This was born out of that Sade thread, i was going to post it there in response to someone posting MJ, Madonna, The Beatles and Elvis are the only true iconic artists but felt it worthy of it's own thread. People are too easily labelled 'icon' these days, it's become meaningless like the word 'Genius'. If every johnny come lately is a fucking genius nobody is at all really.

Do people realise Bob Marley alone is more iconic than Michael Jackson and Madonna put together?

Maybe Bowie is too for that matter. And Bob Dylan.

Prince is possibly only the second most important/influential artist to come out out of Minnesota. That's how much an icon Dylan is.

Facts! I think.

--------------

Who can we really add to this list?

[Edited 4/4/13 4:04am]

Does any of the "labels" mean anything at all?

At the end of the day, people like what they like.

this thread ain't gonna end well

JoeTyler said:

this thread ain't gonna end well

It didn't start well!

Graycap23 said:

Does any of the "labels" mean anything at all?

At the end of the day, people like what they like.

Graycap23 said:

Does any of the "labels" mean anything at all?

At the end of the day, people like what they like.

I kind of want to stop the thread now.

I'm in full-on bastard rant mode today for some reason.

Artists I consider genius'...

Michael Jackson

Prince

Axl Rose

Tori Amos

Neil Young

David Bowie

Kate Bush

Ummm... that's about it.

[Edited 4/4/13 10:24am]

Ciara

Samantha Fox

Cannibal Corpse

Latoya Jackson

Whisper Jackson

Big Boobs JKackson

Medium Sized Boobs Jackson

Slut Jackson

Powerpuff Jackson

E-honda Jackson

Blanca Jackson

Ryu Jackson

General M. Bison Jackson

Link Of Jackson Jackson

Xena Jackson

Buffy Jackson

Soprano Jackson

Georgio

Rihanna

Oh Lord.

Graycap23 said:

Does any of the "labels" mean anything at all?

At the end of the day, people like what they like.

I am suprised to hear you say this

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

Does any of the "labels" mean anything at all?

At the end of the day, people like what they like.

I am suprised to hear you say this

This argument can never be won and is so subjective until there is no point.

I've heard people call Babyface a genius.

Mozart - genius, Tchaikovsky - genius ..

the "genius" of artists who came out of 20-21 century, will be able to assess only the next generations.
hard to call someone a genius among of our contemporaries, this takes time.

but the most talented artists for me:
Paul McCartney
John Lennon
Prince
David Bowie
Freddie Mercury
Michael Jackson
Stevie Wonder

I personally think Todd, Marvin and Stevie are musical geniuses but that's just my opinion.

LiLi1992 said:

Mozart - genius, Tchaikovsky - genius ..

the "genius" of artists who came out of 20-21 century, will be able to assess only the next generations.
hard to call someone a genius among of our contemporaries, this takes time.

but the most talented artists for me:
Paul McCartney
John Lennon
Prince
David Bowie
Freddie Mercury
Michael Jackson
Stevie Wonder

Perfect example.

IMHO there is only 1 Genius on this list.

To answer the thread question... yes musical/singer/artist icons and musical/composer/dancer/entertainer genius do exist in the music world

On this particular board you have to be a musician to be called a genius and I disagree with that but thats just my opinion

When I think of Icon, I think about an singer/artist who has made an significant impact on the music industry and are influential.

When I think of genius, I think of a artist who has noncomparable unique talent and can not be duplicated and they are a pioneer at what they do and are innovative. They are also influential and of course have made a big impact on music. I think there are fewer of geniuses than there are icons.

However, the words get so over used nowadays that they lose their meaning and become meaningless. Also, people define those terms differently. Some people think because you can sell out arenas that makes you an icon and some people think if you have a number one song that makes you an Icon (which I feel both are trivial reasons because they just reflect popularity and not really talent or anything groundbreaking ).

To me none of it really matters, if the music is good then its good but if someone were to ask me who I think are entertainers/artists who are geniuses I would say

Stevie Wonder

Marvin Gaye

Michael Jackson

Prince

Sam Cooke

Freddie mercury

There are more but these are just one comes to mind

Graycap23 said:

The closest artist mentioned thus far that I would consider to be a 'genius' is probably Stevie Wonder.

Followed by Prince, David Bowie, and then probably Lennon & McCartney

Freddie Mercury... probably not.

And Michael Jackson - definitely not.

Gunsnhalen said:

Graycap23 said:

Perfect example.

IMHO there is only 1 Genius on this list.

You think prince is more genius than Stevie wonder and Mozart??

Bu all joking aside what graycap said is right everyone will say different thing's...

I mean i have heard people say rihanna is a genius the way she sings rude boy.. yes i am serious.

