When I saw that subject line from Bob Lefsetz's latest email in my inbox, I thought he was referring to last night's Rolling Stones last minute show at the Echoplex here in the Echo Park section of Los Angeles. The venue holds about 700 and tickets went for $20.

Since I see no mention of it here yet, here'e the lowdown:
http://www.scpr.org/news/...head-of-t/

For the record, I personally think The Stones local ticket prices of $400-$600 outrageous. Btw, that goes for "Printz" and his $200 a pop shows also. That being said, if the market will bear those prices, more power to them. Just so that you don't think i'm picking and choosing, i'm seriously considering whether to drop $175 for Steely Dan in August. I have a perfectly legitimate historical reason for this having been introduced to live entertainment via tickets ranging from $3.50 to $20 max.

Without further ado, here's Lefsetz.
(I'm off to watch the Lakers hopefully get swept!)

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Can Kid Rock change the concert business?

His father sold Lincolns.

Where I grew up, there were no rich people. No bankers, no right wing titans ranting the poor were lazy and the government was taking all their hard-earned money. Some dads worked for the electric company, others sold insurance or held blue-collar jobs. The upper middle class were doctors and lawyers. And just beneath this tier were the auto dealers. We knew who they were, because their stores all featured their names.

We were all in it together. Sure, you could be unpopular, you could be bullied, but there was no velvet rope, no class parties or junkets that you just could not afford. And when we all saw the Beatles, we picked up guitars and started to play. And money had nothing to do with it, the music and the screaming and the energy drew us in.

Music is now the province of the underclass. No one smart is going to dedicate his or her life to a musical career, they might give it a year or two after college, but then they're going to hotfoot it to graduate school, they don't want to be left behind. The dirty little secret is most starving artists are not artists. They're just poor people who can't make it who call themselves artists. They're not at the bar discussing Camus, they're on the couch watching the Kardashians wondering why someone won't pay them.

So you're not gonna get a revolution from the poor people who do gain notoriety in the music business. Because first and foremost they need the money! This is their way out!

As for the businessmen who grease the wheels? No one knows who they are. The days of high-flying label titans are through. Clive is riding into the sunset and Tommy got kicked out and won't be let back in. No one knows who Michael Rapino is, the press never talk about the fact he's the most powerful person in the music business, since he wields the checkbook, and smart managers and agents were always faceless, knowing if they have a profile, their artists will fire them, just ask Terry McBride.

So Kid Rock gets a hair up his ass about ticket fees. And unlike the public, he's got power to exact change.

That's another thing about today's artists. They all blame someone else. "Who me coach?" They're slackers who believe responsibility is anathema.

But Kid Rock is different. He grew up in a middle class family. When he supports Republicans he thinks they're the close-cropped, reasonable, educated men of yore. But Nelson Rockefeller is now a Democrat, as is Ronald Reagan. Rock's values don't align with the Tea Party. And first and foremost he believes in giving back. I.e. his beer and clothing company in Detroit that employ locals as opposed to exporting the jobs to Asia and crying there was no choice.

So it's 2011 and Rock is on an arena tour and the fees on his tickets are $14.25. And that's just too much. He wants them down to five bucks.

How does he achieve this?

Via transparency. Unlike the fans, Rock is not stupid. He knows the money doesn't all go to Ticketmaster, there are kickbacks to buildings and promoters.

But rather than push the ball uphill, he decides to start with his own business. By lowering the price of t-shirts. Instead of the rip-off price of $35-$40, he drops them to $20-$25. His merch company had a fit. But, as stated earlier, the artist has all the power, Rock demanded the drop. And he saw sales go up...and it got him to thinking...

So Rock and his manager had a meeting with Rapino. The essence of which was, "You show me yours and I'll show you mine." Show me where every dollar is buried and I'll throw in my money and we'll start fresh.

And Rapino agreed.

Took the better part of two years to come to an agreement. The wheels of change grind slowly. But now the deal's done.

But not before Rock got another hair up his behind. Not only did he want the fee to drop to five bucks, he wanted all tickets to be $20.

Huh?

Rock's goal was to give back. To return concertgoing to what it once was. A regular habit as opposed to a vacation. That's how the business revitalizes, by getting people to the show. If it's so expensive they can only go once a year, they're gonna save up for the superstar extravaganzas, which must feature production as opposed to music to justify the cost, and ultimately everybody else loses.

But because he's intransigent, Rock then wanted no fee at all.

So a deal was struck. If you went to Wal-Mart, where they've got Live Nation kiosks, you could buy a ticket for $20, including parking, with no fee. Ticketmaster picked up the vig, furthermore, more kiosks were installed to handle the demand.

And you say that Ticketmaster is the enemy.

