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Thread started 10/15/13 8:00pm

HAPPYPERSON

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame: The case for Whitney Houston

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame: The case for Whitney Houston[img:$uid]http://www.lipstickalley.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89889&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1381889453[/img:$uid]Tomorrow, the nominees will be announced for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame’s Class of 2014. Whitney Houston’s name probably won’t be among them.It should be.In the 1980s, there were two singers whose talents were so colossal that popular music is still shaking from the impact of the records they made. Michael Jackson was inducted into the hall in a walk. Houston, who has been eligible for four years, has never even made the nominees list.Why is that? Jackson was a visionary songwriter, as well as an astonishing singer. That’s significant. If the hall were only big enough for one ’80s superstar, he would be the choice. The gap between Jackson and Houston, however, isn’t as wide as it’s often made out to be. Jackson’s hall case was airtight, but Houston deserves to be right there on his heels.You could call Houston influential, but that is like calling the Earth a rock. It’s technically true, but it’s a massive, misleading understatement. Popular singing since "Saving All My Love for You" has been one long chase of her shadow.Stars themselves concede this. Katy Perry pointedly closed her last tour with a version of "I Wanna Dance With Somebody (Who Loves Me)." Houston’s voice isn’t just echoing on Top 40 radio, either — rock singers from the internationally famous (Hayley Williams of Paramore) to the alternative and experimental (Amber Coffman of Dirty Projectors) nick her cadences, her inflections, her lightning-flash upper register, her sudden earthy growls, her carefully controlled melisma. Traces of her delivery show up all over the country stations, too — it’s impossible to imagine Carrie Underwood or Faith Hill without Houston’s example. The imaginative rock-soul hybrid artists of the past few years — The Weeknd, Janelle Monáe, Bruno Mars, Frank Ocean — all make their debt to Houston apparent.It is no great exaggeration to say that Houston taught a generation of entertainers how to sing.Houston’s musical education came in church. At New Hope Baptist in Newark, she learned from the masters: Not only her mother, Cissy, and her cousin Dionne Warwick, but also the ordinary parishioners in the choir, who chased transcendence through gospel music every Sunday morning. As a grown-up, Whitney fused the devotional fire of Cissy Houston’s singing with the tight, scrupulous narrative presentation characteristic of Warwick’s records. She reached for the stratosphere within the confines of the three-minute pop song. In so doing, she carried on several traditions at once, one of which was the thread of gospel-inspired popular music that the hall has always insisted it intended to honor.In the mid-1980s, music was in trouble. New recording and performing technologies had opened up possibilities for musicians and producers, many of which were rewarding. But exploration for its own sake often led to records that were technically brilliant, but felt sterile. More than anybody else, it was Houston who brought popular music back to church, and reminded everybody how far from its gospel moorings American song had drifted.At the time of her greatest fame, her hits were dismissed by many rock purists as anodyne pop, fit only for teen dances and summertime cruises. Those who demanded that Houston be the second coming of Aretha Franklin (and nothing but) were disappointed. Yet in concert, Houston opened these songs up, exposed their gospel roots, and demonstrated that her voice was an instrument too expressive for any genre to contain.It is telling that the years since their recording haven’t tarnished her hits. "I Wanna Dance," "So Emotional," "How Will I Know," "Didn’t We Almost Have It All" and others turned out to be far from ephemeral. These records are now as indelible as any from the Day-Glo decade. They still supply chills.It will be argued that Houston was insufficiently "rock" for enshrinement. Leaving aside the fact that the hall saw fit to induct Madonna, whose records were farther from the roots of American music than Houston’s ever were, this depends on your definition of rock. If you believe that rock is music made by a man with a guitar, a battery of blues licks and a distortion pedal, then of course Houston doesn’t qualify. But the hall does not endorse this definition. In an effort to grapple with the complex and thorny tale of American popular music, it has chosen to include disco singers, doo-wop combos, offbeat singer-songwriters, rappers and deejays.The hall is supposed to stand as a reminder that rock is not epitomized by arena guitar bands: Part of its mission is a callback to a prior era of song built on the expressive relationship between the singer and the spirit she’s channeling. And if you believe the woman with the microphone is at least as important a part of the ongoing story of rock as the man with the guitar, then Houston walks in, because no woman of her era went harder with that microphone than she did. Just ask a singer — any singer, in any style.Houston had a difficult tightrope walk. In order to reach a mass audience, she had to de-emphasize the parts of her music that might have discomfited the majority of Americans. Like Jackson, she made major compromises, and we’re never going to know for sure how much those compromises cost her.In retrospect, she had almost as much to do with the desegregation of MTV and mainstream radio as Jackson did. She squeezed all the effulgence she could into the commercial song, and in so doing, set a standard that thousands of other singers have tried, and failed, to live up to.Contemporary music cannot be understood without engaging with Whitney Houston, and the closer you listen to her music, the clearer you can hear the past, too. If that’s not a Hall of Famer, I don’t know what is.http://www.nj.com/entertainment/music/index.ssf/2013/10/rock_and_roll_hall_of_fame_the_case_for_whitney_houston.html
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Reply #1 posted 10/15/13 8:57pm

