JoeTyler said:

NDRU said:

This isn't really much better than what Elvis said. The differences are that a) you're declaring it to the world and b) I think you actually mean it.

since this thread is turning to the "grave/serious zone", I'm gonna admit that the 4eyed thing was unnecessary, sorry, in fact I used glasses when I was younger

but the Prick thing was not

overrated? to each his own, his music does NOTHING for me

and my verdict wasn't racist, at all

I wear glasses myself and I didn't give your use of the term "four-eyed" a second thought.

I do question your assertion that he is a prick. As I said before most people familiar with his career, even his fans, would agree that he could be difficult in his early years but he has definitely mellowed with age and today he seems to be a fairly humble and gracious fellow. I am not aware of any "prickish" behaviour that he has engaged in over the last ten-twenty years.

MarkThrust said:

You sound like me, after my first brush with Costello. I heard the first greatest hits - which covers a lot of the territory here - and I was pretty underwhelmed. After chancing on Blood and Chocolate - a challenging album for my age, at that time - I feel like I've grown with Elvis. Unlike Neil Young's 'lost years', Costello has jumped genres in a way that has emphasized and strengthened his songwriting. He's matured pretty gracefully, worked on improving his voice as instrument - and Spectacle has been a pretty classy show that I can't divorce, creatively, from his musical integrity & general eclecticism about music. Also, I love his later-career obsession with Americana.

Personally, I think ever since modern pop music birthed with the Beatles, despite his origins - Elvis Costello might be as close as we'll ever get to having another Cole Porter.

I haven't heard everything that he has done after 1986 (I think I stopped buying his new music around the time of The Delivery Man) but I just can't connect with much of it. I think that it is admirable that he is stretching himself and trying many different styles of music but I do not find much of it enjoyable. It may partially be due to the limitations in his voice. For new wave/pop or whatever you want to call his early music his voice is fine but when he tries to do other genres (country, traditional r & b, standards) I think his voice hurts the music.

MarkThrust said:

You sound like me, after my first brush with Costello. I heard the first greatest hits - which covers a lot of the territory here - and I was pretty underwhelmed. After chancing on Blood and Chocolate - a challenging album for my age, at that time - I feel like I've grown with Elvis. Unlike Neil Young's 'lost years', Costello has jumped genres in a way that has emphasized and strengthened his songwriting. He's matured pretty gracefully, worked on improving his voice as instrument - and Spectacle has been a pretty classy show that I can't divorce, creatively, from his musical integrity & general eclecticism about music. Also, I love his later-career obsession with Americana.

Personally, I think ever since modern pop music birthed with the Beatles, despite his origins - Elvis Costello might be as close as we'll ever get to having another Cole Porter.

If I remember correctly, critics threw out a lot of Cole Porter references around the time of Imperial Bedroom. I'm not the greatest fan, and most of the post '81 work I've heard I'd rate as very spotty, but I'd rank him as a pretty significant taletn and I think he's written a handful of great songs and quite a few really good ones. The first four records are fairly classic in my books, Imperial Bedroom is almost as good, and King of America isn't quite so strong but has four or five songs that I really love.

As for the Ray Charles business: there's no shortage of guys who've done something stupid and offensive when they were young and drunk. I have a few episodes I'd like do-overs on myself. As far as know, this was an isolated incident and no one has ever shown that he's a racist, so I believe he deserves forgiveness.

[Edited 4/28/13 8:53am]

damosuzuki said:

God, now I realize I was so harsh, this thread BEGS forgiveness and male bonding

and Man Out of Time is, in fACT, QUITE amazing

second chance for Costello

[Edited 4/28/13 8:45am]

JoeTyler said:

God, now I realize I was so harsh, this thread BEGS forgiveness and male bonding

and Man Out of Time is, in fACT, QUITE amazing

second chance for Costello

[Edited 4/28/13 8:45am]

One love!!! Peace and unity!

A good guy, probably not. The 'I was drunk' excuse was pathetic.

But dude is a musical genius - if you can't hear his melodic and arranging talents on those frist 5 or so albums, you should probably stick to the kiddie music.

JoeTyler said:

God, now I realize I was so harsh, this thread BEGS forgiveness and male bonding

and Man Out of Time is, in fACT, QUITE amazing

second chance for Costello

[Edited 4/28/13 8:45am]

Don't back down man. It is more fun when we are "fighting."

MendesCity said:

A good guy, probably not. The 'I was drunk' excuse was pathetic.

But dude is a musical genius - if you can't hear his melodic and arranging talents on those frist 5 or so albums, you should probably stick to the kiddie music.

Isn't it possible he was just being outrageous and didn't mean it?

Yeah, i've sort of struggled to get into his Elvis Costello's music, bought his compilation "best of first 10 years" which i really liked. Then moved on to his most "acclaimed" album, "Armed Forces", which to me was all-filler except for the 3 hits off it, so i haven't bothered to dig any deeper into his catalogue...

NDRU said:

MendesCity said:

A good guy, probably not. The 'I was drunk' excuse was pathetic.

But dude is a musical genius - if you can't hear his melodic and arranging talents on those frist 5 or so albums, you should probably stick to the kiddie music.

Isn't it possible he was just being outrageous and didn't mean it?

His explanation was that he really didn't want to talk to whoever he was talking too about James Brown or Ray Charles, so he was trying to get him to shut up by being shocking.

rialb said:

Out of curiosity which albums did you listen to? I wouldn't recommend Almost Blue, Punch the Clock or Goodbye Cruel World but everything else that he did circa 1977-1986 is pretty great. After that he got a little too eclectic for me. I like some of his post 1986 music but it is much less consistent.

