Terrence or ''Sanada'' had a good amount of hits in the UK though. 9 top 40 hits with 3 of them being top 10.

aardvark15 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

TTD was an entirely different beast from MJ. TTD was a hardcore musician.. NOT an entertainer.

So, the comparisons people make to him and MJ hell the comparisons HE MAKES about MJ Make no sense.

There voices to me are not that similar... there musical style is honestly pretty different. TTD went from rock, r&B, pop. To alternative rock, soul, metal.

They are not the same at all... i just don't see it.

I've always seen TTD as a guy who listened to the same music Prince did, but took his influences in a whole different direction. D'arby was more influenced by soul and early rock while Prince was more influenced by funk and glam rock. I feel like the two would own a lot of the same records if we were to view their collection.

True! man... it's to bad honestly. TTD if he made more records from the 80's and 90's i can only imagine the scope.

Timmy84 said:

He could've signed with Motown and Motown could've kept up the momentum they had when Rick James ruled it.

Was Motown even that relevant at the time as far as pop radio was concerned? I remember Motown had acts like The Good Girls which had a little pop play, but they were more popular on R&B radio. Lionel Richie (who was their most popular act) was out of commission with voice problems, and none of the singles from Stevie Wonder's Characters hit the Top 10, and only Skeletons hit the Top 40 although the songs were hits on the R&B charts.

[Edited 10/8/13 20:06pm]

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

He could've signed with Motown and Motown could've kept up the momentum they had when Rick James ruled it.

Was Motown even that relevant at the time as far as pop radio was concerned? I remember Motown had acts like The Good Girls which had a little pop play, but they were more popular on R&B radio. Lionel Richie (who was their most popular act) was out of commission with voice problems, and none of the singles from Stevie Wonder's Characters hit the Top 10, and only Skeletons hit the Top 40 although the songs were hits on the R&B charts.

[Edited 10/8/13 20:06pm]

I always wondered that as well! After Stevie int he late 80's... i didn't think they had any more hits.

Gunsnhalen said:

Gunsnhalen said:

MickyDolenz said:

Was Motown even that relevant at the time as far as pop radio was concerned? I remember Motown had acts like The Good Girls which had a little pop play, but they were more popular on R&B radio. Lionel Richie (who was their most popular act) was out of commission with voice problems, and none of the singles from Stevie Wonder's Characters hit the Top 10, and only Skeletons hit the Top 40 although the songs were hits on the R&B charts.

[Edited 10/8/13 20:06pm]

I always wondered that as well! After Stevie int he late 80's... i didn't think they had any more hits.

In the late 1980's, they were trying to push El DeBarge, but other than Who's Johnny? I don't think he caught on as far as pop radio was concerned. In the early 1990's, Johnny Gill had brief success on the pop Top 40, and then there was Boyz II Men. I think Lionel Richie's comeback new songs that were on the Back To Front compilation were kinda popular, maybe more on the Adult Contemporary format. I believe that was the last album Lionel released on Motown. Other than that, a lot of their other stuff might have been new jack swing like Today. New Jack acts in general didn't get a lot of pop airplay, but some did like Bobby Brown who wasn't on Motown.

[Edited 10/8/13 20:40pm]

Gunsnhalen said:

Terrence or ''Sanada'' had a good amount of hits in the UK though. 9 top 40 hits with 3 of them being top 10.

Yeah he was extremely popular in England.

MickyDolenz said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I always wondered that as well! After Stevie int he late 80's... i didn't think they had any more hits.

In the late 1980's, they were trying to push El DeBarge, but other than Who's Johnny? I don't think he caught on as far as pop radio was concerned. In the early 1990's, Johnny Gill had brief success on the pop Top 40, and then there was Boyz II Men. I think Lionel Richie's comeback new songs that were on the Back To Front compilation were kinda popular, maybe more on the Adult Contemporary format. I believe that was the last album Lionel released on Motown. Other than that, a lot of their other stuff might have been new jack swing like Today. New Jack acts in general didn't get a lot of pop airplay, but some did like Bobby Brown who wasn't on Motown.