Marvin

Stevie

Prince

David Bowie

Jack White

Dolly Parton

kanye West

Axl Rose

Elton John

Billy Joel

Stevie Wonder

Stevie Nicks

Aretha

Lady GaGa

Depeche Mode

Michael Jackson

a wide range of artists from different eras like them have been called genius but it is subjective to other people whether they are or not.

And some artists that are some of my favorites i simply find are incredibly good.. but not genius.

For example although i think Kanye, Jack White & M.I.A are the greatest artists of the 00's along with death grips... i don't totally find them genius per say and even they(Minus yeezy) would probably agree to that.

Gunsnhalen said:

Graycap23 said:

LiLi1992 said:

Mozart - genius, Tchaikovsky - genius ..

the "genius" of artists who came out of 20-21 century, will be able to assess only the next generations.
hard to call someone a genius among of our contemporaries, this takes time.

but the most talented artists for me:
Paul McCartney
John Lennon
Prince
David Bowie
Freddie Mercury
Michael Jackson
Stevie Wonder

Perfect example.

IMHO there is only 1 Genius on this list.

You think prince is more genius than Stevie wonder and Mozart??

HuMpThAnG said:

Graycap23 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

You think prince is more genius than Stevie wonder and Mozart??

honestly......I don't really get what is so great about the so called classical period. Most of that material is boring as hell. Prince is the only one on that list that I'd call a genius at music. MJ was a genius at marketing and video.

Well i was in orchestra so i can tell ya that shit is hard as fuck to play more so than half the stuff Prince recorded but whether it bores or not is subjective of course

But you brought up a GREAT point i was about to make.

Artists have different ways of being a so called ''genius'' as you said MJ was a genius at marketing and video, Jimi Hendrix was a genius at guitar(Not so much writing although i do dig his writing) Bob Dylan is a genius writer but i would never call his guitar or piano playing brilliant or genius by any means.

So i think people can be ''genius'' or great at different thing's... it's rare someone is just perfect at every little thing possible.

I honestly dont think I would considered anyone in the last hundred years of music a genius. Not even my beloved PSB, and they've done actual classical music compositions.

[Edited 4/4/13 19:08pm]

Gunsnhalen said:

I dont have an issue with you and I enjoy your kick ass posts but I just think you say some real stupid crap when it comes to MJ just because you dont like pop music. There is alot of singers and artists that I dont like but I can still say that they have talent if they truly do. Michael was a very special talent that can not be duplicated.

I dont like how you dumb his talent and impact. We GET that you prefer Prince and accept it. We get that you hold musicianship in a higher regard (although technically that really means shit because there are artists that plays 500 instruments in all there music but there music is still shit so dont know why you feel that makes an artist's music more superior just because they can play an instrument)

It is not about playing an instrument... if the music is good its good whether they play an instrument or not.

to sit here and dumb MJ's "genius" as just marketing and video is absurd, disrespectful and bullshit.

And dissing Stevie Wonder is crazy as hell because if it wasnt for Stevie it wouldnt even be a Prince and Stevie plays more instruments than Prince and plays them exceptionally well.

Michael wrote some of the greatest pop songs of all time. He wrote 90 percent of his catalogue and was the greatest pop dancer/entertainer of all time. He produced a handful of his own songs and did demos with real instruments that he even played himself, was one of the best pop singers. He was very innovative with his music videos, concerts and took risks musically. We have not seen ANYBODY that has been exceptional in all those areas wrapped in one person not even Prince who by the way is not an exceptional singer (which has everything to do with music)

Now if you PREFER Prince thats fine but dont sit here and talk silly shit

Saying Prince better than Stevie Wonder and James Brown.... And then downgrading MJ

You make it seem like Prince is the greatest artist of all time and is better than EVERYBODY....pleaseeee

$%^&& prince.org this site with its issues with posting

[Edited 4/4/13 19:54pm]

[Edited 4/4/13 20:01pm]

Gunsnhalen said:

Graycap23 said:

Gunsnhalen said: honestly......I don't really get what is so great about the so called classical period. Most of that material is boring as hell. Prince is the only one on that list that I'd call a genius at music. MJ was a genius at marketing and video.

Well i was in orchestra so i can tell ya that shit is hard as fuck to play more so than half the stuff Prince recorded but whether it bores or not is subjective of course

But you brought up a GREAT point i was about to make.

Artists have different ways of being a so called ''genius'' as you said MJ was a genius at marketing and video, Jimi Hendrix was a genius at guitar(Not so much writing although i do dig his writing) Bob Dylan is a genius writer but i would never call his guitar or piano playing brilliant or genius by any means.

So i think people can be ''genius'' or great at different thing's... it's rare someone is just perfect at every little thing possible.

Exactly!

Thats the point I was trying to make earlier about how most here define "genius"

Genius to the org is someone who plays 300 instruments

I mean give me a break.

Thats fine and all but there are different types of geniuses besides just musicianship.

mjscarousal said:

mjscarousal said: