in music as much where a star who has just got a following and is on the rising side of stardom comes out.

119 said:

I think there is still a very long way to go for full acceptance of an out gay pop star.

We've yet to see someone out with the career of an Usher, Bruno Mars, Alicia Keys, Beyonce etc.

[Edited 8/1/14 14:48pm]

I think Sam could be a case study in this...or he could be the pop equivalent to a Rupert Everett who for 5 minutes was the hottest thing on the planet but ultimately he was not really a mainstream movie star nor did it seem like he desired to be. From a marketing standpoint it will be interesting to see where this goes. Lambert seemed more like an experiement, like all Idol stars do. Sam is someone who has a great voice, attractive, young...if his next single is just as big than the market will definitely show it has changed.

Hudson said:

Still there is no true gay and out popstar, Sam Smith is more of a Groban/Buble type isn't he? (Don't list people that have no hits like Lambert)

Will be interesting to see if his career goes in this direction but his single releases so far, including the appearance on the La La La song have all been pop oriented.

Sam was out, publicly, years before he hit it big (check his Twitter feed for confirmation). He has never hid anything. So, the "coming out" was not exactly high profile - a lot of people probably don't know.

Homophobic people will be shocked that most of the popstars or film iconcs they ve admired their whole life had at least 5 gay intercourses. Even a former US president had that.

CynicKill said:

Good point about Frank Ocean. Opened some doors in the more homophobic hip hop genre. But he is not a pop star nor did he garner Top 10 singles. A critics fave no doubt but speaking of Frank, where is he now? Curious to see his next move, musicwise.

^From what Ive read Frank says hes bisexual and only had a gay relationship with one person. Though I'll be the first to admit I have very limited knowledge of Mr. Ocean.

I don't think Ricky Martin's career was helped by coming out. I'm not saying he shouldn't have come out, but somehow it affected his career in a not so good way.

kewlschool said:

I don't think Ricky Martin's career was helped by coming out. I'm not saying he shouldn't have come out, but somehow it affected his career in a not so good way.

Ricky Martin was a little bit different. His pop hits days were over when he came out, much like Lance Bass, Clay Aiken etc. and seemingly used the coming out as a promotional impetus for his biography coming out. There was very little danger from a pop marketspace standpoint of coming out for Ricky, if anything it got people talking about him again. But in 1999, Ricky was marketed, both by his record company and by himself as a hetero Latin Lover. This is the George Michael model, the one that George Michael rebelled against later even before officially coming out. Feel free to disagree but Ricky's audience, 70% female or more, may not have been screaming their lungs our for him outside the studion of TRL if they knew he was not attainable. And up until the last few years, this was the celebrity model. Another person who helped smash this model that no one has mentioned yet is Neil Patrick Harris. To play such an ovetrtly hetero character on HIMYM and to come out so casually and to have it make almost no difference in mass perception made a difference

[Edited 8/3/14 8:35am]

GottaLetitgo said:

kewlschool said:

I don't think Ricky Martin's career was helped by coming out. I'm not saying he shouldn't have come out, but somehow it affected his career in a not so good way.

Ricky Martin was a little bit different. His pop hits days were over when he came out, much like Lance Bass, Clay Aiken etc. and seemingly used the coming out as a promotional impetus for his biography coming out. There was very little danger from a pop marketspace standpoint of coming out for Ricky, if anything it got people talking about him again. But in 1999, Ricky was marketed, both by his record company and by himself as a hetero Latin Lover. This is the George Michael model, the one that George Michael rebelled against later even before officially coming out. Feel free to disagree but Ricky's audience, 70% female or more, may not have been screaming their lungs our for him outside the studion of TRL if they knew he was not attainable. And up until the last few years, this was the celebrity model. Another person who helped smash this model that no one has mentioned yet is Neil Patrick Harris. To play such an ovetrtly hetero character on HIMYM and to come out so casually and to have it make almost no difference in mass perception made a difference

[Edited 8/3/14 8:35am]

That is true but still he didn't come out until a few years after he already had the part. The precident will be set when an open gay artist comes out, then gets hired. I must say we are getting there. This Sam Smith fellow is the closest I can think of of gay first work second because nobody knew who he was he was so new. I'm not sure how many records he's had out prior or if this is his first, but him coming out so early says something.

CharismaDove said:

You're right. I remember Glambert's coming out was much bigger (but that could have been because of his risque image)

.

Unfortunately there's still dumbasses who get "offended" when a singer is gay. I was talking to an acquaintance about George Michael and how Careless Whisper was a masterpiece, and he agreed and went on to say "I wish he wasn't gay..."

.

If it was a female saying this, I'd understand it was probably a lust-related issue, but I knew it wasn't because he's straight and would probably never have a man crush (or admit to it ) I asked him why, as his sexuality has nothing to do with his terrific voice and albums, and he was like "It's not the same. I can't take him seriously."

