Look, I don't wanna be starting something.

I noticed that, in the music listening world, you appreciate talent, Prince, for example is the dude who plays most of instruments.. That's a musician we talking about.

In most of the debates I been on lately, when somebody discusses a mainstream MALE act, he asks the question: Does he play instruments? Or when he shades somebody, he says, he doesn't even play instruments.. WHY SO

MEANWHILE, when we talk about Janet, or Madonna (FEMALE artists)... we say that they're talented (obv. because they belong to our or their generation), but we never mention the fact that they never played instruments... kinda funny.

All I'm saying, we should stop thinking that "playing instruments" is the only guarantee of talent, you play them, cool, that's a bonus, you don't? Doesn't mean you don't have talent. Janelle Monae is talented, but she doesn't play instruments (as far as I know)... and she IS LOVED here by the orgers, but when it's about Miguel or JT, "hell how many instruments he plays"?....

Hell, even MJ never played one, and YET people claim he's talented & legend, those are the same bunch o' people who still bash mainstream artists for not having that kinda gift..

Anyway I guess even Prince thinks so (that a talented artist is the one who plays instruments) which is so false IMO..

Shawy89 said:

Look, I don't wanna be starting something.

I noticed that, in the music listening world, you appreciate talent, Prince, for example is the dude who plays most of instruments.. That's a musician we talking about.

In most of the debates I been on lately, when somebody discusses a mainstream MALE act, he asks the question: Does he play instruments? Or when he shades somebody, he says, he doesn't even play instruments.. WHY SO

MEANWHILE, when we talk about Janet, or Madonna (FEMALE artists)... we say that they're talented (obv. because they belong to our or their generation), but we never mention the fact that they never played instruments... kinda funny.

All I'm saying, we should stop thinking that "playing instruments" is the only guarantee of talent, you play them, cool, that's a bonus, you don't? Doesn't mean you don't have talent. Janelle Monae is talented, but she doesn't play instruments (as far as I know)... and she IS LOVED here by the orgers, but when it's about Miguel or JT, "hell how many instruments he plays"?....

Hell, even MJ never played one, and YET people claim he's talented & legend, those are the same bunch o' people who still bash mainstream artists for not having that kinda gift..

Anyway I guess even Prince thinks so (that a talented artist is the one who plays instruments) which is so false IMO..

Ok this is how I lay it down. You can mimic anything vocally or self teach via hearing and pull "it" off. I could throw paint on a canvas and draw an outline around my hand - someone may think it is brilliant.

Learning the language of music is what makes it an art. Look at any classical arrangement on paper and it is an almost regal, beautiful language spread over pages and pages, devoted to different instruments and the two clefs. All coming together to make an amazing group of melodies and harmonies.

Kids in school music programs are supposed learn to do this by reading music and performing it. Its a beautiful thing but only in programs such as jazz band do they often get to use their creativity. Its akin to coloring in an outlined picture. When you start drawing extra stuff on the page it gets interesting.

People like Prince, John Mayer, Dr. John, etc. can see and hear both then "riff" or "improvise" or "jam" ad nauseum, in a way speaking through their instruments. Singing with notes.

People like Lady Gaga or Freddie Mercury can play a piano and use their voice as the instrument doing most of the R/I/J.

People like Rihanna, Bieber, Brit-Brit, and Chris Brown bleat out shit lyrics to easy beats that a gang of monkeys could play whilst procreating, often in the most unoriginal patterns.

People like Lady Gaga and Madonna water down their brilliance to keep up with what "sells" to kids who's parents used to spend their parents money on real music, convinced that they just don't get it. Anyone with an ear for real music who saw Gaga sing Applause with the SNL house band should understand that the oontz oontz and the computer sex of the album version is a distraction/gimmick. Those guys can blow.

So playing an instrument does not make sure you're talented. Its more what you do with what you can do. Hope that helps.

Oh and Madonna is a brilliant lyricist. Some of the things she has created over the years have been mind-blowing/game changing. I'm just getting introduced to Janelle Monae but she has the same appeal and an incredible vocal range. MJ didn't play an instrument but he had four BROTHERS with him for many years playing them (with incredible rhythm and style). His voice was the instrument (Sad/weird to say was about MJ but he is gone).

jeidee said:

real music

All music is real, there is no such thing as fake music. Just because one type of music is more complex than another does not make it more "real", no more than a apple pie is more real than an apple. Following book rules does not make music real either. If music does not follow book rules (ie. free jazz, traditional Indian music), it is still music.

