AEG has been allowed by the judge to bring in past evidence of MJ's drug use. That's why Lisa Marie is on the witness list. I don't know why Karen Faye (MJ's make-up artist) was allowed to go into so much detail about MJ's life outside of her job duties and her knowledge of the business aspects and/or past drug use.

I heard years ago that Lisa did ask MJ not to file only to turn around and file herself but that's not shocking given the nature of their tit-for-tat relationship. Lisa didn't want a divorce (as she told Oprah in 2010) and only filed to try and get MJ to stop using drugs and get help. I think she thought that if she walked he'd follow but he didn't. She begged him not divorce her but he did anyway. I think she was hurt and angry that he wouldn't reconcile. So she asks him not to file then turns around and files herself to hurt him back. Relationships are complicated and people do stupid crap to each other sometimes. Don't think she's a bitch for doing that anymore than I think MJ's a bastard forar entertaining the idea of having babies with another woman just because his wife wouldn't birth him a child on HIS timeline.

FYI Karen's testimony is inaccurate. She stated that she and MJ went out on that day after Lisa filed for divorce. MJ was in Brazil when Lisa filed on January 18th. He and Karen went to Motown Cafe on January 25th. Don't know if Karen just forgot or intentionally lied simply to bring up LMP but I do know that they couldn't stand each other when Lisa was with MJ. They made up at the funeral and Karen Faye tweeted that she was wrong about Lisa and that she regretted getting in the way of MJ's relationship with Lisa in the past.

I see ms. Karen Faye testifed about MJ's true physical condition when he was said to have been preparing for these concerts....

the man was frail, emaciated would be the more appropriate term.....

unfortunately, the majority of his fans refused to see the obvious

this 02 concert should have never been scheduled....it never should even been considered

Michael had not performed a concert tour in 12 years before this even was scheduled.......

there's no way this man was 130 lbs during this period....

the suit jacket was virtually sliding off this shoulders, same thing with the slacks, he looked like he was 115lbs tops

there's no way these shows were going to see the light of day......

word has it that the man followed thru on a grand total of 2 rehearsals, which is the footage we see in that movie THIS IS IT...

so what about the other 40 so rehearsals?...who was filling in for those.........

but here we are, in the mix, w/more tragedy coming down the pike throughout this trial.....

[Edited 5/11/13 11:09am]

^^It's fun to speculate and all but I think I'd rather go with the autopsy results aka factual information where it said he was 136lbs. People have got to stop making a huge deal out of body shape I've noticed especially when someone looks a little skinny they freak out and say Omg do you ever eat and all that. Well the truth is humans can be slightly overweight or underweight and still be just as healthy so the weight itself is not exactly a problem here. Especially for MJ it's a good thing he kept his weight so light otherwise his poor knees wouldn't have been able to support the bodyweight and handle all the dancing he was going to do. I don't know if it's the media or the fam that wants to portray him as a walking skeleton but he was not THAT thin, he was just slim in 20009 and as a matter of fact he had been even thinner during the thriller era.

dreamer218 said:

AEG has been allowed by the judge to bring in past evidence of MJ's drug use. That's why Lisa Marie is on the witness list. I don't know why Karen Faye (MJ's make-up artist) was allowed to go into so much detail about MJ's life outside of her job duties and her knowledge of the business aspects and/or past drug use.

I heard years ago that Lisa did ask MJ not to file only to turn around and file herself but that's not shocking given the nature of their tit-for-tat relationship. Lisa didn't want a divorce (as she told Oprah in 2010) and only filed to try and get MJ to stop using drugs and get help. I think she thought that if she walked he'd follow but he didn't. She begged him not divorce her but he did anyway. I think she was hurt and angry that he wouldn't reconcile. So she asks him not to file then turns around and files herself to hurt him back. Relationships are complicated and people do stupid crap to each other sometimes. Don't think she's a bitch for doing that anymore than I think MJ's a bastard forar entertaining the idea of having babies with another woman just because his wife wouldn't birth him a child on HIS timeline.

FYI Karen's testimony is inaccurate. She stated that she and MJ went out on that day after Lisa filed for divorce. MJ was in Brazil when Lisa filed on January 18th. He and Karen went to Motown Cafe on January 25th. Don't know if Karen just forgot or intentionally lied simply to bring up LMP but I do know that they couldn't stand each other when Lisa was with MJ. They made up at the funeral and Karen Faye tweeted that she was wrong about Lisa and that she regretted getting in the way of MJ's relationship with Lisa in the past.