So what happened?

Across the board, onsales doubled or tripled from 2011. Blowing past everybody's expectations.

Irvine sold out in nine days. Came close, but didn't go clean back in 2011, they were 700 or 800 short.

Chicago went nuclear. 2011 was 16,000, they're probably gonna do 28,000.

Pittsburgh sold more in twenty four hours than the final number in 2011.

Boston did 10,000 tickets the first day.

St. Louis asked for a second date.

Sure, it's his hometown, but Rock has sold seven Detroits already. They put up four the first weekend, then three the next. They stopped it there.

Everything goes in the pot, drinks, parking, merch, Live Nation and Rock are partners. And if you think this is de rigueur, you've never sat in the trailer where the promoter shows you the two sets of books, his and the one he shows the act. And I'm not joking, there are truly two.

And there's no guarantee. If you want to revolutionize the world, you've got to put your money where your mouth is. How can we expect change without risk? It's intrinsic to the game!

But it's not only the ticket to get in, it's the beer to have a good time. Instead of double digits, beer is four bucks. And Kid Rock fans drink a lot, there's a lot of profit there, don't forget, it all goes in the pot, Live Nation and Rock share it.

As they do parking, which is also just four bucks.

And it's all paperless. Except for the very back of the pavilion. I mean why go halfway?

And there are a thousand platinum seats, not because Rock needs the money, but because he wants to combat scalpers. And season seats come out of that thousand, everything's on the manifest. And the first two rows go unsold, they're for upgrades for those in the back.

Sound like a good time?

You betcha!

Instead of buying a mortgage, you're taking a flier, you can relax, you can party, you can drink and flirt and...HELL YEAH!

And Rock is probably gonna make more money. Because in 2011, he averaged 11,000, this time around it's gonna be closer to 18,000.

But it's not about the money, it's about the fans. Not only paying back, but converting them, closing them, bonding them to Rock so they come again each and every tour.

Yup, the onus is on Bob Ritchie. He's got all their money, now he's got to deliver a kick-ass show that blows their minds and gets them talking. Because Rock knows you can't rely on radio, you can't rely on press, you can only rely on yourself. There are no middlemen, in today's world it's just the act and the fan. The promoter should not be the enemy, nor should the ticketing company. Everybody should profit, but it should all be in service to the fan.

And it all came about because Kid Rock is smart, he grew up in an upper middle class family, he knows it's about values as well as money. But artists don't seem to share Rock's values today. They might do a benefit concert, but they're unwilling to take any personal risk, they see the plight of their fans, but they're so busy climbing the economic ladder that they shrug their shoulders and pay no attention.

So what happens now?

I'm not sure.

Rock has opened the door. Will anybody else go through?

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/
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Oh yeah. There was also a Shuggie Otis gig here at the El Rey last night.


Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

[Edited 4/28/13 19:53pm]

Kid Rock knows what the fuck's up...

Very interesting. Not a fan of his music but it looks like he really cares and is trying to lead the way and do something for music fans.

Bravo Kid Rock.

I saw something about 3 years ago on 20/20 asking why concert ticket prices were so high. There was a lot of finger pointing artist blaming concert venues (Clear Channel monopoly), Clear Channel blaming greedy artist, and ultimately artist blaming (Internet piracy) fans. From what I could surmise between all the finger pointing, artist had a lot of latitude on the cost of their concert/merchandise. Its just folks being greedy and feeling of entitled. Fans should have buck the cost of highway robbery tickets years ago. I don't need to see anyone that badly for $200, $350 a pop... when hell freezes over and I can skate.

Back to Kid Rock...

I doubt those who already charg a couple of hundred for concert tickets will change their tune. Kid Rock may have given up & coming artist food for thought about how the want to interact, be fair to their fans. I recall music concerts being a large part of my dating life, the prices some of these musicians charge now lock out a lot of people from seeing a concert.
===========================

[Edited 4/28/13 17:43pm]

[Edited 4/28/13 18:37pm]

TD3 said:

Bravo Kid Rock.

I saw something about 3 years ago on 20/20 asking why concert ticket prices were so high. There was a lot of finger pointing artist blaming concert venues (Clear Channel monopoly), Clear Channel blaming greedy artist, and ultimately artist blaming (Internet piracy) fans. From what I could surmise between all the finger pointing, artist had a lot of latitude on the cost of their concert/merchandise. Its just folks being greedy and feeling of entitled. Fans should have buck the cost of highway robbery tickets years ago. I don't need to see anyone that badly for $200, $350 a pop... when hell freezes over and I can skate.

Back to Kid Rock...

I doubt those who already charg a couple of hundred for concert tickets will change their tune. Kid Rock may given up & coming artist food for thought about how the want to interact, be fair to their fans. I recall music concerts being a large part of my dating life, the prices some of the musicians charge now lock out a lot of people from seeing a concert.
===========================

[Edited 4/28/13 17:43pm]

I wish people did change their MO. The fuck you gonna waste $200-300 for a concert? They're (the artists) supposed to be entertaining YOU, you're not entertaining them. For $200, you should let me on that fucking stage, Bono!

[Edited 4/28/13 18:27pm]

Timmy84 said:

TD3 said:

Bravo Kid Rock.

I saw something about 3 years ago on 20/20 asking why concert ticket prices were so high. There was a lot of finger pointing artist blaming concert venues (Clear Channel monopoly), Clear Channel blaming greedy artist, and ultimately artist blaming (Internet piracy) fans. From what I could surmise between all the finger pointing, artist had a lot of latitude on the cost of their concert/merchandise. Its just folks being greedy and feeling of entitled. Fans should have buck the cost of highway robbery tickets years ago. I don't need to see anyone that badly for $200, $350 a pop... when hell freezes over and I can skate.

Back to Kid Rock...

I doubt those who already charg a couple of hundred for concert tickets will change their tune. Kid Rock may given up & coming artist food for thought about how the want to interact, be fair to their fans. I recall music concerts being a large part of my dating life, the prices some of the musicians charge now lock out a lot of people from seeing a concert.
===========================

[Edited 4/28/13 17:43pm]

I wish people did change their MO. The fuck you gonna waste $200-300 for a concert? They're (the artists) supposed to be entertaining YOU, you're not entertaining them. For $200, you should let me on that fucking stage, Bono!

[Edited 4/28/13 18:27pm]

Problem is that alot of people dont realize what the artist pays for, i understand the tickets are too high i hear that, but really outside of like Madonna charging a zillion dollars a seat not many are outrageous to what they pay for. Artists pay for basically everything on tour, they pay the road crew (unless your Prince), rental gear, they pay for the equipment at the shows, insurance, travel expenses, security at the venue, thats on them not the venue itself, people are misled on that, if a show runs overtime the artist is also charged for that. The artist pays for cleanup expenses, damage if any, all of that is on them. MOST of the ones that charge alot, say $100 + for seats, travel the world. I agree on the whole "charge" on tickets, but people never woke up on that, Pearl Jam spoke on that 2 decades ago and what changed? Ticketmaster still exists and does what it does still.

Does having a major sponsor have anything to do with ticket cost? It seems that artist who charge 20 bucks have someone like budweiser picking up most of the tab. The ticket price is what the artist keeps it seems... Is that right?

lastdecember said:

Timmy84 said:

I wish people did change their MO. The fuck you gonna waste $200-300 for a concert? They're (the artists) supposed to be entertaining YOU, you're not entertaining them. For $200, you should let me on that fucking stage, Bono!

[Edited 4/28/13 18:27pm]

Problem is that alot of people dont realize what the artist pays for, i understand the tickets are too high i hear that, but really outside of like Madonna charging a zillion dollars a seat not many are outrageous to what they pay for. Artists pay for basically everything on tour, they pay the road crew (unless your Prince), rental gear, they pay for the equipment at the shows, insurance, travel expenses, security at the venue, thats on them not the venue itself, people are misled on that, if a show runs overtime the artist is also charged for that. The artist pays for cleanup expenses, damage if any, all of that is on them. MOST of the ones that charge alot, say $100 + for seats, travel the world. I agree on the whole "charge" on tickets, but people never woke up on that, Pearl Jam spoke on that 2 decades ago and what changed? Ticketmaster still exists and does what it does still.

I don't believe the incurred cost equal what it cost for a band go out on tour, there's some price gouging going on for sure. I sure wouldn't pay three c notes to see someone lip synching either. SMH Luckily the musicians who I see in concert don't ask their fans to pay such ridicules prices... to each his or her own.

This discussion should remind all to support your local artist and musicians.

Kid Rock sells tickets for $20 because his fans won't pay Stones prices.

And sure, Ticketmaster will help Kid Rock sell $20 seats for the same reason they will help the Rolling Stones sell $2000 VIP packages.

Because: they get some money if they do it.

They are not a moral or immoral company, they are in the business of making money and identfying ways to do it. Not all artists can be sold the same way anymore. The price variance used to be, little gigs cost $7 and big ones cost $12.50 and they all had the same service charge of about $1.50 no matter how much the face price was.

Now it's like, $20 to $2000. How do you find your sweet spot in that big a pool?

Answer: you partner with a company like Ticketmaster to help you figure out how to make the most money. They do the market research and number crunching and come up with the formula.

Now if Kid Rock COULD charge a lot more and is taking a pay cut for his fans, hey good for him. But I have a feeling he knows he will get more bodies through the door at a low price and thus more money from parking fees, beer sales and t-shirts.

bobzilla77 said:

Kid Rock sells tickets for $20 because his fans won't pay Stones prices.

And sure, Ticketmaster will help Kid Rock sell $20 seats for the same reason they will help the Rolling Stones sell $2000 VIP packages.

Because: they get some money if they do it.

They are not a moral or immoral company, they are in the business of making money and identfying ways to do it. Not all artists can be sold the same way anymore. The price variance used to be, little gigs cost $7 and big ones cost $12.50 and they all had the same service charge of about $1.50 no matter how much the face price was.

Now it's like, $20 to $2000. How do you find your sweet spot in that big a pool?

Answer: you partner with a company like Ticketmaster to help you figure out how to make the most money. They do the market research and number crunching and come up with the formula.

Now if Kid Rock COULD charge a lot more and is taking a pay cut for his fans, hey good for him. But I have a feeling he knows he will get more bodies through the door at a low price and thus more money from parking fees, beer sales and t-shirts.

No one said anything about whether ticket prices being more or immoral. What we have discussed is when is too much too much and what we are personally willing or unwilling to pay. I've seen the Stones but they sure weren't selling tickets a 300 plus a pop, bad in the day. The $350.00 tickets in Soldier Field would put you in the nosebleed seats... I wish I would.

TD3 said:

lastdecember said:

Problem is that alot of people dont realize what the artist pays for, i understand the tickets are too high i hear that, but really outside of like Madonna charging a zillion dollars a seat not many are outrageous to what they pay for. Artists pay for basically everything on tour, they pay the road crew (unless your Prince), rental gear, they pay for the equipment at the shows, insurance, travel expenses, security at the venue, thats on them not the venue itself, people are misled on that, if a show runs overtime the artist is also charged for that. The artist pays for cleanup expenses, damage if any, all of that is on them. MOST of the ones that charge alot, say $100 + for seats, travel the world. I agree on the whole "charge" on tickets, but people never woke up on that, Pearl Jam spoke on that 2 decades ago and what changed? Ticketmaster still exists and does what it does still.

I don't believe the incurred cost equal what it cost for a band go out on tour, there's some price gouging going on for sure. I sure wouldn't pay three c notes to see someone lip synching either. SMH Luckily the musicians who I see in concert don't ask their fans to pay such ridicules prices... to each his or her own.

Going overseas is big cash, whether its a european artist coming here or vice versa. I used to always wonder WHY a-ha couldnt come her, i was seeing all these other bands like Simple Minds, Bananarama, and so many others who had nothing out here really, still come here and play shows, and when i talked with MAGS of a-ha in 2005 when they played a one off show in NYC, he told me that they always want to come to the states, but $$$ wise its not cost effective, we literally have to go in our pockets and pay for the tour overseas, labels dont pay, the venues rarely pay you, so when i saw them Sept 12 2005 here at Irving Plaza, the show sold out in under an hour tickets were about 40-50 maybe less i forget for that show, but when i spoke with another member Paul who has an Apt, in the city, he told me that they signed with Universal for a few albums but the money to play in NYC was dedcuted from their advance signing, now that may not sound like a big deal, 3 guys coming to NYC to play a show, but gear a road crew visas for everyone and whatever rentals, and it was a pretty penny for ONE SHOW. WHen they did there farewell tour in 2010 they came to the USA did 3 shows here in NYC and then in LA and Chicago and that was it, though everything sold out, it was just too much the shows in the states were losses to them, dont get me wrong that tour in 2010 ranked in the top 30 tours of the year, and they raked in some cash but thats not counting what they shelled out, so when people hear "Oh they made 50 million on that tour fuck them" they didnt make 50 million, the tour 'grossed" 50 million that has nothing to do with expenses thats tickets sold, nothing more. i think when u deduct the expenses for th 78 shows they did worldwide, they probably got a few million if that much. And this is for a-ha you can imagine other artists expenses. I mean props to Kid Rock for his challenge, but realistically he isnt in the same boat as a big name draw. Granted 300 for any ticket is nuts, i agree, but people pay it, they pay it to scalpers ALL THE TIME

"I've seen the Stones but they sure weren't selling tickets a 300 plus a pop, bad in the day. The $350.00 tickets in Soldier Field would put you in the nosebleed seats.."

The thing with bands like the Stones, Fleetwood mac, etc. is that a good chunk of their fans are older and probably have the disposable income to pay top dollar. Probably, they want to relive to good old days, or probably because who knows when they'll tour again. Also, I'm sure most of those super expensive tickets are bought by companies, for their clients or employees. Yeah $350 is nuts but somebody's buying it. If not, it would have be quickly discounted.

