namepeace said:

Plus, Rick used those horns, and if you judged by his output alone, Prince apparently had never heard a horn till 1985.

It seems that Prince purposefully used synths in place of horns on purpose to seperate himself from Rick, EWF, and the like.

That was the basis for the MN sound to me. When he dropped it and went organic, I was a bit peeved.

Eddie M grrrr

rdhull said:

namepeace said:

Plus, Rick used those horns, and if you judged by his output alone, Prince apparently had never heard a horn till 1985.

It seems that Prince purposefully used synths in place of horns on purpose to seperate himself from Rick, EWF, and the like.

I agree.

That was the basis for the MN sound to me. When he dropped it and went organic, I was a bit peeved.

I was happy with them for the balance of the 80's and a lot of his other work after that. I think he did a 180 and was trying to prove that he COULD sound more organic, after he'd sufficiently distinguished himself.

OMG OMG OMG

How has no one made a thread about the glow video and totally trashed it? now i think Rick had his own style and didn't bite off Prince much... but that video omg where is imago when you need him?

I feel somewhat stupid cause i can't tell if is a parody or Purple Rain cause that could be it... but this is obviously trying to be purple rain hell the clothes and the scene int he makeup room look like he ''borrowed'' the set for a day.

That is pure awful magic.

namepeace said:

Plus, Rick used those horns, and if you judged by his output alone, Prince apparently had never heard a horn till 1985.

Yep, it makes sense. How can you learn to play women, bass, keys, guitar, drums AND horns at that young age? ('Cause you know he would've played that brass on a Time album his own damn self if he could.) He was also learning how to write and arrange music, lay down lyrics, assemble a stage show, direct a band, deal with a label, dance in high heels...

"Rick saw Prince flying by him and did what he could to catch up. To some extent I think Rick really "chased" him the rest of his career." -rhull That was well stated. Ouch! "RICK, stay in your own lane! It's a nice lane" He could have used Standing On The Top as his template after Streets and Throwin' Down; create transcendent musical moments that rage with brilliance - nuggets, and stop bothering with all the rest. (Rick didn't get that Prince would soon be chasing Prince, too. Trying to recapture the swag of Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999 and Purple Rain, himself. And so come along ATWIAD and Under a Cherry Moon.)

allsmutaside said:

namepeace said:

Plus, Rick used those horns, and if you judged by his output alone, Prince apparently had never heard a horn till 1985.

Yep, it makes sense. How can you learn to play women, bass, keys, guitar, drums AND horns at that young age? ('Cause you know he would've played that brass on a Time album his own damn self if he could.) He was also learning how to write and arrange music, lay down lyrics, assemble a stage show, direct a band, deal with a label, dance in high heels...

The post was intended to point out a fundamental difference between the James Sound and the Prince Sound -- at least until the mid-80's -- not to down Prince. I would say I'm generally familiar with Prince's creative development during that period of time.

"Rick saw Prince flying by him and did what he could to catch up. To some extent I think Rick really "chased" him the rest of his career." -rhull That was well stated. Ouch!

That was actually me responding to rdhull.

Rick had a more traditional sense of R&B musicality than Prince in my opinion while Prince tended to experiment more with the "sounds" of the day(s.) However, the latter DID also have traditional leanings. They were just fewer and farther between. The unfortunate thing about James is the final note he went out on at the 2004 BET Awards with his drunken duetted rendition of "Fire and Desire" with Teena Marie and his infamous, "I'm Rick James, BITCH!" exit line. It only served in making the public perceive him as more of a badass/punk than a serious lyricist and/or musician. A shame really where he clearly had major talent.

Where this look come from????

Gunsnhalen said:

OMG OMG OMG

How has no one made a thread about the glow video and totally trashed it? now i think Rick had his own style and didn't bite off Prince much... but that video omg where is imago when you need him?

I feel somewhat stupid cause i can't tell if is a parody or Purple Rain cause that could be it... but this is obviously trying to be purple rain hell the clothes and the scene int he makeup room look like he ''borrowed'' the set for a day.

That is pure awful magic.

After 1984, Rick was biting from Prince... HARD. But he didn't do that in 1981.

namepeace said:

allsmutaside said:

Yep, it makes sense. How can you learn to play women, bass, keys, guitar, drums AND horns at that young age? ('Cause you know he would've played that brass on a Time album his own damn self if he could.) He was also learning how to write and arrange music, lay down lyrics, assemble a stage show, direct a band, deal with a label, dance in high heels...