Some people get married because they think they're ready to start a family and obviously thats where Michael was coming from, and he was understood she also wanted to have children with him as soon as they got married but she changed her mind afterwards. So the claim that Michael was pushing to have kids solely according to his timeline is a total bs. Maybe she realized she wanted to stabilize the relationship a little more before having children which could be understandable but she shouldn't have promised him she was ready to have kids before they got married then. Michael would've never rushed into marriage if she hadn't promised him that. And from his point of view it's gotta be a total kick in the nuts to hear your wife all of a sudden saying she doesn't want children with you. I don't know what excuse she used to explain that to him but for someone who's as insecure about his looks and other things as Michael Jackson I'd imagine he could've taken it very personally and been deeply hurt by it. But yes Michael did things to hurt Lisa too so basically when it got bad both of them were trying to hurt each other just as badly I think. But here's another but, after the relationship was over one remained silent while the other publicly blasted her ex on multiple occasions all the way through the most difficult time in his life which was the trial so that should help you figure out who's the bigger asshole in their relationship. Anyone that publicly talks about their ex badly is just...totally classless, to put it nicely wouldn't you agree?

[Edited 5/11/13 12:38pm]

Emancipation89 said:

^^It's fun to speculate and all but I think I'd rather go with the autopsy results aka factual information where it said he was 136lbs. People have got to stop making a huge deal out of body shape I've noticed especially when someone looks a little skinny they freak out and say Omg do you ever eat and all that. Well the truth is humans can be slightly overweight or underweight and still be just as healthy so the weight itself is not exactly a problem here. Especially for MJ it's a good thing he kept his weight so light otherwise his poor knees wouldn't have been able to support the bodyweight and handle all the dancing he was going to do. I don't know if it's the media or the fam that wants to portray him as a walking skeleton but he was not THAT thin, he was just slim in 20009 and as a matter of fact he had been even thinner during the thriller era.

dreamer218 said:

AEG has been allowed by the judge to bring in past evidence of MJ's drug use. That's why Lisa Marie is on the witness list. I don't know why Karen Faye (MJ's make-up artist) was allowed to go into so much detail about MJ's life outside of her job duties and her knowledge of the business aspects and/or past drug use.

I heard years ago that Lisa did ask MJ not to file only to turn around and file herself but that's not shocking given the nature of their tit-for-tat relationship. Lisa didn't want a divorce (as she told Oprah in 2010) and only filed to try and get MJ to stop using drugs and get help. I think she thought that if she walked he'd follow but he didn't. She begged him not divorce her but he did anyway. I think she was hurt and angry that he wouldn't reconcile. So she asks him not to file then turns around and files herself to hurt him back. Relationships are complicated and people do stupid crap to each other sometimes. Don't think she's a bitch for doing that anymore than I think MJ's a bastard forar entertaining the idea of having babies with another woman just because his wife wouldn't birth him a child on HIS timeline.

FYI Karen's testimony is inaccurate. She stated that she and MJ went out on that day after Lisa filed for divorce. MJ was in Brazil when Lisa filed on January 18th. He and Karen went to Motown Cafe on January 25th. Don't know if Karen just forgot or intentionally lied simply to bring up LMP but I do know that they couldn't stand each other when Lisa was with MJ. They made up at the funeral and Karen Faye tweeted that she was wrong about Lisa and that she regretted getting in the way of MJ's relationship with Lisa in the past.

Some people get married because they think they're ready to start a family and obviously thats where Michael was coming from, and he was understood she also wanted to have children with him as soon as they got married but she changed her mind afterwards. So the claim that Michael was pushing to have kids solely according to his timeline is a total bs. Maybe she realized she wanted to stabilize the relationship a little more before having children which could be understandable but she shouldn't have promised him she was ready to have kids before they got married then. Michael would've never rushed into marriage if she hadn't promised him that. And from his point of view it's gotta be a total kick in the nuts to hear your wife all of a sudden saying she doesn't want children with you. I don't know what excuse she used to explain that to him but for someone who's as insecure about his looks and other things as Michael Jackson I'd imagine he could've taken it very personally and been deeply hurt by it. But yes Michael did things to hurt Lisa too so basically when it got bad both of them were trying to hurt each other just as badly I think. But here's another but, after the relationship was over one remained silent while the other publicly blasted her ex on multiple occasions all the way through the most difficult time in his life which was the trial so that should help you figure out who's the bigger asshole in their relationship. Anyone that publicly talks about their ex badly is just...totally classless, to put it nicely wouldn't you agree?

[Edited 5/11/13 12:38pm]

Oh, I agree that MJ probably got married because she promised him she'd have kids. She admits she changed her mind because of the things she saw going on around him. (drug use/vultures) She wanted them to be on the same page because she didn't want to fight him in court for any kids they had. She already said that to Oprah... And LMP has also admitted to Oprah that she didn't handle the end of their relationship well in past interviews. Not saying what she said or did was right but she's human. Who hasn't said things about an ex when they were hurt or angry? Karen Faye admitted MJ said some things about Lisa after they weren't together. Granted it was privately but maybe at the time Lisa felt her only option was to speak to the press about it. Honestly, I think she was head over heels for Michael and when it didn't work she was crushed. All that she did publically was as a result of her being hurt. I think the Jacksons knew that because she's always been friends with her and MJ knew it too because I think he was still in love with her in 2005 when he was on the phone with her inquiring aobut her feelings for him. You don't ask someone if they still love you unless you are hoping that they do. Otherwise what's the point? The fact is that each one has their fair share of blame in the relationship working out. I'm an MJ fan but I also know he was a flawed man just like every other man.

Of all the kids around MJ over the years I would have NEVER thought that Wade would be the one to turn on him. I have been a fan of Wade's talent in the past but I don't believe these allegations. He's been riding Mike's coattails since he was like 11 years old. First with the rap group, Quo and then with his dancing career. You think NSync and Britney would have hired him to cheograph for them if he didn't have a connection to MJ? No way. He was a kid...(16). Wade said he last saw Mike at a BBQ at Mike's house in Las Vegas in 2008. He was praising Mike as late as 2011 in a television interview!! Now all of a sudden he has a breakdown?? Give me a break. I think he probably expected to be more apart of the MJ projects that the estate has put together and is a little hurt/pissed that he isn't. Also, his career has cooled considerably since the NSync/Britney days.

Wade with his mom Joy and sister Chantal in 1994

From DeWayne Turrentine's facebook page/twitter @PrinceSyc:
5/13
As a lot of you know, I was in a group with Wade Robson many moons ago called Quo. We were the first act signed to Michael Jackson's label, MJJ. One day, when my mother picked me up for school, she told me about an audition for a rap group. I was immediately interested and wrote my rap, in the car, on the way there. After I got the job, we were having auditions for the second member. Wade came in and his dancing was incredible. After that day, Quo was formed. We were 11 and 12. Wade and I didn't grow up together. He was from Australia. I was from Pasadena, CA. But we formed a close bond once we began rehearsing. I have GREAT childhood memories with he and his family. With that said...I haven't spoken to Wade in years and was shocked by his allegations, as we'd basically spent a lot of our childhood together, via Quo. To be honest, I know Wade to be a good dude. Hurts me to see him going through this. But to clarify...for everyone now contacting ME, all of MY memories of Michael are great. He NEVER did anything to me and everything I've accomplished in my career, is because of my start with Michael Jackson. Like Wade, I'm also married and a father. Hearing about Chris Kelly from Kriss Kross made me appreciate how well both Wade and I continued living our lives once Quo ended. Wade's had a successful career as a choreographer and I've had a great modeling career and have been a successful music producer for years. This whole situation is unfortunate, but I wish Wade and his family the best.

dreamer218 said:

Emancipation89 said:

Some people get married because they think they're ready to start a family and obviously thats where Michael was coming from, and he was understood she also wanted to have children with him as soon as they got married but she changed her mind afterwards. So the claim that Michael was pushing to have kids solely according to his timeline is a total bs. Maybe she realized she wanted to stabilize the relationship a little more before having children which could be understandable but she shouldn't have promised him she was ready to have kids before they got married then. Michael would've never rushed into marriage if she hadn't promised him that. And from his point of view it's gotta be a total kick in the nuts to hear your wife all of a sudden saying she doesn't want children with you. I don't know what excuse she used to explain that to him but for someone who's as insecure about his looks and other things as Michael Jackson I'd imagine he could've taken it very personally and been deeply hurt by it. But yes Michael did things to hurt Lisa too so basically when it got bad both of them were trying to hurt each other just as badly I think. But here's another but, after the relationship was over one remained silent while the other publicly blasted her ex on multiple occasions all the way through the most difficult time in his life which was the trial so that should help you figure out who's the bigger asshole in their relationship. Anyone that publicly talks about their ex badly is just...totally classless, to put it nicely wouldn't you agree?

[Edited 5/11/13 12:38pm]

Oh, I agree that MJ probably got married because she promised him she'd have kids. She admits she changed her mind because of the things she saw going on around him. (drug use/vultures) She wanted them to be on the same page because she didn't want to fight him in court for any kids they had. She already said that to Oprah... And LMP has also admitted to Oprah that she didn't handle the end of their relationship well in past interviews. Not saying what she said or did was right but she's human. Who hasn't said things about an ex when they were hurt or angry? Karen Faye admitted MJ said some things about Lisa after they weren't together. Granted it was privately but maybe at the time Lisa felt her only option was to speak to the press about it. Honestly, I think she was head over heels for Michael and when it didn't work she was crushed. All that she did publically was as a result of her being hurt. I think the Jacksons knew that because she's always been friends with her and MJ knew it too because I think he was still in love with her in 2005 when he was on the phone with her inquiring aobut her feelings for him. You don't ask someone if they still love you unless you are hoping that they do. Otherwise what's the point? The fact is that each one has their fair share of blame in the relationship working out. I'm an MJ fan but I also know he was a flawed man just like every other man.

