mjscarousal said:

kitbradley said:

When your main competition are media hogs like Beyonce and Rhianna who continuously regurgitate the same, hideous, techno/pop-dance drudge, Mimi has absolutely no reason to be serious with her music. The general public isn't interested in women who can SANG. Those days are long gone. They only care about the beat and what so and so is wearing. If Mimi goes back to basics, people are going to label her as "boring" and "old-fashioned", just like they did in the beginning when she was a serious singer. I remember back in the early 90's people were complaining, "She's so dull. She just stands there and sings", like that was such a horrible thing to do instead of bouncing around, spinning on her head, and lip-synching like her peers. Now, that she is acting like her peers, people are complaining about that.


By singing dumb, forgettable songs featuring the rapper of the month, she's giving the public and the label exacltly what they want, except her drudge won't sell as well because she's not 25 anymore. Record Execs decide what they are going to feed us. When (if) the record industry decides they want to go back to music with substance and make the voice the center of attention, only then will Mimi be forced to go back to basics and to take her craft seriously again.

Chante Moore, who should be Mimi's real competition, is releasing a CD later this month. I'm sure she will actually be singing grown-up music with substance. I'd be surprised if the album even charts. The general public just don't want to hear music like that anymore.

[Edited 7/6/13 21:03pm]

I see your point but I kinda disagree. I think the general public feeds into what is being shoved down their ears. They rely on the industry to tell them what music they should listen to. If the industry chooses to only support and push artists that make gimmicky music then the other artists that make artistic music is never going to be seen or exposed. How are people going to like an artist or a certain type of music if they have never been exposed to it? I think this point has some truth to it but I think the industry itself has more to do with that. They control who gets the hits, what songs get consistent radio spins, what artist gets proper promotion etc. There is more to this arguement besides the fact that "some might prefer dance music/ gimmicky music" If the radio and industry is just pushing Rihanna and Beyonce's TYPE of music then artists like Janelle Monae or Chante Moore dont have a chance because that is not the type of music the industry is pushing. Therefore, it would be much harder for the general public to be exposed to their music. That doesnt necessarily mean that the general public is not interested in that type of music.

To me, music is not even about music anymore. Its about image and marketing.

Agree with this too.

mjscarousal said:

lastdecember said:

oh that is SO SO TRUE had this debate with someone the other day, and i know its a whole other topic, but i had to school them on the switch from albums to cd to digital and its not so much the loss in quality of sound, which i know the average person doesnt give a shit about i get all that lol, but what is really lost is "who played on that record" "whos doing backing vocals etc" and things like artwork, and this person then tells me well "u download that from itunes etc..." and im like, WHO the hell has that time and patience, and also you are bringing so many things into the mix, with downloading your computer better be quick or you are screwed, then there is your printer the artwork the paper this and that, where do you store it, to me its not a bother, i got the new julian lennon this way cause its only digital, and printed it out made a nice book, but shit if you think that 90% of consumers are going to do this you are smoking is what i told him. Thats my issue, honestly i could say i played on the new Aerosmith album, whos gonna check?

As for Mariah i think people want her to be someone she just isnt, Elton John's new album is him and a piano NO BAND at all, something he hasnt done in almost...well actually hes always had some band behind him, Mariah is not going to make a record like that.

LOL!!! love it! Tell us how you really feel? lol

I agree... but I also think Mariah is just trying to be something that she isnt.

Just glad I have a brain and it actually functions. I dont feed into that crap. I dont have time to wait on a singer who just wants to make kiddy songs to stay relevant. I love Janet but thats why I didnt buy her last CD. I just cant support that. I cant get into it. I rather support an artist/singer who really wants to give me quality music whether their a new singer or an old singer. I dont pay attention to those singers who are stuck with what works for them instead of pushing themselves creatively.

As the resident Mariah stan (or lamb) on this board, I need to get my two cents in on this topic.

I watched her on the Macy's 4th of July program, and it looked like she was lipsynching "America the Beautiful", but she did sing "Beautiful", albeit not very well, and what was the deal with her sitting on a haystck on stage? At any rate, I was listening to my Pandora playlist the day afterward, and one of her old songs came up. On her old songs, she sings very strong on her regular vocals, but these days most her regular vocals are sung in a whisper tone. Has her voice really deteriorated that much? Or has she just lost confidence in her vocal abilities? I wonder if a lot of the lipsynching, the weird diva antics, and the forced atempts at being a sex kitten are covering up for a lack of confidence in her abilities?

