10000Degrees said:

mjscarousal said:

You're right...but I dont think it should win 30 grammys and I personally wouldnt pay money for it. I am not moved or touched by her music in that way but I agree every music has its place. By the way, I did agree with alot of your points.

I see that you agreed with me but that's not really important... I just didn't feel comfortable with the tone of the comment - it sounded elitist but that's common place here at the org. It's art - not a competition.

What tone am I suppose to express myself in?

Thats MY opinion and if you disagree with it thats okay but you need to respect the opinions of others. If you like her music thats cool but that doesnt mean everyone else has to or is in a "elitist" as you say. To be honest, it seems your the one that has a elitist closeminded view about others who dont care for her music. I am just tired of people being so damn judgemental about other peoples music opinions. People are free to like and dislike whatever they want.

mjscarousal said:

10000Degrees said:

I see that you agreed with me but that's not really important... I just didn't feel comfortable with the tone of the comment - it sounded elitist but that's common place here at the org. It's art - not a competition.

What tone am I suppose to express myself in?

Thats MY opinion and if you disagree with it thats okay but you need to respect the opinions of others. If you like her music thats cool but that doesnt mean everyone else has to or is in a "elitist" as you say. To be honest, it seems your the one that has a elitist closeminded view about others who dont care for her music. I am just tired of people being so damn judgemental about other peoples music opinions. People are free to like and dislike whatever they want.

Well hold on a second - I am not trying to tell people to start listening to her music. In fact, I could care less. Actually, I couldn't...

The discussion points on these boards by many posters suggest that the music that is being released under the artist title of Rihanna is somehow not as 'authentic' or worthy as a result of a variety of factors which I will list:

- she's not the only songwriter on board

- she's not playing any of the instruments

- people don't like the sound of her voice and as a result believe that she is technically a poor singer

- she's a fabrication of a bunch of suits (insisting that she has no involvement in the craft of her music and the overall product)

All of these things are not true - further still, if you actually sit down and listen to the material, you'll hear a fantastic synergy of synthesizers, guitars through processors creating unique sounds, drums, drum programming, her own unique tone of voice, melodies, harmonies and very sexual lyrics that don't cross over into the territory of being cheap or lewd. I've referenced the song in a previous post but it's stuff like this that makes me want to listen to what her and her camp are putting together:

Where Have You Been

All this aside, as a Prince head I must say that outside of producing, writing, composing and arranging all of his own material, much of Prince's dance/erotic material from the earlier part of his career (i.e., Erotic City, Little Red Corvette, Lady Cab Driver) has modern parallels in her music. This is further supported by her nod to that part of Prince's career in her live show: she's covered A Glamorous Life which she would segue into from Breakin Dishes (a fantastic song written by the Dream), Darling Nikki and Nuno Bettencourt (another Prince head who thinks quite highly of his guitar playing) used to a part of the Purple Rain solo during the vamp out of the song Skin - a song that owes heavily to the influence of Prince.

So, back to your original comment - I don't care what you listen to. Actually, I am curious if there's anything new that you could introduce me to. But I do care if people are putting forward illegitimate criticisms or trying to position their arguments as fact without any real substance.

Whatever - I'll shut up already, DAMN!

[Edited 8/21/13 17:46pm]

[Edited 8/21/13 17:47pm]

[Edited 8/21/13 17:49pm]

they both suck end of story

Rihanna is cliche of everything that has ever been disingenuous about the music business. A soulless Barbie Doll, with plastic doll parts, who was plucked off the streets of no where and put on–simply because the outfit was her size. In other words: commerce…created and puppet mastered by money grubbing music executives as a tool to co-opt what is currently popular for fast cash, and pandered to the dingiest of music listeners who are not discerning enough to care.

You have to give the label, the management, the A&R people, the songwriters, the producers, the directors and the thousand other magicians involved their credit for being savvy enough to outfit this garden-variety debutante with material and promotion to keep her afloat…but let’s be real, there is nothing ‘special’ or ‘unique’ about Rihanna, herself. She has little talent, no personality or strong image, nor does she command the stage. Anyone could have been cast in the role Rihanna plays; she just lucked out. For all intents and purposes, Rihanna is akin to a can of Hormel Chili; basically a canned product with a label (and a ‘sell by’ date) on it.

The bottom line is that Rihanna was not built to last and is very “replaceable.” This is why she does not take breaks, and repetitiously puts out a generic by-the-numbers pop album every year. Being that she has little ‘star power,’ in order to sustain her momentum she has to continually strike while the iron is hot, while employing a multitude of petty ‘stunts’ to get attention (tacky wigs, brothel attire, referencing her tumultuous relationship Chris Brown years later.) The moment she sits down to catch her breath, ten more record label assembled chippies will be thrown into the ring and the last two standing will be the next “Rihanna.”

No more do we need windup doll acts like Rihanna getting on camera and posing like an androidian cast-off from America’s Next Top Model, while vapidly bleating over an empty dance track, hanging around longer than the fifteen minutes that is typically allotted for manufactured pop stars such as her. It’s just getting sad now, and the quality is dipping. Gone are the pseudo-interesting songs like “Umbrella,” now she is peddling random, monotonous dead air like “We Found Love.” The girl has run her course; at this point she is on autopilot and is fast becoming the equivalent of a skipping record.

Graycap23 said:

I just purchased every Rihanna cd a few weeks ago.

I like her material much more than Beyonce's material on every level.

Beyonce can out sing her from a vocal standpoint, but Rihanna is better on released material in my opinion.

Welcome to the Ri-Ri train! She's got some decent material. Nothing wrong with a catchy song.

Rihanna knows how to deliver a solid hit, but I'm just waiting for her to make a record as strong as 4.

"U Da 1" alone has more heart, soul, personality and FUN than the whole discography of Boringcé

Beyoncé music is just HOPELESSLY irrelevant/dull/boring, it has nothing to hold on to, NOTHING

JoeTyler said:

"U Da 1" alone has more heart, soul, personality and FUN than the whole discography of Boringcé

Beyoncé music is just HOPELESSLY irrelevant/dull/boring, it has nothing to hold on to, NOTHING

Wow wow wow

I'm not sure I would compare Rihanna to make the point,
but at her worst,
yes..
Boringcé

Rihanna's 'Unapologetic' is a surprisingly catchy and entertaining Bubble Gum Pop cd. From the track, 'Fresh of the Runway' to 'Lost in Paradise' the cd is filled with some enjoyable, contemporary pop beats and decent lyrics. Her voice works for the type of music she does. Her Instagram account is brilliant and im sure her fans really appreciate it. She knows how to use social media. The way Prince used to love taking pictures of himself, imagine if the internet was available in 1986. She is sexy as fuck and her perfomances are underrated. She caught my attention during the NBA All Star Weekend Half-Time Show a couple of years back. She is good at reinvinting herself.

Beyonce is obviously a force to be reckoned with in todays Pop music world. I lost interest in her tho after the song ' Dangerously in Love'. In that one moment she shown a flash of great potential. Instead she now has a catalogue full of fluff with no actual substance. Dont know if she is trying to be Tina Turner, Janet, Whitney, Joplin or Madonna. She is a jack of all trades and master of none. Yeah Rihanna for me.

kitbradley said:

Although I've had stomach cramps that I enjoyed more than listening to Beyonce's music, at least she can sing in more than one key. Rhianna has that one key she always sings in - off-key.

[Edited 8/9/13 12:02pm]

LOL! And ya KNOW datt!

whitechocolatebrotha said:

kitbradley said:

Although I've had stomach cramps that I enjoyed more than listening to Beyonce's music, at least she can sing in more than one key. Rhianna has that one key she always sings in - off-key.

[Edited 8/9/13 12:02pm]

LOL! And ya KNOW datt!

Now that these two have shown everyone that neither of them have any idea as to what singing in key is, can we try to have a real discussion in here every once in a while?