She NEVER said drug use was one of the reasons she didn't immediately have children with him. She wouldn't dare. That is I believe almost judging him as a father figure and no matter what her reasons were for not having kids with him it had nothing to do with that but was between her and Michael's relationship. She said he was always good to his kids and when she met Prince Michael she said "I'm sure he's a wonderful father" or something along the lines.

And of course Michael talked about her with his friends but huge difference between going on public with that crap and doing it privately like you said. Yes humans make mistakes but you gotta agree, she and Pricilla took it further, meaning they didn't just explain what happened when asked in interviews, they spoke of him in a very vicious, cruel way in order to convince the public she was only another naive victim who was taken advantage of. That is no where near "mistake" and she only considers it a mistake because Michael passed. If he was alive and doing the O2 shows and all do you honestly think she would admit she hadn't spoken very well in previous interviews about Michael? Just for that alone I cant say I have much respect for her.

Also regarding Michael still being in love with her during 2005 I doubt it. It's not like Michael was that clueless to ask a married woman "Hey I'm still in love with you are you still in love with me as well?" I think he just desperately wanted to believe there's someone out there who still loved him and cared about him on a personal level.

Scorp said:

I see ms. Karen Faye testifed about MJ's true physical condition when he was said to have been preparing for these concerts....

the man was frail, emaciated would be the more appropriate term.....

unfortunately, the majority of his fans refused to see the obvious

this 02 concert should have never been scheduled....it never should even been considered

Michael had not performed a concert tour in 12 years before this even was scheduled.......

there's no way this man was 130 lbs during this period....

the suit jacket was virtually sliding off this shoulders, same thing with the slacks, he looked like he was 115lbs tops

there's no way these shows were going to see the light of day......

word has it that the man followed thru on a grand total of 2 rehearsals, which is the footage we see in that movie THIS IS IT...

so what about the other 40 so rehearsals?...who was filling in for those.........

but here we are, in the mix, w/more tragedy coming down the pike throughout this trial.....

[Edited 5/11/13 11:09am]

Yeah, he was skinny, but the autopsy doesn't say that Mike died from being skinny. He has always been skinny. He seemed way too skiny even during the Thriller era. I remember people calling Mike fat during this era.

dag said:

Scorp said:

I see ms. Karen Faye testifed about MJ's true physical condition when he was said to have been preparing for these concerts....

the man was frail, emaciated would be the more appropriate term.....

unfortunately, the majority of his fans refused to see the obvious

this 02 concert should have never been scheduled....it never should even been considered

Michael had not performed a concert tour in 12 years before this even was scheduled.......

there's no way this man was 130 lbs during this period....

the suit jacket was virtually sliding off this shoulders, same thing with the slacks, he looked like he was 115lbs tops

there's no way these shows were going to see the light of day......

word has it that the man followed thru on a grand total of 2 rehearsals, which is the footage we see in that movie THIS IS IT...

so what about the other 40 so rehearsals?...who was filling in for those.........

but here we are, in the mix, w/more tragedy coming down the pike throughout this trial.....

[Edited 5/11/13 11:09am]

Yeah, he was skinny, but the autopsy doesn't say that Mike died from being skinny. He has always been skinny. He seemed way too skiny even during the Thriller era. I remember people calling Mike fat during this era.

Michael was beyond frail during those rehearsal.......I don't see why it's so difficult for that to be acknowledged....when people start responding to someone as a walking skeleton, that goes way beyond skinny....he was emaciated.......

the thing should have been cancelled, it never should have been scheduled......everything was rushed.....

back in the day, by the time he hit w/Off the Wall and Thriller, he was thin, but he was lithe also......, he was in tip top shape to perform night in and night out....

that picture below, Michael looks like he weighsjust as much as brother Marlon

Scorp said:

dag said:

Yeah, he was skinny, but the autopsy doesn't say that Mike died from being skinny. He has always been skinny. He seemed way too skiny even during the Thriller era. I remember people calling Mike fat during this era.

Michael was beyond frail during those rehearsal.......I don't see why it's so difficult for that to be acknowledged....when people start responding to someone as a walking skeleton, that goes way beyond skinny....he was emaciated.......

the thing should have been cancelled, it never should have been scheduled......everything was rushed.....

back in the day, by the time he hit w/Off the Wall and Thriller, he was thin, but he was lithe also......, he was in tip top shape to perform night in and night out....

that picture below, Michael looks like he weighsjust as much as brother Marlon

Blablabla... and Scorp blabbers on with his usual bs. The reason the shows didn't happen was Murray shooting Michael up with Propofol and leaving him to die.

