Scorp said:

they should stop calling it sampling and just say what it really is

world league hijacking....

There's nothing original. Movies like Star Wars & Kill Bill are taken from other movies. Hollywood remakes foreign movies & shows (ie. Three Men and A Baby, Nikita TV show, Sanford & Son, Three's Company, Ugly Betty), old TV shows (Beverly Hillbillies, Wild Wild West), books (Gatsby, Batman, Iron Man). Star Trek is pretty much a western in space, and Gene Roddenberry said so himself. Right now there's going to be a new TV remake of the old Raymond Burr series Ironside with Blair Underwood. There's many movies, TV shows, cartoons, etc. that uses A Christmas Carol/Scrooge as a plot and also the 1954 Japanese movie Seven Samurai. Walt Disney made movies based on old stories like Snow White. Soap Operas use the same plots over and over. Why should music be any different? There's only 7 notes.

[Edited 8/21/13 9:04am]

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

they should stop calling it sampling and just say what it really is

world league hijacking....

There's nothing original. Movies like Star Wars & Kill Bill are taken from other movies. Hollywood remakes foreign movies & shows (ie. Three Men and A Baby, Nikita TV show, Sanford & Son, Three's Company, Ugly Betty), old TV shows (Beverly Hillbillies, Wild Wild West), books (Gatsby, Batman, Iron Man). Star Trek is pretty much a western in space, and Gene Roddenberry said so himself. Right now there's going to be a new TV remake of the old Raymond Burr series Ironside with Blair Underwood. There's many movies, TV shows, cartoons, etc. that uses A Christmas Carol/Scrooge as a plot and also the 1954 Japanese movie Seven Samurai. Walt Disney made movies based on old stories like Snow White. Soap Operas use the same plots over and over. Why should music be any different? There's only 7 notes.

[Edited 8/21/13 9:04am]

And most artist aren't as gifted as Prince, to be able to create 1000's of songs that are nothing alike from scratch....He is one of kind at that...

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

MickyDolenz said:

There's nothing original. Movies like Star Wars & Kill Bill are taken from other movies. Hollywood remakes foreign movies & shows (ie. Three Men and A Baby, Nikita TV show, Sanford & Son, Three's Company, Ugly Betty), old TV shows (Beverly Hillbillies, Wild Wild West), books (Gatsby, Batman, Iron Man). Star Trek is pretty much a western in space, and Gene Roddenberry said so himself. Right now there's going to be a new TV remake of the old Raymond Burr series Ironside with Blair Underwood. There's many movies, TV shows, cartoons, etc. that uses A Christmas Carol/Scrooge as a plot and also the 1954 Japanese movie Seven Samurai. Walt Disney made movies based on old stories like Snow White. Soap Operas use the same plots over and over. Why should music be any different? There's only 7 notes.

[Edited 8/21/13 9:04am]

And most artist aren't as gifted as Prince, to be able to create 1000's of songs that are nothing alike from scratch....He is one of kind at that...

He's not original either, not his music or his look. Prince has also sampled and has taken credit for things that his band members or others came up with (ie. Partyup, the arrangement on Kiss). It doesn't matter if he made a deal with Morris, Prince still is taking credit for someone else's idea. The record labels also made deals with performers and taken their work too.

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

they should stop calling it sampling and just say what it really is

world league hijacking....

There's nothing original. Movies like Star Wars & Kill Bill are taken from other movies. Hollywood remakes foreign movies & shows (ie. Three Men and A Baby, Nikita TV show, Sanford & Son, Three's Company, Ugly Betty), old TV shows (Beverly Hillbillies, Wild Wild West), books (Gatsby, Batman, Iron Man). Star Trek is pretty much a western in space, and Gene Roddenberry said so himself. Right now there's going to be a new TV remake of the old Raymond Burr series Ironside with Blair Underwood. There's many movies, TV shows, cartoons, etc. that uses A Christmas Carol/Scrooge as a plot and also the 1954 Japanese movie Seven Samurai. Walt Disney made movies based on old stories like Snow White. Soap Operas use the same plots over and over. Why should music be any different? There's only 7 notes.

