Top 10, Top 20 or Top 5 or do you even think he is a great rapper?

none

4 some strange reason I don't associate rap and great in the same sentence.

That said, LL would be in my top 10 rappers.

Top 5 for me. Maybe #2. I think Rakim is probably #1 on my list of Great Rappers. Both have made lots of amazing songs without being smutty and vulgar. Both are class acts, IMO.

Fury, why wouldn't you say LL is a great rapper? and how is he influential?

Great question.

I think LL is one of the greats. However, I do believe he damaged his music career by overplaying the "Ladies Love" half of his name. By catering so much to his female base (singles wise) he alienated the men. Just my humble opinion.

Oh...can't forget about the typical industry ageism playing a role too.

[Edited 3/11/13 9:52am]

number 1, not a big fan of rap, but I listen to LL now and then. I need love was one of the first songs I bought.

I would place hm between the toilet paper and the disposable toilet seat sanitary guard.

So that might make him a tampon.

Top 5 and I totally AGREE with Kitbradley!

Top 20-25.

In nor order:

BDK

Eric B Rakim

Public Enemy

NWA

Wu Tang

Pac

Biggie

Nas

Jay Z

Geto Boys

Grandmaster Flash

Kool Moe D

Boogie Down

Tribaled Called Quest

De La Soul

Outkast

Ice Cube

Slick Ric

Gang Starr

EPMD

Ice T

Busta

Redman

Blow

[Edited 3/11/13 11:51am]

I would put LL Cool J somewhere between a ball sac and an anus. So that means right about at taint.

a member of the TOP5 BEST commercial hip-hop artists

Fury said:

Top 10 He's an icon. Best rapper? No one of Most influential -- heck yeah

and what Graycap sez too.

He was the first legitimate crossover solo MC and is very influential. He was the prototype for the MC-as-pop-star.

JoeTyler said:

a member of the TOP5 BEST commercial hip-hop artists

I 100% agree!! I would not place him in the same catagory as a Biggie, Rakim, or even a Jay-Z.

Musicslave said:

Great question.

I think LL is one of the greats. However, I do believe he damaged his music career by overplaying the "Ladies Love" half of his name. By catering so much to his female base (singles wise) he alienated the men. Just my humble opinion.

Oh...can't forget about the typical industry ageism playing a role too.

[Edited 3/11/13 9:52am]

The man had skills and he looked like this:

He could have called himself Boo Boo Shitface J and the outcome would have been the same.

80's and early 90's LL is some of the finest hip-hop you can find.

His 00's work is doo doo but his classics will always reign.

He had a smooth flow, great vibe, good stories to tell and those hats

[Edited 3/13/13 13:57pm]

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Musicslave said:

Great question.

I think LL is one of the greats. However, I do believe he damaged his music career by overplaying the "Ladies Love" half of his name. By catering so much to his female base (singles wise) he alienated the men. Just my humble opinion.

Oh...can't forget about the typical industry ageism playing a role too.

[Edited 3/11/13 9:52am]

The man had skills and he looked like this:

He could have called himself Boo Boo Shitface J and the outcome would have been the same.

I hear ya. He was bound to be a heart throb regardless of his name. But I still say he probably could've remained relevant even longer if there wasn't so much emphasis on the "tracks for the ladies" becoming paramount in his singles selections to promote his records. There was always a balance before. Think about it, we got "Radio" "Rock The Bells" well before "I Need Love".

LL was one of my favorites back in the 80's. I think his flow, voice, and energy is one of best. He was also one of the hardest among commercial emcees. He's definitely in my Top 20.

Gunsnhalen said:

80's and early 90's LL is some of the finest hip-hop you can find.

His 00's work is doo doo but his classics will always reign.

He had a smmoth flow, great vibe, good stories to tell and those hats

I can't argue with that at all. Agreed!

Great and Rappers is NOT an oxymoron by a LONG shot. But such a list needs diverse criteria such as pioneering certain aspects of the genre. For me that's huge. PPL need to understand what a pioneer does even if said pioneer isn't your personal cup of tea. LL makes the top 10 in terms of longetivity amongst a few other reasons. Hell, he singlehandedly pioneered "emo-rap". I Need Love was the FIRST rap ballad. Vulnerability and hip hop don't go together. Top 10 pop hit! Its interesting that its in HIS catalogue given the machismo associated with him. LL along with others like EPMD showed how you could be HARD, RUGGED and NOT profane. "Gangsta rap" was still years away. Mama Said Knock U Out, and Going Back to Cali in terms of production were ahead of their time! Also when you look at the "female vote" (he was aptly named indeed) and what they BUY, and hip hop being a genre that was/is built on sales, LL was one of the first (if not the first to leverage his swag into $$ as a hip hop sex symbol). No shirts off rappers in endless vids, if no LL, so these things speak to his influence which is underestimated. But I remember b4 and after LL.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Musicslave said:

Great question.

I think LL is one of the greats. However, I do believe he damaged his music career by overplaying the "Ladies Love" half of his name. By catering so much to his female base (singles wise) he alienated the men. Just my humble opinion.

Oh...can't forget about the typical industry ageism playing a role too.

[Edited 3/11/13 9:52am]

The man had skills and he looked like this:

He could have called himself Boo Boo Shitface J and the outcome would have been the same.

There ain't shit he can do to alienate me!

shorttrini said:

JoeTyler said:

a member of the TOP5 BEST commercial hip-hop artists

I 100% agree!! I would not place him in the same catagory as a Biggie, Rakim, or even a Jay-Z.

Disagree. Slightly.

LL was a legit MC who happened to have the star power to "cross over," with platinum albums. Not just singles.