PatrickS77 said:

Scorp said:

Michael was beyond frail during those rehearsal.......I don't see why it's so difficult for that to be acknowledged....when people start responding to someone as a walking skeleton, that goes way beyond skinny....he was emaciated.......

the thing should have been cancelled, it never should have been scheduled......everything was rushed.....

back in the day, by the time he hit w/Off the Wall and Thriller, he was thin, but he was lithe also......, he was in tip top shape to perform night in and night out....

that picture below, Michael looks like he weighsjust as much as brother Marlon

Blablabla... and Scorp blabbers on with his usual bs. The reason the shows didn't happen was Murray shooting Michael up with Propofol and leaving him to die.

believe that hype if u want to....

the day that press conference to annouce the tour took place in March of 2009 and when I saw Michael standing on that stage .....

my spirit told me out the box this thing wasn't going to happen....there were warning signs everywhere

that man hadn't performed a concert series since 1997, 12 years from the date of that announcement and all of a sudden he's going to tour for 18 months-2 years........it dont work like that...for any performer....the majority of fans (not the ones I've spoke to privately over the years since 2009), they could care less about the human toll, they wanted to see him return to justify their own false sense of entitlement, to "stick it" to the press and say "the king of pop is back"...just like after the 2005 trial, they expected Michael to pick up where he left off and release another album so they can stick it to the press...but even then the human toll had all but destroyed him....it wasn't about Michael, it was about them...

but the entertainment value was upheld over the human toll....

^^Yes. Your spirit tells you many things, and most of those things are not true. Your spirit should finally tell you that you're crazy. 18 months to 2 years? What are you talking about? It was 3 months, a break of 4 months and then another 2 months. Tina Turner didn't tour for 8 years and then did 90 shows in 7 months straight in about 50 cities at the age of 70.

And none of your bs gets validated by the actions of that fucking doctor.

PatrickS77 said:

^^Yes. Your spirit tells you many things, and most of those things are not true. Your spirit should finally tell you that you're crazy. 18 months to 2 years? What are you talking about? It was 3 months, a break of 4 months and then another 2 months. Tina Turner didn't tour for 8 years and then did 90 shows in 7 months straight in about 50 cities at the age of 70.

And none of your bs gets validated by the actions of that fucking doctor.

u really think it was going to happen don't u.......

how many rehearsals did he show up for

and I aint saying this stuff to talk about this man....but it was never going to happen

more warning signs surfaced when the first 4 shows were postponed...

Tina Turner was in tip top shape to do those shows at the age of 69-70.......that's the only way she was able to do it.....

what u don't understand is....after Invincible....Michael Jackson had unofficially retired w/out confirming it publically.....his career became inactive during the course of the past decade

when he said THIS IS IT....he had retired officially w/out saying the exact words......

[Edited 5/11/13 19:10pm]

^^Yes. And they would have, would he have had a competent doctor around him. You know, one that knows what he does and doesn't kill him. The postponement of the first 3 shows means nothing, that was just to accommodate enough rehearsal time in London at the O2, which they wouldn't have had per the original schedule, as two days before Michael's kick off another concert was taking place at the O2. Also it is irrelevant how many rehearsals Michael attended. Michael knows his routines, he had been doing them all his life. The TII movie is sufficiently showing that he was on his way getting there. And once he would have hit the stage in a building with 20.000 screaming fans everything would have been the way it should have been.

You said performer don't just go back to performing after many years off. I showed an example in Tina Turner. And yes, Michae's career was on a backburner after Invincible, but that was most likely due to him being a single father of 3 children, the Sony troubles and duh, the trial in '05.

Scorp said:

dag said:

Yeah, he was skinny, but the autopsy doesn't say that Mike died from being skinny. He has always been skinny. He seemed way too skiny even during the Thriller era. I remember people calling Mike fat during this era.

Michael was beyond frail during those rehearsal.......I don't see why it's so difficult for that to be acknowledged....when people start responding to someone as a walking skeleton, that goes way beyond skinny....he was emaciated.......

the thing should have been cancelled, it never should have been scheduled......everything was rushed.....

back in the day, by the time he hit w/Off the Wall and Thriller, he was thin, but he was lithe also......, he was in tip top shape to perform night in and night out....

that picture below, Michael looks like he weighsjust as much as brother Marlon

Michael Jackson's autopsy revealed no damaged organs, no emanciated body, no underweight. He was 5'9 (69inches tall) and was in the correct weight for his height. So as skinny as he may have looked, he wasn't starved or skin and bone exactly.

Michael died from an overdose, he didn't die from natural causes. The fact that he took propofol is alarming so obviously he needed help for that, but he didn't die from any other reason but a drug overdose inflicted by Conrad Murray. They said he was in great shape for a man of 50 and would probably have had a normal length life if he managed to get help for his insomnia and didn't overdose.

I'm not a fan in denial, I'm going by the medical experts and the coroners report. My source is the people who investigated his entire body to find out the cause of death. If he was emanciated why would I deny it? He is dead, it doesn't get more real and awakening than that.