Also, she seems to have been going gradually downhill musically since her Butterfly album, though Glitter is highly underrated and The Emancipation of Mimi was a decent return to form from her 90's work. But the slide has been noticeable over time. I believe what frustrates fans like myself and others who liked her back in the day is that she doesn't need to glom onto the latest trend or hot rapper/artist of the day to stay relevant. It's okay for Rihanna, Britney Spears, and others like them because their vocals are so limited anyway, but Mariah is still capable of doing much more than that. She also needs to act her age musically and get back to what made her a superstar in the first place, which is great ballads.

kitbradley said:

When your main competition are media hogs like Beyonce and Rhianna who continuously regurgitate the same, hideous, techno/pop-dance drudge, Mimi has absolutely no reason to be serious with her music. The general public isn't interested in women who can SANG. Those days are long gone. They only care about the beat and what so and so is wearing. If Mimi goes back to basics, people are going to label her as "boring" and "old-fashioned", just like they did in the beginning when she was a serious singer. I remember back in the early 90's people were complaining, "She's so dull. She just stands there and sings", like that was such a horrible thing to do instead of bouncing around, spinning on her head, and lip-synching like her peers. Now, that she is acting like her peers, people are complaining about that.


By singing dumb, forgettable songs featuring the rapper of the month, she's giving the public and the label exacltly what they want, except her drudge won't sell as well because she's not 25 anymore. Record Execs decide what they are going to feed us. When (if) the record industry decides they want to go back to music with substance and make the voice the center of attention, only then will Mimi be forced to go back to basics and to take her craft seriously again.

Chante Moore, who should be Mimi's real competition, is releasing a CD later this month. I'm sure she will actually be singing grown-up music with substance. I'd be surprised if the album even charts. The general public just don't want to hear music like that anymore.

[Edited 7/6/13 21:03pm]

your post would hold more weight if mariah wasnt a lip sync queen herself (she dont even dance so whats her excuse), she's also been making the same boring music featuring the rapper of the month for most of her career. im sorry but you cant blame the current state of music for mariah's bullshit. mariah has always been a stat stuffer, big sales,hits on the charts, but thats it.her performance on the bet awards was embarrassing.

lowkey said:

kitbradley said:

When your main competition are media hogs like Beyonce and Rhianna who continuously regurgitate the same, hideous, techno/pop-dance drudge, Mimi has absolutely no reason to be serious with her music. The general public isn't interested in women who can SANG. Those days are long gone. They only care about the beat and what so and so is wearing. If Mimi goes back to basics, people are going to label her as "boring" and "old-fashioned", just like they did in the beginning when she was a serious singer. I remember back in the early 90's people were complaining, "She's so dull. She just stands there and sings", like that was such a horrible thing to do instead of bouncing around, spinning on her head, and lip-synching like her peers. Now, that she is acting like her peers, people are complaining about that.


By singing dumb, forgettable songs featuring the rapper of the month, she's giving the public and the label exacltly what they want, except her drudge won't sell as well because she's not 25 anymore. Record Execs decide what they are going to feed us. When (if) the record industry decides they want to go back to music with substance and make the voice the center of attention, only then will Mimi be forced to go back to basics and to take her craft seriously again.

Chante Moore, who should be Mimi's real competition, is releasing a CD later this month. I'm sure she will actually be singing grown-up music with substance. I'd be surprised if the album even charts. The general public just don't want to hear music like that anymore.

[Edited 7/6/13 21:03pm]

your post would hold more weight if mariah wasnt a lip sync queen herself (she dont even dance so whats her excuse), she's also been making the same boring music featuring the rapper of the month for most of her career. im sorry but you cant blame the current state of music for mariah's bullshit. mariah has always been a stat stuffer, big sales,hits on the charts, but thats it.her performance on the bet awards was embarrassing.

I don't follow Mariah's career and never have done but I do recall reading she gets quite bad stage fright. See, you can be the most talented and beautiful person in the world and still think you're crap and ugly. I think Mariah doesn't have much self-esteem, to be honest. & singing on a stage in front of a huge crowd of people is probably one of the most frightening things most people can think of! If you spend an hour before taking to the stage telling yourself you're going to suck, then you are going to suck. I think that's what her issue is

TheScouser said:

lowkey said:

your post would hold more weight if mariah wasnt a lip sync queen herself (she dont even dance so whats her excuse), she's also been making the same boring music featuring the rapper of the month for most of her career. im sorry but you cant blame the current state of music for mariah's bullshit. mariah has always been a stat stuffer, big sales,hits on the charts, but thats it.her performance on the bet awards was embarrassing.

I don't follow Mariah's career and never have done but I do recall reading she gets quite bad stage fright. See, you can be the most talented and beautiful person in the world and still think you're crap and ugly. I think Mariah doesn't have much self-esteem, to be honest. & singing on a stage in front of a huge crowd of people is probably one of the most frightening things most people can think of! If you spend an hour before taking to the stage telling yourself you're going to suck, then you are going to suck. I think that's what her issue is

Yeah, that's been the story clear back to the beginning--she gets stage fright. If I remember right, she'd never played live in her life until her first national tour. It's not what she does. But if that's the case--just stop. Or get some therapy so you can perform without it having to be "perfect" and therefore stepping into a much worse kettle of fish because you're lip-syncing while you're supposed to be "the greatest voice of your generation (or all time, whatever the intro is that night)." Some people sing wonderfully but are never really live performers. Clearly Nillson ran his voice into the ground by the time it was all over, but he was absolutely beautiful early on. Hardly ever performed live. Yes, it's a different kind of career, but what she's doing now is just not right for her.