"Rock The Bells," "I Can't Live Without My Radio," "I'm Bad," "Jack The Ripper," "Goin' Back To Cali," etc. Those are legit hip-hop tracks.

Jay-Z is more of a crossover artist now than LL was in the 80s and early 90s.

So he didn't establish himself as a "commercial" hip-hop artist. He established himself as an MC who could sell records. Slight but significant distinction.

Not saying he lives on the same street as any of those MCs -- as long as Rakim draws breath he's the best -- but he lives in the same neighborhood.

namepeace said:

shorttrini said:

I 100% agree!! I would not place him in the same catagory as a Biggie, Rakim, or even a Jay-Z.

Disagree. Slightly.

LL was a legit MC who happened to have the star power to "cross over," with platinum albums. Not just singles.

"Rock The Bells," "I Can't Live Without My Radio," "I'm Bad," "Jack The Ripper," "Goin' Back To Cali," etc. Those are legit hip-hop tracks.

Jay-Z is more of a crossover artist now than LL was in the 80s and early 90s.

So he didn't establish himself as a "commercial" hip-hop artist. He established himself as an MC who could sell records. Slight but significant distinction.

Not saying he lives on the same street as any of those MCs -- as long as Rakim draws breath he's the best -- but he lives in the same neighborhood.

Interesting. Rakim never moved me with his material. I'll take KRS1 all day long.

Musicslave said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

The man had skills and he looked like this:

He could have called himself Boo Boo Shitface J and the outcome would have been the same.

I hear ya. He was bound to be a heart throb regardless of his name. But I still say he probably could've remained relevant even longer if there wasn't so much emphasis on the "tracks for the ladies" becoming paramount in his singles selections to promote his records. There was always a balance before. Think about it, we got "Radio" "Rock The Bells" well before "I Need Love".

LL was one of my favorites back in the 80's. I think his flow, voice, and energy is one of best. He was also one of the hardest among commercial emcees. He's definitely in my Top 20.

Yeah, I feel you.

kitbradley said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

The man had skills and he looked like this:

He could have called himself Boo Boo Shitface J and the outcome would have been the same.

There ain't shit he can do to alienate me!

Amen!

namepeace said:

shorttrini said:

I 100% agree!! I would not place him in the same catagory as a Biggie, Rakim, or even a Jay-Z.

Disagree. Slightly.

LL was a legit MC who happened to have the star power to "cross over," with platinum albums. Not just singles.

"Rock The Bells," "I Can't Live Without My Radio," "I'm Bad," "Jack The Ripper," "Goin' Back To Cali," etc. Those are legit hip-hop tracks.

Jay-Z is more of a crossover artist now than LL was in the 80s and early 90s.

So he didn't establish himself as a "commercial" hip-hop artist. He established himself as an MC who could sell records. Slight but significant distinction.

Not saying he lives on the same street as any of those MCs -- as long as Rakim draws breath he's the best -- but he lives in the same neighborhood.

In my humble opinion, once he did stuff like, "I Need Love" and "Hey Lover", he went commercial and lost his street cred as an MC. As far as him being from the same neighborhood as those you mentioned, he couldn't, even if he had a GPS device....

At the risk of making too big a case for him, he's kind of the Elvis of rap. He wan't the first or the most hardcore but he's one of the poeple that made that music universally popular at the time it was trying to bust out of the underground. His records are some of the earliest ones that go beyond the Sugar Hill sound of old sunk records - "I Need A Beat" was like nothing else I had ever heard when it came out, the first one that was that hard.

namepeace said:

shorttrini said:

I 100% agree!! I would not place him in the same catagory as a Biggie, Rakim, or even a Jay-Z.

Disagree. Slightly.

LL was a legit MC who happened to have the star power to "cross over," with platinum albums. Not just singles.

"Rock The Bells," "I Can't Live Without My Radio," "I'm Bad," "Jack The Ripper," "Goin' Back To Cali," etc. Those are legit hip-hop tracks.

Jay-Z is more of a crossover artist now than LL was in the 80s and early 90s.

So he didn't establish himself as a "commercial" hip-hop artist. He established himself as an MC who could sell records. Slight but significant distinction.

Not saying he lives on the same street as any of those MCs -- as long as Rakim draws breath he's the best -- but he lives in the same neighborhood.

Amen brother! People like to sleep on the original "R" but not me. I recognize real skills when I hear them.

I don't think anybody can argue LL wasn't a legitmate MC. That's more a sign of either ignorance or taste. He was our first major solo Hip Hop star outside of Kurtis Blow. But Kurtis never crossed over like LL.

Musicslave said:

namepeace said:

Disagree. Slightly.

LL was a legit MC who happened to have the star power to "cross over," with platinum albums. Not just singles.

"Rock The Bells," "I Can't Live Without My Radio," "I'm Bad," "Jack The Ripper," "Goin' Back To Cali," etc. Those are legit hip-hop tracks.

Jay-Z is more of a crossover artist now than LL was in the 80s and early 90s.

So he didn't establish himself as a "commercial" hip-hop artist. He established himself as an MC who could sell records. Slight but significant distinction.

Not saying he lives on the same street as any of those MCs -- as long as Rakim draws breath he's the best -- but he lives in the same neighborhood.

Amen brother! People like to sleep on the original "R" but not me. I recognize real skills when I hear them.

I don't think anybody can argue LL wasn't a legitmate MC. That's more a sign of either ignorance or taste. He was our first major solo Hip Hop star outside of Kurtis Blow. But Kurtis never crossed over like LL.

and the fact that MC's like Kurtis and Rakim never crossed over, is the reason why I hold them in higher esteem than I do L.L.