JoeTyler said:

"U Da 1" alone has more heart, soul, personality and FUN than the whole discography of Boringcé

Beyoncé music is just HOPELESSLY irrelevant/dull/boring, it has nothing to hold on to, NOTHING

indeed, but both are boring as hell, so really no point to define which one is occasionally a bit less boring


anyway, all that has still NOTHING to do with your thread topic

comparing the material of both? fine, we can do that somewhere else. but now back to the original topic, shall we?

replace Rihanna with any hobo from the street, and U Da 1 would be still the same. it has nothing to do with Rihanna or her "talents".

so no, R is NOT "way better than B in every f aspect", and nothing you brought to the table so far supports your claim

Dancelot said:

JoeTyler said:

"U Da 1" alone has more heart, soul, personality and FUN than the whole discography of Boringcé

Beyoncé music is just HOPELESSLY irrelevant/dull/boring, it has nothing to hold on to, NOTHING

indeed, but both are boring as hell, so really no point to define which one is occasionally a bit less boring


anyway, all that has still NOTHING to do with your thread topic

comparing the material of both? fine, we can do that somewhere else. but now back to the original topic, shall we?

replace Rihanna with any hobo from the street, and U Da 1 would be still the same. it has nothing to do with Rihanna or her "talents".

so no, R is NOT "way better than B in every f aspect", and nothing you brought to the table so far supports your claim

Consider her tone of voice is quite unique but I get the impression that you're not going to listen to any of the commentary here or the music as you've made up your mind already - this in itself is quite ironic considering your signature regarding religion.

Anyhow, I would encourage you to listen to the Esther Dean's (one of the songwriters of Rude Boy) version of Rude Boy vs. Rihanna's. As you'll find out after listening to both songs, Esther Dean's vocals resemble that of many other singers where Rihanna's tone is just so much more interesting and unique.

But again, I'm sure this is just noise in an already made up mind.

I'll provide links to those who want to listen:

Esther Dean's

http://www.youtube.com/wa...QRz2SRvyUw

Rihanna's
http://www.youtube.com/wa...82VE8UtW8A

10000

10000Degrees said:

Dancelot said:

indeed, but both are boring as hell, so really no point to define which one is occasionally a bit less boring


anyway, all that has still NOTHING to do with your thread topic

comparing the material of both? fine, we can do that somewhere else. but now back to the original topic, shall we?

replace Rihanna with any hobo from the street, and U Da 1 would be still the same. it has nothing to do with Rihanna or her "talents".

so no, R is NOT "way better than B in every f aspect", and nothing you brought to the table so far supports your claim

Consider her tone of voice is quite unique but I get the impression that you're not going to listen to any of the commentary here or the music as you've made up your mind already - this in itself is quite ironic considering your signature regarding religion.

Anyhow, I would encourage you to listen to the Esther Dean's (one of the songwriters of Rude Boy) version of Rude Boy vs. Rihanna's. As you'll find out after listening to both songs, Esther Dean's vocals resemble that of many other singers where Rihanna's tone is just so much more interesting and unique.

But again, I'm sure this is just noise in an already made up mind.

I'll provide links to those who want to listen:

Esther Dean's

http://www.youtube.com/wa...QRz2SRvyUw

Rihanna's
http://www.youtube.com/wa...82VE8UtW8A

10000

this comparison perfectly illustrates what I was saying: R is compeltely dispoasable and interchangable. the "singer" is just a paramter in music SELLING machinery. and yeah, Dean sings it maybe even more boring... in a fucking DEMO!?!! so what

but in any version this SONG is just boring boring boring. zero inspiration, zero groove, zero nice harmonies or melody. some automated smartphone apps can automatically compose something like that. same is valid for most of Bey's material of course. which, again, was NOT the point of the thread initially!

and R's voice, yeah it might be "unique", but I just can't stand the tone, no maatter how often I try. I just don't LIKE her VOICE, what is so hard to accept about that?

same with Dylan, yeah, he might be an extraordinary songwriter, but everytime I tried to get into his own recordings I failed. his voice almost gives me phyisical pain. and yeah, before and after surgery.

[Edited 8/23/13 0:54am]

Dancelot said:

JoeTyler said:

"U Da 1" alone has more heart, soul, personality and FUN than the whole discography of Boringcé

Beyoncé music is just HOPELESSLY irrelevant/dull/boring, it has nothing to hold on to, NOTHING

[Snip - luv4u]

JoeTyler said:

Dancelot said:

[Snip - luv4u]

hey, NOW we're getting somewhere.
finally you start to debate like a grown up and back up your claims with proper arguments and facts






oh wait....


nvmnd... maybe Rihanna music IS damaging the brain after all

JoeTyler said:

Dancelot said:

[Snip - luv4u]

How old are you again?

This is fun.

