Musicslave said:

Did Robin give credit to Marvin Gaye for his "Love After War" and another song that samples or interpolates from Marvin's "Trouble Man" in his album credits?

-

I find this quote pretty damaging: "During an interview with GQ magazine in May about his career and the making of “Blurred Lines,” Thicke said, “one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gaye’s ‘Got to Give It Up.’ I was like, ‘Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove.’ Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it. The whole thing was done in a couple hours.”

-

At one point does interpolation becomes a violation? What's the measuring stick? Anybody familiar with past legal precedent in this regards?

Making a song that is reminiscent of another song is not copyright infringement.If that was the case,there would be numerous lawsuits filed against half of the songs from this era.A few years ago,everyone was saying that Lady Gaga's "Born This Way" borrowed heavily from Madonns's "Express Yourself".

...

[Edited 8/23/13 14:17pm]

phunkdaddy said:

Scorp said:

you're right.....this was an excellent track

and this body of music was discovered after years of living in obscurity and Eric Sermon immediately acknowledged the source of which it came from and produced a gem

Say that again.

amen

this body of music was discovered after years of living in obscurity and Eric Sermon immediately acknowledged the source of which it came from and produced a gem

Musicslave said:

Did Robin give credit to Marvin Gaye for his "Love After War" and another song that samples or interpolates from Marvin's "Trouble Man" in his album credits?

-

I find this quote pretty damaging: "During an interview with GQ magazine in May about his career and the making of “Blurred Lines,” Thicke said, “one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gaye’s ‘Got to Give It Up.’ I was like, ‘Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove.’ Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it. The whole thing was done in a couple hours.”

-

At one point does interpolation becomes a violation? What's the measuring stick? Anybody familiar with past legal precedent in this regards?

[Edited 8/23/13 13:40pm]

daaaaaaaang, he jacked that jam too?

I'm about to pull it up on youtube now

[Edited 8/23/13 14:20pm]

Making a song that is reminiscent of another song is not copyright infringement.If that was the case,there would be numerous lawsuits filed against half of the songs from this era.A few years ago,everyone was saying that Lady Gaga's "Born This Way" borrowed heavily from Madonns's "Express Yourself".

Here are good examples of using Marvin's sound without directly copying it. I think the problem is the GTGIU rhythm track is so distinctive that it becomes impossible to bury it with a different melody. It's very similar Britney Spears song I'm a Slave 4 U which took the rhythm track from Vanity 6's Nasty Girls.

[Edited 8/23/13 14:48pm]

What I want to know is what happens if this song gets Grammy nommed. Will the Gaye family try to bust up on the stage or what? Will the Grammys be forced to arbitrate at all?

SoulAlive said:

Billboard asked Ron Sadoff, a professor at New York University’s Steinhardt School and Director of Programs in Scoring for Film and Multimedia and Songwriting at Steinhardt’s Department of Music and Performing Arts Professions, for his opinion.

“Thicke’s ‘Blurred Lines’ may have been inspired by Marvin Gaye’s ‘Got to Give It Up,’ but the songs’ respective ‘touch and feel,’ as well as their use of structural musical materials, are common to many popular songs,” Sadoff said. “From a musicological perspective, the songs share even less similarities in terms of their use of structural materials such as melody and harmony. ‘Blurred Lines’ is composed squarely within the major mode, while ‘Got To Give It Up’ revolves around the blues scale. In this key area of melodic content, there doesn’t appear to be evidence that would suggest plagiarism on the part of Robin Thicke.”

I really don't think that the Gaye family would have an easy time proving that Robin plagiarized the Marvin Gaye track.The song was obviously inspired by GTGIU,but that's where it ends.

Exactly.

Only a biased individual/an individual who has no musical ear, training, or thought whatsoever/an individual who knows nothing about intellectual property law/any combination of the previous would believe that a claim on "Blurred Lines" would stand up in court for longer than an hour. A tribute, a send-up, a takeoff, a parody - all of these qualify as fair use and this song seems to be a mix of the former three. Smart of them to stop foolishness before it begins.

Scorp said:

Musicslave said:

Did Robin give credit to Marvin Gaye for his "Love After War" and another song that samples or interpolates from Marvin's "Trouble Man" in his album credits?

-

I find this quote pretty damaging: "During an interview with GQ magazine in May about his career and the making of “Blurred Lines,” Thicke said, “one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gaye’s ‘Got to Give It Up.’ I was like, ‘Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove.’ Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it. The whole thing was done in a couple hours.”