Let's debate something completely subjective.

Nah. Fake music is what these kids are being fed. Its automated, auto-tuned, performed by overinflated plastic drugged up twits. You'd think a guy with a handle like Mickey Dolenz would understand fake music.

From Wikipedia:

"Described by Dolenz as initially being "a TV show about an imaginary band [...] that wanted to be The Beatles, [but] that was never successful", the actor-musicians soon became a real band. As Dolenz would later describe it, "The Monkees really becoming a band was like the equivalent of Leonard Nimoy really becoming a Vulcan."^"

"Hey hey we're a marketing ploy, people say we want money now. but we're too busy acting like fakeass beatle clowns"

[Edited 11/18/13 12:41pm]

I dont believe you have to play an instrument to be talented. but when it comes to live shows, having a backing band with real live instruments and knowing how to perform with a band is a big deal to me.

Check out this clip of Jay Kay from Jamiroquai. He composes the song in his head and sings all the individual parts to the musicians.

jeidee said:

Let's debate something completely subjective.

Nah. Fake music is what these kids are being fed. Its automated, auto-tuned, performed by overinflated plastic drugged up twits. You'd think a guy with a handle like Mickey Dolenz would understand fake music.

From Wikipedia:

"Described by Dolenz as initially being "a TV show about an imaginary band [...] that wanted to be The Beatles, [but] that was never successful", the actor-musicians soon became a real band. As Dolenz would later describe it, "The Monkees really becoming a band was like the equivalent of Leonard Nimoy really becoming a Vulcan."^"

"Hey hey we're a marketing ploy, people say we want money now. but we're too busy acting like fakeass beatle clowns"

[Edited 11/18/13 12:41pm]

How the Monkees were put together has nothing to do with music being fake. Many groups were put together. Their music is still real. Peter Tork doesn't like that Leonard Nenoy comment, by the way. Milli Vanilli's music is real, even though Rob & Fab were not the singers. Music cannot be fake, whether it is played by people, by a computer, or birds chirping. What you're saying is musical prejudice, just because it is "commercial" and not to your taste or some so-called high standard, you put it down. But that does not mean it is fake music.

.

As far as drugs are concerned, many jazz, classical, country, classic rock, dance music, funk, R&B, soul, etc. were drug addicts and alcoholics.

[Edited 11/18/13 12:57pm]

MickyDolenz said:

jeidee said:

Let's debate something completely subjective.

Nah. Fake music is what these kids are being fed. Its automated, auto-tuned, performed by overinflated plastic drugged up twits. You'd think a guy with a handle like Mickey Dolenz would understand fake music.

From Wikipedia:

"Described by Dolenz as initially being "a TV show about an imaginary band [...] that wanted to be The Beatles, [but] that was never successful", the actor-musicians soon became a real band. As Dolenz would later describe it, "The Monkees really becoming a band was like the equivalent of Leonard Nimoy really becoming a Vulcan."^"

"Hey hey we're a marketing ploy, people say we want money now. but we're too busy acting like fakeass beatle clowns"

[Edited 11/18/13 12:41pm]

How the Monkees were put together has nothing to do with music being fake. Many groups were put together. Their music is still real. Peter Tork doesn't like that Leonard Nenoy comment, by the way. Milli Vanilli's music is real, even though Rob & Fab were not the singers. Music cannot be fake, whether it is played by people, by a computer, or birds chirping. What you're saying is musical prejudice, just because it is "commercial" and not to your taste or some so-called high standard, you put it down. But that does not mean it is fake music.

.

As far as drugs are concerned, many jazz, classical, country, classic rock, dance music, funk, R&B, soul, etc. were drug addicts and alcoholics.

[Edited 11/18/13 12:57pm]

See I felt ripped off by Milli Vanilli. And C&C Music Factory. And The Monkees. (cuz its fake)

Birds chirpin is nature. Natural/uncontrollable. Computer automation is machinery/factory-like automation. Artificial/controllable.

But I was also mad when I found out Pumpkin Spice Lattes didnt have any pumpkin in them

jeidee said:

See I felt ripped off by Milli Vanilli. And C&C Music Factory. And The Monkees. (cuz its fake)

Birds chirpin is nature. Natural/uncontrollable. Computer automation is machinery/factory-like automation. Artificial/controllable.

