Cookie Monster. Without him, there would be no death metal singers.

free2bfreeda said:

the beastie boys 1981 hip-hop artist

That's not the Beasties, they're some actors that appeared in a video from their last album Hot Sauce Committee because MCA was sick. I think that's Elijah Wood in the middle. The actual members did not appear in any of the videos for the album.

MickyDolenz said:

free2bfreeda said:

the beastie boys 1981 hip-hop artist

That's not the Beasties, they're some actors that appeared in a video from their last album Hot Sauce Committee because MCA was sick. I think that's Elijah Wood in the middle. The actual members did not appear in any of the videos for the album.

oops!

and

[Edited 6/4/13 12:11pm]

MickyDolenz said:

Cookie Monster. Without him, there would be no death metal singers.

[img:$uid]http://lifeisaroad.com/images/darkside.jpg[/img:$uid]

#1 Little Richard

#2 James Brown

#3 Hendrix

#4 Bootsy

#5 George Clinton

#6 Prince

In that order.

LiLi1992 said:

namepeace said:

^^^^^^

The question is not about name recognition in 2013.

The question is, "which musicians besides Elvis changed America?" It's a bigger question.

There is really no debate that a select number of jazz and blues musicians -- like a select number of rock and roll musicians -- changed America.

There are a lot of people who changed America whom the person on the street wouldn't know from a can of blue paint.

I am guided not by their recognition in 2013 only, main criterion - their importance for culture and presence in different spheres of American life at the time of their peaks: 50's, 60's, 80's.

Generally that figured into my list (along with other things). Mine goes back about 2 generations further than yours. As an older head that is clearly a byproduct of age.

I wanted to list artists who, as you suggest, not only changed music but left an indelible mark on American culture as a whole. In roughly chronological order.

you can be the best in your style, but you have to have a massive response from the public to be "changer" to the culture.

While I acknowledge that not every artist who changed music changed America, I disagree. Kool Herc couldn't get picked out of a lineup by most kids who listen to hip-hop today; but all he did was pioneer a sound and style that changed just about every aspect of American culture.

OK, if you are not satisfied with my approach, tell me how exactly people from your list changed America?

We just see things differently.

I already told you how Louis Armstrong changed America. But I'll try again. His music is the foundation for the jazz sound. Do you have a favorite guitar "solo"? Louis Armstrong (helped) cement improvisation and solos as staples of modern American music. He was one of if not THE first black crossover artists in America, and was welcomed by white audiences when Jim Crow was king. His music is used everywhere -- movies, commercials, TV shows etc. -- 3 generations after his death. He has one of the most recognizable voices in America to this day.

As for Miles Davis, I think you probably know. Jazz is America's greatest original "art form," and Kind of Blue is America's signature jazz album. He helped define the essence of American "cool." He's one of the most reliable pitchmen in American advertising. These are only a few things.

Ditto for John Coltrane. He was a respected "voice" in the Civil Rights Movement. He is also an iconic figure in American culture. He changed the sound of American music. These are only a few of his accomplishments.

Madonna and Tupac, I assume, you know.

Your list is very diverse, I do not even understand what criterion it is made.

Certainly, I'll explain. I relied on these factors (not equally for everybody)

1 They have a revolutionary impact on their style of music.

2 They have a well-known profile (commercial or artistic) in American culture. Founding Fathers or Mothers of musical revolutions can qualify.

3 Their profile spans beyond their generation/artistic peak/life. One way to judge is, of course, to examine their catalogue sales and presence in modern art and advertising.

All of the artists I listed had the first, and the second, in varying amounts. The third might edge out Muddy Waters and Robert Johnson on a given day, but they each get some credit for shaping rock and roll, AND a few of its greatest artists in particular.

Some pioneers of blues and jazz, which changed a lot, but were not very popular outside of their styles.

Agreed. Which is why I only named five. I excluded Duke Ellington who was the only other jazz or blues artist I may have listed.

pop artist who was not the first global star, not the first female star, not the first star of using sexual imagery, but has become one of the biggest.
and rapper who was also not the first and not the pioneer, but he was very popular and died at the young age of the shocking death. also, if you include in list Tupac as "rap music's Kurt Cobain", where Kurt himself then?

It is reasonable to assume that if I called Tupac Shakur rap's Kurt Cobain, and Tupac is on my list, then Kurt Cobain also changed America. Kurt Cobain changed America and that was settled years ago. If he didn't change America I wouldn't have even mentioned him in my post.


I do not follow the concept.

Hopefully you do now, even if you disagree, and that's a part of any thread.

my list though is built on very specific criteria - the popularity and presence in different (non-musical too) spheres of society.

That's really only one criterion. My only point is that your timeframe and reasoning from your FIRST post left me with the impression that if they weren't making rock music after the 1950's or aren't known by wider audiences today then they didn't change America. I understand better what you're saying.

Enjoyed the discussion.

