I love me some Tank, but he uses auto-tune quite a bit. It wish HE would get back to a more traditional R&B.

Last week, Ruben Studdard released, IMO, his greatest album to date. It's very much in a traditional vein. It debuted at #11 on the R&B album chart and something like #46 on the Pop side, which is, at best, a moderate showing on both charts. So, I guess the real question is why is it that labels have decided to stop promoting more traditional sounding R&B records by African-American artists but they are willing to promote the exact same genre if a young, caucasian artist is behind it???

Who is this "we" he's referring to? I guess he means TGT.

He needs to pick up that Janelle Monae.

Timberlake and Thicke aren't selling R&B, they are selling R&B flavored pop. Justin is a mediocre singer at best. I guess ol' Tank let those record execs get in his head. Neither Thicke nor Timberlake has ever released a record in the likes of Luther Vandross or Stevie. Neither of them have even released something as R&B as Ginuwine's "Pony" and Timberlake is produced by Timbaland, who produced Pony. All they did was dredge up Static Major's old style and have Justin sing it and then slick up the production. Their material is not bad but it is not the cornerstone of R&B. I post new tracks around here often. There's always some good R&B floating around if you are looking for it.

[Edited 2/14/14 12:38pm]

Awww, poor Lil Tank wants some attention.

-

I agree with the radio not being too ballad friendly but that about it.

-

"That’s an old school, throwback R&B record. That’s what R&B used to sound like.

“We have to get back to that. Making that kind of music."

-

-

Why does "good R&B music" has to sound old or like a throwback for it to be good? That's just boring and lazy to me. It's fine in doses but I'd rather hear artists try new things while building on the past versus trying to duplicate it.

If, as the article states, Ledisi, Miguel, Janelle Monae and Frank Ocean are the exception to the rule, then he in fact does NOT have a point.

JT's music isn't R&B, and that because he sounds like he's faking it, I know he may not, he loves that genre and he tries as hard as possible to get that R&B sound vocally but he can't because he has limited vocal range hence his voice will never fit R&B that easily.

The best R&B artists of our generation are Frank Ocean and Miguel for males, dunno about females, Janelle's music is regarded as R&B but I think she's more into soul, funk and jazz music in her albums.

BlaqueKnight said:

Who is this "we" he's referring to? I guess he means TGT.

He needs to pick up that Janelle Monae.

Timberlake and Thicke aren't selling R&B, they are selling R&B flavored pop. Justin is a mediocre singer at best. I guess ol' Tank let those record execs get in his head. Neither Thicke nor Timberlake has ever released a record in the likes of Luther Vandross or Stevie. Neither of them have even released something as R&B as Ginuwine's "Pony" and Timberlake is produced by Timbaland, who produced Pony. All they did was dredge up Static Major's old style and have Justin sing it and then slick up the production. Their material is not bad but it is not the cornerstone of R&B. I post new tracks around here often. There's always some good R&B floating around if you are looking for it.

[Edited 2/14/14 12:38pm]

You are exactly right on that! Justin does have sum of the late great Static Major's harmonies(which were brillliant by the way and were intentionally mistaken for Ginuwine's) backing vocals on his records......

kitbradley said:

I love me some Tank, but he uses auto-tune quite a bit. It wish HE would get back to a more traditional R&B.

Last week, Ruben Studdard released, IMO, his greatest album to date. It's very much in a traditional vein. It debuted at #11 on the R&B album chart and something like #46 on the Pop side, which is, at best, a moderate showing on both charts. So, I guess the real question is why is it that labels have decided to stop promoting more traditional sounding R&B records by African-American artists but they are willing to promote the exact same genre if a young, caucasian artist is behind it???

U just answer your own question..

Shawy89 said:

JT's music isn't R&B, and that because he sounds like he's faking it, I know he may not, he loves that genre and he tries as hard as possible to get that R&B sound vocally but he can't because he has limited vocal range hence his voice will never fit R&B that easily.

The best R&B artists of our generation are Frank Ocean and Miguel for males, dunno about females, Janelle's music is regarded as R&B but I think she's more into soul, funk and jazz music in her albums.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Frank Ocean's vocal range is much better than JT's, if at all.