Younger acts, can't really pull that off.

I don't think Kid Rock is pulling the same audience or age groups. It's cool he can sell tickets at $20. Out of curiousity what did he charge for tickets before? Does he have much say over ticket prices or is this just clever PR?

I could be wrong , but didn't Prince a few years back do something with a fixed concert ticket price that was pretty reasonable?

[Edited 4/29/13 22:59pm]

Lot's of good local bands play for little or nothing. They perform covers too! Support local artist and the majors if you like.

No one likes bad business practices, unkept promises and performers who "nickle and dime" their fan base. Or acts who aren't worth it charging unreasonably high prices.

[Edited 4/30/13 2:44am]

I just find Lefstez really funny. It's the idea that it is somehow "revolutionary" that someone thinks they should maybe lower the ticket price when the shows aren't selling well.

He says something like "Oh you think Ticketmaster is the enemy? They are making it possible!" Yeah, they are partners in this enterprise and if they think they can make more money lowering fees, they'll do it.

I remember in 2003 when Live Nation made the lawn seats for its undersold shows all $10. I thought THAT was positive, I brought a bunch of people to see Neil Young that year who would not have paid $100 to get in. Too bad it didn't continue.

bobzilla77 said:

I just find Lefstez really funny.

I love Lefsetz.
Yeah, he's a curmudgeon and a bit of a one-trick pony, but his takes are usually very entertaining reads at least.

A follow-up from him concerning The Stones ticket prices.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Stones Tickets


It’s a disaster.

And it’s hiding in plain sight. All you’ve got to do is go to their site and see what’s available, your jaw will drop.

Enthralled with the ancient British rockers, the mainstream press has completely dropped the ball on this story. So busy reporting last weekend’s club gig, the sycophantic reporters refuse to do any…reporting. To see that the bottom just dropped out of the Stones business.

Yes, go to Rolling Stones

And click to “Get Tickets.”

Then pull up May 3rd’s gig at the Staples Center in Los Angeles, America’s number two market, home to more poseurs than anywhere but the Cote d’Azur.

First you’ll be stunned how seamlessly AXS works. We’ve been told for eons that Ticketmaster is an unbeatable champion. But AXS is faster, easier and just an all-around better experience.

So pick the May 3rd gig. If you can’t navigate to this page, stop reading this now, you’re too ignorant to get the points I’m going to be making anyway.

Select 2 seats. Don’t allow for splits. There are frequently single seats available in good sections for the most desirable gigs.

Select “Best seat at any price level.”

Then click on “Find Tickets.”

Whew!

You can sit right down front!

But it gets better!

You can still get 8 seats together in desirable sections!

Which means…

Sales are horrific.

It’s even worse for the May 20th gig. You can still get 8 seats together right down front!

How did this happen?

GREED!

Let me tell you how this works. AEG pays the Stones whether they sell out or they don’t, whether anybody shows up or the hall is empty.

This is a far cry from the way business was done in the years the Stones became the “World’s Greatest Rock & Roll Band.”

Used to be there was a guarantee, and then a split after break even.

But then Michael Cohl revolutionized the business.

And then Bob Sillerman rolled up the promoters and the acts had a field day, raping big time promoters for huge guarantees.

And the small shows got squeezed out, only the big ones counted in the mind of the public. And the Internet burgeoned. And suddenly, scalping became rampant. Even via the eBay company StubHub, never mind by individuals speculating.

And the game was rigged. There were so many pre-sales and holdbacks that demand seemed to outstrip supply in all cases. So resale prices went through the roof!

And until 2008, everybody was loaded with cash, the rich still are, they want to go to the show not to see it, but to say they were there.

And Mick Jagger is pissed these people have more money than he does. He wants to fly private and vacation without the hoi polloi, so he needs to rip you off, he needs to get all that money!

That’s what the inflated ticket prices are all about. Making sure scalpers don’t get the markup.

But this time around, prices are so damn high the public is balking, which surprises even me, because this truly looks like the last tour. But what we’ve learned here is the mania surrounding recent Stones shows has been created by the press, there’s just not that much demand, people cared more about Miley Cyrus and Beanie Babies. Yes, parents care more about their kids than decrepit rockers.

The initial shows last fall did well. Because of the mainstream press around the marketing angle of fifty years…

But just like the Cream comeback was an event in London and a dud in New York City, the bloom is off the rose, there’s no story, people just don’t care.

Do they care for $100?

A lot more.

Then again, the Stones have been doing weak business for eons. You could always get a ticket.

So where does this leave us?

In the land of Kid Rock. Where everybody scales back, where we have a reset, where even the execs take less.

Because what once was is no longer.