Dancelot said:

JoeTyler said:

[Snip - luv4u]

hey, NOW we're getting somewhere.
finally you start to debate like a grown up and back up your claims with proper arguments and facts






oh wait....


nvmnd... maybe Rihanna music IS damaging the brain after all

and yet you're here, wasting your time,

please go to Innsbruck and hide in a snow cave or something

[Edited 8/23/13 6:22am]

Dancelot said:

10000Degrees said:

Consider her tone of voice is quite unique but I get the impression that you're not going to listen to any of the commentary here or the music as you've made up your mind already - this in itself is quite ironic considering your signature regarding religion.

Anyhow, I would encourage you to listen to the Esther Dean's (one of the songwriters of Rude Boy) version of Rude Boy vs. Rihanna's. As you'll find out after listening to both songs, Esther Dean's vocals resemble that of many other singers where Rihanna's tone is just so much more interesting and unique.

But again, I'm sure this is just noise in an already made up mind.

I'll provide links to those who want to listen:

Esther Dean's

http://www.youtube.com/wa...QRz2SRvyUw

Rihanna's
http://www.youtube.com/wa...82VE8UtW8A

10000

this comparison perfectly illustrates what I was saying: R is compeltely dispoasable and interchangable. the "singer" is just a paramter in music SELLING machinery. and yeah, Dean sings it maybe even more boring... in a fucking DEMO!?!! so what

but in any version this SONG is just boring boring boring. zero inspiration, zero groove, zero nice harmonies or melody. some automated smartphone apps can automatically compose something like that. same is valid for most of Bey's material of course. which, again, was NOT the point of the thread initially!

and R's voice, yeah it might be "unique", but I just can't stand the tone, no maatter how often I try. I just don't LIKE her VOICE, what is so hard to accept about that?

same with Dylan, yeah, he might be an extraordinary songwriter, but everytime I tried to get into his own recordings I failed. his voice almost gives me phyisical pain. and yeah, before and after surgery.

[Edited 8/23/13 0:54am]

Wait buddy - I respect your opinion in that you, "Just don't like her voice." There's nothing hard to accept about that and you are entitled to feel that way.

When you say the song is boring, has zero inspiration (whatever that even means), has zero groove, has zero nice harmonies or melody, well that's first not true and secondly, your opinion being passed off as facts. There's a groove there - you obviously don't like it. There's a melody there - you obviously don't like it either. There are harmonies there - again, you don't like it.

However, by my ears, it's a catchy, sexy little groove produced by Stargate - two musicians who have been doing some really fantastic funky and unique work. Stargate, Rihanna and Esther Dean have been writing some really intriguing music that very much... you know what? Forget it.

I get the impression you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about and I'm wasting my time.

Whatever

I'm sorry, I just HAVE to say something on THIS.

10000Degrees said:

mjscarousal said:

What tone am I suppose to express myself in?

Thats MY opinion and if you disagree with it thats okay but you need to respect the opinions of others. If you like her music thats cool but that doesnt mean everyone else has to or is in a "elitist" as you say. To be honest, it seems your the one that has a elitist closeminded view about others who dont care for her music. I am just tired of people being so damn judgemental about other peoples music opinions. People are free to like and dislike whatever they want.

Well hold on a second - I am not trying to tell people to start listening to her music. In fact, I could care less. Actually, I couldn't...

The discussion points on these boards by many posters suggest that the music that is being released under the artist title of Rihanna is somehow not as 'authentic' or worthy as a result of a variety of factors which I will list:

- she's not the only songwriter on board

- she's not playing any of the instruments

- people don't like the sound of her voice and as a result believe that she is technically a poor singer

- she's a fabrication of a bunch of suits (insisting that she has no involvement in the craft of her music and the overall product)

All of these things are not true - further still, if you actually sit down and listen to the material, you'll hear a fantastic synergy of synthesizers, guitars through processors creating unique sounds, drums, drum programming, her own unique tone of voice, melodies, harmonies and very sexual lyrics that don't cross over into the territory of being cheap or lewd. I've referenced the song in a previous post but it's stuff like this that makes me want to listen to what her and her camp are putting together:

Where Have You Been

All this aside, as a Prince head I must say that outside of producing, writing, composing and arranging all of his own material, much of Prince's dance/erotic material from the earlier part of his career (i.e., Erotic City, Little Red Corvette, Lady Cab Driver) has modern parallels in her music. This is further supported by her nod to that part of Prince's career in her live show: she's covered A Glamorous Life which she would segue into from Breakin Dishes (a fantastic song written by the Dream), Darling Nikki and Nuno Bettencourt (another Prince head who thinks quite highly of his guitar playing) used to a part of the Purple Rain solo during the vamp out of the song Skin - a song that owes heavily to the influence of Prince.