The post was intended to point out a fundamental difference between the James Sound and the Prince Sound -- at least until the mid-80's -- not to down Prince. I would say I'm generally familiar with Prince's creative development during that period of time.

"Rick saw Prince flying by him and did what he could to catch up. To some extent I think Rick really "chased" him the rest of his career." -rhull That was well stated. Ouch!

That was actually me responding to rdhull.

Often my sense of humor does not translate to the screen all that well, pardon me. There was no intention to down Prince, or to imply that anyone was unfamiliar with his creative develpment. In this instance I am re-schooling myself, not attempting to reflect on anyone else. Can I try this again? I was serious when I said "Yep, it makes sense."

Plus, Rick used those horns, and if you judged by his output alone, Prince apparently had never heard a horn till 1985. We didn't think too much about that back in the day, we just wanted to know when Prince or Rick was coming to Riverfront Coliseum.

But I am now thinking - How can you learn to play bass, keys, guitar, drums AND horns at that young age? He was also learning how to write and arrange music, lay down lyrics, assemble a stage show, direct a band, deal with a label... It does make sense that he wouldn't incorporate horns into is work until a little later considering all that he was doing up to that point, and all from his own well spring.

"Thank you!" - Rick James, BTF(PTJ)

[Edited 4/3/13 12:02pm]

allsmutaside said:

namepeace said:

Often my sense of humor does not translate to the screen all that well, pardon me. There was no intention to down Prince, or to imply that anyone was unfamiliar with his creative develpment. In this instance I am re-schooling myself, not attempting to reflect on anyone else. Can I try this again? I was serious when I said "Yep, it makes sense."

Plus, Rick used those horns, and if you judged by his output alone, Prince apparently had never heard a horn till 1985. We didn't think too much about that back in the day, we just wanted to know when Prince or Rick was coming to Riverfront Coliseum.

But I am now thinking - How can you learn to play bass, keys, guitar, drums AND horns at that young age? He was also learning how to write and arrange music, lay down lyrics, assemble a stage show, direct a band, deal with a label... It does make sense that he wouldn't incorporate horns into is work until a little later considering all that he was doing up to that point, and all from his own well spring.

"Thank you!" - Rick James, BTF(PTJ)

[Edited 4/3/13 12:02pm]

Noted; we're on the same page! I talk through things to myself in posts all the time but couldn't ascertain the context of your post.

Prince's plan for stardom and development as an artist went hand-in-hand; that separates him from Rick to a certain degree. As you suggest, given that stage of his career, it was a good thing for him and his audience-- and commercially -- that his sound was devoid of horns. That's what made it so distinctive, which is why the alleged similarities in the Prince sound and James Sound up to Purple Rain don't hold up.

namepeace said:

allsmutaside said:

Often my sense of humor does not translate to the screen all that well, pardon me. There was no intention to down Prince, or to imply that anyone was unfamiliar with his creative develpment. In this instance I am re-schooling myself, not attempting to reflect on anyone else. Can I try this again? I was serious when I said "Yep, it makes sense."

Plus, Rick used those horns, and if you judged by his output alone, Prince apparently had never heard a horn till 1985. We didn't think too much about that back in the day, we just wanted to know when Prince or Rick was coming to Riverfront Coliseum.

But I am now thinking - How can you learn to play bass, keys, guitar, drums AND horns at that young age? He was also learning how to write and arrange music, lay down lyrics, assemble a stage show, direct a band, deal with a label... It does make sense that he wouldn't incorporate horns into is work until a little later considering all that he was doing up to that point, and all from his own well spring.

"Thank you!" - Rick James, BTF(PTJ)

[Edited 4/3/13 12:02pm]

Noted; we're on the same page! I talk through things to myself in posts all the time but couldn't ascertain the context of your post.

Prince's plan for stardom and development as an artist went hand-in-hand; that separates him from Rick to a certain degree. As you suggest, given that stage of his career, it was a good thing for him and his audience-- and commercially -- that his sound was devoid of horns. That's what made it so distinctive, which is why the alleged similarities in the Prince sound and James Sound up to Purple Rain don't hold up.

On a side note, have you heard Tee's 1999? Alia should have put that BEAUTIFUL thing out on Beautiful; It would have rounded out the package. I feel there are elements acknowledging P in her song of that title. (Just saying, this is a thread "with inpired by Prince" in the header.)

allsmutaside said:

namepeace said:

Noted; we're on the same page! I talk through things to myself in posts all the time but couldn't ascertain the context of your post.