.

At that point I flatly told him how that was stupid, especially considering GM doesn't even sing about guys so if you wanted to get offended, he hasn't given you the chance to yet. What does his sexuality and private life matter?!

.

Typical "Haha dude idk... are YOU gay or something " rebuff.

.

Idiots A lot of them exist out there, and even if media doesn't report on singers coming out (or doesn't make a big deal about it), a large majority of people especially teenagers still have shit to say about it and not all of them are positive. Some hate the artist because he came out.

I can understand why GM would lose fans after coming out. Or in his case, after he was outed. He basically misrepresented himself, which makes everything he did during his peak years seem fraudish. All those love songs to women, female models in his videos, etc., etc. It would be different if someone just casually liked the song, but if someone was a fan of his initial image then "I'm gay" is a mood killer and makes everything (music included) he did earlier seem counterfeit. I have a hard time appreciating the Wham/Faith-era George Michael too. No matter how good the music was, he was a phony. That's not charming or endearing. It leaves a negative taste in my mouth.

Qazz said:

CharismaDove said:

You're right. I remember Glambert's coming out was much bigger (but that could have been because of his risque image)

.

Unfortunately there's still dumbasses who get "offended" when a singer is gay. I was talking to an acquaintance about George Michael and how Careless Whisper was a masterpiece, and he agreed and went on to say "I wish he wasn't gay..."

.

If it was a female saying this, I'd understand it was probably a lust-related issue, but I knew it wasn't because he's straight and would probably never have a man crush (or admit to it ) I asked him why, as his sexuality has nothing to do with his terrific voice and albums, and he was like "It's not the same. I can't take him seriously."

.

At that point I flatly told him how that was stupid, especially considering GM doesn't even sing about guys so if you wanted to get offended, he hasn't given you the chance to yet. What does his sexuality and private life matter?!

.

Typical "Haha dude idk... are YOU gay or something " rebuff.

.

Idiots A lot of them exist out there, and even if media doesn't report on singers coming out (or doesn't make a big deal about it), a large majority of people especially teenagers still have shit to say about it and not all of them are positive. Some hate the artist because he came out.

I can understand why GM would lose fans after coming out. Or in his case, after he was outed. He basically misrepresented himself, which makes everything he did during his peak years seem fraudish. All those love songs to women, female models in his videos, etc., etc. It would be different if someone just casually liked the song, but if someone was a fan of his initial image then "I'm gay" is a mood killer and makes everything (music included) he did earlier seem counterfeit. I have a hard time appreciating the Wham/Faith-era George Michael too. No matter how good the music was, he was a phony. That's not charming or endearing. It leaves a negative taste in my mouth.

.

Hmm, interesting point. I didn't look at it that way till now.

.

But I thought George was bisexual in those years..? So his love songs to women and hanging around hot models could have been true. I forget the name of his boyfriend, but I *think* he was his first and that was all the way into the 90s

.

He was never "gay", iirc, until after Wham (he said sometime around this time he realized he may be gay, not bisexual).

CharismaDove said:

Qazz said:

I can understand why GM would lose fans after coming out. Or in his case, after he was outed. He basically misrepresented himself, which makes everything he did during his peak years seem fraudish. All those love songs to women, female models in his videos, etc., etc. It would be different if someone just casually liked the song, but if someone was a fan of his initial image then "I'm gay" is a mood killer and makes everything (music included) he did earlier seem counterfeit. I have a hard time appreciating the Wham/Faith-era George Michael too. No matter how good the music was, he was a phony. That's not charming or endearing. It leaves a negative taste in my mouth.

.

Hmm, interesting point. I didn't look at it that way till now.

.

But I thought George was bisexual in those years..? So his love songs to women and hanging around hot models could have been true. I forget the name of his boyfriend, but I *think* he was his first and that was all the way into the 90s

.

He was never "gay", iirc, until after Wham (he said sometime around this time he realized he may be gay, not bisexual).

I thought Freedom 90 was his mea culpa for any false images he created during the Faith era. "I knew what side my bread was buttered, I took the knife as well." And Lord knows, GM just continued a tradition that went all the way back to Rock Hudson and before. GM had a great voice, undeniable, but he would sell a lot more records as a dreamy ladies man. He was completely redone and it worked tremendously. And this is what most gay pop stars had to do, or heck pop stars regardless of sexual preference. Image sells. It's only now that you see a pop star like Sam Smith who may have been out but didn't have to make it public. He didn't have to mention it in the press. But he did and matter of factly and that is what seems to be the difference. But it's a lot like Michael Sam in the NFL, it's the next step that is going to be interesting. If Sam continues to have hits and Michael Sam is one day know as a football player and not the gay football player than society will have shown progress.