Mariah Carey, Madonna and Janet Jackson

We lightly discussed the issue of ageism in the music industry before but it’s time to take a more critical look at the matter with a fresh perspective. As women over the age of 40 years continue to struggle to find their footing on the Pop charts, let’s highlight the core causal factors of this unfortunate situation.

It’s no secret that there is an expiration date on female artists in the music industry and that a metaphorical clock starts ticking against them from the moment they launch their relatively short careers. Typically, women are in high demand throughout their 20s but as they get older, pressure starts mounting for them to mature with their ageing audiences.

That demand for change only intensifies when female acts enter their 40s, before they are unceremoniously forced out of the markets that they easily dominated in their youth. However, although critics often attribute the ousting of those older women to the music industry’s natural progression, in which only the youngest and strongest survive – entertainment’s special brand of Darwinism – there are more sinister forces at work. Namely, the commercial impact of female artists in their 40s wanes as a result of ageism and sexism.

The first detrimental factor affecting the chart success of women in their forties is ageism. We’ve seen dozens of female artists gradually lose steam as they age into their 30s before experiencing a dramatic decline in their commercial success when they turn 40. As if labelled with an expiration date, these women suddenly become irrelevant to their primary music markets when they approach that fateful age.

Let’s analyse Mariah Carey’s career as we seek to understand this point. After being introduced to consumers as the innocent, MOR (middle of the road) girl next door in the early 1990s, the diva was reborn in 1997 as a sexy butterfly with a point to prove to her then estranged husband, Tommy Mottola.

Sadly, Carey’s experienced several personal and professional upsets at the turn of the century as her career seemingly came to an end. In addition to being labelled insane – her Hello Kitty obsession clearly didn’t help her cause – the public’s interest in her sex appeal began to fade and there were several calls by critics for her to cover her lovely lady lumps. What else coincidentally happened around that time? Carey turned 30.

Even when Carey found herself back in public favour with The Emancipation of Mimi album of 2005, she was still under pressure to “grow up” and abandon the mini skirts that made her a sex symbol just a few years prior. Since entering her 40s, that backlash against Carey has worsened as people demand a change of both her fashion choices and her music. Meanwhile, younger female artists, such as Beyonce and Rihanna, are praised for their skimpy outfits, despite Carey looking just as good as her counterparts at the age of 43.

Interestingly, the ageist ideologies that constrain Carey’s career weren’t as prevalent in the 1980s and early 1990s. For instance, Tina Turner was 45 when she shimmied across countless stages in leotards that showed off her famous legs during the Private Dancer Tour tour of 1985. We also can’t overlook Cher’s daring video for “If I Could Turn Back Time” video, which was released in 1989 when she was 43 – the same age that the more conservative Carey is today.

So, what has changed? How did ageism develop such a powerful sway over the careers of female artists when it was far less prevalent in a time when parents battled so fiercely against the rising MTV generation? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: We live in an era dominated by visuals.

The entertainment industry, specifically the areas of music and film, is the primary provider of visual products for consumers demanding a constant stream of fresh and exciting content. That demand affects everything and everyone, therefore placing an incredible strain on artists to constantly reinvent themselves.

Unfortunately, it is impossible for any act to keep up with the ever-changing trends in entertainment, and female artists feel the brunt of that pressure. Think about it: To whom do we look for the hottest trends in fashion? Whose music videos get the most airplay? Whose “hottest” lists in magazines gets the most attention?

That’s right, women are always in the glare of the media spotlight and they are expected to remain cusp of everything new, which seemingly can’t be done by ageing acts. Furthermore, the problem has been exacerbated as a result of social media, specifically on sites such as YouTube, on which visuals can be overanalysed by both fans and critics eager to spot every possible “flaw.”

