I've finally listened to some of his supposedly "great" albums, and jezz I AM disappointed

not only I think the guy may be a closet RACIST, (he called Ray Charles a blind, ignorant, nigger,-> DRUNK TALK MY ASS, when I'm drunk I don't say stuff like that, more like "hey babe is that ass of yours lonely?")

seriously, the guy virtually has NO hits, his style was done BETTER by acts like Sting/Police, The Jam, Blondie, Television, etc

why this guy became one of the greats is beyond me

[Edited 4/28/13 8:46am]

Well damn.

But yeah I could never get into him musically.

OK troll!

I can see not liking his style, particularly his vocal style, or not forgiving him for making a deliberately outrageous statement [35 years ago as a kid] that was inappropriate in any context...

But seriously, these are terrible songs?

Out of curiosity which albums did you listen to? I wouldn't recommend Almost Blue, Punch the Clock or Goodbye Cruel World but everything else that he did circa 1977-1986 is pretty great. After that he got a little too eclectic for me. I like some of his post 1986 music but it is much less consistent.

Were there any songs that you liked? I can understand that some people don't like his voice but he was a pretty great and consistent songwriter. Lyrically I would argue that he is better than all of the acts you listed (and I am a HUGE fan of The Jam).

He had virtually no hits? I guess that is true in America but is that really a valid reason to dislike him? Television and the Jam weren't exactly staples on the Hot 100.

The racist comment? Hold on just a second. Aren't you a big Eric Clapton fan? If you give Eric a pass for this:

Why is what Costello said unforgivable?

Timmy84 said:

Put the popcorn down you fool. We are all friends here having a friendly discussion.

rialb said:

Timmy84 said:

Put the popcorn down you fool. We are all friends here having a friendly discussion.

Hahaha you can't fault me for wanting to see his reaction though.

Timmy84 said:

rialb said:

Put the popcorn down you fool. We are all friends here having a friendly discussion.

Hahaha you can't fault me for wanting to see his reaction though.

Me too.

Clapton is an asshole, but at least he made some great music from the 60s to 1977

because he's an asshole, I've downloaded some of his music (ain't gonna pay money to an asshole)

but Costello ain't worth a download

so far, the only tracks that captured my ATTENTION have been Watching the Detectives, Love for Tender and Brightest Mistake

the guy HAS NO HITS, and I'm not talking about the US charts, I was expecting a Roxanne, a Heart of Glass, a Hungry Heart, a Walk of Life, something of that caliber, but NO...

even the Talking Heads have more hits

Imperial Bedroom is a towering piece of work. Costello hasn't the faintest notion how one writes hits and yet his musical and lyrical dexterity shows he's in a class of his own.

NDRU said:

OK troll!

I can see not liking his style, particularly his vocal style, or not forgiving him for making a deliberately outrageous statement [35 years ago as a kid] that was inappropriate in any context...

But seriously, these are terrible songs?

a) dreadful, sounds like giddy elevator music from hell, I puked a little

b) sleek, boring, unremarkable

c) derivative country pastiche or something like that

d) kind of decent new wave/r&r number, sounds like The Knack, listenable fast food of a song

e) Chuck Berry had already done this kind of stuff 30 years before, and with less schmaltz

f) does nothing for me, kind of catchy chorus though

g) boring, lame chorus

[Edited 4/27/13 13:53pm]

Identity said:

Imperial Bedroom is a towering piece of work. Costello hasn't the faintest notion how one writes hits and yet his musical and lyrical dexterity shows he's in a class of his own.

what's so great about that album?, please explain

by towering piece of work I think of Led Zeppelin's IV, Sgt.Peppers, or Sing of the Times

what's so great about Imperial Bedroom (cool title, anyway)

I can't imagine how you could listen to IB and not like it. ''Almost Blue'' is a killer ballad, "Man Out of Time" has a breathtaking coda, "The Loved Ones" and "Human Hands" are great songs. The manner in which he approached the deconstruction of martial bliss in song impresses me.

Identity said:

I can't imagine how you could listen to IB and not like it. ''Almost Blue'' is a killer ballad, "Man Out of Time" has a breathtaking coda, "The Loved Ones" and "Human Hands" are great songs. The manner in which he approached the deconstruction of martial bliss in song impresses me.

I'm glad you like him, I can't

JoeTyler said:

Clapton is an asshole, but at least he made some great music from the 60s to 1977

because he's an asshole, I've downloaded some of his music (ain't gonna pay money to an asshole)

but Costello ain't worth a download

so far, the only tracks that captured my ATTENTION have been Watching the Detectives, Love for Tender and Brightest Mistake

the guy HAS NO HITS, and I'm not talking about the US charts, I was expecting a Roxanne, a Heart of Glass, a Hungry Heart, a Walk of Life, something of that caliber, but NO...

even the Talking Heads have more hits

You did mention tepid album tracks so I have to assume that you listened to some full albums but which ones? If you don't like his stuff circa 1977-1986 there's very little chance you will like his later material.

So it is not his vocals that are putting you off, you just don't like his songs, is that correct? Well, you gave him a shot, no one is universally enjoyed by everyone.