But I was also mad when I found out Pumpkin Spice Lattes didnt have any pumpkin in them

If The Monkees are fake, how is it they still tour every so often including this summer, and people go see them? Anyway, a group being fake, does not mean the music is fake. It is still music. Going by your definition, a person playing an instrument makes fake music, because instruments are not natural. Pianos, guitars, and trumpets don't grow out of the ground. So people are playing artificial things, and so it must be fake.

If The Monkees are fake, how is it they still tour every so often including this summer, and people go see them?

Going by your definition, a person playing an instrument makes fake music, because instruments are not natural.

I did not say that. If anything I would say a bird singing is more akin to music than me hitting space bar or an ipad screen every time I want a kick drum.

Its the deception and the insincerity that make me call it fake, the lack of authenticity. No doubt it is "real" as in it "exists". Does that satisfy ya, Mick? The Monkees (for the most part) were actors. Rob & Fab were not singing, but we thought they were. Zelma Davis was an actress.

There's many different things that make someone talented.

I like artists for different reasons not all for musicianship.

Some are talented at writing
Some are talented at singing
Some are talented at rapping
Some are talented at producing
Some are talented at meshing songs together that have already been made

I like Bob Dylan cause he is an amazing writer... not his musician skills.

I love Fishbone as a band cause there amazing musicians and can play any genre.

I love John Lee Hooker, R. Kelly, and Rob Halford for their voices. But don't think there writing is anything amazing.

I Think Kid Cudi is a meh rapper, horrible singer, and sometimes his writing is borderline campy. But i feel he puts a lot of work into production! and i can really feel his music means the world to him. So, i dig his music for that purpose.

There's tons of reasons to like an artist i may pick on some artists i highly dislike. But, i do think that ''real music'' shit is old. I hate when someone goes on youtube to comment ''yeah man i'm 13 real music yeah yeah''

jeidee said:

If The Monkees are fake, how is it they still tour every so often including this summer, and people go see them?

Because you cannot simply discount "how they were formed". They were/are a gimmick. A catchy gimmick or novelty act. Meant to sell a TV show to kids. It worked but its still fake.

Going by your definition, a person playing an instrument makes fake music, because instruments are not natural.

I did not say that. If anything I would say a bird singing is more akin to music than me hitting space bar or an ipad screen every time I want a kick drum.

Its the deception and the insincerity that make me call it fake, the lack of authenticity. No doubt it is "real" as in it "exists". Does that satisfy ya, Mick? The Monkees (for the most part) were actors. Rob & Fab were not singing, but we thought they were. Zelma Davis was an actress.

So if someone is an actor, they can't be a singer or vice versa? What about Sammy Davis Jr, Gene Kelly, Judy Garland, Dean Martin, Julie Andrews, Kevin Bacon, etc? Zelma Davis did sing on some of C+C's songs like Just A Touch Of Love. Zelma's and Martha Wash's voices are different.

[Edited 11/18/13 14:03pm]

You make me smile, MickyDolenz.

And by smile I mean hang myself.

While listening to Blame It On The Rain and drinking a pumpkin spice latte.

I've heard people on this site use the "but they can't even play an instrument" dissmissal toward singers.

What a load of rubbish.

First of all, just about anyone can learn how to play an instrument to a good standard. That shit just takes time and effort. I admire the musician that wants to dedicate themselves to the one instrument (the voice is an insturment).

Second of all, do you think singers don't train their voices and learn scales, tone, projection, phrasing etc just like a guitarist does?

Yes, they do.

I don't give a shit if you sing, play the bongos, the piano or whatever. A great musician is a great musician, there is no time for classist shit in music. That's the antithesis of art.

Playing instruments doesn't neccessarily imply talent, it is the level of musicianship and creativity you can bring out of it. Learning to play basketball or "Mary Had A Little Lamb" for piano can be a learned skill, playing in the NBA or at Carnegie Hall takes talent.

Many people fail to realize voice is an instrument and if often the lead track or treble clef in many cases, unless you are doing a standard classical arrangement with proper STAB notation.

What makes talent is how you can place all of those elements together and you get:

Jimmy Jam/Terry Lewis

Brian Michael Cox

Babyface

Brian McKnight

Stevie Wonder

Scott Storch

Devante Swing

R. Kelly

Teddy Riley

Prince

These groups above have forged the last 40 years of not just American Music, but music period.