For example, Madonna is widely regarded as Queen of Pop because of her reign during the MTV era and her rise to prominence as one of the first multimedia visual artists. Yet, even the woman who has reinvented herself more times than Bobby Brown entered rehab couldn’t fight industry ageism and her impact on the music charts has drastically declined during the last decade. Of course, Madonna is still world’s dominant touring artist, thanks to her army of devoted longtime fans, but the hits parade that defined her early career has come to a screeching halt. Yes, that was a subliminal joke about her singing.

This is where we weave ageism with the second reason for the decline of female artists’ success, sexism. You should have noticed by now that we haven’t mentioned how men fit into this discussion, so let’s get to it. The following comments may cost me my life. If you don’t hear from me within the next 24 hours, please call the police.

“…music is a product, women are used to sell those products and the primary target audience for media companies are men.”

Similar to all areas in life, the Western music industry is governed by pervasive patriarchal ideologies. In such a construct, the lives of women are controlled by men for the satisfaction of men. Quite simply, music is a product, women are used to sell those products and the primary target audience for media companies are men.

Almost every ad campaign selling cars, alcohol and even condoms seek to attract the attention of the male consumer. For example, condoms protect both men and women from the transmission of infections but the commercials only focus on the perspective of the former group. Trojan tag lines boast about how you (the male viewer) can make her feel good with the added bonus of a lubricant that gives both parties an opposite yet enjoyable experience. In other words, the enjoyment of women in sex is listed as secondary to that of men.

That ranking of a standard male viewer is also reflected in music. Male rappers (Jay-Z , Kanye West and Eminem) and singers (Chris Brown, Justin Timberlake and Trey Songz) only speak from a male perspective to maintain the homosocial bond of brotherhood. On the other hand, female artists seek the attention of the male consumer by giving him exactly what he wants – sexual innuendos, revealing clothing and enough gyration to stimulate even the most sluggish erection.

Even when those woman are speaking on behalf of their female fans, they never completely omit the viewer of the equation. This was exemplified by Beyonce’s “Irreplaceable” video, in which she kicked her cheating boyfriend out the house but cushioned the male-bashing by included a few scenes of her sensually posing in shadowy room while wearing a bra. Similar scenarios were painted in Carey’s “Shake it Off” (naked in a tub of roses) and Janet Jackson’s “Son of a Gun” (you know you saw the way she licked her fingers).

What a perfect time to mention Jackson because she presented a perfect example of the industry sexism at the 2004 Super Bowl Halftime Show. We’ve all sucked on a breast at time point in our lives. We’ve felt them, played with them, caressed them or simply suckled from them for nourishment. Yet, when Jackson whipped out her breast for less then a second at the Super Bowl, her career almost came to an end.

Jackson was blacklisted on several media networks and her music was yanked from the airwaves. In fact, the backlash against her exposed nipple was so great that she has yet to return to the top ten of the Billboard Hot 100, regardless of the quality of her music. Why did Jackson suffer in such a horrible way? Women’s bodies, especially those of black women, are sexualised and objectified in accordance to the rules of men, and they are not allowed to control how their sexuality is expressed. Remember, as I noted before, women are used to sell products on terms set by men.

So, Jackson broke the rules and paid the price. That is also the case with other women, especially those in their late 30s and older. Men, however, rarely face similar issues, thus reinforcing the sexist double standard. Ask yourselves why Jay-Z can grab his crotch or LL Cool J can perform shirtless without creating an international media firestorm. Also, is Mick Jagger of The Rolling Stones ever slammed for his onstage sexual antics when he places a microphone down his pants?

Ageism and sexism converge in various ways, especially when the chart performance of women over 40 is assessed. As we expand on this point, let’s review a popular myth stemming from the joint ideologies. By myth, I’m not referring to the tale of Christina Aguilera’s supposed 4 octave vocal range. Instead, I’m discussing the common symbolic narratives that uphold both systems.

Quite simply, when men age, they are viewed as wise and seasoned but women are only considered old. Those opposing perspectives, ladies and gentlemen, support both ageism and sexism. In the music industry, this is typified by the way older male artists lose far less fans than their female counterparts as they age because they were primarily judged on the basis of their music instead of how they look.