-

At one point does interpolation becomes a violation? What's the measuring stick? Anybody familiar with past legal precedent in this regards?

[Edited 8/23/13 13:40pm]

daaaaaaaang, he jacked that jam too?

I'm about to pull it up on youtube now

[Edited 8/23/13 14:20pm]

-

-

-

-

lrn36 said:

Here are good examples of using Marvin's sound without directly copying it.

Now that you say that, I do get kind of a "Mercy Mercy Me" vibe off of "Every Kinda People", but the steel drum threw me off making that connection before!

I think Pharrell changes melodies up but often uses the same instrument sounds as his inspirations, so the source is more identifiable.

Musicslave said:

Scorp said:

daaaaaaaang, he jacked that jam too?

I'm about to pull it up on youtube now

[Edited 8/23/13 14:20pm]

-

-

-

-

wooooooooooooooooo.........here shaking my head......abominable......

people, can we just all accept the fact this individual is pulling off heist after heist....

goodness gracious

I notice something......individual artists of the day tend to have a favorite artist of authenticity to constantly sample from...

Blurred Lines’ is composed squarely within the major mode, while ‘Got To Give It Up’ revolves around the blues scale.

OK, so it's been a while since my music theory classes, but what in the actual fuck are they trying to say here? First, a blues scale can be major or minor. But if they are actually talking about a major mode, well, first I wish they'd specified which one. But more importantly -- it's not at all difficult to transpose something from one mode to another. (And I would bet there's software nowadays that can do it for you -- even back when I was in school, there was already software that could transpose keys.) I think I was about 9 when I started changing all my piano practice songs from major to minor just to be a cynical little asshole, and changing modes really isn't all that different -- you just have to know what's raised or lowered. It's like they're patting themselves on the back for being able to accomplish a really basic musical concept. Um, congratulations, I guess?!?

[Edited 8/24/13 10:11am]

Musicslave said:

Did Robin give credit to Marvin Gaye for his "Love After War" and another song that samples or interpolates from Marvin's "Trouble Man" in his album credits?

I looked it up for you: "Million Dolla Baby" does credit Marvin because it actually uses music from "Trouble Man." I'm not sure what you're claiming "Love After War" uses; you didn't specify.

Musicslave said:

I find this quote pretty damaging: "During an interview with GQ magazine in May about his career and the making of “Blurred Lines,” Thicke said, “one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gaye’s ‘Got to Give It Up.’ I was like, ‘Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove.’ Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it. The whole thing was done in a couple hours.”

-

At one point does interpolation becomes a violation? What's the measuring stick? Anybody familiar with past legal precedent in this regards?

Yeah, and that's another thing that gets me. The lawsuit says there are "no similarities" between the two, but then you have this quote. So, Thicke meant he wanted to make something like that but that has no similarities? If I didn't know any better, I'd think he just started learning English this month.

Arbwyth said:

Musicslave said:

I find this quote pretty damaging: "During an interview with GQ magazine in May about his career and the making of “Blurred Lines,” Thicke said, “one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gaye’s ‘Got to Give It Up.’ I was like, ‘Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove.’ Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it. The whole thing was done in a couple hours.”

-

At one point does interpolation becomes a violation? What's the measuring stick? Anybody familiar with past legal precedent in this regards?

Yeah, and that's another thing that gets me. The lawsuit says there are "no similarities" between the two, but then you have this quote. So, Thicke meant he wanted to make something like that but that has no similarities? If I didn't know any better, I'd think he just started learning English this month.

Well, the suit claims there are "no similarities" between the songs "other than commonplace music elements."

And the plot thickens...

http://music.msn.com/musi...ews=824493

Report: Marvin Gaye's family turn down Robin Thicke settlement

Aug. 24, 2013, 12:17 PM EST

WENN

Marvin Gaye's family has turned down a six-figure settlement from Robin Thicke as he attempts to end an ongoing battle over similarities between his summer hit "Blurred Lines" and soul classic "Got To Give It Up," according to a report.

Members of the late soul legend's family are currently embroiled in a lawsuit with the R&B hitmaker over his tune, claiming Thicke plagiarized "Got To Give it Up," while Thicke maintains "Blurred Lines" does not infringe on Gaye's song.

****

Thicke reportedly offered up the settlement to preempt a copyright infringement lawsuit, but the family rejected it, according to Billboard.com.

****

Earlier this month, Thicke, along with the song's co-writers Pharrell Williams and Clifford Harris, Jr., aka T.I., filed a lawsuit in Los Angeles requesting a ruling that "Blurred Lines" does not infringe on "Got To Give It Up."

****

The lawsuit reads, "Defendants continue to insist that plaintiffs' massively successful composition, Blurred Lines, copies 'their' compositions."

Arbwyth said:

Blurred Lines’ is composed squarely within the major mode, while ‘Got To Give It Up’ revolves around the blues scale.

OK, so it's been a while since my music theory classes, but what in the actual fuck are they trying to say here? First, a blues scale can be major or minor. But if they are actually talking about a major mode, well, first I wish they'd specified which one. But more importantly -- it's not at all difficult to transpose something from one mode to another. (And I would bet there's software nowadays that can do it for you -- even back when I was in school, there was already software that could transpose keys.) I think I was about 9 when I started changing all my piano practice songs from major to minor just to be a cynical little asshole, and changing modes really isn't all that different -- you just have to know what's raised or lowered. It's like they're patting themselves on the back for being able to accomplish a really basic musical concept. Um, congratulations, I guess?!?

[Edited 8/24/13 10:11am]

It's really neither, as far as I know.

Maybe what he means is that Blurred Lines has a melody that's constructed of notes that do not deviate from the basic notes associated with major keys / scales / modes, whereas the melody of Got To Give Up apparently does (or is based on those notes of the blues scale that "fit" the key the song is in).

But, yeah, I too find the reference to "modes" often too vague to say much anything.

Can someone please answer my earlier question? I feel like it's fallen on deaf ears.

What I want to know is what happens if this song gets Grammy nommed. Will the Gaye family try to bust up on the stage or what? Will the Grammys be forced to arbitrate at all?

scriptgirl said:

Can someone please answer my earlier question? I feel like it's fallen on deaf ears.

What I want to know is what happens if this song gets Grammy nommed. Will the Gaye family try to bust up on the stage or what? Will the Grammys be forced to arbitrate at all?

It did fall on deaf ears. No one here is in the Gaye family - that I know of - so how could anyone here answer that?

scriptgirl said:

Can someone please answer my earlier question? I feel like it's fallen on deaf ears.

Will the Gaye family try to bust up on the stage or what?

It's the Grammys, not the Source awards. The Grammys have mucho security detail, something like that can't happen.

ODB busted onstage during the Grammys. Speaking of which, would the grammys ever be called upon to weigh in on this?

scriptgirl said:

ODB busted onstage during the Grammys. Speaking of which, would the grammys ever be called upon to weigh in on this?

Why would the Gaye family be invited to the Grammys? Do they have a record out?

MickyDolenz said:

scriptgirl said:

ODB busted onstage during the Grammys. Speaking of which, would the grammys ever be called upon to weigh in on this?

Why would the Gaye family be invited to the Grammys? Do they have a record out?

MickyDolenz said:

scriptgirl said:

Can someone please answer my earlier question? I feel like it's fallen on deaf ears.

It's the Grammys, not the Source awards. The Grammys have mucho security detail, something like that can't happen.

MickyDolenz said:

scriptgirl said:

ODB busted onstage during the Grammys. Speaking of which, would the grammys ever be called upon to weigh in on this?

Why would the Gaye family be invited to the Grammys? Do they have a record out?

Yes!

speaking of Robin Thicke....I just saw his new video "Give It 2 U" with Kendrick LaMar and 2Chains.

I was soooo hoping that "Oooh La La" would be his next single That's the best song on the album!

Scorp said:

Musicslave said:

-

-

-

-

wooooooooooooooooo.........here shaking my head......abominable......

people, can we just all accept the fact this individual is pulling off heist after heist....

goodness gracious

I notice something......individual artists of the day tend to have a favorite artist of authenticity to constantly sample from...

I do like Love and War and I always felt it was Marvin like. Now the second song is obviously Troubled Man. My first time hearing it and it is nice. I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as he give Marvin credit for it. I really don't care for Blurred Lines and now that he's pulled this stunt with the lawsuit I will no longer support his music unless this nonsense is resolved in the proper manner.

novabrkr said:

Arbwyth said:

OK, so it's been a while since my music theory classes, but what in the actual fuck are they trying to say here? First, a blues scale can be major or minor. But if they are actually talking about a major mode, well, first I wish they'd specified which one. But more importantly -- it's not at all difficult to transpose something from one mode to another. (And I would bet there's software nowadays that can do it for you -- even back when I was in school, there was already software that could transpose keys.) I think I was about 9 when I started changing all my piano practice songs from major to minor just to be a cynical little asshole, and changing modes really isn't all that different -- you just have to know what's raised or lowered. It's like they're patting themselves on the back for being able to accomplish a really basic musical concept. Um, congratulations, I guess?!?

[Edited 8/24/13 10:11am]

It's really neither, as far as I know.

Maybe what he means is that Blurred Lines has a melody that's constructed of notes that do not deviate from the basic notes associated with major keys / scales / modes, whereas the melody of Got To Give Up apparently does (or is based on those notes of the blues scale that "fit" the key the song is in).

But, yeah, I too find the reference to "modes" often too vague to say much anything.

Cool, thanks. That's kind of what I was thinking.

Has anyone seen this from jazz musician Nicholas Payton's blog? Interesting stuff.

http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/thicke-and-co-got-to-give-it-up-to-marvin/

https://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2013/08/17/thickes-got-to-give-it-up-pt-2/

On edit: I hadn't read the second part yet when I posted it, but turns out that half isn't about the musical similarities but more the racial politics of this whole thing. So, I guess, read it if that interests you, but don't flame me for it!

[Edited 8/24/13 20:19pm]

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

And the plot thickens...

http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=824493

Report: Marvin Gaye's family turn down Robin Thicke settlement

Aug. 24, 2013, 12:17 PM EST

WENN

Marvin Gaye's family has turned down a six-figure settlement from Robin Thicke as he attempts to end an ongoing battle over similarities between his summer hit "Blurred Lines" and soul classic "Got To Give It Up," according to a report.

Members of the late soul legend's family are currently embroiled in a lawsuit with the R&B hitmaker over his tune, claiming Thicke plagiarized "Got To Give it Up," while Thicke maintains "Blurred Lines" does not infringe on Gaye's song.

****

Thicke reportedly offered up the settlement to preempt a copyright infringement lawsuit, but the family rejected it, according to Billboard.com.

****

Earlier this month, Thicke, along with the song's co-writers Pharrell Williams and Clifford Harris, Jr., aka T.I., filed a lawsuit in Los Angeles requesting a ruling that "Blurred Lines" does not infringe on "Got To Give It Up."

****

The lawsuit reads, "Defendants continue to insist that plaintiffs' massively successful composition, Blurred Lines, copies 'their' compositions."

Yeah, I saw this somewhere, too. I got the idea that part of the problem was that the settlement would be private, and nobody would know about the copyright infringement issue? My guess would be the Gaye family didn't like that idea.

Unrelated to this case, is it the Gaye family or the Gay family? Because isn't their last name actually Gay (only Marvin added the "e")?

AlexdeParis said:

Arbwyth said:

Yeah, and that's another thing that gets me. The lawsuit says there are "no similarities" between the two, but then you have this quote. So, Thicke meant he wanted to make something like that but that has no similarities? If I didn't know any better, I'd think he just started learning English this month.

Well, the suit claims there are "no similarities" between the songs "other than commonplace music elements."

I see. At any rate, this bit from the Payton article pretty much captures my thoughts on that:

"And their whole defense that the song is in tribute to an era or genre, not a specific song, is wack. First off, Gaye’s Got To Give It Up doesn’t really sound like anything else from that era. It contains a certain musical artifact that is uniquely its own—which is why it’s such an iconic sound. The song is an era within itself. Not even Marvin created anything exactly like it again. It’s elements are a cultural interpolation of blues, funk, good disco, cha-cha-cha and other Caribbean elements."

Arbwyth said:

AlexdeParis said:

Well, the suit claims there are "no similarities" between the songs "other than commonplace music elements."

I see. At any rate, this bit from the Payton article pretty much captures my thoughts on that:

"And their whole defense that the song is in tribute to an era or genre, not a specific song, is wack. First off, Gaye’s Got To Give It Up doesn’t really sound like anything else from that era. It contains a certain musical artifact that is uniquely its own—which is why it’s such an iconic sound. The song is an era within itself. Not even Marvin created anything exactly like it again. It’s elements are a cultural interpolation of blues, funk, good disco, cha-cha-cha and other Caribbean elements."

theAudience posted those comments earlier in the thread and we discussed Payton's views when TonyVanDam reposted them. I will say again that I agree with Payton's analysis that the authors did not legally infringe on GTGIU.