kitbradley said:

When your main competition are media hogs like Beyonce and Rhianna who continuously regurgitate the same, hideous, techno/pop-dance drudge, Mimi has absolutely no reason to be serious with her music. The general public isn't interested in women who can SANG. Those days are long gone. They only care about the beat and what so and so is wearing. If Mimi goes back to basics, people are going to label her as "boring" and "old-fashioned", just like they did in the beginning when she was a serious singer. I remember back in the early 90's people were complaining, "She's so dull. She just stands there and sings", like that was such a horrible thing to do instead of bouncing around, spinning on her head, and lip-synching like her peers. Now, that she is acting like her peers, people are complaining about that.


By singing dumb, forgettable songs featuring the rapper of the month, she's giving the public and the label exacltly what they want, except her drudge won't sell as well because she's not 25 anymore. Record Execs decide what they are going to feed us. When (if) the record industry decides they want to go back to music with substance and make the voice the center of attention, only then will Mimi be forced to go back to basics and to take her craft seriously again.

Chante Moore, who should be Mimi's real competition, is releasing a CD later this month. I'm sure she will actually be singing grown-up music with substance. I'd be surprised if the album even charts. The general public just don't want to hear music like that anymore.

You make very good points, but what about Adele? I would say she makes "grown-up music with substance" and the public went apeshit over her. She does have the advantage of being young, but she doesn't make music that's "young," nor does she present that kind of image. She just makes serious music that's honest and relatable.

I think now more than ever would be a perfect time for Mariah to make more serious and personal music without the contrived and "current" accoutrements (She would've been smarter to get it out last year). And according to "reports," that's exactly what she was doing with the new album. Then she goes and drops a bunch of remixes of her new single with rappers all over it.

I agree that her performances are trainwreck bad, and it's all completely her fault. She seems to have a very specific idea of when she looks good, and she just kind of holds that pose for the duration of the song. And she must have some major balls to stand up there and lipsynch the way she does. It's so obvious when she's miming, and so embarrassing to watch her try so hard to pretend like she's not. If you can only hit certain notes in a studio setting, with multiple vocal takes and good editing, you can't REALLY hit those notes. So why not write songs you can actually perform?

Her current videos are strings of short clips of her making a "cute" face and have nothing to do with anything natural or sincere, throwing any sense of continuity out the window. It's all about, "Do I look cute here?" I think people notice that and get turned off by it.

Also, her perception of what people want to see/hear from her is completely off base with what people really want. I remember seeing an interview of hers and when asked about her over the top, campy video whoreishness, she said "My fans thrive on that." HAH! When you have a completely warped self-perception, and an ego the size of someone whose sold 200 million records, I'm sure it's not easy to listen to what's what. But someone really needs to tell her.

[Edited 7/8/13 4:37am]

SchlomoThaHomo said:

I agree that her performances are trainwreck bad, and it's all completely her fault. She seems to have a very specific idea of when she looks good, and she just kind of holds that pose for the duration of the song. And she must have some major balls to stand up there and lipsynch the way she does. It's so obvious when she's miming, and so embarrassing to watch her try so hard to pretend like she's not. If you can only hit certain notes in a studio setting, with multiple vocal takes and good editing, you can't REALLY hit those notes. So why not write songs you can actually perform?

Exactly. First, she looks fine (not great, but good)--but she wants to look "perfect" so she has to artificially freeze herself--or throw a series of "cute faces." Look, she's my age, and "cute" and "flirty" don't work on people our age--even the good looking ones. As to her singing--you're right. Maybe she can't hit those notes on stage--so if she's going to sing those songs, she needs a "live" version that changes some of it--or, as you say, some songs need to be studio only. Like Prince, who has often done songs in his chest voice when he's playing live that were done falsetto in the studio--or other songs have never been performed live, probably at least in part because they just won't work for him.

EDIT: okay, you didn't say some need to be studio only. I'm saying that. But she also needs to write some songs she can sing, then--which is what you say. Good lord, what's wrong with me?

[Edited 7/8/13 12:30pm]

I so agree. When she was making pop music she was on top. Her reliance on these stupid ass rappers has poisoned her music. DITCH THEM!

I think the only reason why she's gotten away with making crap music for the past couple of albums is she is an Icon, one of the best selling artists of all time and she has yet to release an album that hasn't achieved at least a Gold certification. She maintains a strong enough fanbase to gurantee at least a Gold certification for every album. Because of that, at this point, no label is going to dictate to her what type of album she needs to record. Island/Def Jam must be satisfied with her sales because they have shown no signs of wanting to drop her from the label.