R. Kelly provides a paradoxical example of an artist who both supports and negates this point. Later this year, the King of R&B will release his Black Panties album and none of his longtime fans have questioned the name of the record because he has always been known for his raunchy tunes. Could Carey or Toni Braxton get away with the same title? Kelly did, however, receive some heat for working with 2 Chainz on the lead single “My Story” and singing about his hoes because “he is too old for that mess.”

Still, few men north of 40 in the music industry are accosted for crafting “immature” music and their visuals are almost never judged. Women clearly aren’t as fortunate, and they are repeatedly blasted for not “acting their age” because they are “old enough to be someone’s mother.” By the way, those were all comments made by your fellow readers of The Lava Lizard.

How do some women avoid the pressures of ageism and sexism? The only way to dodge both bullets is to undergo a complete artistic rebirth. Although they many never score another hit single on the Hot 100, women who succumb to the will of the patriarchy by covering their bodies and singing music targeting the conservative Adult Contemporary market can actually sell albums. If you need proof then look at the discographies of Sade and Celine Dion.

In conclusion, ageism and sexism have a negative impact on the commercial relevance of female artists in their 40s. Although they can still enjoy positive returns from longtime fans on the touring circuits, they rarely mirror that success on the charts as a result of patriarchal pressures on their careers.

Male artists, on the other hand, almost never encounter such problems and continue to reap the benefits of those glaring double standards. In a visual world where women’s bodies are sexualised and objectified, their brands lose value with age and their products are demanded as much as spoiled milk. Well, that’s if they refuse to “grow up.”

Read more: Expired: Ageism, Sexism & Women in the Music Industry http://thelavalizard.com/2013/08/expired-music-industry-sexism-ageism/#ixzz2arJR4dtq
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SoulAlive said:

The guys in the Rolling Stones are in their 70s (if I'm not mistaken) and nobody criticizes them for continuing to do their thing.But if a woman keeps going,they say she needs to hang it up and retire sexism and ageism really affects the women in the music industry

People all over the internet made fun of The Spice Girls for being old when they performed at the Olympics last summer, and the oldest was only 40.

Video did a lot to destroy alot of common sense in the industry.

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But in all honesty pop music is a young persons thing. If you're one of the rarities on this forum that still enjoys some pop music (I count myself as one) at an advanced age (over 35) then you know that it's not common. And we all have to admit that it doesn't talk to us the way it used to and I don't think quality is the only deciding factor.

Part of Janet's SB backlash had alot to do with her last name and the fact that she was used as a scapegoat for alot of her brother's controversies. The fact that this year's SB was overlysexual and explicit but still received positive reviews speaks volumes about the hyprocrisy of this country when it comes to issues such as this. If your going to make an example out of someone then do it EVERY time the issue is brought up.

******************************

I agree with the article but I also think if you reached Janet Jackson and Mariah Carey heights why would you still need to show your ass at 40? It just seems desperate to compete with a certain era of acts that are beneath you in the first place. What are you trying to prove? You have the credibility, the classics, and more than what 99 percent of the acts out now can say. Thats just my 2 cents. I think women in their positions can still be sexy without losing who they are as "artists". In my opinion they should focus more on pushing themselves creatively and be more open to different things instead of feeling restrained to forgettable formulaic songs just for a hit.

Isn't there ageism with male performers? Would Carlos Santana or Tony Bennett have hit records without doing duets with young popular acts or Isley Brothers without the "Mr. Biggs" character? Most likely not. When Van Halen released an album last year, did the Top 40 stations play it? No, there were no guest singers or rappers on it. Does Rod Stewart or Paul McCartney have hit singles with new releases? Although, Rod's American Songbook albums sold well, they mainly sold to an middle aged audience, not a young one. It wasn't because of any radio airplay. Same with Lionel Richie's recent country album. He went on the Home Shopping Network to promote it.