[Edited 10/8/13 20:40pm]

After Rick James left in 1986, Motown fell apart quicker than they expected.

Is Motown defunct now as far as new music? or is it under another name?

JoeBala said:

Is Motown defunct now as far as new music? or is it under another name?

It's still there...barely.

MickyDolenz said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I always wondered that as well! After Stevie int he late 80's... i didn't think they had any more hits.

In the late 1980's, they were trying to push El DeBarge, but other than Who's Johnny? I don't think he caught on as far as pop radio was concerned. In the early 1990's, Johnny Gill had brief success on the pop Top 40, and then there was Boyz II Men. I think Lionel Richie's comeback new songs that were on the Back To Front compilation were kinda popular, maybe more on the Adult Contemporary format. I believe that was the last album Lionel released on Motown. Other than that, a lot of their other stuff might have been new jack swing like Today. New Jack acts in general didn't get a lot of pop airplay, but some did like Bobby Brown who wasn't on Motown.

[Edited 10/8/13 20:40pm]

i think Kem is a Motown artist and he's established himself well in the Urban A/C market

What he said about Sony and Neither Fish... and promotion and MJ might be true. But I know I bought the album, and while I liked it, I don't think it really had any great singles on it. It was a lot weirder than Hardline. I felt he was inspired by Prince, but Prince had 6 albums before Around the World, and even that album had Rasberry Beret, Paisley Park, Pop life--great simple pop songs. Terence was still just starting out, and he is smart enough to know about the perils of the sophomore album.

I was just reading the thread about "blaming your parents" and it seems Sananda still wants to blame his musical parents for their mistakes, rather than acknowledge that he himself is a pretentious (albeit talented) mofo and the general public is just not going to get him.

NDRU said:

What he said about Sony and Neither Fish... and promotion and MJ might be true. But I know I bought the album, and while I liked it, I don't think it really had any great singles on it. It was a lot weirder than Hardline. I felt he was inspired by Prince, but Prince had 6 albums before Around the World, and even that album had Rasberry Beret, Paisley Park, Pop life--great simple pop songs. Terence was still just starting out, and he is smart enough to know about the perils of the sophomore album.

I was just reading the thread about "blaming your parents" and it seems Sananda still wants to blame his musical parents for their mistakes, rather than acknowledge that he himself is a pretentious (albeit talented) mofo and the general public is just not going to get him.

I agree that NFNF was not the right album for mainstream success, but he has all my respect for making an album like this one after the first one. And Symphony or Damn had singles that would have deserved way more success like somebody else here already mentioned.

Serious said:

NDRU said:

What he said about Sony and Neither Fish... and promotion and MJ might be true. But I know I bought the album, and while I liked it, I don't think it really had any great singles on it. It was a lot weirder than Hardline. I felt he was inspired by Prince, but Prince had 6 albums before Around the World, and even that album had Rasberry Beret, Paisley Park, Pop life--great simple pop songs. Terence was still just starting out, and he is smart enough to know about the perils of the sophomore album.

I was just reading the thread about "blaming your parents" and it seems Sananda still wants to blame his musical parents for their mistakes, rather than acknowledge that he himself is a pretentious (albeit talented) mofo and the general public is just not going to get him.

I agree that NFNF was not the right album for mainstream success, but he has all my respect for making an album like this one after the first one. And Symphony or Damn had singles that would have deserved way more success like somebody else here already mentioned.

Yes, Symphony or Damn had some great tracks! I also liked NFNF quite a bit, I just wouldn't expect it to be a big hit.

NFNF definitely seemed like his attempt at something like ATWIAD, with its whole artsy, 'psychedelic' vibe -- "weird for the sake of weird!", as Moe the bartender once defined postmodernism. I do think a canny, committed label could've promoted a few well-chosen singles, like Warners did with Prince in '85, though. I'll Be Alright or Attracted To You are easily as radio-friendly as the still-quite-weird-sounding Paisley Park and Pop Life to my ears. That said, it's true that it was never going to blow up the charts like his first album. (Some of it is the sound of a man disappearing up his own arsehole, it has to be said.)