[Edited 8/21/13 9:04am]

.....sampling should be called what it really is......world league hijacking

even if music consisted of only 7 notes, musical acts were still making original music during the 70s up unto the mid 80s...the reason I mention this period of time is because most of the music that is sampled comes from this period

see, I believe it's possible.....

remakes of classic songs are one thing, people recorded remakes during this time and on many occasion, the remake is better than the original version......remakes aren't the problem

it's the lack of any type of initiate to seek to create anything authentic

if people from the 70s up until the mid 80s can accomplish this, why can't the present generation of artists can't?

the problem is that it's too convenient and accessible to "recreate" something that's already been done than to take time and cultivate one's own ability to create something on their own

this is the environment that has been created over the past 26 years

I'm not surprised at all we have reached this point......the well has run dry

in order to cultivate, culture has to carry a strong presence......

the problem is that culture has been totally obliterated and tapped out

when the culture is thriving, the music that's generated, the music that truly defines not only becomes exceptional, but carries lasting impact....

the problem is we have no culture

Scorp said:

.....sampling should be called what it really is......world league hijacking

even if music consisted of only 7 notes, musical acts were still making original music during the 70s up unto the mid 80s...the reason I mention this period of time is because most of the music that is sampled comes from this period

see, I believe it's possible.....

MickyDolenz said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

And most artist aren't as gifted as Prince, to be able to create 1000's of songs that are nothing alike from scratch....He is one of kind at that...

He's not original either, not his music or his look. Prince has also sampled and has taken credit for things that his band members or others came up with (ie. Partyup, the arrangement on Kiss). It doesn't matter if he made a deal with Morris, Prince still is taking credit for someone else's idea. The record labels also made deals with performers and taken their work too.

--------- Morris gave Prince the song in exchange for a recording contract. Morris has no ownership or claim on that song. Are you really comparing that sitution to Robin Thicke.

A court is going to decide and someone other than Robin is going to get paid off of that song based on the notes and courts. Not the opinion of orgers.

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

.....sampling should be called what it really is......world league hijacking

even if music consisted of only 7 notes, musical acts were still making original music during the 70s up unto the mid 80s...the reason I mention this period of time is because most of the music that is sampled comes from this period

see, I believe it's possible.....

wow, what a pic

purple1968 said:

MickyDolenz said:

He's not original either, not his music or his look. Prince has also sampled and has taken credit for things that his band members or others came up with (ie. Partyup, the arrangement on Kiss). It doesn't matter if he made a deal with Morris, Prince still is taking credit for someone else's idea. The record labels also made deals with performers and taken their work too.

--------- Morris gave Prince the song in exchange for a recording contract. Morris has no ownership or claim on that song. Are you really comparing that sitution to Robin Thicke.

I've haven't said one thing about Robin Thicke in this thread and was not talking about him. I've only heard his song once, and it was the Jimmy Fallon version. I mentioned Paul Simon, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, George Harrison, Sugarhill Gang, & others. That comment was about nothing is original, sampled or not, not about Robin Thicke or his case.

Scorp said:

MickyDolenz said:

wow, what a pic

Well, Led Zeppelin is known for copying music and lyrics from other songs, and claiming they wrote it. There was no sampling machines then. James Brown copied David Bowie's Fame on his song Hot. There's also the many early R&B/soul/rock 'n roll songs that copied gospel songs, and took the Jesus/Lord/God out of them to make them secular. So saying "hijacking" only occured with sampling is not so.

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

wow, what a pic

Well, Led Zeppelin is known for copying music and lyrics from other songs, and claiming they wrote it. There was no sampling machines then. James Brown copied David Bowie's Fame on his song Hot. There's also the many early R&B/soul/rock 'n roll songs that copied gospel songs, and took the Jesus/Lord/God out of them to make them secular. So saying "hijacking" only occured with sampling is not so.

I never said that......

when u got a guy like Kirk Franklin who has sampled over 40 songs in his career, even higher than than considering he sampled certain artists more than once, and then WIN GRAMMYS FOR IT....then this less travelled path is going to lead to a dead end.....

it's not a black thing, it's not a white thing, it's a focus on authenticity or the lack thereof

I believe fresh music is possible, I never lost hope for that.......

if someone could crack thru the door and move beyond the current climate and discover that realm of possibility.....my gawd, that would be one heck of an accomplishment and he or she would be highly appreciated

we just have to believe it

[Edited 8/21/13 10:37am]

The beat is what made this song so popular with people...and the beat we hear clearly mimics that of "Got To Give It Up". Maybe it's not exactly, and I'm sure the people working on this song did what they needed to do to avoid paying for sampling, but the beat is not original. Robin Thicke's music is not original in general, and he rips off the sounds from the late 70s and early 80s. It annoys me he and his team can't come up with their own sounds.