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Whenever The Rolling Stones do a tour, there always jokes about "Geritol/AARP Tour" or they have to come out in wheelchairs and oxygen tanks. I think the ageism is more with mainstream hit radio, and it's pretty much always been that way. You don't really hear anyone telling Bonnie Raitt, Kiri Te Kanawa, Mavis Staples, Grace Jones (who probably dresses more out there than Madonna, Mariah, & Cher), or Shirley Ceasar to retire. Magazines praise Betty LaVette. None of them were really Top 40 radio hit acts. That's probably the difference.

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Sexism exists in society in general, so I don't know why there would be an exception in entertainment.

[Edited 8/2/13 18:30pm]

Ridiculous.

Two words...Tina Turner
The woman didn't achieve "Pop Star" status until she was well over 40.
But the Private Dancer album wasn't aimed at the youth market in the first place.
The material was appropriate for adults like herself and was still quite successful.

I guess for the 3 the article focuses on, this boils down to a simple question.
Do you want to have a long term career (and do you have the talent to actually sustain one) or is the goal to remain a Pop celebrity?

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

MickyDolenz said:

Isn't there ageism with male performers? Would Carlos Santana or Tony Bennett have hit records without doing duets with young popular acts or Isley Brothers without the "Mr. Biggs" character? Most likely not. When Van Halen released an album last year, did the Top 40 stations play it? No, there were no guest singers or rappers on it. Does Rod Stewart or Paul McCartney have hit singles with new releases? Although, Rod's American Songbook albums sold well, they mainly sold to an middle aged audience, not a young one. It wasn't because of any radio airplay. Same with Lionel Richie's recent country album. He went on the Home Shopping Network to promote it.

.

Whenever The Rolling Stones do a tour, there always jokes about "Geritol/AARP Tour" or they have to come out in wheelchairs and oxygen tanks. I think the ageism is more with mainstream hit radio, and it's pretty much always been that way. You don't really hear anyone telling Bonnie Raitt, Kiri Te Kanawa, Mavis Staples, Grace Jones (who probably dresses more out there than Madonna, Mariah, & Cher), or Shirley Ceasar to retire. Magazines praise Betty LaVette. None of them were really Top 40 radio hit acts. That's probably the difference.

.

Sexism exists in society in general, so I don't know why there would be an exception in entertainment.

MickyDolenz said:

Isn't there ageism with male performers? Would Carlos Santana or Tony Bennett have hit records without doing duets with young popular acts or Isley Brothers without the "Mr. Biggs" character? Most likely not. When Van Halen released an album last year, did the Top 40 stations play it? No, there were no guest singers or rappers on it. Does Rod Stewart or Paul McCartney have hit singles with new releases? Although, Rod's American Songbook albums sold well, they mainly sold to an middle aged audience, not a young one. It wasn't because of any radio airplay. Same with Lionel Richie's recent country album. He went on the Home Shopping Network to promote it.

.

Whenever The Rolling Stones do a tour, there always jokes about "Geritol/AARP Tour" or they have to come out in wheelchairs and oxygen tanks. I think the ageism is more with mainstream hit radio, and it's pretty much always been that way. You don't really hear anyone telling Bonnie Raitt, Kiri Te Kanawa, Mavis Staples, Grace Jones (who probably dresses more out there than Madonna, Mariah, & Cher), or Shirley Ceasar to retire. Magazines praise Betty LaVette. None of them were really Top 40 radio hit acts. That's probably the difference.

.

Sexism exists in society in general, so I don't know why there would be an exception in entertainment.

[Edited 8/2/13 18:30pm]

there is definately ageism in the industry across the board for both male and female artists, but the females suffer the most. Take radio, for example. When I listen to old-school Rock & R&B radio stations (Pop radio seems more female artist friendly), the playlist is like 90% male artists on both. I think back on all of the huge hits females had on the charts in the 70's and 80's but when you listen to the radio, it's like those songs never existed.

kitbradley said:

there is definately ageism in the industry across the board for both male and female artists, but the females suffer the most. Take radio, for example. When I listen to old-school Rock & R&B radio stations (Pop radio seems more female artist friendly), the playlist is like 90% male artists on both. I think back on all of the huge hits females had on the charts in the 70's and 80's but when you listen to the radio, it's like those songs never existed.