The Stones have jumped the shark.

And that means most of the other classic rock acts have too.

Furthermore, if you think the Stones are phenomenal in concert, you haven’t seen them, or are used to the Grateful Dead. They lock on occasionally, otherwise, it’s rough.

So if you’re against paperless ticketing, you’re a weasel. That’s what delivered $600 tickets, fear that the scalpers would take too much of the profit.

And if you’re against airline style variable pricing, you’re part of the problem too. Because if we had such a system, AEG could lower the price and sell out. But now they can’t.

Oh, they’ll find some way to fill the hall. The biggest stars paper, from Springsteen to Kenny Chesney.

And a loss is in the offing, unless the Stones give back.

But they won’t.

But maybe they will. Dainty dropped out because he couldn’t come up with the money. Maybe if AEG does a great job they’ll get a better, profitable deal in the rest of the world.

Yes, at some point, everybody drops out. The deal becomes too expensive. Not only for the promoters, but the public.

But this is what income inequality has wrought. Acts pissed that record sales have dropped have raised ticket prices so high the public has now cried UNCLE!

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

He's definitely right about ticket sales. Were I willing to spend $600 to see the Stones I could sit in the lower level three rows up from the stage right now.

But the thing is, the Stones are doing "mystery seats" for $85. You pay that and don't find out what seats you have until you show up. Could be in the pit or the last row, same price.

At first it was said they'd only have would be 1000 per show but they later announced there "may be some more" on the day of the show. I suspect they will release every unsold seat in the building at that price on the day of show. We'll find out tomorrow how it works with the opener in LA.

He will post a piece next week about how wrong he was and how brilliantly revolutionary the Stones are for adding the "$85 mystery seat option." They'll fill every seat one way or another. They are just weeding out the suckers willing to spend four figures on a rock concert before dropping their price, surely inspired by that amazing revolutionary Kid Rock.

The best shows are $20 and less (excluding Kid Rock, who is doing ME no favors).

These $10 to $20 dollar tickets are usually small venues with up and coming artists on the fringe of popularity.

The best shows are $20 and less (excluding Kid Rock, who is doing ME no favors).

These $10 to $20 dollar tickets are usually small venues with up and coming artists on the fringe of popularity.

The Stones show was, indeed, packed to the rafters by the time they took the stage. Wonder if Bob will publish his retraction.

phunkdaddy said:

Hell at the end of June Gladys Knight and the O'Jays are performing at a prestigious theatre in Charlotte where they usually have prestigious plays. Tickets start at friggin 146 dollars. Hell no. If they performed this show at a less prestigious venue like Ovens Auditorium ain't no damn way they would charge 146 dollars for a ticket. I can go to the Soul Food festival at the end of the month and see Lakeside,SOS Band, Morris Day, Angela Winbush,Midnight Star,and George Clinton for 27 dollars at Center City. I love Gladys and the O'Jays but I wish them and the venue luck in plucking 146 dollars a ticket from the public. It sure as hell won't be me. Legends or no legend 146 is way too much. Even the purple man didn't get that much from me on his Welcome 2 America tour. I got the 49 dollar seats and was fortunate enough to get a complimentary upgrade from the staff before the show started.

Tell'um phunkdaddy!

You bring up a excellent point about the price point of different concert venues. In the suburbs of Chicago they have a theater called Country Club Hills. There prices are with in reason in my opinion, price points for every ones pocket. We are going to see Dave Mathews Band in Indiana in June, our tickets - for two- were $180.00. I keep hearing this silliness about folks with discretionary income... I'd argue that's why some folks have discretionary income they know the difference between value and being ripped off. A fool and his or her money soon part... as the saying goes.

----------------------------------------------------------------

[Edited 5/6/13 8:07am]

[Edited 5/7/13 15:59pm]

Just bought tickets to Rival Sons for $10.01 and they're playing a small venue. Best spent ten bucks ever!

theAudience said:

When I saw that subject line from Bob Lefsetz's latest email in my inbox, I thought he was referring to last night's Rolling Stones last minute show at the Echoplex here in the Echo Park section of Los Angeles. The venue holds about 700 and tickets went for $20.

Since I see no mention of it here yet, here'e the lowdown:
http://www.scpr.org/news/...head-of-t/

For the record, I personally think The Stones local ticket prices of $400-$600 outrageous. Btw, that goes for "Printz" and his $200 a pop shows also. That being said, if the market will bear those prices, more power to them. Just so that you don't think i'm picking and choosing, i'm seriously considering whether to drop $175 for Steely Dan in August. I have a perfectly legitimate historical reason for this having been introduced to live entertainment via tickets ranging from $3.50 to $20 max.