I agree Symphony or Damn could've been much bigger, though. Don't know what went wrong there. Maybe his habit of broadcasting live from a space station orbiting his own ego in interviews. Or the fact that the way Black music appeared in the mainstream was changing (it was the era of Snoop Dogg, Dr Dre, and that whole distinctively 90s style of R&B were beginning to sell in huge numbers) and he was part of the 'old guard' of 80s-style Prince/MJ-type artists. Who knows? Prince seemed to struggle to find a niche, at that time, too.

NDRU said:

Serious said:

I agree that NFNF was not the right album for mainstream success, but he has all my respect for making an album like this one after the first one. And Symphony or Damn had singles that would have deserved way more success like somebody else here already mentioned.

Yes, Symphony or Damn had some great tracks! I also liked NFNF quite a bit, I just wouldn't expect it to be a big hit.

Agree with both!

Timmy84 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Terrence or ''Sanada'' had a good amount of hits in the UK though. 9 top 40 hits with 3 of them being top 10.

Yeah he was extremely popular in England.

He was, but he seemed to get on the wrong side of the press here around the time of his second album, though - with all the overblown statements about it being better than Sgt Pepper, etc. By the time he was promoting his third record, that was part of the narrative of his career that even sympathetic journalists used to recount; though, even then, he seem to double down on the artsiness (for reasons known only to himself)! I was just looking to find the interview with Q Magazine he did back in '93, as it's indicative of the promotion for that album and why he was doomed to get side-eyed by a lot of people. (It was, as I recall, the lowest-selling issue of the magazine - with its largely male, 'serious muso-type' readership - up to that point!)
http://www.sanandamaitrey...azine.html

[Edited 10/9/13 17:04pm]

Timmy84 said:

JoeBala said:

Is Motown defunct now as far as new music? or is it under another name?

It's still there...barely.

I think Queen Latifah is on Motown today, but at this point, she's probably more known as an actress than for music. I mostly hear Kem played on the Quiet Storm show.

babynoz said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Believe you me, I understood every word he was saying. I was wondering what did he mean about the FBI and CIA watching him and MJ. If you notice in post #3, that was the only statement I put emphasis on. He also stated that MJ ruined his career? Why when folks are dead, and can't defend themselves, then they start talking out of their..., well you know

There's documented information of intel agencies having dossiers on various celebs but for him to count himself amongst them is

Same with the MJ story. He seems to be interjecting himself into things that had nothing to do with him for some strange reason.

Like you said, his pretense makes him sound "deep"

deebee said:

NFNF definitely seemed like his attempt at something like ATWIAD, with its whole artsy, 'psychedelic' vibe -- "weird for the sake of weird!", as Moe the bartender once defined postmodernism. I do think a canny, committed label could've promoted a few well-chosen singles, like Warners did with Prince in '85, though. I'll Be Alright or Attracted To You are easily as radio-friendly as the still-quite-weird-sounding Paisley Park and Pop Life to my ears. That said, it's true that it was never going to blow up the charts like his first album. (Some of it is the sound of a man disappearing up his own arsehole, it has to be said.)

I agree Symphony or Damn could've been much bigger, though. Don't know what went wrong there. Maybe his habit of broadcasting live from a space station orbiting his own ego in interviews. Or the fact that the way Black music appeared in the mainstream was changing (it was the era of Snoop Dogg, Dr Dre, and that whole distinctively 90s style of R&B were beginning to sell in huge numbers) and he was part of the 'old guard' of 80s-style Prince/MJ-type artists. Who knows? Prince seemed to struggle to find a niche, at that time, too.

To Love Someone Deeply, Is To Love Someone Softly, was hit material too. But, when it was released as a single, Sony didn't get behind it. Which is a damn shame.

silkman said:

To Love Someone Deeply, Is To Love Someone Softly, was hit material too. But, when it was released as a single, Sony didn't get behind it. Which is a damn shame.

That might be my favorite song along with I'll Be Alright.