Rock has always primarily been a male thing though. When there was the Album Oriented Rock format, I rarely heard a female act, maybe early Heart & Lita Ford every once in awhile. If you watch a hard rock, heavy metal, or prog rock band concert, the majority of the audience was male. They're the ones talking about guitar solos and things like that. You might see more females a hair metal concert like Bon Jovi/Motley Crue. Hair metal is a bit more pop based than regular metal and it's makeup friendly. Even in the early rock days, people talk about Little Richard, Elvis Presley, Roy Orbison, and Chuck Berry. They don't mention Wanda Jackson, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, and Peggy Jones (aka Lady Bo).

.

I don't think female hard rock bands were taken seriously by a testosterone audience. Women were a smaller part of the audience, so not enough to make a female band get the big sales like the male groups. It's like you don't see any female action stars except maybe in Hong Kong martial arts movies. In the US, there is no female equivalent of Swarzenegger, Chuck Norris, Van Damme, etc.

This is a rock chart from July 1981. There's only 3 female oriented acts on it. Kim Carnes is the only solo, The Pretenders has a female lead singer Chrissie Hynde, and Jefferson Starship have multiple lead singers and one of them is a woman, Grace Slick.

MickyDolenz said:

kitbradley said:

there is definately ageism in the industry across the board for both male and female artists, but the females suffer the most. Take radio, for example. When I listen to old-school Rock & R&B radio stations (Pop radio seems more female artist friendly), the playlist is like 90% male artists on both. I think back on all of the huge hits females had on the charts in the 70's and 80's but when you listen to the radio, it's like those songs never existed.

Rock has always primarily been a male thing though. When there was the Album Oriented Rock format, I rarely heard a female act, maybe early Heart & Lita Ford every once in awhile. If you watch a hard rock, heavy metal, or prog rock band concert, the majority of the audience was male. They're the ones talking about guitar solos and things like that. You might see more females a hair metal concert like Bon Jovi/Motley Crue. Hair metal is a bit more pop based than regular metal and it's makeup friendly. Even in the early rock days, people talk about Little Richard, Elvis Presley, Roy Orbison, and Chuck Berry. They don't mention Wanda Jackson, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, and Peggy Jones (aka Lady Bo).

.

I don't think female hard rock bands were taken seriously by a testosterone audience. Women were a smaller part of the audience, so not enough to make a female band get the big sales like the male groups. It's like you don't see any female action stars except maybe in Hong Kong martial arts movies. In the US, there is no female equivalent of Swarzenegger, Chuck Norris, Van Damme, etc.

While there have been women in pop, rock, and R&B music since the beginning, they were never taken seriously as a group until the 1980's. Sure, individual acts broke through (Janis Joplin, Diana Ross, Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner, Carly Simon, Stevie Nicks, Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart, Linda Ronstadt), but as a whole they were marginalized either as too lite for rock or pigenholed into their respective genres (R&B, country, disco). Even The Runaways with a teen Joan Jett and Lita Ford were considered a novelty act at that time.

Ironically, it was MTV that made it possible for female acts to shine brightly in the first place, yet it was the very format that reinforced a lot of the sexism and ageism we see today. MTV made massive superstars out of Madonna, Whitney Houston, Janet Jackson, and Mariah Carey, yet at the same time made it extremely difficult for other female acts who weren't photogenic enough for videos to break out. Think of people like Martha Wash who sang lead vocals on Black Box's "Everybody Everybody" and C+C Music Factory's "Gonna Make You Sweat", yet those videos recruited fashion models to lipsync the lyrics. At the same time, it made stars out of marginally talented vocalists who just happened to look good (e.g., Paula Abdul, Britney Spears, Jessica Simpson).