You know, I went to see Michael's clothing in real life in 2010 at the 02 arena in London. Pieces from The Jackson 5- 2009. Throughout his entire life, he was very very small. His legs during his late teens/early to mid twentys (see the Victory tour pic above) were so thin and don't even get me started on his waist. But it didn't stop in his 20's. It was pretty much the same throughout. Hollywood starlets would pray for a waist like that. Even his History concert costume, the famous Gold pants... they weren't big either, and that was considered his 'meatier' look. Michael was never a big eater, he is known for not being a lover of food. BUT, that is not what killed him.

Also, Michael never got the chance to do anything after Invincible because of the horrendous Bashir and the trial. He did however release One More Chance before his arrest. So we can't say if he had 'retired' after 'Vince. I doubt he would want to tour though,

btw Michael wasn't touring! Everyone says a tour but it wasn't a tour, it was a stay at the 02 arena, 50 shows spread over about a year or so. He was going to be settled, living in England, not traveling the world.

[Edited 5/11/13 19:34pm]

OfftheWall said:

Scorp said:

Michael was beyond frail during those rehearsal.......I don't see why it's so difficult for that to be acknowledged....when people start responding to someone as a walking skeleton, that goes way beyond skinny....he was emaciated.......

the thing should have been cancelled, it never should have been scheduled......everything was rushed.....

back in the day, by the time he hit w/Off the Wall and Thriller, he was thin, but he was lithe also......, he was in tip top shape to perform night in and night out....

that picture below, Michael looks like he weighsjust as much as brother Marlon

Michael Jackson's autopsy revealed no damaged organs, no emanciated body, no underweight. He was 5'9 (69inches tall) and was in the correct weight for his height. So as skinny as he may have looked, he wasn't starved or skin and bone exactly.

Michael died from an overdose, he didn't die from natural causes. The fact that he took propofol is alarming so obviously he needed help for that, but he didn't die from any other reason but a drug overdose inflicted by Conrad Murray. They said he was in great shape for a man of 50 and would probably have had a normal length life if he managed to get help for his insomnia and didn't overdose.

I'm not a fan in denial, I'm going by the medical experts and the coroners report. My source is the people who investigated his entire body to find out the cause of death. If he was emanciated why would I deny it? He is dead, it doesn't get more real and awakening than that.

You know, I went to see Michael's clothing in real life in 2010 at the 02 arena in London. Pieces from The Jackson 5- 2009. Throughout his entire life, he was very very small. His legs during his late teens/early to mid twentys were so thin and don't even get me started on his waist. Hollywood starlets would pray for a waist like that. Even his History concert costume, the famous Gold pants... they weren't big either, and that was considered his 'meatier' look. Michael was never a big eater, he is known for not being a lover of food. BUT, that is not what killed him.

Also, Michael never got the chance to do anything after Invincible because of the horrendous Bashir and the trial. He did however release One More Chance before his arrest. So we can't say if he had 'retired' after 'Vince

[Edited 5/11/13 19:25pm]

and that's the problem...only a handful of people can understand that this tour never should have been scheduled..

it's like millions are afraid to admit it because it would make them feel like the "press" or "media" would have deemed him a failure....

Michael Jackson had nothing to prove. he had proven it a very long time ago.....

and I know about him being skinny when he was a teen and the fact he had pleurisy....I had pleurisy when I was a kid...

I saw him twice live...TRIUMPH TOUR and BAD TOUR....

and during the Triumph Tour, he was thin, but he was lithe.....he didn't have outfits dangling over his shoulders like he did during This Is It....

when he did MOTOWN 25, he looked the same size as his brothers basically...there was no talks about him looking frail

it aint about the frame, it's about the physical condition

we have large size people in greater shape than thin people

that autopsy does not have anything to do whether a person was a capable off fulfilling such a demanding act such as a 50 show tour...

but we gone learn.......we gone learn....

PatrickS77 said:

^^Yes. And they would have, would he have had a competent doctor around him. You know, one that knows what he does and doesn't kill him. The postponement of the first 3 shows means nothing, that was just to accommodate enough rehearsal time in London at the O2, which they wouldn't have had per the original schedule, as two days before Michael's kick off another concert was taking place at the O2. Also it is irrelevant how many rehearsals Michael attended. Michael knows his routines, he had been doing them all his life. The TII movie is sufficiently showing that he was on his way getting there. And once he would have hit the stage in a building with 20.000 screaming fans everything would have been the way it should have been.