Shard said:

The beat is what made this song so popular with people...and the beat we hear clearly mimics that of "Got To Give It Up". Maybe it's not exactly, and I'm sure the people working on this song did what they needed to do to avoid paying for sampling, but the beat is not original. Robin Thicke's music is not original in general, and he rips off the sounds from the late 70s and early 80s. It annoys me he and his team can't come up with their own sounds.

amen

Scorp said:

MickyDolenz said:

Well, Led Zeppelin is known for copying music and lyrics from other songs, and claiming they wrote it. There was no sampling machines then. James Brown copied David Bowie's Fame on his song Hot. There's also the many early R&B/soul/rock 'n roll songs that copied gospel songs, and took the Jesus/Lord/God out of them to make them secular. So saying "hijacking" only occured with sampling is not so.

I never said that......

when u got a guy like Kirk Franklin who has sampled over 40 songs in his career, even higher than than considering he sampled certain artists more than once, and then WIN GRAMMYS FOR IT....then this less travelled path is going to lead to a dead end.....

it's not a black thing, it's not a white thing, it's a focus on authenticity or the lack thereof

I believe fresh music is possible, I never lost hope for that.......

if someone could crack thru the door and move beyond the current climate and discover that realm of possibility.....my gawd, that would be one heck of an accomplishment and he or she would be highly appreciated

we just have to believe it

You keep talking about sampling. There's little if any sampling in country music, and it's supposed to have the highest ratio of actual CD sales compared to other genres (in the USA).

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

I never said that......

when u got a guy like Kirk Franklin who has sampled over 40 songs in his career, even higher than than considering he sampled certain artists more than once, and then WIN GRAMMYS FOR IT....then this less travelled path is going to lead to a dead end.....

it's not a black thing, it's not a white thing, it's a focus on authenticity or the lack thereof

I believe fresh music is possible, I never lost hope for that.......

if someone could crack thru the door and move beyond the current climate and discover that realm of possibility.....my gawd, that would be one heck of an accomplishment and he or she would be highly appreciated

we just have to believe it

You keep talking about sampling. There's little if any sampling in country music, and it's supposed to have the highest ratio of actual CD sales compared to other genres (in the USA).

exactly....that's my point......there's only one genre that's truly thriving because the music is authentic......

every onther genre keeps running into brick walls due to sampling proliferation that has run its course

Scorp said:

MickyDolenz said:

You keep talking about sampling. There's little if any sampling in country music, and it's supposed to have the highest ratio of actual CD sales compared to other genres (in the USA).

exactly....that's my point......there's only one genre that's truly thriving because the music is authentic......

every onther genre keeps running into brick walls due to sampling proliferation that has run its course

No, it's because there's less downloading for free with country. People who listen to classical, blues, and other traditional genres are also less likely to steal it as they're usually older. If people are getting music for free, of course it's not going to sell. It has nothing to do with sampling itself. The music that uses samples like rap are more likely to be listened to by younger people who have grown up with free music. They might not know it's sampled in the first place. Like they might not know that the video for Single Ladies is Mexican Breakfast. Why would a teenager know or heard of Gwen Verdon? Many people think Michael Jackson invented the Moonwalk, when it's been around for decades under different names. It was long before any breakdancing and popping as well.

.

In some places, the record stores have closed down and Target/Wal-Mart has a limited selection. Where do people who don't have a computer or don't have a credit card buy music? You can't purchase online without credit. Kids and teens are not as likely to have a credit card, so they're going to steal it by downloading.

[Edited 8/21/13 11:23am]

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

exactly....that's my point......there's only one genre that's truly thriving because the music is authentic......

every onther genre keeps running into brick walls due to sampling proliferation that has run its course

No, it's because there's less downloading for free with country. People who listen to classical, blues, and other traditional genres are also less likely to steal it as they're usually older. If people are getting music for free, of course it's not going to sell. It has nothing to do with sampling itself. The music that uses samples like rap are more likely to be listened to by younger people who have grown up with free music. They might not know it's sampled in the first place. Like they might not know that the video for Single Ladies is Mexican Breakfast. Why would a teenager know or heard of Gwen Verdon? Many people think Michael Jackson invented the Moonwalk, when it's been around for decades under different names. It was long before any breakdancing and popping as well.