Truth is, there's sexism and ageism across the entertainment genre. (Just look at movies and TV; think of how Julia Roberts, who was once adorned as Hollywood's leading lady, has practically disappeared.) Having said that, it does affect female music artists more acutely. While I think a lot of fans are uncomfortable seeing Mariah Carey gyrating around like a sex kitten in videos well into her 40's, they would be a lot less uncomfortable about that if she were still putting out quality music, which she has done only sparingly since 2005.

728huey said:

Truth is, there's sexism and ageism across the entertainment genre. (Just look at movies and TV; think of how Julia Roberts, who was once adorned as Hollywood's leading lady, has practically disappeared.) Having said that, it does affect female music artists more acutely. While I think a lot of fans are uncomfortable seeing Mariah Carey gyrating around like a sex kitten in videos well into her 40's, they would be a lot less uncomfortable about that if she were still putting out quality music, which she has done only sparingly since 2005.

But Grace Jones is in her mid 60s and dresses like this. Mae West made the movie Sextette when she was in her 90s. Then there's Betty White today. Saying that someone should dress or act a certain way beause they're a certain age is ageism itself.

theAudience said:

Ridiculous.

Two words...Tina Turner
The woman didn't achieve "Pop Star" status until she was well over 40.
But the Private Dancer album wasn't aimed at the youth market in the first place.
The material was appropriate for adults like herself and was still quite successful.

I guess for the 3 the article focuses on, this boils down to a simple question.
Do you want to have a long term career (and do you have the talent to actually sustain one) or is the goal to remain a Pop celebrity?

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

I strong argee. But you know, the 1980's were a different time. At least in that decade, Tina Turner, Diana Ross, Cher, Grace Slick, and a few other then 40+ Somethings were allow to co-exist AND complete against the younger female artists of the time.

But I think it was around the early 2000's then the music industry (especially in the USA) starting promoting the "Logan's Run" like attitude than anyone, male or female, age 30 and over were passing their peak and were expected to start passing the torch ASAP.

I keep asking myself why is this woman(Linda Ronstadt) is not in the RNR Hall of fame? She can pretty much stand out on her own with any woman in there now. I bet jennifer lopez gets in there before her.

[Edited 8/6/13 13:14pm]

^^Is Linda not being in really sexism or agesim though? There's women in the Hall Of Fame like Aretha Franklin, The Supremes, The Staples Singers, Janis Joplin, Ruth Brown, and others. Anyway the Hall Of Fame is like a country club, it's whoever Jann Wenner and the other voters want to put in. You can kind of get a good idea by what kind of coverage an act recieved in Rolling Stone magazine as to who is more likely to get inducted.

It is Mickey. There aren't that many women in there. I mean Madonna, Blondie and Donna Summer(Don't fuss I like them too) before Linda too? So it's a fact Rolling Stone/Jann is the one who picks? If it is that's BS. This is what Don Henley said, which confirms what you said:

[Edited 8/6/13 13:26pm]

JoeBala said:

It is Mickey. There aren't that many women in there. I mean Madonna, Blondie and Donna Summer(Don't fuss I like them too) before Linda too? So it's a fact Rolling Stone/Jann is the one who picks? If it is that's BS. This is what Don Henley said, which confirms what you said:

Jann Wenner was inducted himself, so that should give you an idea of what it's about. There's many male acts that haven't been inducted, and probably aren't going to be. So I don't think it's about Linda being a woman directly. It's what acts the voters consider 'belongs' in it. But like I mentioned above, the audience for rock was primarily male, and the male singers and bands were more popular than the women. So of course there's going to be more male acts inducted by default. It's like if you go to a Mel Waiters (or some other juke joint singer) concert, the audience is going to be mostly older black people. Dance music like Donna Summer & Madonna has a more mixed audience. Donna was probably inducted because she passed away. She was nominated several times before and didn't make it.

Here's a rock singles chart from March 1985. Fiona is the only female act, unless you count We Are The World.