[Edited 5/30/13 9:02am]

after Elvis

for better or worse

Bob Dylan

Jimi Hendrix

Sly

George Clinton

Nile Rodgers

Michael Jackson

Prince

Madonna

RUN DMC

Public Enemy

NWA

Metallica

Megadeth

Slayer

Nirvana

Mariah Carey

2Pac

Britney Spears

Jay Z

Beyoncé

[Edited 5/31/13 16:02pm]

IMO a musician who changes a country is a musician who you put instead of X in this question "What would it be if this country lasted without X?".

Prince is a legend and obviously we know it, but could we mention him in that context? I mean remember the 80's, they had Micheal, he swept everything... and was THE everything about music back then... so i think if 80's lasted with no Prince (basically that means lasted with no Purple Rain, no 1999...) Nothing ever will change.

So Michael Jackson had a pretty sick impact not only on America but pretty much the whole freaking world ... And i'll name him The Musician who Changed America for always.

After Mickey maybe The Beatles, i don't even know what is like to be in a early-60's concert in California watching these four kids making young girls heart melt so easily, but if i'm concluding this for a reason it's because ALMOST everybody talks about them, every magazine lists them, they're like the Stanley Kubrick of the music, they've changed things..

After these kids it'll be about Eminem, i'm not even kidding, the man is pretty much the biggest white rapper ever to show up in Hip Hop history, It's like white people were so sick with 2Pac/Biggie/Rakim and every other rapper, so they saw Eminem as this precious thing, and they supported him.. Eminem changed 2000's generation mentality, his skin color considering what Rap is for helped him to make an impact i believe...

Bob Marley also had an impact, in his own way, First of all he's one of the first musicians to create something called Reggae, and he went from Jamaica to America in hope for marketing this new sound, this new genre.. He succeded, not to mention he made smoking weed look so hot while singing songs..

Bob Dylan, Ray Charles, Jimi Hendrix, 2PAC and James Brown also.

I believe they could easily replace X in my question so anybody who'd take it will find it reasonable and making too sense to spending a hella time trying to figure out a good answer.

The earlier mentioned James Brown had a massive impact on the community, especially with his song "I'm Black And I'm Proud", "the one" groove that he introduced, and his showmanship which influenced the way artists presented themselves on stage. Young MJ studied James' dance moves.

-

[Edited 6/1/13 7:06am]

Mr Sammy Davis, Jr

sammy's determination, drive, courage and true talent definently changed the landscape of american music and the acceptance of racial diversity in american.

a big tribute goes out to Mr. Frank Sinatra the founder of the summit, aka; the rat pack. The Rat Pack often performed in Las Vegas and were instrumental in the rise of Las Vegas as a popular entertainment destination. They played an important role in the desegregation of Las Vegas hotels and casinos in the early 1960s. Sinatra and the others would refuse to play in or patronize those establishments that would not give full service to African American entertainers, including Davis. Once Rat Pack appearances became popular and the subject of media attention, the Las Vegas properties were forced to abandon segregation-based policies.

Yeah Mr. Sammy Davis Jr.

Aretha Franklin single handledly from 1967 to 1974 put a permanent place on soul singing from a distaff artist. She was the first Black woman to ever grace the cover of TIME Magazine.

Other artists that deserve mention are Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Nat King Cole,

The Jackson 5, Prince, James Brown, Parliament-Funkadelic, Tne Baech Boys,

Peter Paul and Mary, NWA, Jimi Hendrix

Lets not forget though the greatness of the BEATLES not to be forgotten is the man that produced them George Martin, he was the man of change a real friggin producer, also include producers Phil Ramone and ARIF mardin and someone hardly ever mentioned GUS DUDGEON the man that produced early Elton John stuff and that band elton had through the 70's blows anything away that ANYONE has ever been able to assemble. Phil Ramone and Arif Mardin who brought everyone From Blondie to Chaka and the Bee Gees and Billy Joel.

I agree with the point Namepeace and Shawny89 made as far as the criteria for artists that qualify for this.

It seems some of these choices are based off of the posters favorite or musical taste and not really artists that broke down barriers and culturally changed America. In other words, the thread is really no fun because some people are just choosing their favorites and not really being objective.

Some of these choices are laughabale...

SuperSoulFighter said:

^That was to be expected, wasn't it?

Yes but I didnt think some of the choices would be that extreme

mjscarousal said:

I agree with the point Namepeace and Shawny89 made as far as the criteria for artists that qualify for this.

It seems some of these choices are based off of the posters favorite or musical taste and not really artists that broke down barriers and culturally changed America. In other words, the thread is really no fun because some people are just choosing their favorites and not really being objective.

Some of these choices are laughabale...

2 that end.....I'll add a few more.

The Beatles

Elvis

The Jackson 5/Michael Jackson

Kraftwerk

NWA

Public Enemy

Eminem

Dr. Dre

The Supremes

Marvis gaye

Curtis Mayfield

Smokey Robinson

[Edited 6/3/13 6:32am]

RnBAmbassador said:

Aretha Franklin single handledly from 1967 to 1974 put a permanent place on soul singing from a distaff artist. She was the first Black woman to ever grace the cover of TIME Magazine.

