Hi, I was wondering if we could establish a list of the most influential Afro-American albums of all time? I'm not talking best albums but really genre-defining records.

Spontaneously I could think of...

- Miles Davis' Kind Of Blue (1959), considered to be a turning point in jazz and a milestone of hardbop.

- We may want to add a Coltrane album as well, and quite a number of other jazz records from the 40's, 50's and 60's but not sure which ones, but I guess Duke Ellington, Monk or Mingus could be candidates, or maybe Hancock.

- As for blues, soul, gospel, and early rock & roll, I don't know much about these genres. I guess candidates for soul could be albums by Marvin Gaye or Curtis Mayfield but not sure.

- James Brown: he created funk all by himself but it was a progressive process all along the 60's so not sure which album could be considered the most important/genre defining?

- The Jimi Hendrix Experience: either Are You Experienced? (1967), Electric Ladyland (1967) or Axis: Bold As Love (1968) but not sure which was the most important/genre defining.

- Sly & The Family Stone's Stand! (1969), I think that was their most influential opus?

- Stevie Wonder: either Talking Book (1972) or Innervisions (1973) maybe?

- Clinton/P-Funk: obviously there should be at least an album by the P-Funk tribe but not sure which one. Funkadelic took things were Hendrix had left them so maybe more a Parliament album?

- Not sure about that but I've read that Tower Of Power's first album was quite important in the birth of funk? The Ohio Players and Kool & The Gang were quite early funk combos as well. Late, disco-influenced, 70's funk (the kind of Patrice Rushen or MJ's Off The Wall) could possibly have a candidate.

- Prince's 1999 (1982), popularized the minneapolis sound and made it the dominant sound of the decade.

- I'm really not sure about Thriller (1982) but one could maybe argue that it was important in fusing R&B with "white" pop, a trend that was also important in the 80's.

- Janet Jackson's Control (1986), which basically created the new jack swing genre. One could argue it was Teddy Riley with Guy but I think Control was the real defining moment there.

- Not sure which rap albums would be the most important in the 80's but maybe some early records by Kurtis Blow or The Sugarhill Gang for early years and Public Enemy or Run DMC for the second wave? Herbie Hancock's Future Shock (1983) had quite an impact as well.

- Snoop Dogg's What's My Name (1993). I know Dre's The Chronic (1992) is usually considered the first album of 90's modern west coast genre, but I feel Snoop's album really made it popular and influential, as it was a woldwide major success and basically everything in rap in the 90's was forged following that model.

- I'm really not sure after that, which albums really made a difference after the early 90's?

Obviously I've forgotten many things, or I'm not sure about thers.

Opinions?

You've started with a good selection! I would add:

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Quiet Storm by Smokey Robinson; it can be argued that it "invented" a whole new genre.

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Something by Chic, maybe C'est Chic.

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For the blending of soul and pop, something by The Supremes, though I wouldn't know which album to choose.

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The Tempations's Sky's The Limit, or some other also produced by Norman Whitfield.

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Curtis Mayfield's first album.

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Regarding the 90s, some neo-soul album. My favourite one is D'Angelo's Voodoo, but I wouldn't assure it's the most influential.

[Edited 1/26/14 4:08am]

Javi said:

You've started with a good selection! I would add:

---

Quiet Storm by Smokey Robinson; it can be argued that it "invented" a whole new genre.

---

Something by Chic, maybe C'est Chic.

---

For the blending of soul and pop, something by The Supremes, though I wouldn't know which album to choose.

---

The Tempations's Sky's The Limit, or some other also produced by Norman Whitfield.

---

Curtis Mayfield's first album.

---

Regarding the 90s, some neo-soul album. My favourite one is D'Angelo's Voodoo, but I wouldn't assure it's the most influential.

[Edited 1/26/14 4:08am]

Interesting, I'll have to check out that Smokey album. Chic was indeed crucial when it comes to disco-funk, though rhythmically it could be argued that they just plain copied James Brown's funk pattern. I'll check The Temptation's and The Supremes' albums as well.

Voodoo (from 2000, actually) was a major thing when released, every hipster had to have it. But how influencial it was I couldn't say: to me it was more the most perfected/elaborated statement of modern R&B than a seminal album. On the other hand it could be argued that its acoustic flavour predated the whole neo-soul movement of the 2000's (save Tony Toni Toné most R&B was still highly electronic in the 90's). Maybe therefore the Soulquarians' albums were more influencial than I thought, and if one had to be chosen as the most noticed/influential of them, Voodoo would be the one.

errant said:

I think you're limiting the value of "Afro-American records" if you're only looking at albums, when so many records with an impact came from a time and place where albums were a rather irrelevant afterthought and it was singles that ruled the day.