He's spoken about the MJ thing many times now, but he never gets specific. He makes unsubstantiated allegations and the interviewers are too timid to press him on it. We know that Michael was a very manipulative individual. The boss at CBS for most of the 80s was Walter Yetnikoff and his autobiography had numerous anecdotes showing how crafty MJ was. Anyone who still thinks he was a sweet and innocent manchild truly needs their head examined. However, Sananda needs to actually back up these allegations with some specifics if I'm gonna take it seriously.

[Edited 10/10/13 14:31pm]

silkman said:

deebee said:

NFNF definitely seemed like his attempt at something like ATWIAD, with its whole artsy, 'psychedelic' vibe -- "weird for the sake of weird!", as Moe the bartender once defined postmodernism. I do think a canny, committed label could've promoted a few well-chosen singles, like Warners did with Prince in '85, though. I'll Be Alright or Attracted To You are easily as radio-friendly as the still-quite-weird-sounding Paisley Park and Pop Life to my ears. That said, it's true that it was never going to blow up the charts like his first album. (Some of it is the sound of a man disappearing up his own arsehole, it has to be said.)

I agree Symphony or Damn could've been much bigger, though. Don't know what went wrong there. Maybe his habit of broadcasting live from a space station orbiting his own ego in interviews. Or the fact that the way Black music appeared in the mainstream was changing (it was the era of Snoop Dogg, Dr Dre, and that whole distinctively 90s style of R&B were beginning to sell in huge numbers) and he was part of the 'old guard' of 80s-style Prince/MJ-type artists. Who knows? Prince seemed to struggle to find a niche, at that time, too.

To Love Someone Deeply, Is To Love Someone Softly, was hit material too. But, when it was released as a single, Sony didn't get behind it. Which is a damn shame.

Yes, that's a great song. One of his very best, I think.

Sananda New Audio Interview: http://www.tomrhodes.net/?page_id=453

NDRU said:

JoeBala said:

Sananda New Audio Interview: http://www.tomrhodes.net/?page_id=453

Check it out it's a good interview. The interviewer plays a couple songs from the new CD.

midnightmover said:

He's spoken about the MJ thing many times now, but he never gets specific. He makes unsubstantiated allegations and the interviewers are too timid to press him on it. We know that Michael was a very manipulative individual. The boss at CBS for most of the 80s was Walter Yetnikoff and his autobiography had numerous anecdotes showing how crafty MJ was. Anyone who still thinks he was a sweet and innocent manchild truly needs their head examined. However, Sananda needs to actually back up these allegations with some specifics if I'm gonna take it seriously.

[Edited 10/10/13 14:31pm]

Interesting, what anecdotes were mentioned? What made TTD so certain that MJ ruined his career? Did MJ ruin other people's careers as well?

SeventeenDayze said:

midnightmover said:

He's spoken about the MJ thing many times now, but he never gets specific. He makes unsubstantiated allegations and the interviewers are too timid to press him on it. We know that Michael was a very manipulative individual. The boss at CBS for most of the 80s was Walter Yetnikoff and his autobiography had numerous anecdotes showing how crafty MJ was. Anyone who still thinks he was a sweet and innocent manchild truly needs their head examined. However, Sananda needs to actually back up these allegations with some specifics if I'm gonna take it seriously.

[Edited 10/10/13 14:31pm]

Interesting, what anecdotes were mentioned? What made TTD so certain that MJ ruined his career? Did MJ ruin other people's careers as well?

The anecdotes I remember showed him maneouvring against his producer Quincy Jones and his brother Jermaine. The Quincy one was particularly disgraceful. According to Yetnikoff MJ tried to get Quincy removed from the nominations for Producer of the Year at the Grammys and have the honour go to himself (MJ) alone. He phoned Yetnikoff thinking he could get that done for him. This was at the height of Thriller and MJ was worried that people would think Quincy had done all the work.