Without further ado, here's Lefsetz.
(I'm off to watch the Lakers hopefully get swept!)

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Can Kid Rock change the concert business?

His father sold Lincolns.

Where I grew up, there were no rich people. No bankers, no right wing titans ranting the poor were lazy and the government was taking all their hard-earned money. Some dads worked for the electric company, others sold insurance or held blue-collar jobs. The upper middle class were doctors and lawyers. And just beneath this tier were the auto dealers. We knew who they were, because their stores all featured their names.

We were all in it together. Sure, you could be unpopular, you could be bullied, but there was no velvet rope, no class parties or junkets that you just could not afford. And when we all saw the Beatles, we picked up guitars and started to play. And money had nothing to do with it, the music and the screaming and the energy drew us in.

Music is now the province of the underclass. No one smart is going to dedicate his or her life to a musical career, they might give it a year or two after college, but then they're going to hotfoot it to graduate school, they don't want to be left behind. The dirty little secret is most starving artists are not artists. They're just poor people who can't make it who call themselves artists. They're not at the bar discussing Camus, they're on the couch watching the Kardashians wondering why someone won't pay them.

So you're not gonna get a revolution from the poor people who do gain notoriety in the music business. Because first and foremost they need the money! This is their way out!

As for the businessmen who grease the wheels? No one knows who they are. The days of high-flying label titans are through. Clive is riding into the sunset and Tommy got kicked out and won't be let back in. No one knows who Michael Rapino is, the press never talk about the fact he's the most powerful person in the music business, since he wields the checkbook, and smart managers and agents were always faceless, knowing if they have a profile, their artists will fire them, just ask Terry McBride.

So Kid Rock gets a hair up his ass about ticket fees. And unlike the public, he's got power to exact change.

That's another thing about today's artists. They all blame someone else. "Who me coach?" They're slackers who believe responsibility is anathema.

But Kid Rock is different. He grew up in a middle class family. When he supports Republicans he thinks they're the close-cropped, reasonable, educated men of yore. But Nelson Rockefeller is now a Democrat, as is Ronald Reagan. Rock's values don't align with the Tea Party. And first and foremost he believes in giving back. I.e. his beer and clothing company in Detroit that employ locals as opposed to exporting the jobs to Asia and crying there was no choice.

So it's 2011 and Rock is on an arena tour and the fees on his tickets are $14.25. And that's just too much. He wants them down to five bucks.

How does he achieve this?

Via transparency. Unlike the fans, Rock is not stupid. He knows the money doesn't all go to Ticketmaster, there are kickbacks to buildings and promoters.

But rather than push the ball uphill, he decides to start with his own business. By lowering the price of t-shirts. Instead of the rip-off price of $35-$40, he drops them to $20-$25. His merch company had a fit. But, as stated earlier, the artist has all the power, Rock demanded the drop. And he saw sales go up...and it got him to thinking...

So Rock and his manager had a meeting with Rapino. The essence of which was, "You show me yours and I'll show you mine." Show me where every dollar is buried and I'll throw in my money and we'll start fresh.

And Rapino agreed.

Took the better part of two years to come to an agreement. The wheels of change grind slowly. But now the deal's done.

But not before Rock got another hair up his behind. Not only did he want the fee to drop to five bucks, he wanted all tickets to be $20.

Huh?

Rock's goal was to give back. To return concertgoing to what it once was. A regular habit as opposed to a vacation. That's how the business revitalizes, by getting people to the show. If it's so expensive they can only go once a year, they're gonna save up for the superstar extravaganzas, which must feature production as opposed to music to justify the cost, and ultimately everybody else loses.

But because he's intransigent, Rock then wanted no fee at all.

So a deal was struck. If you went to Wal-Mart, where they've got Live Nation kiosks, you could buy a ticket for $20, including parking, with no fee. Ticketmaster picked up the vig, furthermore, more kiosks were installed to handle the demand.

And you say that Ticketmaster is the enemy.

So what happened?

Across the board, onsales doubled or tripled from 2011. Blowing past everybody's expectations.

Irvine sold out in nine days. Came close, but didn't go clean back in 2011, they were 700 or 800 short.

Chicago went nuclear. 2011 was 16,000, they're probably gonna do 28,000.

Pittsburgh sold more in twenty four hours than the final number in 2011.

Boston did 10,000 tickets the first day.

St. Louis asked for a second date.

Sure, it's his hometown, but Rock has sold seven Detroits already. They put up four the first weekend, then three the next. They stopped it there.

Everything goes in the pot, drinks, parking, merch, Live Nation and Rock are partners. And if you think this is de rigueur, you've never sat in the trailer where the promoter shows you the two sets of books, his and the one he shows the act. And I'm not joking, there are truly two.