Frank Ocean is just BETTER BETTER BETTER! In EVERY way!

>

Justin MIGHT be cuter.

There's great R&B out there but it doesn't get played on the radio or TV. I just discover shit online. Who even listens to the radio anymore? The sound quality sucks anyway.

MidniteMagnet said:

There's great R&B out there but it doesn't get played on the radio or TV. I just discover shit online. Who even listens to the radio anymore? The sound quality sucks anyway.

You'd be surprised. Most people still listen to the radio. It's definitely where hits are made, for what it's worth.

jojolion said:

Shawy89 said:

JT's music isn't R&B, and that because he sounds like he's faking it, I know he may not, he loves that genre and he tries as hard as possible to get that R&B sound vocally but he can't because he has limited vocal range hence his voice will never fit R&B that easily.

The best R&B artists of our generation are Frank Ocean and Miguel for males, dunno about females, Janelle's music is regarded as R&B but I think she's more into soul, funk and jazz music in her albums.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Frank Ocean's vocal range is much better than JT's, if at all.

At least his deep range makes up for it, he isn't a strong belter, but he's good with falsettos & deep notes, and a deep tone is necessary for R&B music. JT's normal voice is very whiny and childish, it never grew up you know.

I think his WE is pretty much every RB male that is out there right now. 99% sing the same way, same themes, partys girls vip bullshit bullshit bullshit. Cats like Trey Songz and nonsense like that needs to be put down.

The industry does not want African Americans singing traditional R&B. African Americans can not cross over singing traditional R&B. They have to make dance music if they want to cross over or have some type of mainstream success. There are plenty of African Americans that make good quality R&B but will the industry promote them? That is just like how there are a ton of better artists besides the ones constantly shoved down our faces and ears but is the industry promoting them? The industry has more control over who gets marketed and promoted more than what people think.

mjscarousal said:

The industry does not want African Americans singing traditional R&B. African Americans can not cross over singing traditional R&B. They have to make dance music if they want to cross over or have some type of mainstream success. There are plenty of African Americans that make good quality R&B but will the industry promote them? That is just like how there are a ton of better artists besides the ones constantly shoved down our faces and ears but is the industry promoting them? The industry has more control over who gets marketed and promoted more than what people think.

That is why Ne-yo stop releasing traditional rnb singles and went techno. He is making a fortune doing that to. Way more than he made doing rnb. He has been invited often now too perform at all the top rated shows like DWTS....... Usher has also went techno....Plus Prince's new future mega hit, from his most watched after superbowl appearance in "New Girl" called "

Don't U wanna fall n " has a techno beat to it......

[Edited 2/15/14 15:34pm]

AND NO ONE can be compared to Luther Vandross. No one is making music like that.

Damn, I miss Luther.

But Robin Thicke has been holding it down for a while for R&B. That's his bread and butter right there. I would consider JT R&B. But Ruben Studdard did just release an awesome cd..check it out. Babyface and Toni Braxton as well. If it doesn't cross over that should be ok. Not all country artists cross over and are successful, but with R&B it's mandatory or labeled a failure.

Strange, but that's the business.

Shawy89 said:

JT's music isn't R&B, and that because he sounds like he's faking it, I know he may not, he loves that genre and he tries as hard as possible to get that R&B sound vocally but he can't because he has limited vocal range hence his voice will never fit R&B that easily.

The best R&B artists of our generation are Frank Ocean and Miguel for males, dunno about females, Janelle's music is regarded as R&B but I think she's more into soul, funk and jazz music in her albums.

thats sad if Frank Ocean and Miguel are the best. I'd rather hear Pharell and he's not all that.

But Miguel is good in this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxls2xX0Clg

scorp84 said:

I'm so sick and tired of this argument. What difference does it make? Stop worrying about the next person and just make your music!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

mjscarousal said:

The industry does not want African Americans singing traditional R&B. African Americans can not cross over singing traditional R&B. They have to make dance music if they want to cross over or have some type of mainstream success. There are plenty of African Americans that make good quality R&B but will the industry promote them? That is just like how there are a ton of better artists besides the ones constantly shoved down our faces and ears but is the industry promoting them? The industry has more control over who gets marketed and promoted more than what people think.