What do you think of this one?

This is a demo so the instrumentation is crude but I like the vocal on this one better than the album version.

I don't think he is nearly as big of an asshole as he was when he was younger. He definitely had a chip on his shoulder in the early years and a lot of his fans miss the asshole that he used to be. Once he grew up and became more polite his music became quite a bit less interesting, at least to me.

[Edited 4/27/13 14:22pm]

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

Clapton is an asshole, but at least he made some great music from the 60s to 1977

because he's an asshole, I've downloaded some of his music (ain't gonna pay money to an asshole)

but Costello ain't worth a download

so far, the only tracks that captured my ATTENTION have been Watching the Detectives, Love for Tender and Brightest Mistake

the guy HAS NO HITS, and I'm not talking about the US charts, I was expecting a Roxanne, a Heart of Glass, a Hungry Heart, a Walk of Life, something of that caliber, but NO...

even the Talking Heads have more hits

You did mention tepid album tracks so I have to assume that you listened to some full albums but which ones? If you don't like his stuff circa 1977-1986 there's very little chance you will like his later material.

So it is not his vocals that are putting you off, you just don't like his songs, is that correct? Well, you gave him a shot, no one is universally enjoyed by everyone.

What do you think of this one?

This is a demo so the instrumentation is crude but I like the vocal on this one better than the album version.

I don't think he is nearly as big of an asshole as he was when he was younger. He definitely had a chip on his shoulder in the early years and a lot of his fans miss the asshole that he used to be. Once he grew up and became more polite his music became quite a bit less interesting, at least to me.

[Edited 4/27/13 14:22pm]

I've mostly heard his 77-82 albums, and some of King of America

why does he fill his albums with 21-23 songs??? the filler is EVERYWHERE!!!!!

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

You did mention tepid album tracks so I have to assume that you listened to some full albums but which ones? If you don't like his stuff circa 1977-1986 there's very little chance you will like his later material.

So it is not his vocals that are putting you off, you just don't like his songs, is that correct? Well, you gave him a shot, no one is universally enjoyed by everyone.

What do you think of this one?

This is a demo so the instrumentation is crude but I like the vocal on this one better than the album version.

I don't think he is nearly as big of an asshole as he was when he was younger. He definitely had a chip on his shoulder in the early years and a lot of his fans miss the asshole that he used to be. Once he grew up and became more polite his music became quite a bit less interesting, at least to me.

[Edited 4/27/13 14:22pm]

I've mostly heard his 77-82 albums, and some of King of America

why does he fill his albums with 21-23 songs??? the filler is EVERYWHERE!!!!!

If you are up for it you may want to try his 1986 album Blood & Chocolate. It features some of his most "rock" songs. I thought it was interesting how he was able to change his sound from album to album while often working with the same producer (Nick Lowe). Stylistically his first five albums cover a fair bit of ground, especially when you consider the b-sides.

Now Joe, you are just exaggerating. Get Happy!! (probably my favourite of his albums) did feature twenty songs but none of his albums from that era had 21-23 songs unless you are referring to the Rykodisc versions with bonus tracks. I'm not sure if that is fair. By definition bonus tracks are often filler.

SuperSoulFighter said:

These were the days of the angry young men, so some of Elvis' stupid racist comments could just be part of the image he wanted to create. Wasn't there a band that called the English monarchy a "fascist regime"?

Speaking of the "angry young men," JoeTyler, how do you think Costello compares to Graham Parker and (early) Joe Jackson?

rialb said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

These were the days of the angry young men, so some of Elvis' stupid racist comments could just be part of the image he wanted to create. Wasn't there a band that called the English monarchy a "fascist regime"?

Speaking of the "angry young men," JoeTyler, how do you think Costello compares to Graham Parker and (early) Joe Jackson?

pussies

angry young men were Dave Mustaine or Chuck D

I see.

I will concede that Costello was not particularly influential. It is not easy to point to artists who came after him and say he was an obvious influence on them. Being a fan I would say that is because he is inimitable but a non fan might have a different opinion.

rialb said:

I see.

I will concede that Costello was not particularly influential. It is not easy to point to artists who came after him and say he was an obvious influence on them. Being a fan I would say that is because he is inimitable but a non fan might have a different opinion.

wow, I'm certainly not a fan , but I can see dozens and dozens of alty bands influenced by his early style, you know, the propulsive guitars/keyboards and the "little background orchestra" thing, let alone the cynical-smartass/know-it-all lyrics

[Edited 4/27/13 16:59pm]

rialb said:

Out of curiosity which albums did you listen to? I wouldn't recommend Almost Blue, Punch the Clock or Goodbye Cruel World but everything else that he did circa 1977-1986 is pretty great. After that he got a little too eclectic for me. I like some of his post 1986 music but it is much less consistent.

Were there any songs that you liked? I can understand that some people don't like his voice but he was a pretty great and consistent songwriter. Lyrically I would argue that he is better than all of the acts you listed (and I am a HUGE fan of The Jam).

He had virtually no hits? I guess that is true in America but is that really a valid reason to dislike him? Television and the Jam weren't exactly staples on the Hot 100.