[Edited 7/8/13 13:41pm]

kitbradley said:

When your main competition are media hogs like Beyonce and Rhianna who continuously regurgitate the same, hideous, techno/pop-dance drudge, Mimi has absolutely no reason to be serious with her music. The general public isn't interested in women who can SANG. Those days are long gone. They only care about the beat and what so and so is wearing. If Mimi goes back to basics, people are going to label her as "boring" and "old-fashioned", just like they did in the beginning when she was a serious singer. I remember back in the early 90's people were complaining, "She's so dull. She just stands there and sings", like that was such a horrible thing to do instead of bouncing around, spinning on her head, and lip-synching like her peers. Now, that she is acting like her peers, people are complaining about that.


By singing dumb, forgettable songs featuring the rapper of the month, she's giving the public and the label exacltly what they want, except her drudge won't sell as well because she's not 25 anymore. Record Execs decide what they are going to feed us. When (if) the record industry decides they want to go back to music with substance and make the voice the center of attention, only then will Mimi be forced to go back to basics and to take her craft seriously again.

Chante Moore, who should be Mimi's real competition, is releasing a CD later this month. I'm sure she will actually be singing grown-up music with substance. I'd be surprised if the album even charts. The general public just don't want to hear music like that anymore.

[Edited 7/6/13 21:03pm]

LOVE Chante! And you're right. It probably won't even chart or sell very well. It's not what the market today demands sadly, kit. As for Mariah...imMENSELY gifted and talented. There's no one out there even like her, but again, she continually dabbles in Nu Skool formats that just don't serve that immense talent/incredible multi-octave voice. I still love her tho. She's amazing.

SchlomoThaHomo said:

kitbradley said:

When your main competition are media hogs like Beyonce and Rhianna who continuously regurgitate the same, hideous, techno/pop-dance drudge, Mimi has absolutely no reason to be serious with her music. The general public isn't interested in women who can SANG. Those days are long gone. They only care about the beat and what so and so is wearing. If Mimi goes back to basics, people are going to label her as "boring" and "old-fashioned", just like they did in the beginning when she was a serious singer. I remember back in the early 90's people were complaining, "She's so dull. She just stands there and sings", like that was such a horrible thing to do instead of bouncing around, spinning on her head, and lip-synching like her peers. Now, that she is acting like her peers, people are complaining about that.


By singing dumb, forgettable songs featuring the rapper of the month, she's giving the public and the label exacltly what they want, except her drudge won't sell as well because she's not 25 anymore. Record Execs decide what they are going to feed us. When (if) the record industry decides they want to go back to music with substance and make the voice the center of attention, only then will Mimi be forced to go back to basics and to take her craft seriously again.

Chante Moore, who should be Mimi's real competition, is releasing a CD later this month. I'm sure she will actually be singing grown-up music with substance. I'd be surprised if the album even charts. The general public just don't want to hear music like that anymore.

You make very good points, but what about Adele? I would say she makes "grown-up music with substance" and the public went apeshit over her. She does have the advantage of being young, but she doesn't make music that's "young," nor does she present that kind of image. She just makes serious music that's honest and relatable.

I think now more than ever would be a perfect time for Mariah to make more serious and personal music without the contrived and "current" accoutrements (She would've been smarter to get it out last year). And according to "reports," that's exactly what she was doing with the new album. Then she goes and drops a bunch of remixes of her new single with rappers all over it.

I agree that her performances are trainwreck bad, and it's all completely her fault. She seems to have a very specific idea of when she looks good, and she just kind of holds that pose for the duration of the song. And she must have some major balls to stand up there and lipsynch the way she does. It's so obvious when she's miming, and so embarrassing to watch her try so hard to pretend like she's not. If you can only hit certain notes in a studio setting, with multiple vocal takes and good editing, you can't REALLY hit those notes. So why not write songs you can actually perform?

Her current videos are strings of short clips of her making a "cute" face and have nothing to do with anything natural or sincere, throwing any sense of continuity out the window. It's all about, "Do I look cute here?" I think people notice that and get turned off by it.

Also, her perception of what people want to see/hear from her is completely off base with what people really want. I remember seeing an interview of hers and when asked about her over the top, campy video whoreishness, she said "My fans thrive on that." HAH! When you have a completely warped self-perception, and an ego the size of someone whose sold 200 million records, I'm sure it's not easy to listen to what's what. But someone really needs to tell her.

[Edited 7/8/13 4:37am]

Yes, I thought about Adele. But, you have to admit, she is the exception to the general rule in comtemporary music. And, as some have pointed out in previous threads, people are interested in her because she is a young, caucasian woman recording music that sounds like throw-back Soul music. Same with Robin Thicke and Justin Timberlake. These people stand out because they are not the norm. If Mariah, Beyonce or Chris Brown were to record the same types of albums as Adele or Robin, no one is going to pay attention or their music will be labeled as "boring" or "old-fashioned". There is definately that double-standard in the music business right now.

kitbradley said:

Yes, I thought about Adele. But, you have to admit, she is the exception to the general rule in comtemporary music. And, as some have pointed out in previous threads, people are interested in her because she is a young, caucasian woman recording music that sounds like throw-back Soul music. Same with Robin Thicke and Justin Timberlake. These people stand out because they are not the norm. If Mariah, Beyonce or Chris Brown were to record the same types of albums as Adele or Robin, no one is going to pay attention or their music will be labeled as "boring" or "old-fashioned". There is definately that double-standard in the music business right now.