That is why Ne-yo stop releasing traditional rnb singles and went techno. He is making a fortune doing that to. Way more than he made doing rnb. He has been invited often now too perform at all the top rated shows like DWTS....... Usher has also went techno....Plus Prince's new future mega hit, from his most watched after superbowl appearance in "New Girl" called "

Don't U wanna fall n " has a techno beat to it......

[Edited 2/15/14 15:34pm]

Not really, Happy, Treasure and Get Lucky for example are disco & funk songs with basslines and real instruments, yes, mostly everyone goes techno to have success, but real artists won't go that way.

mjscarousal said:

The industry does not want African Americans singing traditional R&B. African Americans can not cross over singing traditional R&B. They have to make dance music if they want to cross over or have some type of mainstream success. There are plenty of African Americans that make good quality R&B but will the industry promote them? That is just like how there are a ton of better artists besides the ones constantly shoved down our faces and ears but is the industry promoting them? The industry has more control over who gets marketed and promoted more than what people think.

The funny thing is that artists like TANK were a HUGE part of RB's demise, the 90's destroyed traditionally RB, right now name ONE RB band that isnt Mint Condition who are everyones "name on RB Band", U cant because there are none, everyone downgraded music and how it was made, they fool themselves with that ZOMBIE SHEEP saying "there's good music if you look for it" which is stupid because the internet is full of more crap artists than labels are. Problem is and has been for almost 30 years now, you have lawyers running the game, people who graduated in business and law running MUSIC, the music industry stopped being MUSIC when mtv was born, it all became one big corporation. But this happens with all forms of music, RB is not exclusive to this, as soon as something sells people jump in to sell it sell it sell it, till you have people in music that shouldnt even be allowed to listen to it.

RB needs to take a HINT from a show like "that metal show" try to embrace and rebuild, all of a sudden this low budget show, is getting a genre back its respect and giving LIGHT to the older artists who still function WHICH RB does NOT.

JT wouldn't be where he's at without The Neptunes & Timbaland. Like I Love You & Rock Your Body are KILLER beats. Without those JT would have been meh.

Same with Futuresex, the production on it is great. The album is good to listen to for the production alone.

Ginuwine did some real r&b in his prime. So did Tank.... i guess was never really a fan.

lastdecember said:

mjscarousal said:

The industry does not want African Americans singing traditional R&B. African Americans can not cross over singing traditional R&B. They have to make dance music if they want to cross over or have some type of mainstream success. There are plenty of African Americans that make good quality R&B but will the industry promote them? That is just like how there are a ton of better artists besides the ones constantly shoved down our faces and ears but is the industry promoting them? The industry has more control over who gets marketed and promoted more than what people think.

The funny thing is that artists like TANK were a HUGE part of RB's demise, the 90's destroyed traditionally RB, right now name ONE RB band that isnt Mint Condition who are everyones "name on RB Band", U cant because there are none, everyone downgraded music and how it was made, they fool themselves with that ZOMBIE SHEEP saying "there's good music if you look for it" which is stupid because the internet is full of more crap artists than labels are. Problem is and has been for almost 30 years now, you have lawyers running the game, people who graduated in business and law running MUSIC, the music industry stopped being MUSIC when mtv was born, it all became one big corporation. But this happens with all forms of music, RB is not exclusive to this, as soon as something sells people jump in to sell it sell it sell it, till you have people in music that shouldnt even be allowed to listen to it.

RB needs to take a HINT from a show like "that metal show" try to embrace and rebuild, all of a sudden this low budget show, is getting a genre back its respect and giving LIGHT to the older artists who still function WHICH RB does NOT.

excellent points....it's over....

real R&B and authentic black expression died by the end of the 80s.....it was over then

it had already been stamped out

even BET network was declining then incrementally......

when I was 15 years old back in 1987, particularly that summer after my sophomore year in high school....I never ever in a million years thought we would be witnessing what we are today

but the reality is that we are and allot of damage has been done

what really started the decline is that when this Pop Ascension kicked in, those who blood, sweat, and teared to make the very level of music the industry would come to expolit, appropriate, and sample from, those artists never got their credit

and when u don't give respect and acknowledge the luminaries, the ancestors, during the time that it really matters, then failure is sure to follow

at this point, I'm just gonna tell the full truth no matter what......