EddieC

I'm gonna get slammed for this--

I really don't get Whitney Houston. I never listened to anything beyond the singles, but I had pretty much lost any interest in them after feeling some sense of promise from "You Give Good Love" and "Saving All My Love" and then, honestly, there were years of nothing I much cared to listen to but that got lots of airplay, so I did listen to it. I'm not knocking her skills as a singer, but I just didn't hear songs I liked from her. She had an impressive instrument in her voice--but I don't know of any times that she brought her chops to bear on material I really felt strongly positive about. The songs I knew were passable, they were okay--but as a body of work, not really something I was drawn to.

I admit that I'm only familiar with the singles from the early part of her career; after about '98 or so, I couldn't call to mind most of her later singles. Maybe that's just some sort of blanking out of my memory, or maybe it's that she didn't get played on the stations I had access to (I have no idea if any of these songs were hits on any charts). Maybe there's something there that would change my mind. If a case for her greatness is based on the first ten years or so--well, I don't see it. I know people cite her all the time, I know singers talk about her with awe--but I just hear someone who did okay with okay songs, who sometimes oversang what amounted to trifles, and ultimately left no sense (in my mind) of an actual artist with a vision of her own (and people can accomplish that even if they don't write--and as far as I know she didn't).

I'm kind of surprised (though I'd never thought about it) that she's not already in if she's been eligible--but I don't really know what she did to deserve it.

[Edited 10/15/13 21:00pm]

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Reply #2 posted 10/16/13 3:12am

mynameisnotsus
an

If there's a Singers Hall of Fame or Vocalists Hall of Fame she absolutely belongs there. Rock n Roll? Not so much.
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Reply #3 posted 10/16/13 3:48am

LiLi1992

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Whitney is not one of the obvious candidates for inclusion in the Hall of Fame, to be honest, but if they are considering the candidacy of LL Cool J, then anything is possible.

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Reply #4 posted 10/16/13 6:22am

vainandy

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HAPPYPERSON said:

You could call Houston influential,

You got that right. She damn sure was.

Houston taught a generation of entertainers how to sing.

She sure did. And look what she taught them to sing.

In the mid-1980s, music was in trouble.

No it wasn't. It was at it's absolute best until she came along and ruined it.

More than anybody else, it was Houston who brought popular music back to church, and reminded everybody how far from its gospel moorings American song had drifted.

Well, she should have become a gospel singer then....in a white church....because she was definitely a black version of Debby Boone.

Leaving aside the fact that the hall saw fit to induct Madonna, whose records were farther from the roots of American music than Houston’s ever were,

She deserved it more. She had more rhythm in her bones.