And she's British. People love British girls doing the soul music. The fact that she's a bit rounder than the show business norm and drinks (or at least did--does she still) just enough to get interestingly crude but not so much as to be embarrassing--that helps too.

I love Mariah's voice but I hate her songs so... but This thread is like sick awesome, I enjoyed reading all them comments, you guys rock..

but speaking of her, not Mimi, but the british chick; ADELE is overrated.. She's exellent, but I don't get the HYPE!?! why her not Duffy for example? Duffy makes also good contemporary music that adults like to hear! (Whenever I listen to Rockferry I imagine this Royal Hall DVD concert where Duffy stands on her own and sings Syrup & Honey! And everybody sings along, and the DVD gets 20 million views on Youtube, and then Duffy gets 6 grammy nominations! It all makes sense )... Adele showed up during the right time, I'd like to say, she doesn't dance, she ain't half-naked, her songs aren't about sex (People take that as a positive thing which is silly because Sex has always been a true mature subject to write about (Hello Prince), while listeners today keep bitching about it...), she writes true stories that everybody could relate to in her songs, so why NOT? why not worshiping Adele and overrating her?! People got sick of Beyonce and Rihanna and finally they realized they want Quality pure music, Adele was just there, present, so she gave them 21... and just like that It became one of the best selling albums of all time... I seriously don't doubt anything about Adele's talent, but I don't get the hype... A voice alone can't make up for other things, We can't call Adele a musician for exmpl!.. And just like somebody said here, People hear what they like to hear... It's sad, well I don't feel sad now that somebody has talent like Adele is up for deserved praise, but It's sad to see media put her ON TOP of other female artists who also make better music but nobody gives a fuck, because there's ADELE instead.. fuck that.

[Edited 7/8/13 15:31pm]

[Edited 7/8/13 15:34pm]

Yeah, I remember all the press around Duffy when Rockferry came out, and I expected to hear the music (at least some)--and I never did. I saw a couple of TV appearances, but she never took off. I never bought the album, but I never bought Adele's either (actually, other than "Rolling in the Deep" I didn't like any of it much)--but clearly somebody did buy 21. And somebody's probably buying it right now.

Ouch! This doesn't sound good.

http://music.msn.com/musi...ews=816973

By Jethro Nededog
TheWrap

Mariah Carey is back home and on the mend after being rushed to a New York hospital Sunday night.

"Mariah injured herself while filming a video with Jeezy for the remix of #Beautiful, directed by her husband, Nick Cannon," the superstar singer's spokeswoman told TheWrap.

Bing: Mariah delays album

"She was taken to [a] hospital late last night, where doctors reset her shoulder. She is fine," the rep continued.

The New York Post, which first reported the injury, cites one source who said the former "American Idol" judge possibly tripped while wearing her high heels during the downtown shoot.

I hope she gets better soon. But then again maybe that is a sign from somewhere about her current career trajectory.

There are some great posts in this thread that speak to the heart of a music lover like myself. Mariah Carey's whole career is a reflection of what can be great and horrible about music and everyone has done an incredible job in breaking down her career and the music industry itself.

For those who mentioned Chante Moore I salute you. When I saw her live her voice sounded wonderful and she did not miss a note. Unfortunately for her, her handlers have never known what to do with her career. I was actually disappointed she is going to be on this show "R & B Divas L.A" or whatever its called. She should never have to pimp herself to get publicity.

As far as Mariah goes I believe she has massive self-image issues. I guess it must be hard to know you are over 40 and not going to always have your looks or the attention of the masses. So I guess she is milking it for all its worth even if she has to make a fool of herself lip-synching. Someone with a voice like hers reduced to lip-synching is a tragedy.

dreaminaboutu said:

There are some great posts in this thread that speak to the heart of a music lover like myself. Mariah Carey's whole career is a reflection of what can be great and horrible about music and everyone has done an incredible job in breaking down her career and the music industry itself.

For those who mentioned Chante Moore I salute you. When I saw her live her voice sounded wonderful and she did not miss a note. Unfortunately for her, her handlers have never known what to do with her career. I was actually disappointed she is going to be on this show "R & B Divas L.A" or whatever its called. She should never have to pimp herself to get publicity.

As far as Mariah goes I believe she has massive self-image issues. I guess it must be hard to know you are over 40 and not going to always have your looks or the attention of the masses. So I guess she is milking it for all its worth even if she has to make a fool of herself lip-synching. Someone with a voice like hers reduced to lip-synching is a tragedy.