Those individuals are just the tip of the iceberg for multi-instrumentalist who are the "real deal" and make "real music", not Miley Cyrus gunk....

Shawy89 said:

Look, I don't wanna be starting something.

I noticed that, in the music listening world, you appreciate talent, Prince, for example is the dude who plays most of instruments.. That's a musician we talking about.

In most of the debates I been on lately, when somebody discusses a mainstream MALE act, he asks the question: Does he play instruments? Or when he shades somebody, he says, he doesn't even play instruments.. WHY SO

MEANWHILE, when we talk about Janet, or Madonna (FEMALE artists)... we say that they're talented (obv. because they belong to our or their generation), but we never mention the fact that they never played instruments... kinda funny.

All I'm saying, we should stop thinking that "playing instruments" is the only guarantee of talent, you play them, cool, that's a bonus, you don't? Doesn't mean you don't have talent. Janelle Monae is talented, but she doesn't play instruments (as far as I know)... and she IS LOVED here by the orgers, but when it's about Miguel or JT, "hell how many instruments he plays"?....

Hell, even MJ never played one, and YET people claim he's talented & legend, those are the same bunch o' people who still bash mainstream artists for not having that kinda gift..

Anyway I guess even Prince thinks so (that a talented artist is the one who plays instruments) which is so false IMO..

Michael Jackson did play instruments

Janelle Monae does play instruments

************************************

The only reason why JT and Miguel get bash for not playing instruments is because the media is always comparing them to artists that are musicians that play 100 instruments lol. For instance, its bewildering why anyone would compare Miguel to Prince when he has never played an instrument in his life. I dont get the comparision or see any similiarity between their music either. JT gets compared to MJ, Elton John and Stevie Wonder but he doesnt write none of his music, is not a good dancer, does not have creative music videos or plays an instrument exceptionally well. They get compared to artists that are way above their level of talent. So those are the reasons why those

artists get criticized.

***********************************

Alot of people criticize Janet and Madonna on this site as well. However, most people understand that they are not musicians and they are hardly ever compared to other female or male musicians. So there would be no reason to criticize them for not being musicians. I've heard people compare JT to Sammy Davis Jr thats just a cardinal sin against entertainment/music lol

**********************************

But to answer your question, you dont have to play a instrument to be a really good artist or to be talented. There is alot of other things that goes into music such as songwriting, producing, vocal arrangement etc There are different types of talent and playing instruments does not define "musical talent". There are artists who I think are musical geniuses that dont play 50 instruments but they have an exceptional understanding of vocals, music, rhythm, production, composition, songwriting and arrangment. In other words, they have an exceptional understanding of music which does not require one to play 50 instruments in order to have.

[Edited 11/18/13 19:52pm]

And one more things - the voice is a fricking instrument...OBVIOUSLY!

'Is playing instruments what makes sure you're talented?'

No, being GOOD at playing an instrument is what makes you talented, not simply playing it.

mjscarousal said:

Shawy89 said:

Look, I don't wanna be starting something.

I noticed that, in the music listening world, you appreciate talent, Prince, for example is the dude who plays most of instruments.. That's a musician we talking about.

In most of the debates I been on lately, when somebody discusses a mainstream MALE act, he asks the question: Does he play instruments? Or when he shades somebody, he says, he doesn't even play instruments.. WHY SO

MEANWHILE, when we talk about Janet, or Madonna (FEMALE artists)... we say that they're talented (obv. because they belong to our or their generation), but we never mention the fact that they never played instruments... kinda funny.

All I'm saying, we should stop thinking that "playing instruments" is the only guarantee of talent, you play them, cool, that's a bonus, you don't? Doesn't mean you don't have talent. Janelle Monae is talented, but she doesn't play instruments (as far as I know)... and she IS LOVED here by the orgers, but when it's about Miguel or JT, "hell how many instruments he plays"?....

Hell, even MJ never played one, and YET people claim he's talented & legend, those are the same bunch o' people who still bash mainstream artists for not having that kinda gift..

Anyway I guess even Prince thinks so (that a talented artist is the one who plays instruments) which is so false IMO..