You said performer don't just go back to performing after many years off. I showed an example in Tina Turner. And yes, Michae's career was on a backburner after Invincible, but that was most likely due to him being a single father of 3 children, the Sony troubles and duh, the trial in '05.

it makes all the difference when you are being offered hundreds of millions of bucks to perform, your'e expected to be there.....especially when they have put you up in the very house your'e living when while rehearsals are said to be taking place....

when Michael did the Bad Tour, he rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed..it didn't matter how familiar he was w/the routines, he rehearsed until he couldn't rehearse no more...

same thing with his other solo tours........

and that's why I knew nothing was coming out of this because Michael Jackson had never announced a tour so unexpectedly...w/out the necessary preparation.....for he was so prepared..he didn't have to postpone shows.....them past tours weren't rushed

he may have cancelled a show due to illness like he did w/the Bad Tour...but he didn't postpone because he rehearsed until he couldn't rehearse no more...

he never announced a tour out the box like that......never.....

he completed a grand total of 2 FULL REHEARSALS

if you're a professional boxer, the best boxer in the world, and if you don't train properly for your next opponent, no matter if your'e the champion..if you don't train...you're going to get beat....

and that's what happened to MIKE TYSON back in the day in 1990 when he lost to BUSTER DOUGLAS.....rather than training for 8-10 weeks for his fight, he trained a week before the fight and it showed

there's tons of performers who have kids, and still do their thing.......

that man retired in his soul after INVINCIBLE, but gave the impression that he was still full career active to placate his fans......

[Edited 5/11/13 20:06pm]

[Edited 5/11/13 21:12pm]

Scorp said:

OfftheWall said:

Michael Jackson's autopsy revealed no damaged organs, no emanciated body, no underweight. He was 5'9 (69inches tall) and was in the correct weight for his height. So as skinny as he may have looked, he wasn't starved or skin and bone exactly.

Michael died from an overdose, he didn't die from natural causes. The fact that he took propofol is alarming so obviously he needed help for that, but he didn't die from any other reason but a drug overdose inflicted by Conrad Murray. They said he was in great shape for a man of 50 and would probably have had a normal length life if he managed to get help for his insomnia and didn't overdose.

I'm not a fan in denial, I'm going by the medical experts and the coroners report. My source is the people who investigated his entire body to find out the cause of death. If he was emanciated why would I deny it? He is dead, it doesn't get more real and awakening than that.

You know, I went to see Michael's clothing in real life in 2010 at the 02 arena in London. Pieces from The Jackson 5- 2009. Throughout his entire life, he was very very small. His legs during his late teens/early to mid twentys were so thin and don't even get me started on his waist. Hollywood starlets would pray for a waist like that. Even his History concert costume, the famous Gold pants... they weren't big either, and that was considered his 'meatier' look. Michael was never a big eater, he is known for not being a lover of food. BUT, that is not what killed him.

Also, Michael never got the chance to do anything after Invincible because of the horrendous Bashir and the trial. He did however release One More Chance before his arrest. So we can't say if he had 'retired' after 'Vince

[Edited 5/11/13 19:25pm]

and that's the problem...only a handful of people can understand that this tour never should have been scheduled..

it's like millions are afraid to admit it because it would make them feel like the "press" or "media" would have deemed him a failure....

Michael Jackson had nothing to prove. he had proven it a very long time ago.....

and I know about him being skinny when he was a teen and the fact he had pleurisy....I had pleurisy when I was a kid...

I saw him twice live...TRIUMPH TOUR and BAD TOUR....

and during the Triumph Tour, he was thin, but he was lithe.....he didn't have outfits dangling over his shoulders like he did during This Is It....

when he did MOTOWN 25, he looked the same size as his brothers basically...there was no talks about him looking frail

it aint about the frame, it's about the physical condition

we have large size people in greater shape than thin people

that autopsy does not have anything to do whether a person was a capable off fulfilling such a demanding act such as a 50 show tour...

but we gone learn.......we gone learn....

Well, I will say this, I do agree that it was rushed. I was concerned when the auditions for dancers happened AFTER the annoucement. I always thought that should have all been prepared before tickets were annouced, but I guess business doesn't work that way.

Watching This Is It, Michael seemed to love CREATING the show, he loved the cameras, the sets, the creativity of it all, and what we saw of him performing, I think he did really well myself. He was dancing better than the backups and his voice sounded great. But I can understand completely how his nerves would take over when it came to the show itself, it's a different thing entirely. Afterall, all the spotlights, graphics aren't what people will be focusing on, and he knew that. I wasn't shocked at all when the dates were moved. If not only for Michael's sake but for preperations sake. How they could audition dancers, design a setlist/show, move it to England in such a short time. I absolutely knew the dates would be moved around.

He had had a horrific past few years, he had to recover. I always thought he should have stayed in Ireland, made some songs, and just relaxed. But touring is where the money is and since MJ publically stated he HATES touring, dates spread out over quite a long time period in one place seemed like the best option if it was something he had to do. I found news reports with rumours of AEG & MJ teaming up together as far back as 2007, so this must have been an on going decision. The Jackson family too were pushing for a reunion tour for a few years up until as late as 2008, Michael released a statement in November 2008 saying that he wouldn't be joining them for their show but wished them luck. That's why the Jacksons suing AEG is kind of hypocritical when they too wanted him to join their show.