Unfortunatley, Chante's problem was and still is she has crappy mangement. I mean, this is a woman who possess the ENTIRE package. Gorgeous, great songs in her catalog and can sing circles around all of her peers. No way she shouldn't be a megastar. But, again, you can have the talent and looks but if you don't have a great team to back you up, then, you will go unnoticed.

As far as Mimi, yeah, I definately think she makes a fool of herself with all of that posing, lip-synching and wanting so badly to be some type of Hip-Hop Goddess I think their are definately some self-image issues there. But, I just thank God she hasn't embarrassed herself to the extreme by performing on stage under the influence and conducting interviews where she was obviously impaired. She's still capable of making fantastic music (i.e, "Merry Christmas II You") and she's still with us. I am grateful for that.

[Edited 7/9/13 8:55am]

SchlomoThaHomo said:

kitbradley said:

When your main competition are media hogs like Beyonce and Rhianna who continuously regurgitate the same, hideous, techno/pop-dance drudge, Mimi has absolutely no reason to be serious with her music. The general public isn't interested in women who can SANG. Those days are long gone. They only care about the beat and what so and so is wearing. If Mimi goes back to basics, people are going to label her as "boring" and "old-fashioned", just like they did in the beginning when she was a serious singer. I remember back in the early 90's people were complaining, "She's so dull. She just stands there and sings", like that was such a horrible thing to do instead of bouncing around, spinning on her head, and lip-synching like her peers. Now, that she is acting like her peers, people are complaining about that.


By singing dumb, forgettable songs featuring the rapper of the month, she's giving the public and the label exacltly what they want, except her drudge won't sell as well because she's not 25 anymore. Record Execs decide what they are going to feed us. When (if) the record industry decides they want to go back to music with substance and make the voice the center of attention, only then will Mimi be forced to go back to basics and to take her craft seriously again.

Chante Moore, who should be Mimi's real competition, is releasing a CD later this month. I'm sure she will actually be singing grown-up music with substance. I'd be surprised if the album even charts. The general public just don't want to hear music like that anymore.

You make very good points, but what about Adele? I would say she makes "grown-up music with substance" and the public went apeshit over her. She does have the advantage of being young, but she doesn't make music that's "young," nor does she present that kind of image. She just makes serious music that's honest and relatable.

I think now more than ever would be a perfect time for Mariah to make more serious and personal music without the contrived and "current" accoutrements (She would've been smarter to get it out last year). And according to "reports," that's exactly what she was doing with the new album. Then she goes and drops a bunch of remixes of her new single with rappers all over it.

I agree that her performances are trainwreck bad, and it's all completely her fault. She seems to have a very specific idea of when she looks good, and she just kind of holds that pose for the duration of the song. And she must have some major balls to stand up there and lipsynch the way she does. It's so obvious when she's miming, and so embarrassing to watch her try so hard to pretend like she's not. If you can only hit certain notes in a studio setting, with multiple vocal takes and good editing, you can't REALLY hit those notes. So why not write songs you can actually perform?

Her current videos are strings of short clips of her making a "cute" face and have nothing to do with anything natural or sincere, throwing any sense of continuity out the window. It's all about, "Do I look cute here?" I think people notice that and get turned off by it.

Also, her perception of what people want to see/hear from her is completely off base with what people really want. I remember seeing an interview of hers and when asked about her over the top, campy video whoreishness, she said "My fans thrive on that." HAH! When you have a completely warped self-perception, and an ego the size of someone whose sold 200 million records, I'm sure it's not easy to listen to what's what. But someone really needs to tell her.

[Edited 7/8/13 4:37am]

she is exactly a studio singer. i use to really hate when people would compare her voice to whitney's,who really did have the greatest voice of our generation.there is always a excuse for her bad performances.if she gets stage fright to the point she cant move or sing she need to just go in the studio and make albums.

kitbradley said:

Unfortunatley, Chante's problem was and still is she has crappy mangement. I mean, this is a woman who possess the ENTIRE package. Gorgeous, great songs in her catalog and can sing circles around all of her peers. No way she shouldn't be a megastar. But, again, you can have the talent and looks but if you don't have a great team to back you up, then, you will go unnoticed.

I agree,Chante's career has suffered from poor management.I always wondered how things would have turned out for her if someone like Clive Davis (not necessarily him,but someone with his power and influence) had been guiding her career.She should be a major superstar by now.

SoulAlive said:

kitbradley said:

Unfortunatley, Chante's problem was and still is she has crappy mangement. I mean, this is a woman who possess the ENTIRE package. Gorgeous, great songs in her catalog and can sing circles around all of her peers. No way she shouldn't be a megastar. But, again, you can have the talent and looks but if you don't have a great team to back you up, then, you will go unnoticed.

I agree,Chante's career has suffered from poor management.I always wondered how things would have turned out for her if someone like Clive Davis (not necessarily him,but someone with his power and influence) had been guiding her career.She should be a major superstar by now.