In order to reach a mass audience, she had to de-emphasize the parts of her music that might have discomfited the majority of Americans. Like Jackson, she made major compromises, and we’re never going to know for sure how much those compromises cost her.In retrospect, she had almost as much to do with the desegregation of MTV and mainstream radio as Jackson did. She squeezed all the effulgence she could into the commercial song, and in so doing, set a standard that thousands of other singers have tried, and failed, to live up to.

And that's the worst part about her. She was an absolute sellout following the direction of her old silver balled mentor trying to reach the largest audience possible from not only all races, but all ages as well. Ain't nothing more "uncool" than someone who makes music a grandmother would like. The coolest genres such as rock and funk have been about rebellion. She made it "cool" to be a goodie two shoes. barf

Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #5 posted 10/16/13 11:20am

Cinny

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While a super star and an amazing voice, her music and style did not reflect Rock N Roll at all.

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Reply #6 posted 10/16/13 11:26am

scorp84

No case should have to be made IMO. She deserves it.
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Reply #7 posted 10/16/13 11:34am

coltrane3

Cinny said:

While a super star and an amazing voice, her music and style did not reflect Rock N Roll at all.

Oh please, you have to know by now that the "rock and roll" hall of fame isn't really genre-specific and that artists from a variety of music genres are inducted. Yet, every year, people cry out "but they're not rock and roll."

I get the point - on it's face it may seem absurd to induct rappers and pop stars into something called the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.

But, it is what it is, and there's no turning back. I doubt they're going to rename it "Several (but not all) Major Generes of Music Hall of Fame" or simply "Music Hall of Fame."

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Reply #8 posted 10/16/13 12:16pm

Cinny

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coltrane3 said:

Cinny said:

While a super star and an amazing voice, her music and style did not reflect Rock N Roll at all.

Oh please, you have to know by now that the "rock and roll" hall of fame isn't really genre-specific and that artists from a variety of music genres are inducted. Yet, every year, people cry out "but they're not rock and roll."

I get the point - on it's face it may seem absurd to induct rappers and pop stars into something called the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.

But, it is what it is, and there's no turning back. I doubt they're going to rename it "Several (but not all) Major Generes of Music Hall of Fame" or simply "Music Hall of Fame."

I also don't cry when every great hip-hop act is overlooked. At least the non-rock ones they DO induct had a spirit of rebellion or shaping the culture in an original way.

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Reply #9 posted 10/16/13 12:55pm

mjscarousal

Whitney definitly deserves to be in it. Whitney is by far the best female POP vocalist of all time, key word POP lol. If Madonna, Donna Summer, etc can get in... why cant Whitney? I think she is more than deserving

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Reply #10 posted 10/16/13 2:52pm

Cinny

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mjscarousal said:

Whitney definitly deserves to be in it. Whitney is by far the best female POP vocalist of all time, key word POP lol. If Madonna, Donna Summer, etc can get in... why cant Whitney? I think she is more than deserving

Madonna and Donna were trailblazers and innovators, Donna for Disco, and Madonna much like Michael Jackson, being a songwriter as well as overall performer.

Meanwhile, Whitney was covering "Jesus Loves Me".

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Reply #11 posted 10/17/13 4:07pm

AlexdeParis

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mjscarousal said:

Whitney definitly deserves to be in it. Whitney is by far the best female POP vocalist of all time, key word POP lol. If Madonna, Donna Summer, etc can get in... why cant Whitney? I think she is more than deserving


More importantly, Whitney Houston is probably the most influencial vocalist (male or female) of the past 30-40 years (at least).

"Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis
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Reply #12 posted 10/17/13 4:30pm

bashraka

Cinny said:

While a super star and an amazing voice, her music and style did not reflect Rock N Roll at all.

There are plenty of artists in the rock and roll hall of fame whose music and style does not reflect the Jan Wenner definition of "Rock N Roll". I'm not a Whitney Houston fan at all, but if Madonna and Donna Summers are enshrined, why not Houston?