Were there any songs that you liked? I can understand that some people don't like his voice but he was a pretty great and consistent songwriter. Lyrically I would argue that he is better than all of the acts you listed (and I am a HUGE fan of The Jam).

He had virtually no hits? I guess that is true in America but is that really a valid reason to dislike him? Television and the Jam weren't exactly staples on the Hot 100.

The racist comment? Hold on just a second. Aren't you a big Eric Clapton fan? If you give Eric a pass for this:

Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the wogs out. Get the coons out. Keep Britain white. I used to be into dope, now I’m into racism. It’s much heavier, man. Fucking wogs, man. Fucking Saudis taking over London. Bastard wogs. Britain is becoming overcrowded and Enoch will stop it and send them all back.

Why is what Costello said unforgivable?

Wow. That sh!t from Clapton is crazy. I can't believe I missed that before now.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

God, now I realize I was so harsh, this thread BEGS forgiveness and male bonding

and Man Out of Time is, in fACT, QUITE amazing

second chance for Costello

[Edited 4/28/13 8:45am]

Don't back down man. It is more fun when we are "fighting."

JoeTyler said:

I've finally listened to some of his supposedly "great" albums, and jezz I AM disappointed

not only I think the guy may be a closet RACIST, (he called Ray Charles a blind, ignorant, nigger,-> DRUNK TALK MY ASS, when I'm drunk I don't say stuff like that, more like "hey babe is that ass of yours lonely?")

seriously, the guy virtually has NO hits, his style was done BETTER by acts like Sting/Police, The Jam, Blondie, Television, etc

why this guy became one of the greats is beyond me

Agree, Joe. He's a pretentious douchebag.

Ace said:

JoeTyler said:

I've finally listened to some of his supposedly "great" albums, and jezz I AM disappointed

not only I think the guy may be a closet RACIST, (he called Ray Charles a blind, ignorant, nigger,-> DRUNK TALK MY ASS, when I'm drunk I don't say stuff like that, more like "hey babe is that ass of yours lonely?")

seriously, the guy virtually has NO hits, his style was done BETTER by acts like Sting/Police, The Jam, Blondie, Television, etc

why this guy became one of the greats is beyond me

Agree, Joe. He's a pretentious douchebag.

He is someone you like or you dont, alot of artists like him are like that. Trust me most people think prince is an asshole too, or elton john or john mellencamp or paul simon etc....But Elvis you like or you dont with his music, its a rare to find someone that likes a song here and there, its like that with alot of artsits. As far as him having HITS i dont see why that even got into this thread earlier, what do HITS have to do with anything. Two of the best artists of the last decade or so Norah Jones and Ryan Adams one has had really one "radio" hit and the other has had none, but their work speaks for its own. SO personally im not into Elvis Costello, cause to me he is the type you gotta sit down and get into it, and i never really dug him, just like i hated the Ramones with every inch of Hate, now there is a band that NEVER should have gotten any cred, and im not that crazy about the Clash.

[Edited 4/30/13 8:35am]

lastdecember said:

Ace said:

Agree, Joe. He's a pretentious douchebag.

He is someone you like or you dont, alot of artists like him are like that. Trust me most people think prince is an asshole too, or elton john or john mellencamp or paul simon etc....But Elvis you like or you dont with his music, its a rare to find someone that likes a song here and there, its like that with alot of artsits. As far as him having HITS i dont see why that even got into this thread earlier, what do HITS have to do with anything. Two of the best artists of the last decade or so Norah Jones and Ryan Adams one has had really one "radio" hit and the other has had none, but their work speaks for its own. SO personally im not into Elvis Costello, cause to me he is the type you gotta sit down and get into it, and i never really dug him, just like i hated the Ramones with every inch of Hate, now there is a band that NEVER should have gotten any cred, and im not that crazy about the Clash.

[Edited 4/30/13 8:35am]

1-2-3-4!

And here is the best of both worlds. Elvis Costello performing a song by the Clash!

[Edited 4/30/13 8:54am]

“Music journalists like Elvis Costello because music journalists look like Elvis Costello.”

I don't think that the album version is on youtube but what about "(The Angels Wanna Wear My) Red Shoes"?

Here is a lie version. The Attractions were a great band:

Here is "A Monster Went and Ate My Red 2:"

Gunsnhalen said:

“Music journalists like Elvis Costello because music journalists look like Elvis Costello.”

Depending on how generous you want to be Elvis and Dave had roughly the same amount of time at their peak (1977-1987 for Elvis, 1978-1988 for Dave) but Elvis' "wilderness years" were probably much better for him than Dave's were. Living well is the best revenge.

rialb said:

Jagar said:

I'll not defend what Clapton said, but he has since apologised and said that he was trying to be funny by 'talking politics', if I'm not mistaken his wife was sexually assaulted by a Middle Eastern man the night before the concert (which doesn't excuse it, but hey, he was out of his mind on the grog).

I don't think Clapton is a racist considering his close friendships with BB King, Muddy Waters, Nathan East and others, Costello? I'm not so sure, I don't know that much about him.

Although he has since said he was just trying to piss whoever was talking too him off, which I guess I can understand. It certainly is a way to end a conversation.

Do you have a link to a quote of Clapton apologising? The site where I pulled the quote from stressed that he never apologised for the comments.

None of this precludes Costello from being a racist but if you look at the songs that he has covered he is a fan of r & b music. He performed with Count Basie, recorded a song with Sam Moore and an album with Allen Toussaint and he has worked with many black musicians, particularly after 1986. I am hardly an expert on him and can't claim to have scrutinsed every word he has said in public or in interviews but in a career that has lasted over thirty-five years I do not believe that there were any other incidents that would suggest that he is a racist.

In his biography, if I remember right.