Yep! Vocally, Chante is right up there with Mimi and Nippy in their prime. She really should have had the type of exposure that was bestowed upon Beyonce. IMO, her voice, her looks, eveything, leaves Beyonce in the dust. If I were into chicks, I'd be all over Chante like a bad rash! That is one stunningly gorgeous woman who can SANG the pants off of any man.

Cinny said:

What you have to realize is Mariah really does love hip hop

Yep, and Mariah has said her early records were because of Tommy Motolla's influence. As soon as he was out of the picture, she started doing more of what she liked. Columbia Records had nothing to do with her putting ODB on Fantasy. If she wants to make rap records and remixes, then that's her business, if you don't like it, then don't buy it. She isn't the only singer in the world.

.

As far as Chante Moore goes, her music is mainly Quiet Storm, so she would never have mass appeal, no matter what kind of management she has. I guess that's why she changed to a more contemporary sound on her 3rd album, to get airplay. Then releasing duet albums of remakes and gospel with Kenny Lattimore is not a way to get radio hits. Maybe Chante is happy with her career. Not every act is seeking Billboard chart hits as a goal.

MickyDolenz said:

Cinny said:

What you have to realize is Mariah really does love hip hop

Yep, and Mariah has said her early records were because of Tommy Motolla's influence. As soon as he was out of the picture, she started doing more of what she liked. Columbia Records had nothing to do with her putting ODB on Fantasy. If she wants to make rap records and remixes, then that's her business, if you don't like it, then don't buy it. She isn't the only singer in the world.

.

As far as Chante Moore goes, her music is mainly Quiet Storm, so she would never have mass appeal, no matter what kind of management she has. I guess that's why she changed to a more contemporary sound on her 3rd album, to get airplay. Then releasing duet albums of remakes and gospel with Kenny Lattimore is not a way to get radio hits. Maybe Chante is happy with her career. Not every act is seeking Billboard chart hits as a goal.

I guess we'll see what kind of career she wants when her new release comes out. I'm curious myself.

lastdecember said:

People bitch all the time about Prince's output, or certain artists in certain decades, like the Rolling Stones in the 80's or McCartney or Elton John in the 80's etc....but at least all of these artists at some point said "Go to basics again" though Prince never says those things we know he thinks them, MARIAH is freaking stuck so bad on herself its making me sick and i have dug her since day one, but honestly for over a decade now, its been nonsense, with the exception of the "change" with the GLITTER soundtrack where she sought of went a little left, she never has strayed from that blueprint which now isnt even getting her what she claims she has....SMASH HITS.

I caught about 10 minutes of the 4th of July show on NBC or whatever network, and there it was again, BS, even more now, the bullshit is growing as the music and charts totally evade her. This time her husband Nick was co-hosting, and bad enough he was in an all white Tuxedo looking like that dude on the 7UP commercials 3 decades ago, but he introduced her as the "Biggest Selling artist of all time" which is beyond a Lie, i heard it and went WHAT? even my mom said WHAT? and then introduced the song "Beautiful" as being a smash hit? really? where? I mean i dont care if people wanna HYPE themselves, at least make it somewhat truthful. Mariah is not even close to being the BIGGEST SELLING ARTIST OF ALL TIME, shes not even the biggest selling female of all time. PLEASE already

And for those who are caring, the new album was introduced as "Coming Soon" which is code word for "PUSHED BACK" sorry peeps looking for this album, its gonna be awhile

In retrospect, Marriah lost her edge since the Rainbow album and never got it back. In other words, Butterfly was THE last (non-greatest hits/best of related) album worth owning.

Mariah stayed on the hip-hop/r&b sounds for too long now. She didn't necessary had to go back to the adult contemporary & r&b/soul roots, but she could've gave dance-pop a good try.

MickyDolenz said:

Cinny said:

What you have to realize is Mariah really does love hip hop

Yep, and Mariah has said her early records were because of Tommy Motolla's influence. As soon as he was out of the picture, she started doing more of what she liked. Columbia Records had nothing to do with her putting ODB on Fantasy. If she wants to make rap records and remixes, then that's her business, if you don't like it, then don't buy it. She isn't the only singer in the world.

.

As far as Chante Moore goes, her music is mainly Quiet Storm, so she would never have mass appeal, no matter what kind of management she has. I guess that's why she changed to a more contemporary sound on her 3rd album, to get airplay. Then releasing duet albums of remakes and gospel with Kenny Lattimore is not a way to get radio hits. Maybe Chante is happy with her career. Not every act is seeking Billboard chart hits as a goal.

They could have taken Chante in a more Pop direction like they did with Nippy and Mimi. Or the Dance music direction like Beyonce. Anyone can have mass appeal if they have the right machine behind them. I didn't think Anita Baker would have had the kind of crossover appeal she enjoyed in the 80s and her music was R&B Quiet Storm. Nothing really Pop about her albums but they enjoyed significant success outside of R&B circles. Same with Sade.

Oh my dayz...just listened to 'Bliss' (again) off've the 'Rainbow' album...now I'm totally LUSHED out...