Michael Jackson did play instruments

Janelle Monae does play instruments

************************************

The only reason why JT and Miguel get bash for not playing instruments is because the media is always comparing them to artists that are musicians that play 100 instruments lol. For instance, its bewildering why anyone would compare Miguel to Prince when he has never played an instrument in his life. I dont get the comparision or see any similiarity between their music either. JT gets compared to MJ, Elton John and Stevie Wonder but he doesnt write none of his music, is not a good dancer, does not have creative music videos or plays an instrument exceptionally well. They get compared to artists that are way above their level of talent. So those are the reasons why those

artists get criticized.

***********************************

Alot of people criticize Janet and Madonna on this site as well. However, most people understand that they are not musicians and they are hardly ever compared to other female or male musicians. So there would be no reason to criticize them for not being musicians. I've heard people compare JT to Sammy Davis Jr thats just a cardinal sin against entertainment/music lol

**********************************

But to answer your question, you dont have to play a instrument to be a really good artist or to be talented. There is alot of other things that goes into music such as songwriting, producing, vocal arrangement etc There are different types of talent and playing instruments does not define "musical talent". There are artists who I think are musical geniuses that dont play 50 instruments but they have an exceptional understanding of vocals, music, rhythm, production, composition, songwriting and arrangment. In other words, they have an exceptional understanding of music which does not require one to play 50 instruments in order to have.

[Edited 11/18/13 19:52pm]

I don't know about Michael Jackson playing but I know you're a big fan so if you say so..and about Janelle Monae yes she plays instruments..in her audition days she was touring in the Atlanta campuses playing her guitar..plus she played the guitar on stage sometimes..and I saw her performing with the piano like once or 2..I wish she'd play more in her shows to be honest..she's not of course a MUSICIAN but she plays..Madonna I think played the drums in the early stages of her career or not? but I never saw her play again..strange..anyway I agree it's not the number of instruments you play that makes you good but there are definitely other aspects..it's a combination of a lot of aspects..even though I really admire people who are really GOOD with multiple instruments..

[Edited 11/19/13 4:26am]

[Edited 11/19/13 4:28am]

If you don't play instruments, at least have the good sense and good taste to hire people that do play instruments to play on your songs. It doesn't matter how talented a singer you are, the songs are going to sound like shit if they have Fisher Price toys behind the voice. And the hell with the stripped down, sitting on a stool, playing an accoustical guitar with no other instruments sounding like Buck Owens and Roy Clark on "Hee Haw". That sounds like shit too. Get some drums and bass on it. In other words, either throwdown or sit down. Talent means nothing if it sounds like shit.

jeidee said:

Because you cannot simply discount "how they were formed". They were/are a gimmick.

Everything is a gimmick. Everything has a "hook" to catch people in it and give it an interesting angle. White rock n roll bands playing the music of the likes of Chuck Berry was a total gimmick. Does that mean you can discredit The Beatles? The Jackson 5 were a gimmick. Brothers in a group. That's a gimmick. By the standards of the day, they were also manufactured - Berry Gordy picked the songs, picked the producers and the musicians, his people picked their outfits, they made up a fake story about Diana discovering them when she didn't, they lied about MJ's age, they told them exactly what to say in interviews.

Playing an instrument is a one singular example of talent. But a lot of musical snobs consider this the be-all and end-all. Look at Madeon - 19 year old kid who mashed up 30+ different songs ( "Pop Culture") using a Launchpad. Got millions of hits on YouTube and now he is producing on Gaga's album and DJ'ing across the world. I have a lot of understanding of music production, and I even own the exact same Launchpad. Yet it would take me hours, days, probably weeks to figure out and learn how he did it. That's talent. Musical snobs will say "he's just pressing buttons". Elitism and snobbery.

If it was so easy to do what Britney, Gaga, Katy Perry do and have a #1 hit with it, then everyone would do it.

All this stuff about "manufactured" and "real music" and bla bla bla is for the birds. It's dismissive cynical nonsense by bitter people. There's more good music than ever before. Some of it is made by people playing instruments and some of it isn't. Some of it is made by people who understand theory and/or read music and some of it isn't.

Musical aptitude means absolutely nothing if you can't delivery a good end product. I love Prince (for example) not because he plays 28453 instruments. I love him because he's a helluva songwriter.

Militant said:

jeidee said:

Because you cannot simply discount "how they were formed". They were/are a gimmick.