The Jermaine one was less sabotage than mischief, but it revealed an obvious truth about MJ. He liked to get other people to do his dirty work and then plead helplessness. He'd recorded a duet with Jermaine that would probably have been a number one if it had been a single. MJ personally stopped it being released as a single because he didn't want to give Jermaine that much of a boost. Jermaine and the public were told that this was because MJ's record company blocked it, but this was a lie. Yetnikoff is clear; both CBS and Arista (Jermaine's label) expected it to be a single. Michael stepped in to make sure it wasn't.

There were quite a few anecdotes of that nature in the extracts I read. I recall another one concerning David Geffen. In that case MJ did it so Geffen would never know it was Michael who was blocking him. Geffen would think it was that bastard Yetnikoff, not the sweet and innocent MJ, lol. Apparently Yetnikoff didn't mind people thinking he was an asshole as long as it kept MJ happy. When CBS was bought out by Sony in the late 80s Yetnikoff literally flew out to Neverland to make sure it was okay with Michael. MJ had serious power, but liked to portray himself as completely helpless.

TTD's allegations certainly fit that pattern, so there may well be some truth in it. But I'd need to hear more specifics on it to really form an opinion. btw, Bob Jones (who worked for MJ for almost 20 years) also revealed an awful lot about the devious side of his employer. Unfortunately the internet and the media are so awash with MJ apologism that much of this info is kept quiet. Check out his anti-semitic rant on youtube. When you hear it you'll scratch your head and wonder why it wasn't a huge news story when it first came to light in 2005. The most damning facts about this man are virtually never reported. What I've said in this post barely qualifies as the tip of an iceberg. It's more like the tip of the tip.

midnightmover said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Interesting, what anecdotes were mentioned? What made TTD so certain that MJ ruined his career? Did MJ ruin other people's careers as well?

The anecdotes I remember showed him maneouvring against his producer Quincy Jones and his brother Jermaine. The Quincy one was particularly disgraceful. According to Yetnikoff MJ tried to get Quincy removed from the nominations for Producer of the Year at the Grammys and have the honour go to himself (MJ) alone. He phoned Yetnikoff thinking he could get that done for him. This was at the height of Thriller and MJ was worried that people would think Quincy had done all the work.

The Jermaine one was less sabotage than mischief, but it revealed an obvious truth about MJ. He liked to get other people to do his dirty work and then plead helplessness. He'd recorded a duet with Jermaine that would probably have been a number one if it had been a single. MJ personally stopped it being released as a single because he didn't want to give Jermaine that much of a boost. Jermaine and the public were told that this was because MJ's record company blocked it, but this was a lie. Yetnikoff is clear; both CBS and Arista (Jermaine's label) expected it to be a single. Michael stepped in to make sure it wasn't.

There were quite a few anecdotes of that nature in the extracts I read. I recall another one concerning David Geffen. In that case MJ did it so Geffen would never know it was Michael who was blocking him. Geffen would think it was that bastard Yetnikoff, not the sweet and innocent MJ, lol. Apparently Yetnikoff didn't mind people thinking he was an asshole as long as it kept MJ happy. When CBS was bought out by Sony in the late 80s Yetnikoff literally flew out to Neverland to make sure it was okay with Michael. MJ had serious power, but liked to portray himself as completely helpless.

TTD's allegations certainly fit that pattern, so there may well be some truth in it. But I'd need to hear more specifics on it to really form an opinion. btw, Bob Jones (who worked for MJ for almost 20 years) also revealed an awful lot about the devious side of his employer. Unfortunately the internet and the media are so awash with MJ apologism that much of this info is kept quiet. Check out his anti-semitic rant on youtube. When you hear it you'll scratch your head and wonder why it wasn't a huge news story when it first came to light in 2005. The most damning facts about this man are virtually never reported. What I've said in this post barely qualifies as the tip of an iceberg. It's more like the tip of the tip.

Wow, SMH! I didn't know he was THAT bad, LOL. So, I guess TTD's allegations probably have some truth to it. I guess it speaks volumes to just how cutthroat the music business really is. One thing that doesn't make sense to me is that TTD was never (from what I remember) promoted as the 'next' Michael, not the way someone like say El Debarge was. I thought I heard a while back that MJ tried to sabtoage El Debarge's career as well. I have no idea if that's true or not.