So, back to your original comment - I don't care what you listen to. Actually, I am curious if there's anything new that you could introduce me to. But I do care if people are putting forward illegitimate criticisms or trying to position their arguments as fact without any real substance.

Whatever - I'll shut up already, DAMN!

[Edited 8/21/13 17:46pm]

[Edited 8/21/13 17:47pm]

[Edited 8/21/13 17:49pm]

LMFAO @ these grand Gloria Estefan reaches.

Rihanna is NOT a songwriter on board or full stop. She CAN'T play instruments. And people don't believe that she's a poor technical singer because they don't like the sound (or rather, the tone) of her voice. They believe that she is a poor technical singer because she is one and it's evident. She's off-pitch half the time, has no breath control because she's out of shape, has no range (she bottoms out on F3 ), and her placement is hideous which is WHY her tone sounds so bad.

There is absolutely nothing going on in Rihanna's music that doesn't come from other artist's work (INCLUDING Beyoncé's) and none of it has any sort of individual stamp either, because she's not a musician in any sense of the word. ESPECIALLY Where Have You Been. And ROFL @ her lyrics not being cheap or lewd when "Birthday Cake" exists.

And it's a damn shame that a Prince fan would reduce his influence to sexual lyrical content (not that there is ANYTHING wrong with that in and of itself). Because that is the ONLY parallel between Prince and Rihanna besides the times when she's co-opted his hairstyle.

luv4u said:

[img:$uid]http://i41.tinypic.com/25jbes3.jpg[/img:$uid]

katamari said:

I'm sorry, I just HAVE to say something on THIS.

10000Degrees said:

Well hold on a second - I am not trying to tell people to start listening to her music. In fact, I could care less. Actually, I couldn't...

The discussion points on these boards by many posters suggest that the music that is being released under the artist title of Rihanna is somehow not as 'authentic' or worthy as a result of a variety of factors which I will list:

- she's not the only songwriter on board

- she's not playing any of the instruments

- people don't like the sound of her voice and as a result believe that she is technically a poor singer

- she's a fabrication of a bunch of suits (insisting that she has no involvement in the craft of her music and the overall product)

All of these things are not true - further still, if you actually sit down and listen to the material, you'll hear a fantastic synergy of synthesizers, guitars through processors creating unique sounds, drums, drum programming, her own unique tone of voice, melodies, harmonies and very sexual lyrics that don't cross over into the territory of being cheap or lewd. I've referenced the song in a previous post but it's stuff like this that makes me want to listen to what her and her camp are putting together:

Where Have You Been

All this aside, as a Prince head I must say that outside of producing, writing, composing and arranging all of his own material, much of Prince's dance/erotic material from the earlier part of his career (i.e., Erotic City, Little Red Corvette, Lady Cab Driver) has modern parallels in her music. This is further supported by her nod to that part of Prince's career in her live show: she's covered A Glamorous Life which she would segue into from Breakin Dishes (a fantastic song written by the Dream), Darling Nikki and Nuno Bettencourt (another Prince head who thinks quite highly of his guitar playing) used to a part of the Purple Rain solo during the vamp out of the song Skin - a song that owes heavily to the influence of Prince.

So, back to your original comment - I don't care what you listen to. Actually, I am curious if there's anything new that you could introduce me to. But I do care if people are putting forward illegitimate criticisms or trying to position their arguments as fact without any real substance.

Whatever - I'll shut up already, DAMN!

[Edited 8/21/13 17:46pm]

[Edited 8/21/13 17:47pm]

[Edited 8/21/13 17:49pm]

LMFAO @ these grand Gloria Estefan reaches.

Rihanna is NOT a songwriter on board or full stop. She CAN'T play instruments. And people don't believe that she's a poor technical singer because they don't like the sound (or rather, the tone) of her voice. They believe that she is a poor technical singer because she is one and it's evident. She's off-pitch half the time, has no breath control because she's out of shape, has no range (she bottoms out on F3 ), and her placement is hideous which is WHY her tone sounds so bad.