3121 #1 THIS YEAR
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Reply #13 posted 10/17/13 6:15pm

Timmy84

Disco (D. Summer) and dance pop (Madonna) gets a pass in that Hall. Whitney was technically from the school of Aretha and the Supremes and they're both in the Hall...don't believe me, examine her career from beginning to end. The results would shock you. lol Only thing Aretha probably had over the Supremes was she could write and play piano and record with actual rockers (Clapton, Duane Allman, Keith Richards, etc.) but that's besides the point.

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Reply #14 posted 10/18/13 3:07pm

Cinny

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AlexdeParis said:

mjscarousal said:

Whitney definitly deserves to be in it. Whitney is by far the best female POP vocalist of all time, key word POP lol. If Madonna, Donna Summer, etc can get in... why cant Whitney? I think she is more than deserving


More importantly, Whitney Houston is probably the most influencial vocalist (male or female) of the past 30-40 years (at least).

THIS is a compelling argument, regardless of any "spirit of rock n roll" talk I was posting earlier this week. That is really what it should be about.

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Reply #15 posted 10/18/13 3:08pm

Cinny

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bashraka said:

Cinny said:

While a super star and an amazing voice, her music and style did not reflect Rock N Roll at all.

There are plenty of artists in the rock and roll hall of fame whose music and style does not reflect the Jan Wenner definition of "Rock N Roll". I'm not a Whitney Houston fan at all, but if Madonna and Donna Summers are enshrined, why not Houston?

shrug Maybe next year.

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Reply #16 posted 10/18/13 9:46pm

LittleBLUECorv
ette

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She'll be in.

Suprised Janet Jackson is not in yet.

PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
-----
Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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Reply #17 posted 10/19/13 5:05pm

murph

LiLi1992 said:

Whitney is not one of the obvious candidates for inclusion in the Hall of Fame, to be honest, but if they are considering the candidacy of LL Cool J, then anything is possible.

Actually, LL makes perfect sense for the Hall...

Let's put it this way....Def Jam Records is known as the most important (and arguably greatest) hip-hop record label of all time...They basically released a string of singles and albums that shaped hip-hop's popularity and future....Public Enemy, Beastie Boys, Slick Rick....ect....Def Jam is basically what Sun Records is to early Rock N Roll; what Motown is to R&B/SOUL....Game changing history...

So the year is 1985...Def Jam had just got started as a record label. They released one one-off single from T La Rock ("It's Your")...A modest jam that rocked NYC...

BUT...Def Jam had yet to make the dent that they needed to become a commercial national success...Enter LL Cool J...

LL became Def Jam's first franchise act with the release of Radio (1985)...He was the first solo hip-hop act to have the level of success of Run DMC...Without LL there is no Def Jam....(Not to mention his career streatched well beyond the 80's...LL was still cranking out hits in 2002....

So if you are the artist largely responsible for the success of the most important hip-hop label of all time, of course you should be in the hall...

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Reply #18 posted 10/19/13 5:19pm

murph

People...The answer is simple....The Hall doesn't like Middle of the Road acts...

There 's a reason Barbara Streisand (great voice) is not in the hall...Neither is Barry Mannilow...Nor is Lionel Ritchie.....And I will bet money that Celine Dion won't make it either....These acts while talented in their own ways represent the opposite of the rebellion, attititude or left field spirit of Rock N Roll...

Whitney falls into the same box.......Too pop for the Hall...Way too gentle, corporate, polished...

So why Diana and no Whitney? Because Ms. Ross made pop music that still worked within the margins of soul music as a member of the Supremes...And let's face it...Those Supreme songs were GREAT, well written songs...

Donna got in because disco was a HUGE deal culturally (Plus she mixed it up a lot musically...A song like "Hot Stuff" got play on rock stations and actually was promoted like a rock song, even won a "rock" Grammy)

There is a chance that Whitney may make it because she is no longer with us (in death, artists tend to get a second look...)...