Maybe TTD's career (specifically his fame in the US) exemplifies the ugly side of the music business. He had talent but it was basically useless because on the business side of things, he didn't really have a solid leg to stand on. I don't know what would have made MJ feel so threatened by TTD in the first place since he was well established in his career and had stadiums filled for two years straight on the Bad tour......

SeventeenDayze said:

midnightmover said:

The anecdotes I remember showed him maneouvring against his producer Quincy Jones and his brother Jermaine. The Quincy one was particularly disgraceful. According to Yetnikoff MJ tried to get Quincy removed from the nominations for Producer of the Year at the Grammys and have the honour go to himself (MJ) alone. He phoned Yetnikoff thinking he could get that done for him. This was at the height of Thriller and MJ was worried that people would think Quincy had done all the work.

The Jermaine one was less sabotage than mischief, but it revealed an obvious truth about MJ. He liked to get other people to do his dirty work and then plead helplessness. He'd recorded a duet with Jermaine that would probably have been a number one if it had been a single. MJ personally stopped it being released as a single because he didn't want to give Jermaine that much of a boost. Jermaine and the public were told that this was because MJ's record company blocked it, but this was a lie. Yetnikoff is clear; both CBS and Arista (Jermaine's label) expected it to be a single. Michael stepped in to make sure it wasn't.

There were quite a few anecdotes of that nature in the extracts I read. I recall another one concerning David Geffen. In that case MJ did it so Geffen would never know it was Michael who was blocking him. Geffen would think it was that bastard Yetnikoff, not the sweet and innocent MJ, lol. Apparently Yetnikoff didn't mind people thinking he was an asshole as long as it kept MJ happy. When CBS was bought out by Sony in the late 80s Yetnikoff literally flew out to Neverland to make sure it was okay with Michael. MJ had serious power, but liked to portray himself as completely helpless.

TTD's allegations certainly fit that pattern, so there may well be some truth in it. But I'd need to hear more specifics on it to really form an opinion. btw, Bob Jones (who worked for MJ for almost 20 years) also revealed an awful lot about the devious side of his employer. Unfortunately the internet and the media are so awash with MJ apologism that much of this info is kept quiet. Check out his anti-semitic rant on youtube. When you hear it you'll scratch your head and wonder why it wasn't a huge news story when it first came to light in 2005. The most damning facts about this man are virtually never reported. What I've said in this post barely qualifies as the tip of an iceberg. It's more like the tip of the tip.

Wow, SMH! I didn't know he was THAT bad, LOL. So, I guess TTD's allegations probably have some truth to it. I guess it speaks volumes to just how cutthroat the music business really is. One thing that doesn't make sense to me is that TTD was never (from what I remember) promoted as the 'next' Michael, not the way someone like say El Debarge was. I thought I heard a while back that MJ tried to sabtoage El Debarge's career as well. I have no idea if that's true or not.

Maybe TTD's career (specifically his fame in the US) exemplifies the ugly side of the music business. He had talent but it was basically useless because on the business side of things, he didn't really have a solid leg to stand on. I don't know what would have made MJ feel so threatened by TTD in the first place since he was well established in his career and had stadiums filled for two years straight on the Bad tour......

I think Terence's big problem was that he came out as a fairly straightforward (but brilliant) pop/soul artist, but almost completely changed genre afterwards. His music was never so easy to categorize again. It also became "whiter" and more retro which I think confused people. The business stuff may have been a factor too, but like I said I'd need to hear more specifics to really form a view.

As for MJ, he was always competitive. Even in his final months preparing for his London shows, the tour directors revealed he still felt an intense rivalry with Prince. You'd have thought he would've forgotten all that by then, but no; he even asked for them to book 31 shows at first so it would be exactly 10 more shows than the 21 Prince did at the same venue. It may also have been a joke to himself. Prince's album at the time was called 3121.

[Edited 10/14/13 17:34pm]