Everything is a gimmick. Everything has a "hook" to catch people in it and give it an interesting angle. White rock n roll bands playing the music of the likes of Chuck Berry was a total gimmick. Does that mean you can discredit The Beatles? The Jackson 5 were a gimmick. Brothers in a group. That's a gimmick. By the standards of the day, they were also manufactured - Berry Gordy picked the songs, picked the producers and the musicians, his people picked their outfits, they made up a fake story about Diana discovering them when she didn't, they lied about MJ's age, they told them exactly what to say in interviews.

Playing an instrument is a one singular example of talent. But a lot of musical snobs consider this the be-all and end-all. Look at Madeon - 19 year old kid who mashed up 30+ different songs ( "Pop Culture") using a Launchpad. Got millions of hits on YouTube and now he is producing on Gaga's album and DJ'ing across the world. I have a lot of understanding of music production, and I even own the exact same Launchpad. Yet it would take me hours, days, probably weeks to figure out and learn how he did it. That's talent. Musical snobs will say "he's just pressing buttons". Elitism and snobbery.

If it was so easy to do what Britney, Gaga, Katy Perry do and have a #1 hit with it, then everyone would do it.

All this stuff about "manufactured" and "real music" and bla bla bla is for the birds. It's dismissive cynical nonsense by bitter people. There's more good music than ever before. Some of it is made by people playing instruments and some of it isn't. Some of it is made by people who understand theory and/or read music and some of it isn't.

Musical aptitude means absolutely nothing if you can't delivery a good end product. I love Prince (for example) not because he plays 28453 instruments. I love him because he's a helluva songwriter.

Very good point!

I'm gonna say it: I can't stand the early Beatles stuff. It was only after they got creative with it that I got into it. I am a music snob. I can't stand for music that I think is unappealing or insincere. Its like all the kids on the team getting a trophy or Barney saying everyone is special. If everyone is special then being special is nothing special. Its the norm. Just because you strap on an instrument and gyrate in front of a mic I am not gonna be turned on. The artist has to turn the listener on, and thats where talent comes in.

Regarding Madeon, Diplo, mashups, Girl Talk - its entertaining and its made of music that exists but its like a collage. Sort of like how William Burroughs would cut up articles and paste the strips of articles together to attempt to make a narrative. Or like a teenage girl pasting all the hot boys from Tiger Beat on her wall. Its interesting or cute for a few weeks, months, maybe years but usually it doesn't work for longevity. Anyone can do it. Diplo is now a big producer and its clear he has barely any proper musical training but an incredible sense of rhythm. The tech that made us go wow goddam 10 years ago is now in everyone's bedroom. It'll probably be in a landfill in another 5 years.

The joy isn't in the machines. It is just pushing buttons. Usually with stuff someone else made.

I don't believe that everything is a gimmick. People like Prince are here for a reason and they are brilliant when they shine.

Oh and I have only bought a handful of records in the past five years, because most of it is cheap shit. I've got my crates of good and my drive of good. I'm fine with being hard to impress.

Maybe we should understand the different roles that come to create music. Each one is important to the creation and recording of music. With new technology some of these roles get blended together. In the end, all that matter is the result.

Vocalist-someone who make musical sounds with his or her voice

musician-a person who plays a musical instrument

arranger-someone who takes a written piece of music and adapts for musical presentation

composer-someone who write an original piece of music

lyricist- someone who writes lyrics for a song

songwriter- someone who composes lyrics and sometimes the music for a song

producer-someone who directs the presentation or recording of a song or piece of music

audio engineer-someone who records and develops the sound for a musical recording

jeidee said:

I can't stand for music that I think is unappealing or insincere.

But that's totally subjective. There are people in this world who think the music YOU love is unappealing or insincere. That opinion is no less or more valid than yours.

If you can do one thing well, you are talented.

If you can do more than one thing well, you are multi-talented.

Militant said:

jeidee said:

I can't stand for music that I think is unappealing or insincere.

But that's totally subjective. There are people in this world who think the music YOU love is unappealing or insincere. That opinion is no less or more valid than yours.

To me my opinion means everything This is in essence a subjective topic. Cheers to subjectivity.

The voice is an instrument. Singers like Whitney, Glady's, Patti are wonderful and talented with their vocals.

lrn36 said:

Check out this clip of Jay Kay from Jamiroquai. He composes the song in his head and sings all the individual parts to the musicians.

I like the way they sound and I think that guy has some talent, but damn I wish he was better at writing lyrics and that he actually had something to say.

Interesting thread