But I see Luther Vandross getting in first, given his connection to rock n roll (He was known as one of the best session singers in the business in the 70s...His work with David Bowie was dope...)...

But yeah...Whitney is a tough call...If she gets in it will be more because of her sudden death....

[Edited 10/19/13 17:21pm]

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Reply #19 posted 10/19/13 6:16pm

Cinny

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MURPH gets it. Thanks for those last two posts!

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Reply #20 posted 10/20/13 2:57pm

lastdecember

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I understand the "case" for her, but there are alot of cases out there and she shouldnt be in, nor should Mariah Carey or Celine Dion, if they go in then Barry Manilow has to be let in since he crossed alot of genres and had tons of hits throughout the 70's which is the era the HALL loves to death, if they could put Eric Clapton in for taking a shit they would, the guy is in there for every step he made. But to me the Mariahs Whitneys Celines NO. True she had tons of hits sold tons of records but lets be real if they are gonna give Bon Jovi shit for ballads and being to MOR then shit Whitney and Mariah better not be looked at. This is why alot of artists wont get in, you arent gonna see Depeche Mode, Duran or any of them in there because unlike U2 and REM they were too mainstream, and 80's for the HALL. The Hall HATES the 80's with a passion if you were a 70's artist you better have shot yourself or been murdered or OD'd thats how you get in, if you had hits in the 80's like Chicago did, or Hall and Oates HAHAHA you arent getting a vote.

As for the LL thing i would put him in, i actually get him and RunDmc, Public Enemy and the Beastie Boys but please draw the freaking line when we get to puffy. The HALL is going to have some issues now as we approach bands and artists from the 90's becoming eligible, after Nirvana and Pearl Jam to me there is no other Rock Band that should be looked at for induction, maybe Lenny Kravitz at some point, possibly and thats a BIG POSSIBLY since he is like a "mix" of artists already in the HOF. As we move on i think Ryan Adams is a must, and honestly i make the case for Minneapolis BAnd the Jayhawks. Because that era saw alot of bands that got lumped in with being country when they werent close to it. Alison Krauss is another.


"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
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Reply #21 posted 10/21/13 7:22am

TD3

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Timmy84 said:

Disco (D. Summer) and dance pop (Madonna) gets a pass in that Hall. Whitney was technically from the school of Aretha and the Supremes and they're both in the Hall...don't believe me, examine her career from beginning to end. The results would shock you. lol Only thing Aretha probably had over the Supremes was she could write and play piano and record with actual rockers (Clapton, Duane Allman, Keith Richards, etc.) but that's besides the point.

eek OH, we got jokes, uh. razz lol lol lol

What Ms. Franklin had and has a lot more going on than the Supremes ever had. Those three/four ladies couldn't sale their souls at the cross roads to get what Franklin has. wink lol

That's for starters...

Madonna should have never been in "the Hall" in the first place, this is what makes the concept of a "hall of fame" a F'in joke. No, Ms. Houston doesn't belong in there either. (IMHO)

================================

[Edited 10/21/13 7:39am]

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Reply #22 posted 10/21/13 3:53pm

leecappella

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Cinny said:

bashraka said:

There are plenty of artists in the rock and roll hall of fame whose music and style does not reflect the Jan Wenner definition of "Rock N Roll". I'm not a Whitney Houston fan at all, but if Madonna and Donna Summers are enshrined, why not Houston?

shrug Maybe next year.

The criteria, supposedly, includes the influence and significance of the artists’ contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll. I don't know if Whitney has contributed to rock and roll or helped to perpetuate it, in any way. I can only think of one rock oriented Whitney song and that is Queen Of The Night. I don't know why Madonna is in there. I can't think of one rock song from her, at all. However, I would imagine some rockers have performed some of her songs in the style of rock and roll. Out of Whitney, Madonna, and Donna Summer (no 's') LOL, Donna should have been in there way before she was, but that can be said, understandably, about anyone who is fits the criteria even more so than Donna.

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