Prince's plan for stardom and development as an artist went hand-in-hand; that separates him from Rick to a certain degree. As you suggest, given that stage of his career, it was a good thing for him and his audience-- and commercially -- that his sound was devoid of horns. That's what made it so distinctive, which is why the alleged similarities in the Prince sound and James Sound up to Purple Rain don't hold up.

On a side note, have you heard Tee's 1999? Alia should have put that BEAUTIFUL thing out on Beautiful; It would have rounded out the package. I feel there are elements acknowledging P in her song of that title. (Just saying, this is a thread "with inpired by Prince" in the header.)

Matter of fact I havent but will be on the lookout . . . thx!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Where this look come from????

Wow, he looks hot!!! Reminds me of Prince too

namepeace said:

allsmutaside said:

On a side note, have you heard Tee's 1999? Alia should have put that BEAUTIFUL thing out on Beautiful; It would have rounded out the package. I feel there are elements acknowledging P in her song of that title. (Just saying, this is a thread "with inpired by Prince" in the header.)

Matter of fact I havent but will be on the lookout . . . thx!

From the original Black Rain that was later released as LaDona.

allsmutaside said:

namepeace said:

Matter of fact I havent but will be on the lookout . . . thx!

From the original Black Rain that was later released as LaDona.

R.I.P. TEENA

[img:$uid]http://pic80.picturetrail.com:80/VOL2084/9118410/23615037/394358330.jpg[/img:$uid]

BlaqueKnight said:

outsideofthebox said:

rick got the rhythm guitar part from sexy dancer and thats why I say that this track was inspired by Prince because sexy dancer has a very similar rhythm guitar,it sounds like the same exact chords but rick just shortened the strumming a bit.

You must not be from that era. There is nothing about Pass The J that sounds "Prince influenced". Prince wasn't the blueprint for R&B in 1981 and he himself was lifting elements from others' back then and putting his own spin on what was already happening. Its easy to come to such conclusions when something is taken out of the context of the era and judged solely. If you knew what was happening around that time musically in R&B, you'd know that this was very in-step with what was going on. Rick was bigger than Prince in 81', which is when Street Songs came out. If anything, Prince was following Rick's lead.

Ture but in the end Rick admitted to stealing P's gear and ideas. Teena Marie talked about this as well. In the end you hear a Prince influence in a lot of music today not a Rick James influence.

co-sign......

laurarichardson said:

BlaqueKnight said:

You must not be from that era. There is nothing about Pass The J that sounds "Prince influenced". Prince wasn't the blueprint for R&B in 1981 and he himself was lifting elements from others' back then and putting his own spin on what was already happening. Its easy to come to such conclusions when something is taken out of the context of the era and judged solely. If you knew what was happening around that time musically in R&B, you'd know that this was very in-step with what was going on. Rick was bigger than Prince in 81', which is when Street Songs came out. If anything, Prince was following Rick's lead.

Ture but in the end Rick admitted to stealing P's gear and ideas. Teena Marie talked about this as well. In the end you hear a Prince influence in a lot of music today not a Rick James influence.

People state hat 1981 belonged to Rick and it wasnt until after 1981 that Prince took off beating Rick in the pink funk game but nay I digress

1984 had Prince doing Contorversy AND The Times debut..every hard cut on those releases were on par or more than anything on Street Songs

so both had 78 debuts..Rick won in 78...79 too with Bustin out and Prince didnt do to bad with th eponymous release either..and 80 he had Dirty Mind while Rick had Garden Of Love/Fire It Up...

Prince kept up

outsideofthebox said:

co-sign......

laurarichardson said:

Ture but in the end Rick admitted to stealing P's gear and ideas. Teena Marie talked about this as well. In the end you hear a Prince influence in a lot of music today not a Rick James influence.

I'm not disagreeing. Apples and oranges. In 1981, Rick was the sh!t and wasn't biting off Prince. That's all I'm saying.

I don't hear a Prince influence anywhere on Street Songs.That's a truly original sounding funk album.

and I stand by my word that rick bite the rhythm guitar to pass the joint from sexy dancer and that's all I am saying........I think u need to go back and listen to the rhythm guitar to sexy dancer.

BlaqueKnight said:

outsideofthebox said:

co-sign......

I'm not disagreeing. Apples and oranges. In 1981, Rick was the sh!t and wasn't biting off Prince. That's all I'm saying.

SoulAlive said:

I don't hear a Prince influence anywhere on Street Songs.That's a truly original sounding funk album.

I don't hear it either. But I can hear the riff he is talking about in Pass the Joint.......