This is an R&B singles chart from the same week. There's a higher ratio of female acts than the rock chart.

JoeBala said:

I keep asking myself why is this woman(Linda Ronstadt) is not in the RNR Hall of fame? She can pretty much stand out on her own with any woman in there now. I bet jennifer lopez gets in there before her.

[Edited 8/6/13 13:14pm]

whitechocolatebrotha said:

JoeBala said:

I keep asking myself why is this woman(Linda Ronstadt) is not in the RNR Hall of fame? She can pretty much stand out on her own with any woman in there now. I bet jennifer lopez gets in there before her.

[Edited 8/6/13 13:14pm]

whitechocolatebrotha said:

whitechocolatebrotha said:

My computer must be acting up or it's the website, but anyway, just wanted 2 add that Ronstadt not only began her career in Folk/Country formats, but also very effectively infused her now 40+ years in music with Pop, Rock, New Wave, Jazz, Spanish and Opera stylings. In other words, when did the music stop becoming about "the music" and focusing more on "age" and gender?" It's human judgement that makes it/keeps it like this. Before Hollywood got intertwined in the music, all we paid attention to was "the music." Back in the day, it didn't matter what you looked like, how old you were, etc...NOW, it's all "people" seem 2b wrapped up in. Intelligent people respect their elders and said elders' contribution(s) to "music." Rondstadt can 'sing." Rhihanna and the rest of these "no talents" will all fall off in due time. As for Mariah...she's skilled, musical and a legend. She can also wear what she "likes." It's no one else's business but her own.

[Edited 8/6/13 17:13pm]

[Edited 8/6/13 17:19pm]

I guess James Brown and Cher really sum it up...it's a man's world.

mikematronik said:

I guess James Brown and Cher really sum it up...it's a man's world.

I disagree. I don't think it's a "man's world" so much as it's a very "critical" world and sadly, the critique stems from droves of insecure, jealous, untalented and generally hateful people. We're ALL going to be old one day and I'm sure that the "smarter" aging population will look back and say "I remember WHEN." To be ageist is simply "stupid." Age does not equate with one's ability to be talented. Or at least, it shouldn't. Look at Jimmy Scott, for example. Although he is of the male gender, success eluded him for years until he was in his sixties and seventies. Same with Shirley Horn. She didn't win her first Grammy award until she was well into her sixties ("I Remember Miles" on Verve.) Like I always say, u wanna "hate?"...Look in the mirror and start right THERE. That's where all hate, all judgement, all insecurities, jealousies, ill wills stem from.

I agree with you.

Age is transversal issue on all human activities. I'm 31. A few months ago, I've had some moments were I felt some ageism.

This entire issue reminds me of another song. One written by John Lennon.

whitechocolatebrotha said:

My computer must be acting up or it's the website, but anyway, just wanted 2 add that Ronstadt not only began her career in Folk/Country formats, but also very effectively infused her now 40+ years in music with Pop, Rock, New Wave, Jazz, Spanish and Opera stylings. In other words, when did the music stop becoming about "the music" and focusing more on "age" and gender?" It's human judgement that makes it/keeps it like this. Before Hollywood got intertwined in the music, all we paid attention to was "the music." Back in the day, it didn't matter what you looked like, how old you were, etc...NOW, it's all "people" seem 2b wrapped up in. Intelligent people respect their elders and said elders' contribution(s) to "music." Rondstadt can 'sing." Rhihanna and the rest of these "no talents" will all fall off in due time. As for Mariah...she's skilled, musical and a legend. She can also wear what she "likes." It's no one else's business but her own.

Here, Here! Now that's what I'm talking about.

I think Hollywood has always been in the music scene (in the US)? There was the popularity of musicals. They also made soundies & Scopitones (early music videos), put music stars in movies like The Girl Can't Help It and Get Yourself A College Girl, and making movies around music acts like The Beatles & Elvis. Looks were somewhat important. How do you think Tiger Beat magazine remained in business since the 1960's?

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