The racist comment? Hold on just a second. Aren't you a big Eric Clapton fan? If you give Eric a pass for this:

Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the wogs out. Get the coons out. Keep Britain white. I used to be into dope, now I’m into racism. It’s much heavier, man. Fucking wogs, man. Fucking Saudis taking over London. Bastard wogs. Britain is becoming overcrowded and Enoch will stop it and send them all back.

Why is what Costello said unforgivable?

I'll not defend what Clapton said, but he has since apologised and said that he was trying to be funny by 'talking politics', if I'm not mistaken his wife was sexually assaulted by a Middle Eastern man the night before the concert (which doesn't excuse it, but hey, he was out of his mind on the grog).

I don't think Clapton is a racist considering his close friendships with BB King, Muddy Waters, Nathan East and others, Costello? I'm not so sure, I don't know that much about him.

Although he has since said he was just trying to piss whoever was talking too him off, which I guess I can understand. It certainly is a way to end a conversation.

JoeTyler said:

verdict: screw that four-eyed overrated PRICK

This isn't really much better than what Elvis said. The differences are that a) you're declaring it to the world and b) I think you actually mean it.

NDRU said:

JoeTyler said:

verdict: screw that four-eyed overrated PRICK

This isn't really much better than what Elvis said. The differences are that a) you're declaring it to the world and b) I think you actually mean it.

since this thread is turning to the "grave/serious zone", I'm gonna admit that the 4eyed thing was unnecessary, sorry, in fact I used glasses when I was younger

but the Prick thing was not

overrated? to each his own, his music does NOTHING for me

and my verdict wasn't racist, at all

I came across this one in the course of this discussion. It's interesting to me because Elvis was supposed to be a "new John" for Paul, and that was not really the case, with Paul releasing another not so great and overly polished album.

But this demo actually makes the song sound like something from With the Beatles or Please Please Me. It's better than the album version IMO

You sound like me, after my first brush with Costello. I heard the first greatest hits - which covers a lot of the territory here - and I was pretty underwhelmed. After chancing on Blood and Chocolate - a challenging album for my age, at that time - I feel like I've grown with Elvis. Unlike Neil Young's 'lost years', Costello has jumped genres in a way that has emphasized and strengthened his songwriting. He's matured pretty gracefully, worked on improving his voice as instrument - and Spectacle has been a pretty classy show that I can't divorce, creatively, from his musical integrity & general eclecticism about music. Also, I love his later-career obsession with Americana.

Personally, I think ever since modern pop music birthed with the Beatles, despite his origins - Elvis Costello might be as close as we'll ever get to having another Cole Porter.

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

I see.

I will concede that Costello was not particularly influential. It is not easy to point to artists who came after him and say he was an obvious influence on them. Being a fan I would say that is because he is inimitable but a non fan might have a different opinion.

wow, I'm certainly not a fan , but I can see dozens and dozens of alty bands influenced by his early style, you know, the propulsive guitars/keyboards and the "little background orchestra" thing, let alone the cynical-smartass/know-it-all lyrics

[Edited 4/27/13 16:59pm]

I see that my attempt at reverse pstchology worked. Yup, that is exactly what I meant when I typed that.

Jagar said:

rialb said:

Out of curiosity which albums did you listen to? I wouldn't recommend Almost Blue, Punch the Clock or Goodbye Cruel World but everything else that he did circa 1977-1986 is pretty great. After that he got a little too eclectic for me. I like some of his post 1986 music but it is much less consistent.

Were there any songs that you liked? I can understand that some people don't like his voice but he was a pretty great and consistent songwriter. Lyrically I would argue that he is better than all of the acts you listed (and I am a HUGE fan of The Jam).

He had virtually no hits? I guess that is true in America but is that really a valid reason to dislike him? Television and the Jam weren't exactly staples on the Hot 100.

The racist comment? Hold on just a second. Aren't you a big Eric Clapton fan? If you give Eric a pass for this:

Why is what Costello said unforgivable?

I'll not defend what Clapton said, but he has since apologised and said that he was trying to be funny by 'talking politics', if I'm not mistaken his wife was sexually assaulted by a Middle Eastern man the night before the concert (which doesn't excuse it, but hey, he was out of his mind on the grog).

I don't think Clapton is a racist considering his close friendships with BB King, Muddy Waters, Nathan East and others, Costello? I'm not so sure, I don't know that much about him.

Although he has since said he was just trying to piss whoever was talking too him off, which I guess I can understand. It certainly is a way to end a conversation.

Do you have a link to a quote of Clapton apologising? The site where I pulled the quote from stressed that he never apologised for the comments.

None of this precludes Costello from being a racist but if you look at the songs that he has covered he is a fan of r & b music. He performed with Count Basie, recorded a song with Sam Moore and an album with Allen Toussaint and he has worked with many black musicians, particularly after 1986. I am hardly an expert on him and can't claim to have scrutinsed every word he has said in public or in interviews but in a career that has lasted over thirty-five years I do not believe that there were any other incidents that would suggest that he is a racist.