Scorp said:

lastdecember said:

The funny thing is that artists like TANK were a HUGE part of RB's demise, the 90's destroyed traditionally RB, right now name ONE RB band that isnt Mint Condition who are everyones "name on RB Band", U cant because there are none, everyone downgraded music and how it was made, they fool themselves with that ZOMBIE SHEEP saying "there's good music if you look for it" which is stupid because the internet is full of more crap artists than labels are. Problem is and has been for almost 30 years now, you have lawyers running the game, people who graduated in business and law running MUSIC, the music industry stopped being MUSIC when mtv was born, it all became one big corporation. But this happens with all forms of music, RB is not exclusive to this, as soon as something sells people jump in to sell it sell it sell it, till you have people in music that shouldnt even be allowed to listen to it.

RB needs to take a HINT from a show like "that metal show" try to embrace and rebuild, all of a sudden this low budget show, is getting a genre back its respect and giving LIGHT to the older artists who still function WHICH RB does NOT.

excellent points....it's over....

real R&B and authentic black expression died by the end of the 80s.....it was over then

it had already been stamped out

even BET network was declining then incrementally......

when I was 15 years old back in 1987, particularly that summer after my sophomore year in high school....I never ever in a million years thought we would be witnessing what we are today

but the reality is that we are and allot of damage has been done

what really started the decline is that when this Pop Ascension kicked in, those who blood, sweat, and teared to make the very level of music the industry would come to expolit, appropriate, and sample from, those artists never got their credit

and when u don't give respect and acknowledge the luminaries, the ancestors, during the time that it really matters, then failure is sure to follow

at this point, I'm just gonna tell the full truth no matter what......

Exactly and if you bring up any older decade people will say "oh your old afraid of change", which is another overused term just like "there is good music you just have to look for it" thats total BS cause even when i respected the artistry more i was "looking" for it, people act like "back then" we were handed great new music, NO, but at least the powers that be like RADIO had the choice of making a choice on what they wanna play. Back in the 60's the beatles were having bigger hits with B sides than A sides because DJ's could do that, flip it, today and this is NO LIE. They put people in a room (record people) and play 7 seconds of a song, and then get opinions and then hand it over to radio which is allowed a 10-15 song list that they MUST PLAY, which is selected from that 7 second sample, this is all truth, this is also how the AWARDS shows VOTE, the grammy committee is handed tons of "potientials" but the labels dictate what they want them to vote on. Everything is tied together.

As for RB it was 100% the later 80's and all the 90's that killed it, and people dont like to hear that the 90's killed something but guess what it did, just like Nirvana and Pearl Jam killed of bands like Warrant and Slaughter, and that "hair age" RB suffered at the hands of people who sold it off as soon as Hip Hop became "commercial" and then you can blame everyone from Puffy to Mary J to Wu Tang to Jay Z who formed this "remix" age, where the likes of Mariah Carey lived for awhile, that merger may have been good for the BANK, but the culture suffered, plain and simple.

Sorry to say i dont see an age of "instruments" coming back, not when you can record a hit record on some BS software on your laptop, i mean a kid today sees that and says, why do i need to do any work, and guess what, they are RIGHT, and they learned from the generation before.

lastdecember said:

They put people in a room (record people) and play 7 seconds of a song, and then get opinions

Not really new. In the 1960's and early 1970s, Berry Gordy had his staff judge songs to be released as singles or not, but Berry had the final say. In some cases he vetoed songs like I Heard It Through The Grapevine by Marvin Gaye (because he didn't like it), which was recorded before the other versions (Miracles, Gladys Knight & The Pips), but released later. Then there was the "Rate-A-Record" on American Bandstand and some radio stations had the similar "Rush It or Flush It" (or under other names) in which listeners called in to vote on whether a song would get played or not. In many cases songs that later became nationwide hits were voted down on the individual stations and they wound up playing it anyway.

.