And there's no guarantee. If you want to revolutionize the world, you've got to put your money where your mouth is. How can we expect change without risk? It's intrinsic to the game!

But it's not only the ticket to get in, it's the beer to have a good time. Instead of double digits, beer is four bucks. And Kid Rock fans drink a lot, there's a lot of profit there, don't forget, it all goes in the pot, Live Nation and Rock share it.

As they do parking, which is also just four bucks.

And it's all paperless. Except for the very back of the pavilion. I mean why go halfway?

And there are a thousand platinum seats, not because Rock needs the money, but because he wants to combat scalpers. And season seats come out of that thousand, everything's on the manifest. And the first two rows go unsold, they're for upgrades for those in the back.

Sound like a good time?

You betcha!

Instead of buying a mortgage, you're taking a flier, you can relax, you can party, you can drink and flirt and...HELL YEAH!

And Rock is probably gonna make more money. Because in 2011, he averaged 11,000, this time around it's gonna be closer to 18,000.

But it's not about the money, it's about the fans. Not only paying back, but converting them, closing them, bonding them to Rock so they come again each and every tour.

Yup, the onus is on Bob Ritchie. He's got all their money, now he's got to deliver a kick-ass show that blows their minds and gets them talking. Because Rock knows you can't rely on radio, you can't rely on press, you can only rely on yourself. There are no middlemen, in today's world it's just the act and the fan. The promoter should not be the enemy, nor should the ticketing company. Everybody should profit, but it should all be in service to the fan.

And it all came about because Kid Rock is smart, he grew up in an upper middle class family, he knows it's about values as well as money. But artists don't seem to share Rock's values today. They might do a benefit concert, but they're unwilling to take any personal risk, they see the plight of their fans, but they're so busy climbing the economic ladder that they shrug their shoulders and pay no attention.

So what happens now?

I'm not sure.

Rock has opened the door. Will anybody else go through?

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/
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Oh yeah. There was also a Shuggie Otis gig here at the El Rey last night.


Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

[Edited 4/28/13 19:53pm]

That is great that Kid Rock is doing this but I wonder why no one remembers P doing all those shows in 2011 at the Forum for $20.00 bucks.

Slave2daGroove said:

Just bought tickets to Rival Sons for $10.01 and they're playing a small venue. Best spent ten bucks ever!

I'll be seeing two excellent performers at a small venue in the next couple of weeks ( OHM & Allen Hinds ) and will be spending $20 (plus drinks), if that, for each show.


Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

purple1968 said:

That is great that Kid Rock is doing this but I wonder why no one remembers P doing all those shows in 2011 at the Forum for $20.00 bucks.

I caught quite a few Forum shows at that price.

The difference here I believe is that all the Kid Rock tickets are priced at $20 (with the option to upgrade), not just some of the tickets.

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

theAudience said:

purple1968 said:

That is great that Kid Rock is doing this but I wonder why no one remembers P doing all those shows in 2011 at the Forum for $20.00 bucks.

I caught quite a few Forum shows at that price.

The difference here I believe is that all the Kid Rock tickets are priced at $20 (with the option to upgrade), not just some of the tickets.

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

Yeah Prince only sold SOME. It would've been great if he had everybody pay only $20 for tickets.

I know a place where you could have gone 20 nights in a row and seen the following artists in order:

Toby Keith
Gary Allan
Alan Jackson
Zac Brown Band
Mary J. Blige
Brantley Gilbert
Demi Lovato and Austin Mahone
Styx
Lady Antebellum
Dierks Bentley
Bruno Mars
Tim McGraw
The Band Perry
Julion Alvarez and Los Invasores de Nuevo Leon
Jason Aldean
Kenny Chesney
Jake Owen
Pitbull
Blake Shelton
Luke Bryan

And never spent more than $18 on a ticket. In fact, you could have seen Alan Jackson, Dierks Bentley and Jake Owen for $10 each.

Those prices are for the upper level. But if you wanted to sit in the field box (lower) level, you still would have only paid $24 per ticket.

Oh, and in addition to the concert, you also get a full rodeo performance!

Timmy84 said:

theAudience said:

I caught quite a few Forum shows at that price.

The difference here I believe is that all the Kid Rock tickets are priced at $20 (with the option to upgrade), not just some of the tickets.

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

Yeah Prince only sold SOME. It would've been great if he had everybody pay only $20 for tickets.

We tend to forget that Prince's ticket prices for the "Musicology" tour were far below what other artists were charging that year.

RodeoSchro said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah Prince only sold SOME. It would've been great if he had everybody pay only $20 for tickets.

We tend to forget that Prince's ticket prices for the "Musicology" tour were far below what other artists were charging that year.

What were the prices though? I forgot.