I've completely turned into a bunch of goo

kitbradley said:

MickyDolenz said:

Yep, and Mariah has said her early records were because of Tommy Motolla's influence. As soon as he was out of the picture, she started doing more of what she liked. Columbia Records had nothing to do with her putting ODB on Fantasy. If she wants to make rap records and remixes, then that's her business, if you don't like it, then don't buy it. She isn't the only singer in the world.

.

As far as Chante Moore goes, her music is mainly Quiet Storm, so she would never have mass appeal, no matter what kind of management she has. I guess that's why she changed to a more contemporary sound on her 3rd album, to get airplay. Then releasing duet albums of remakes and gospel with Kenny Lattimore is not a way to get radio hits. Maybe Chante is happy with her career. Not every act is seeking Billboard chart hits as a goal.

They could have taken Chante in a more Pop direction like they did with Nippy and Mimi. Or the Dance music direction like Beyonce. Anyone can have mass appeal if they have the right machine behind them. I didn't think Anita Baker would have had the kind of crossover appeal she enjoyed in the 80s and her music was R&B Quiet Storm. Nothing really Pop about her albums but they enjoyed significant success outside of R&B circles. Same with Sade.

Now I do agree with this because most people think you have to possess something special such as a special look or a special talent when it mostly has to do with backing and marketing.

kitbradley said:

MickyDolenz said:

Yep, and Mariah has said her early records were because of Tommy Motolla's influence. As soon as he was out of the picture, she started doing more of what she liked. Columbia Records had nothing to do with her putting ODB on Fantasy. If she wants to make rap records and remixes, then that's her business, if you don't like it, then don't buy it. She isn't the only singer in the world.

.

As far as Chante Moore goes, her music is mainly Quiet Storm, so she would never have mass appeal, no matter what kind of management she has. I guess that's why she changed to a more contemporary sound on her 3rd album, to get airplay. Then releasing duet albums of remakes and gospel with Kenny Lattimore is not a way to get radio hits. Maybe Chante is happy with her career. Not every act is seeking Billboard chart hits as a goal.

They could have taken Chante in a more Pop direction like they did with Nippy and Mimi. Or the Dance music direction like Beyonce. Anyone can have mass appeal if they have the right machine behind them. I didn't think Anita Baker would have had the kind of crossover appeal she enjoyed in the 80s and her music was R&B Quiet Storm. Nothing really Pop about her albums but they enjoyed significant success outside of R&B circles. Same with Sade.

But if Anita came out the same time as Chante, during which rap and hip hop influenced music such as Bel Biv DeVoe & Mary J. Blige, alternative rock, and dance pop had taken over, would she have had the same success? The same goes for Kenny G. There's always an exception or fluke that becomes popular, like Gregorian Chant albums or those Dirty Dancing soundtracks of oldies. If Chante didn't want to make dance records or pop, then she's doing what she wants, not doing something just to get on the radio or sell lots of records, which is what people on this thread accuses Mariah of doing by continuing to duet with rappers. Some of Santana's fans accused him of "selling out" with Supernatural and the albums after it. I think Sade is one of those acts who is more popular with albums than singles, at least on the pop side.

.

I don't think anyone can have mass appeal. If that is the case, then why isn't death metal mainstream? Some music just has niche appeal like zydeco or folk music. If you watch award shows like the Grammys, the non-mainstrem genres are generally not shown on the TV broadcast, because most of the TV audience doesn't really know or care about things like "Best Native American Music Album", and the networks don't want viewers to change the channel.

mjscarousal said:

kitbradley said:

They could have taken Chante in a more Pop direction like they did with Nippy and Mimi. Or the Dance music direction like Beyonce. Anyone can have mass appeal if they have the right machine behind them. I didn't think Anita Baker would have had the kind of crossover appeal she enjoyed in the 80s and her music was R&B Quiet Storm. Nothing really Pop about her albums but they enjoyed significant success outside of R&B circles. Same with Sade.

Now I do agree with this because most people think you have to possess something special such as a special look or a special talent when it mostly has to do with backing and marketing.

Exactly.Look at Alicia Keyes.It's not as if her music is so groundbreaking,original or mindblowing.She just had the Clive Davis promotional machine behind her.That's why she won all those Grammys and got all that acclaim.If Chante Moore had that type of machine behind her,she would be a superstar,too.

SoulAlive said:

mjscarousal said:

Now I do agree with this because most people think you have to possess something special such as a special look or a special talent when it mostly has to do with backing and marketing.

Exactly.Look at Alicia Keyes.It's not as if her music is so groundbreaking,original or mindblowing.She just had the Clive Davis promotional machine behind her.That's why she won all those Grammys and got all that acclaim.If Chante Moore had that type of machine behind her,she would be a superstar,too.

Clive Davis couldn't really do anything with Lisa Stansfield though. After her first album became somewhat popular, the rest didn't do that well in the US. 1 or 2 of her albums were not released in the US at all. Swing Out Sister's (not on Arista) career has partly lasted all this time because they are popular in Japan.