There is absolutely nothing going on in Rihanna's music that doesn't come from other artist's work (INCLUDING Beyoncé's) and none of it has any sort of individual stamp either, because she's not a musician in any sense of the word. ESPECIALLY Where Have You Been. And ROFL @ her lyrics not being cheap or lewd when "Birthday Cake" exists.

And it's a damn shame that a Prince fan would reduce his influence to sexual lyrical content (not that there is ANYTHING wrong with that in and of itself). Because that is the ONLY parallel between Prince and Rihanna besides the times when she's co-opted his hairstyle.

Thanks for uhhh, nothing that makes much sense.

I will say this - you attempted to disguise yourself as knowledgeable by inaccurately discussing technical musical points.

Please don't follow me in any further posts - we're trying to have a real conversation.

By strange coincidence I just heard "Umbrella" again the other day. Great song. One other thing struck me; something that hasn't been mentioned so I'll throw it in. Rihanna's much-maligned voice actually has a quite a sexy quality to it. I don't know how many studio tricks they use to cover her technical inadequacies, but the basic tone and intonation is sexy. Always a useful quality in pop music.

midnightmover said:

By strange coincidence I just heard "Umbrella" again the other day. Great song. One other thing struck me; something that hasn't been mentioned so I'll throw it in. Rihanna's much-maligned voice actually has a quite a sexy quality to it. I don't know how many studio tricks they use to cover her technical inadequacies, but the basic tone and intonation is sexy. Always a useful quality in pop music.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. "Umbrella" is a fantastic song, but it's easy to see why Mary J. Blige turned it down. I think someone was implying that Rihanna's voice has its good qualities earlier, but you said it very succinctly. I don't think she's a great singer by any stretch, but I've never had a problem with her voice. Vocally, she's both distinctive and sexy. Works for me!

midnightmover said:

By strange coincidence I just heard "Umbrella" again the other day. Great song. One other thing struck me; something that hasn't been mentioned so I'll throw it in. Rihanna's much-maligned voice actually has a quite a sexy quality to it. I don't know how many studio tricks they use to cover her technical inadequacies, but the basic tone and intonation is sexy. Always a useful quality in pop music.

Great song - well written as far as I'm concerned.

The Dream and Tricky have done a lot of awesome work with Rihanna including Love Without Tragedy/Mother Mary and Breakin Dishes!!

It's her voice that makes so many of these songs - it's unique and definately sexy.

katamari said:

luv4u said:

[img:$uid]http://i41.tinypic.com/25jbes3.jpg[/img:$uid]

10000Degrees said:

katamari said:

I'm sorry, I just HAVE to say something on THIS.

LMFAO @ these grand Gloria Estefan reaches.

Rihanna is NOT a songwriter on board or full stop. She CAN'T play instruments. And people don't believe that she's a poor technical singer because they don't like the sound (or rather, the tone) of her voice. They believe that she is a poor technical singer because she is one and it's evident. She's off-pitch half the time, has no breath control because she's out of shape, has no range (she bottoms out on F3 ), and her placement is hideous which is WHY her tone sounds so bad.

There is absolutely nothing going on in Rihanna's music that doesn't come from other artist's work (INCLUDING Beyoncé's) and none of it has any sort of individual stamp either, because she's not a musician in any sense of the word. ESPECIALLY Where Have You Been. And ROFL @ her lyrics not being cheap or lewd when "Birthday Cake" exists.

And it's a damn shame that a Prince fan would reduce his influence to sexual lyrical content (not that there is ANYTHING wrong with that in and of itself). Because that is the ONLY parallel between Prince and Rihanna besides the times when she's co-opted his hairstyle.

Thanks for uhhh, nothing that makes much sense.

I will say this - you attempted to disguise yourself as knowledgeable by inaccurately discussing technical musical points.

Please don't follow me in any further posts - we're trying to have a real conversation.

You aren't trying to have a real conversation, you're trying to sit up here and rewrite musical history. I'll follow you all I want.

And none of my vocal evaluation of Rihanna was incorrect (except her being off-pitch half the time - more like 90%), hence why you're unable to refute it.