As far as the earlier DJ's choosing songs, they also generally had pre-written playlists, or at least the hit based ones did. But they did sometimes play records they liked that would fit the Top 40 format. They couldn't just play anything. It was not Top 40 that first popularized R&B/rock 'n roll, but the low watt underground stations that could only be heard at certain times of the day that were mainly geared to a Black audience. The DJs did not always choose what they played because they liked the songs, but because label A&R people would pay them money or give them gifts like drugs, girls, booze, clothes, cars, etc. Payola wasn't just invented, it's always been there. The main reason they had the payola hearings in the late 1950s is because they were trying to shut down rock 'n roll (aka race music), which was supposedly corrupting the {white) youth. They didn't have a problem with it before when crooner pop and showtunes was popular.

.

It was FM radio in the late 1960s that started to have more of a choice in their playlists, instead of the earlier AM, which is where most of the hit stations were located. FM took advantage of the then new stereo records and would play longer songs or even an entire album. FM also was a factor in popularizing psychedelic rock, prog rock, hard rock, & metal with the AOR format. AM couldn't broadcast stereo, which is why it started to die off in the 1970s and a lot of it became talk radio/sports and FM became what AM used to be.

you can blame everyone from Puffy to Mary J to Wu Tang to Jay Z who formed this "remix" age, where the likes of Mariah Carey lived for awhile

Remixes came popular around the disco era in the mid 1970s with the creation of the maxi single and by people like Tom Moulton, which is over a decade before these acts.

lastdecember said:

Scorp said:

excellent points....it's over....

real R&B and authentic black expression died by the end of the 80s.....it was over then

it had already been stamped out

even BET network was declining then incrementally......

when I was 15 years old back in 1987, particularly that summer after my sophomore year in high school....I never ever in a million years thought we would be witnessing what we are today

but the reality is that we are and allot of damage has been done

what really started the decline is that when this Pop Ascension kicked in, those who blood, sweat, and teared to make the very level of music the industry would come to expolit, appropriate, and sample from, those artists never got their credit

and when u don't give respect and acknowledge the luminaries, the ancestors, during the time that it really matters, then failure is sure to follow

at this point, I'm just gonna tell the full truth no matter what......

Exactly and if you bring up any older decade people will say "oh your old afraid of change", which is another overused term just like "there is good music you just have to look for it" thats total BS cause even when i respected the artistry more i was "looking" for it, people act like "back then" we were handed great new music, NO, but at least the powers that be like RADIO had the choice of making a choice on what they wanna play. Back in the 60's the beatles were having bigger hits with B sides than A sides because DJ's could do that, flip it, today and this is NO LIE. They put people in a room (record people) and play 7 seconds of a song, and then get opinions and then hand it over to radio which is allowed a 10-15 song list that they MUST PLAY, which is selected from that 7 second sample, this is all truth, this is also how the AWARDS shows VOTE, the grammy committee is handed tons of "potientials" but the labels dictate what they want them to vote on. Everything is tied together.

As for RB it was 100% the later 80's and all the 90's that killed it, and people dont like to hear that the 90's killed something but guess what it did, just like Nirvana and Pearl Jam killed of bands like Warrant and Slaughter, and that "hair age" RB suffered at the hands of people who sold it off as soon as Hip Hop became "commercial" and then you can blame everyone from Puffy to Mary J to Wu Tang to Jay Z who formed this "remix" age, where the likes of Mariah Carey lived for awhile, that merger may have been good for the BANK, but the culture suffered, plain and simple.

Sorry to say i dont see an age of "instruments" coming back, not when you can record a hit record on some BS software on your laptop, i mean a kid today sees that and says, why do i need to do any work, and guess what, they are RIGHT, and they learned from the generation before.

so beautifully put on all aspects

our culture has been obliteterated, and allot of people in our own culture used it up to cash at the bank, they did not appreciate all the hard work behind that great music at all....

other cultures have been used up too

it's all been used up now and there's nothing of substance there.....I dont' see anything

lastdecember, why would you say that about Wu Tang??

anyone can make rap music

anyone can make R&B music

isn't it funny that when a black artist crosses over they get praise

but when a white artist does it people want to hate

give it a rest........it's 2014 already