Interesting perspective. What years/decades would u consider singles to be more impactful than albums?

I'm maybe out of my league here, but I'd say in every decade the song has mattered more than the album, at least outside of maybe the jazz (which I have no handle on at all) and possibly some of the 70's. But that's just my impression of the way most popular genres work in general in America. I'm guessing that in many cases your album choices, while they might be strong "as albums" are often there because of 2 or maybe 3 killer tracks, and a general reasonable level of quality for the rest, especially since you are going for genre-defining or influential rather than consistently great "best ever" albums. And that sort of crystallization happens in a track or two, usually not spread out over the full body of an album. But albums matter--songs would be a different thread.

I do feel that Funkadelic tends to be more thrilling and mind opening than Parliament--and that they do much more than just extending or continuing Hendrix. But as with most of this work, I'm coming at it from after the genres were defined, and often only knowing what's already acclaimed as significant (or seeing everything from that vantage point). It's tough for me to really say what is seminal trying to go back from what eventually developed; everything is removed from its true historical context for me. I know that things often grow from tiny seeds, and the work that ultimately bears the most fruit might not be the obviously great (which is perhaps not the seminal work, but the full flowering of the genre--to thoroughly confuse my metaphor). In fact, a list of those seeds might be really interesting. I've said other places that sometimes hack work might be more important in the history of art than people want to admit... bubblegum and other truly disposable pop (or even only work by mildly talented people who just get hit by a very temporary spark) runs in the veins of many of the great artists, and a history of music that's only the "greatest works" is going to be a very dishonest and inaccurate view of how music really evolves. It would make the fossil record look seamless by comparison. Not that we can fill all those gaps--but the really important, history-changing piece might sometimes be something a handful of artists heard and took to heart, rather than the well-known piece one of those artists eventually made that had its start in the obscure crate-dweller that no one else still remembers.

Anyway, I anticipate hearing what people say, and I'll listen to what I haven't heard. Talk on, people.

databank said:

with the exception of fully-formed country music (Hank Williams onwards) american music was and has been basically shaped by african-americans

too many albums too list...

Javi said:

You've started with a good selection! I would add:

---

Quiet Storm by Smokey Robinson; it can be argued that it "invented" a whole new genre.

---

Something by Chic, maybe C'est Chic.

---

For the blending of soul and pop, something by The Supremes, though I wouldn't know which album to choose.

---

The Tempations's Sky's The Limit, or some other also produced by Norman Whitfield.

---

Curtis Mayfield's first album.

---

Regarding the 90s, some neo-soul album. My favourite one is D'Angelo's Voodoo, but I wouldn't assure it's the most influential.

[Edited 1/26/14 4:08am]

I think the Quiet Storm Genre was created long before Smokey's albm was released. I'd go as far back as the Delfonic's first album.

JB's Live at the Apollo, actually had more on an influence on Rock music than R&B music. R&B cats new about JB, but it was the younf white's that got hip to him with that release. Many covers of I'll Go Crazy and I Don't Mind popped up shortley after the Live at the Apollo release.

Databank, regarding The Temptations, though I consider Sky's The Limit as their best album, probably Cloud Nine would be more influential. I think it was published in 1967, and it marked a major departure from the Motown imprint, both musically (the introduction of long psychedelic-funk jams) and lyrically (not only love songs, but also social protest songs).

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Interesting what errant says, and I totaly agree. That's why I didn't know which Supremes album to choose. Their albums are more a collection of songs, with some killer singles on them, than an album as a whole artistic statement.

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LittleBLUECorvette, you're probably right regarding the Quiet Storm genre. But, although Smokey's album wasn't the first album, I think it's probably the most influential among those who usually get that label. Not only for the obvious reason of the album title, but also for the seamless quality of the music.

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And by the way, which other Quiet Storm albums would you recommend? This question is for LittleBLUE, but also for all people taking part on the thread.

wtf is 'afro american'? why not just say black

lowkey said:

wtf is 'afro american'? why not just say black

wondering that too.

lowkey said:

wtf is 'afro american'? why not just say black

wrong forum

anyway, it's for the same reason whites are called "anglosaxon american" in many circles...

lowkey said:

wtf is 'afro american'? why not just say black

Because black is out of date.