Other artists that deserve mention are Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Nat King Cole,

The Jackson 5, Prince, James Brown, Parliament-Funkadelic, Tne Baech Boys,

Peter Paul and Mary, NWA, Jimi Hendrix

These choices in particular I agree with.

And while my appreciation for Prince is boundless -- he more than anyone else is responsible for my love of music as a whole -- he wasn't on my list. Can someone make a case for Prince changing America that I can support?

namepeace said:

RnBAmbassador said:

Aretha Franklin single handledly from 1967 to 1974 put a permanent place on soul singing from a distaff artist. She was the first Black woman to ever grace the cover of TIME Magazine.

Other artists that deserve mention are Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Nat King Cole,

The Jackson 5, Prince, James Brown, Parliament-Funkadelic, Tne Baech Boys,

Peter Paul and Mary, NWA, Jimi Hendrix

These choices in particular I agree with.

And while my appreciation for Prince is boundless -- he more than anyone else is responsible for my love of music as a whole -- he wasn't on my list. Can someone make a case for Prince changing America that I can support?

Really?

MickyDolenz said:

Cookie Monster. Without him, there would be no death metal singers.

Graycap23 said:

mjscarousal said:

I agree with the point Namepeace and Shawny89 made as far as the criteria for artists that qualify for this.

It seems some of these choices are based off of the posters favorite or musical taste and not really artists that broke down barriers and culturally changed America. In other words, the thread is really no fun because some people are just choosing their favorites and not really being objective.

Some of these choices are laughabale...

2 that end.....I'll add a few more.

The Beatles

Elvis

The Jackson 5/Michael Jackson

Kraftwerk

NWA

Public Enemy

Eminem

Dr. Dre

The Supremes

Marvis gaye

Curtis Mayfield

Smokey Robinson

[Edited 6/3/13 6:32am]

do not expect to see these two.
I'm not sure if they changed America, but very influential artists, of course.

Graycap23 said:

namepeace said:

These choices in particular I agree with.

And while my appreciation for Prince is boundless -- he more than anyone else is responsible for my love of music as a whole -- he wasn't on my list. Can someone make a case for Prince changing America that I can support?

Really?

I'm too biased.

Graycap23 said:

#1 Little Richard

#2 James Brown

#3 Hendrix

#4 Bootsy

#5 George Clinton

#6 Prince

In that order.

And where's Sly on this list?

HuMpThAnG said:

Graycap23 said:

#1 Little Richard

#2 James Brown

#3 Hendrix

#4 Bootsy

#5 George Clinton

#6 Prince

In that order.

And where's Sly on this list?

Opps.

Graycap23 said:

HuMpThAnG said:

And where's Sly on this list?

Opps.

and a double Opps!

sly &nm changed the direction of music massively. their sound in music influenced so many other musicians. plus they put the new energies into equality between men and women by performing together on stage as one unit of sound. (too sad 'bout sly's decline due to drugs) they were beyond great from 1967-1969 or so.

Eileen said:

namepeace said:

The question is not about name recognition in 2013.

The question is, "which musicians besides Elvis changed America?" It's a bigger question.

Yes, you are so right with this. It's a much bigger question and not reflected in most of the replies here.

[Edited 5/30/13 11:59am]

The difference between changing MUSIC and changing AMERICA is vast.

Some of the early pioneers shaped music that changed America.

But most game-changers musically can't reach the level of changing America.

MickyDolenz said:

LiLi1992 said:

I think that jazz is not mainstream enough for that.

In the US, during the 1920's to maybe the 1940's jazz was the pop music of the time. So it was mainstream then, especially with the popularity of big bands. If you watch some Hollywood movies made then, there was often jazz. Some of the "crooner pop" was jazz based as well.

[Edited 5/30/13 8:01am]

Indeed. And only a select few remain cultural touchstones for America as a whole. I listed Satchmo from the early jazz era(s) (20s-40s).

janis joplin opened the door for many other women of classic vocal styles.

her vocal style was beyond "unique". imo she was gritty and bold and very talented.

she showed women how to be beautiful in themselves imo. too bad she didn't have better people around her. she left far too soon.

I would argue that musicians are not being asked to change America anymore; beyond that,

they can't change America any more than the way Elvis, the Beatles or even Louis Armstrong

did, as NP convincingly argues in this thread.

*

Instead, it is technologists. Steve Jobs' influence has been the most culturally affecting force

I've seen since Michael Jackson - hell, I bet one could assert Jobs' influence has been more

telling of an ethos than what Jackson's music was for his (and the current) generation.

this is hard and probably going to be very long:

The beatles

Ray Charles

Chuck Berry

Little Richard

Sam Cooke

Michael Jackson

The Supremes

Phil Spector

Aretha Franklin

Stevie Wonder

The Rolling Stones

The Beach Boys

Thomas A. dorsey

bessie smith

Miles Davis