.

In some places, the record stores have closed down and Target/Wal-Mart has a limited selection. Where do people who don't have a computer or don't have a credit card buy music? You can't purchase online without credit. Kids and teens are not as likely to have a credit card, so they're going to steal it by downloading.

[Edited 8/21/13 11:23am]

the thing about hip-hop, when it was first created and eminated, it wasn't a youth oriented music, it was a people oriented music for youth AND adults....

but when it was commercialized, it was pushed exclusively to youth, one of the main reasons why they are unaware where the source of the music they are listening to originated from

the adult audience stopped buying music as they once did because 1.) the record industry no longer respected them....2.) the quality of the music overall was beginning to decline as a whole

...

This is all very interesting me, since there have there have obviously been many music lawsuits over the long years, preceding the advent of sampling.

In the following early 80's case, Jazz pianist Keith Jarrett successfully sued Steely Dan over their track, 'Gaucho' , charging that it was taken from his piece, 'Long As You Know You're Living Yours'. As a result of the suit, there were royalties owed and all subsequent pressings of the Gaucho album had to have Keith Jarrett's name listed in the compositional credits for the song.

Listening back to the two, you can definitely hear the inspiration...though it's not exactly note for note -- and they still had to pay and give credit. In the case of Huey Lewis ('I Want A New Drug') and Ray Parker Jr. ('Ghostbusters'), I believe a settlement was reached.

Now, I have heard lots of music that's much more similar, yet there were no successful lawsuits in those cases. So, is this just arbitrary? Does it depend on which side has the better lawyer?

...

...

....

[Edited 8/21/13 12:27pm]

Scorp said:

the thing about hip-hop, when it was first created and eminated, it wasn't a youth oriented music, it was a people oriented music for youth AND adults....

but when it was commercialized, it was pushed exclusively to youth, one of the main reasons why they are unaware where the source of the music they are listening to originated from

the adult audience stopped buying music as they once did because 1.) the record industry no longer respected them....2.) the quality of the music overall was beginning to decline as a whole

Not really, it was mainly a youth thing from the beginning. Many R&B stations wouldn't play rap when it came out, and it was said that Don Cornelius didn't want it on Soul Train at first. When rap acts of the time opened for funk bands/R&B groups, they were sometimes met with derision from the bands because it was a guy with 2 turntables and some other guys chanting/talking and no instruments. It was mostly younger people who were breakin' and popping. Interestingly, in the beginning rap was picked up by some punk rock fans. Punk was also a youth based music designed as rebellion from arena rock, hippy rock, and prog rock with long solos and songs.

[Edited 8/21/13 11:57am]

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

the thing about hip-hop, when it was first created and eminated, it wasn't a youth oriented music, it was a people oriented music for youth AND adults....

but when it was commercialized, it was pushed exclusively to youth, one of the main reasons why they are unaware where the source of the music they are listening to originated from

the adult audience stopped buying music as they once did because 1.) the record industry no longer respected them....2.) the quality of the music overall was beginning to decline as a whole

Not really, it was mainly a youth thing from the beginning. Many R&B stations wouldn't play rap when it came out, and it was said that Don Cornelius didn't not want it on Soul Train at first. When rap acts of the time opened for funk bands/R&B groups, they were sometimes met with derision from the bands because it was a guy with 2 turntables and some other guys chanting/talking and no instruments. It was mostly younger people who were breakin' and popping. Interestingly, in the rap was picked up by some punk rock fans. Punk was also a youth based music designed as rebellion from arena rock, hippy rock, and prog rock with long solos and songs.

in 1977-78

the forefathers who crafted this expression in the NYC burroughs, they issued a warning to the people because they knew they were sitting on something essential

they said if the music ever became commercialized, it would be destroyed, and ripped from its essence....this was decades before music downloading existed.....they already knew

those who crafted the expression were grown adults, then the B-Boys brought forth the breaking and popping afterwards....there was a great mix

buy the time it became commercialized, that's when established programs attempted to reject it