Oh, come on, what a way to spoil the thread! Come on, back on topic: which Stevie Wonder album/s should be on the list? Databank mentions Talking Book and Innervisions. It's likely that Innervisions is the most influential, though I prefer Songs In The Key Of Life. And let's not forget Music Of My Mind: in terms of influence it should be quite high because of the pioneering use of synthesizers thanks to Cecil & Margouleff. Opinions?

[Edited 1/27/14 13:02pm]

Black is dated?.....so Afro American is relevant....ridiculous.

But back on topic...The Delfonics probably were the beginning of quiet storm. And I believe "Songs In the Key of Life" is one of the most influential Black albums. I also think Prince's 1999 is one and also Zapp's debut album.

If you go beyond COLOR then I would include Bobby Caldwell's What You Won't Do for Love as VERY influential. So many great soul records to choose from

Javi said:

Oh, come on, what a way to spoil the thread! Come on, back on topic: which Stevie Wonder album/s should be on the list? Databank mentions Talking Book and Innervisions. It's likely that Innervisions is the most influential, though I prefer Songs In The Key Of Life. And let's not forget Music Of My Mind: in terms of influence it should be quite high because of the pioneering use of synthesizers thanks to Cecil & Margouleff. Opinions?

[Edited 1/27/14 13:02pm]

Thank you.

THRILLER because it blended soul, pop, and rock (Van Halen). This blend caused it's unparallel mass appeal (genius). Also it reigned in th era of a single album having mostly great hit singles rather than just one , two, or three. Also Michael sang his own background (was something totally new in music). This started with OFF THE WALL (not sure).

PURPLE RAIN because it just is.

SONGS IN THE KEY OF LIFE because of 'Isn't She Lovely" lol

I'd add 'What the 411' and 'The miseducation of Lauryn Hill'

I thought "afro-american" or "african-american" was the polite way to say it. In France now u must say "person of XXX origin" instead of color or nationality, u can't say "dwarf" or "blind" or "tramp" anymore, it has to be "small height person", "visually deficient person" or "person without a stable residence", and soon "woman", "child", "animal" and "plant" will probably have to be replaced by "female human", "young human", "non human person" and "vegetal creature" because the old words will be considered offensive, so I thought maybe in the US it was the same...

Back on topic thanks for your opinions and suggestions, please keep adding to the list

databank said:

Hi, I was wondering if we could establish a list of the most influential - We may want to add a Coltrane album as well, and quite a number of other jazz records from the 40's, 50's and 60's but not sure which ones, but I guess Duke Ellington, Monk or Mingus could be candidates, or maybe Hancock.

- Louis Armstrong's Hot Fives and Sevens (may not technically be an album)

- Charlie Parker, Charlie Parker With Strings

- Duke Ellington, Live At Newport (1956)

- Thelonious Monk, Brilliant Corners

- John Coltrane, A Love Supreme

To name a few.

- Ray Charles, Modern Sounds In Country And Western Music


- Gil Scott-Heron, Pieces Of A Man

- Richard Pryor, That N-----'s Crazy

[Edited 1/29/14 14:32pm]

[Edited 1/29/14 14:33pm]

- Public Enemy, It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back

- De La Soul, 3 Feet High & Rising

Frederick96 said:

Black is dated?.....so Afro American is relevant....ridiculous.

But back on topic...The Delfonics probably were the beginning of quiet storm. And I believe "Songs In the Key of Life" is one of the most influential Black albums. I also think Prince's 1999 is one and also Zapp's debut album.

If you go beyond COLOR then I would include Bobby Caldwell's What You Won't Do for Love as VERY influential. So many great soul records to choose from

Is Songs in The Key really influential or just a great album? I think Talking Book was more influential.

Guy

Make It Last Forever

Forever My Lady

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Frederick96 said:

Black is dated?.....so Afro American is relevant....ridiculous.

But back on topic...The Delfonics probably were the beginning of quiet storm. And I believe "Songs In the Key of Life" is one of the most influential Black albums. I also think Prince's 1999 is one and also Zapp's debut album.

If you go beyond COLOR then I would include Bobby Caldwell's What You Won't Do for Love as VERY influential. So many great soul records to choose from

Is Songs in The Key really influential or just a great album? I think Talking Book was more influential.

I agree. To me, it's the best Stevie album and one of the best in the history of popular music, but in terms of influence it's not his most relevant one.