It is similar to "Sexy Dancer". But I use to be a Rick James freak. None of his muziq ever reminded me of Prince.....

Rick use to be the man. He had his success. But Prince took that torch and ran with it. Its called karma!!!

thank you very much for taking up for me and in addition, I heard that Prince first started using obeihem synthesizers during the recording of the self titled album regarding rick stealing his gear and synthesizers during the fire it up tour. I even heard that rick held up andre cymone with a fake gun on an occasion during the fire it up tour. I dont know if that is rumor or true but I heard it from a friend when we had a conversation about the rivalry between rick james and Prince during that same tour and on a side note, I was only 2 years old when street songs came out.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

SoulAlive said:

I don't hear a Prince influence anywhere on Street Songs.That's a truly original sounding funk album.

I don't hear it either. But I can hear the riff he is talking about in Pass the Joint.......

It is similar to "Sexy Dancer". But I use to be a Rick James freak. None of his muziq ever reminded me of Prince.....

Rick use to be the man. He had his success. But Prince took that torch and ran with it. Its called karma!!!

outsideofthebox said:

thank you very much for taking up for me and in addition, I heard that Prince first started using obeihem synthesizers during the recording of the self titled album regarding rick stealing his gear and synthesizers during the fire it up tour. I even heard that rick held up andre cymone with a fake gun on an occasion during the fire it up tour. I dont know if that is rumor or true but I heard it from a friend when we had a conversation about the rivalry between rick james and Prince during that same tour and on a side note, I was only 2 years old when street songs came out.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I don't hear it either. But I can hear the riff he is talking about in Pass the Joint.......

It is similar to "Sexy Dancer". But I use to be a Rick James freak. None of his muziq ever reminded me of Prince.....

Rick use to be the man. He had his success. But Prince took that torch and ran with it. Its called karma!!!

Well! I attended the "Street Songs" tour. The first & second leg of it. Like I said Rick was the man then. It wouldn't surprise me if he did steal Prince equipment. Back then he was that jealous of Prince to do something like that. Plus the derogatory names he use to call him in the press was horrible. But not long after that tour, not even a year Prince surpassed him.

I feel Rick James heavy drug addiction was a big part of his demise. Even his protege the late talented Teena Marie surpassed him eventually. It saddens me that both are gone now. They stayed in heavy rotation in my bedroom for years...

You know, the best thing about this thread is that it prompted me to re-visit Sexy Dancer and I got to love that song all over again. ...did it in a car with crazy bass and had a ball.

Teena would work Sexy Dancer into Lovergirl during some of her live shows - perfection.

I would pull a gun out on Andre to have him speak on Rick. JK - but those would be some seriously interesting reflections.

[Edited 4/6/13 18:00pm]

allsmutaside said:

You know, the best thing about this thread is that it prompted me to re-visit Sexy Dancer and I got to love that song all over again. ...did it in a car with crazy bass and had a ball.

Teena would work Sexy Dancer into Lovergirl during some of her live shows - perfection.

I would pull a gun out on Andre to have him speak on Rick. JK - but those would be some seriously interesting reflections.

[Edited 4/6/13 18:00pm]

Sexy Dancer!

Andre spoke on Rick in a recent interview. It's in the Assoc. Artists forum. He said Rick pulled a fake gun on him. Andre let Rick know he wasn't having it

* that reminds me, let me go post in that thread, and give some credit.

MadamGoodnight said:

allsmutaside said:

You know, the best thing about this thread is that it prompted me to re-visit Sexy Dancer and I got to love that song all over again. ...did it in a car with crazy bass and had a ball.

Teena would work Sexy Dancer into Lovergirl during some of her live shows - perfection.

I would pull a gun out on Andre to have him speak on Rick. JK - but those would be some seriously interesting reflections.

[Edited 4/6/13 18:00pm]

Sexy Dancer!

Andre spoke on Rick in a recent interview. It's in the Assoc. Artists forum. He said Rick pulled a fake gun on him. Andre let Rick know he wasn't having it

* that reminds me, let me go post in that thread, and give some credit.

Andre Cymone won't you flash some lovin' my way?

allsmutaside said:

MadamGoodnight said:

Sexy Dancer!

Andre spoke on Rick in a recent interview. It's in the Assoc. Artists forum. He said Rick pulled a fake gun on him. Andre let Rick know he wasn't having it

* that reminds me, let me go post in that thread, and give some credit.

Andre Cymone won't you flash some lovin' my way?

lovesexy....