I was 7-8 years old, r&b stations were rocking Rapper's Delight in 1979

and Kurtis Blow's "The Breaks" in 1980....they played that jam constantly

in 1982, "Apache" by the Sugar HIll gang was played around the clock along with "Planet Rock" by Afrika Bambaataa and the Soul Sonic Force....omg...what a summer.........

and in 1982, the #1 requested song during that summer in my town was "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five......

see, the thing about it, it was meant to be a music for the people, to give voice to those who originally wasn't allowed to have one...it was never meant to be commercialized.........

the forefathers have proven to be right some 30 plus years later.....

oh, in 1980, Soul Train featured Kurtis Blow on the show performing "The Breaks"......

and looks who dancing to is...it's ALLLLL GROWN FOLKS

[Edited 8/21/13 12:28pm]

Scorp said:

oh, in 1980, Soul Train featured Kurtis Blow on the show performing "The Breaks"......

Having Kurtis Blow on the show is not the same thing as not wanting rap on there. I don't suppose that Johnny Carson liked every single music act and actor that appeared on the Tonight Show, but they were booked anyway. Arsenio Hall often made jokes about Milli Vanilli, but after the scandal, they released an album of their own singing as Rob & Fab, and Arsenio had them on his show. Frank Sinatra spoke out against rock 'n roll, but yet had Elvis Presley on his show. The whole "Disco Demolition" and "Disco Sucks" started because DJ's at rock stations did not want to play disco music, but had to.

SoulAlive said:

Graycap23 said:

U can justify it in any manner that u wish, and on the surface u would be correct.

That said, dude jacked the track and will probably get away with it.

As a musician, I find is position WEAK at best.

I have no respect 4 this move.

Plain and simple.

The judge could very well rule *against* Robin and Pharrell.I like the fact that they're confident and willing to present their case.I don't respect people who make threats and claims behind the scenes.That's what courts are for...to settle disagreements.

Is there proof of the Gaye estate making a threat or claim behind the scene? So far I've

only heard of Robin and his cronies filing a suit. If i'm representing the Gaye estate why wouldn't I want to protect Marvin's song if said artist doesn't credit the writer properly. Remember Michael Bolton tried this crap with the Isley Brothers years ago.

Ottensen said:

Graycap23 said:

Proactive nonsense.

They jacked the track.

NEXT.

This.

Does he really believe that the audience he has spent the majority of his life catering to cannnot recognize the song we've been hearing since we were in diapers and our own parents were young enough to shake their groove thangs to GTGIU? Really, now.

...and that being said, as much as I've liked Robin Thicke's work in the past, it's a little sketchy to see such a lawsuit come to pass given the fact that anyone can easily call up last year's entire season of "Duets", where he spent the majority of the time gushing over Marvin Gaye and his influence on him as an artist, then covering his songs for half the comepetition. Methinks the good Mr. Thicke is feeling himself a little too much now that he's finally crossed over into mainstream success and is all too ready to bite the hand that once fed him for the majority of his career. Very very hollow on his behalf and disappointing...I won't be buying anything more of his work after this.

I already have a ticket for that train. I just haven't quite hopped on board yet.

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

oh, in 1980, Soul Train featured Kurtis Blow on the show performing "The Breaks"......

Having Kurtis Blow on the show is not the same thing as not wanting rap on there. I don't suppose that Johnny Carson liked every single music act and actor that appeared on the Tonight Show, but they were booked anyway. Arsenio Hall often made jokes about Milli Vanilli, but after the scandal, they released an album of their own singing as Rob & Fab, and Arsenio had them on his show. Frank Sinatra spoke out against rock 'n roll, but yet had Elvis Presley on his show. The whole "Disco Demolition" and "Disco Sucks" started because DJ's at rock stations did not want to play disco music, but had to.

this is the difference between those other instances and when Kurtis Blow appeared on Soul Train.

all those other acts sparked controversy once the genre they represented had already went commercial....

when Kurtis appeared on Sout Train, Rap music hadn't....

it hasn't been commercially exploited yet........the music is most rich when its' associate from the point of origin of which it sprung from.....

but once it goes commercial, the origin point of origin gets pushed out and the intent gives way and loses out to being exploited...it happens every single time.....and that's what creates the hostility

Don Cornelius supported the true essence of hip-hop from day one because he had the original Lockers on his show performing frequently poppin and lockin

^^Don told Kurtis during the interview after he performed The Breaks that he didn't understand rap or why people liked it. That doesn't sound like Don was supportive to me. Bounce TV showed reruns of certain Soul Train episodes over and over, so it was there for all to see.

.

Here's an excerpt of an interview Kurtis did in 2002:

.

JayQuan: You were the first Emcee on Soul Train?

.

Kurtis Blow: Yes, I was 19 years old....I didn't even lipsync....I had an instrumental on the B side of "The Breaks" and I went live. Don Cornelous dissed rap.....when he introduced me he said "I don't know what all the fuss is about with this rap stuff, but I guess its just my job to introduce it.....Kurtis Blow".....I was like why did he do that on national TV! ? !

.

JQ: How were you treated by your labelmates, being on Polygram/Mercury..when they had Barkays, Rene & Angela and all these people?

.

KB: It was mixed...nobody really understood Hip Hop. But I was the labels last priority. I met a lot of people though everybody...Bob Marley, Commodores, Mick Jagger and the Stones, Michael Jackson.....everyone.

.

JQ: What capacity did you meet Mike in...a club/party, studio or what...and was he cool ?

.

KB: He was real cool, I used to date Latoya for awhile, I was a close freind of the family. I have been in the studio with Jermaine...they were cool people.

Tha Foundation

MickyDolenz said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

And most artist aren't as gifted as Prince, to be able to create 1000's of songs that are nothing alike from scratch....He is one of kind at that...

He's not original either, not his music or his look. Prince has also sampled and has taken credit for things that his band members or others came up with (ie. Partyup, the arrangement on Kiss). It doesn't matter if he made a deal with Morris, Prince still is taking credit for someone else's idea. The record labels also made deals with performers and taken their work too.

"Party up" would have never seen the light of the day without 's midas touch! It doesn't matter what ideas Prince took from his bandmates in rehearsals. Prince's gift is to take everything in, absorb it, and turn it into a mega hit record. What hit record have any of his bandmates had on their own NADA!! case closed....

Also "Kiss" was originally composed by Prince! Who gave it to David Z & Mazzarti to jazz up. He then took it back, put his classic scratch rhythm guitar on it, took the boring bass out & added his "Masterpiece" lead falsetto vocal on it! turned it into a number 1 MEGA hit! That several have remade themselves....DON'T PLAY 's natural talent down on here mister!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

MickyDolenz said:

He's not original either, not his music or his look. Prince has also sampled and has taken credit for things that his band members or others came up with (ie. Partyup, the arrangement on Kiss). It doesn't matter if he made a deal with Morris, Prince still is taking credit for someone else's idea. The record labels also made deals with performers and taken their work too.

"Party up" would have never seen the light of the day without 's midas touch! It doesn't matter what ideas Prince took from his bandmates in rehearsals. Prince's gift is to take everything in, absorb it, and turn it into a mega hit record. What hit record have any of his bandmates had on their own NADA!! case closed....

Also "Kiss" was originally composed by Prince! Who gave it to David Z & Mazzarti to jazz up. He then took it back, put his classic scratch rhythm guitar on it, took the boring bass out & added his "Masterpiece" lead falsetto vocal on it! turned it into a number 1 MEGA hit! That several have remade themselves....DON'T PLAY 's natural talent down on here mister!

As snarky as this reply is... I must co-sign!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

"Party up" would have never seen the light of the day without 's midas touch! It doesn't matter what ideas Prince took from his bandmates in rehearsals. Prince's gift is to take everything in, absorb it, and turn it into a mega hit record. What hit record have any of his bandmates had on their own NADA!! case closed....

Also "Kiss" was originally composed by Prince! Who gave it to David Z & Mazzarti to jazz up. He then took it back, put his classic scratch rhythm guitar on it, took the boring bass out & added his "Masterpiece" lead falsetto vocal on it! turned it into a number 1 MEGA hit! That several have remade themselves....DON'T PLAY 's natural talent down on here mister!

Which means he is not original. I didn't say he had no talent. That's 2 different things. His songs didn't come out of nowhere, just like nobody's else's music has. Prince also didn't turn anything into a hit record, the promotional department at Warners did. Would Prince have any hits if he signed to Malaco or Alligator Records instead of Warner Brothers? Of course not, they don't have the big money for payola or music videos, nor the international distribution reach of a Warners or CBS Records. If Michael Jackson was signed to those labels, Thriller wouldn't have done much either.

phunkdaddy said:

SoulAlive said:

Graycap23 said: The judge could very well rule *against* Robin and Pharrell.I like the fact that they're confident and willing to present their case.I don't respect people who make threats and claims behind the scenes.That's what courts are for...to settle disagreements.

Is there proof of the Gaye estate making a threat or claim behind the scene? So far I've

only heard of Robin and his cronies filing a suit. If i'm representing the Gaye estate why wouldn't I want to protect Marvin's song if said artist doesn't credit the writer properly. Remember Michael Bolton tried this crap with the Isley Brothers years ago.

Yes,go back and read the full lawsuit.Robin's suit is a response to those threats.Now don't get me wrong,the Gaye family has every right to go after someone when they feel that someone stole Marvin's music,but instead of simply filing a lawsuit,they're engaging in shady behavior.That's why I don't respect them.I've heard alot of horror stories of how they have dealt with other people,as well.

Thicke, Pharrell Williams and Clifford Harris, Jr. claim they were threatened by both Gaye's family and Funkadelic, each asserting that the summer hit wasn't original

[Edited 8/21/13 16:41pm]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

MickyDolenz said:

He's not original either, not his music or his look. Prince has also sampled and has taken credit for things that his band members or others came up with (ie. Partyup, the arrangement on Kiss). It doesn't matter if he made a deal with Morris, Prince still is taking credit for someone else's idea. The record labels also made deals with performers and taken their work too.

"Party up" would have never seen the light of the day without 's midas touch! It doesn't matter what ideas Prince took from his bandmates in rehearsals. Prince's gift is to take everything in, absorb it, and turn it into a mega hit record. What hit record have any of his bandmates had on their own NADA!! case closed....

Also "Kiss" was originally composed by Prince! Who gave it to David Z & Mazzarti to jazz up. He then took it back, put his classic scratch rhythm guitar on it, took the boring bass out & added his "Masterpiece" lead falsetto vocal on it! turned it into a number 1 MEGA hit! That several have remade themselves....DON'T PLAY 's natural talent down on here mister!

yes,even Prince has been had to deal with stuff like this.His own sister sued him,claiming that he stole her lyrics and then came up with "U Got The Look".Andre Cymone has claimed that "Do Me Baby" is really his composition.And then there is the Journey "Faithfully"/Purple Rain" thing.I'm not saying that these are all examples of copyright infringement,just saying that MANY songs borrow elements from other songs.Nowadays,more than ever.

paligap said:

...

This is all very interesting me, since there have there have obviously been many music lawsuits over the long years, preceding the advent of sampling.

In the following early 80's case, Jazz pianist Keith Jarrett successfully sued Steely Dan over their track, 'Gaucho' , charging that it was taken from his piece, 'Long As You Know You're Living Yours'. As a result of the suit, there were royalties owed and all subsequent pressings of the Gaucho album had to have Keith Jarrett's name listed in the compositional credits for the song.

Listening back to the two, you can definitely hear the inspiration...though it's not exactly note for note -- and they still had to pay and give credit. In the case of Huey Lewis ('I Want A New Drug') and Ray Parker Jr. ('Ghostbusters'), I believe a settlement was reached.

Now, I have heard lots of music that's much more similar, yet there were no successful lawsuits in those cases. So, is this just arbitrary? Does it depend on which side has the better lawyer?

It's a really weird thing,isn't it? In this thread alone,many songs have been mentioned....songs that are obvious examples of copyright infringement.Makes you wonder why there weren't lawsuits for many of thes songs

"Freakshow On The Dancefloor" sounds like a speeded-up version of "No Parking On The Dancefloor".

The first time I heard Ready For The World's "Oh Sheila",I immediately thought of Cameo's "Style"....that's exactly where they got that synth riff from.

There's alot of gray area,when it comes to a song being "inspired" by another song,or straight up ripping it off.

interestingly,when the Ray Parker Jr/Huey Lewis lawsuit was settled,neither side were allowed to go to the media and talk about it.