He does look different in This Is It and he could have done with putting on atleast a stone (14lbs or more) over the past few years since the trial and I think Arnold Klein was giving him fillers, but what killed him was his sleeping problem, not the problem itself, but his solution, through Conrad Murray.

Conrad obviously was doing something wrong, and he very much knew it, that's why he had MJ on tape, to probably threaten him at some point I imagine. Michael's apparent behaviour probably had something to do with propofol too, the apparent erractic nervous behaviour and the coldness. He probably hadn't "come around" properly. He definately should not have been working while he had such chronic insomnia. Even if he didn't overdose and die, using propofol everynight or even every couple of nights to 'sleep' must have been very damaging, not only physically but mentally. It's not real sleep and it just wasn't right.

It's one of those tragedy's where you learn sometimes having money and a sort of starpower doesn't really help you at all. Especially when theres a sea of crook doctors around willing to enable their clients while they relish in the money and association. Who is the doctor who told Michael about propofol as a sleep aid in the first place? That person too has blood on their hands.

Michael needed someone like Liz Taylor to give him a reality check, to swoop him up and take him to a clinic to get help for his insomnia, just like when she collected him from The Dangerous Tour in Mexico and took him to England.

It's just so frustrating because that's it... Michael's life is over, no matter how many trials, no matter how many theories, he's gone. It doesn't matter what truths come to light, Michael's life is done the ending to his story here on Earth is complete.

Anyway, this is a newspaper clip of mine from 1984, about his weight no less.

[Edited 5/11/13 21:39pm]

[Edited 5/11/13 21:41pm]

'Dance Crew' Judge Shane Sparks
I Believe
Wade Robson

---------------------------

MJ was wasteful ... I remember when David Gest said about shopping with Michael when he was able to buy things for 200-300 thousand dollars for himself and David as much.
I think MJ molested David too.

interesting that all of their "memories" and the revelations made ​​public only when they have problems with money and careers.

So, for seven years you keep voluntarily hanging out with someone who molests you. Ok.

^^Yeah, and then you forget all about it and need a psychiatrist to remember it. Thank god only nutjobs accuse Michael... too bad though that too many people are not able to detect bullshit.

PatrickS77 said:

^^Yeah, and then you forget all about it and need a psychiatrist to remember it. Thank god only nutjobs accuse Michael... too bad though that too many people are not able to detect bullshit.

Hmm. An extraordinarily selective blind spot that lasts from the age of 7 through to the age of 30. Totally believable. Give it ten years and there'll be another 13 year old accuser saying MJ's corpse molested him while he was a mere twinkle in his father's eye. Anything for $.

OfftheWall said:

Scorp said:

and that's the problem...only a handful of people can understand that this tour never should have been scheduled..

it's like millions are afraid to admit it because it would make them feel like the "press" or "media" would have deemed him a failure....

Michael Jackson had nothing to prove. he had proven it a very long time ago.....

and I know about him being skinny when he was a teen and the fact he had pleurisy....I had pleurisy when I was a kid...

I saw him twice live...TRIUMPH TOUR and BAD TOUR....

and during the Triumph Tour, he was thin, but he was lithe.....he didn't have outfits dangling over his shoulders like he did during This Is It....

when he did MOTOWN 25, he looked the same size as his brothers basically...there was no talks about him looking frail

it aint about the frame, it's about the physical condition

we have large size people in greater shape than thin people

that autopsy does not have anything to do whether a person was a capable off fulfilling such a demanding act such as a 50 show tour...

but we gone learn.......we gone learn....

Well, I will say this, I do agree that it was rushed. I was concerned when the auditions for dancers happened AFTER the annoucement. I always thought that should have all been prepared before tickets were annouced, but I guess business doesn't work that way.

Watching This Is It, Michael seemed to love CREATING the show, he loved the cameras, the sets, the creativity of it all, and what we saw of him performing, I think he did really well myself. He was dancing better than the backups and his voice sounded great. But I can understand completely how his nerves would take over when it came to the show itself, it's a different thing entirely. Afterall, all the spotlights, graphics aren't what people will be focusing on, and he knew that. I wasn't shocked at all when the dates were moved. If not only for Michael's sake but for preperations sake. How they could audition dancers, design a setlist/show, move it to England in such a short time. I absolutely knew the dates would be moved around.

He had had a horrific past few years, he had to recover. I always thought he should have stayed in Ireland, made some songs, and just relaxed. But touring is where the money is and since MJ publically stated he HATES touring, dates spread out over quite a long time period in one place seemed like the best option if it was something he had to do. I found news reports with rumours of AEG & MJ teaming up together as far back as 2007, so this must have been an on going decision. The Jackson family too were pushing for a reunion tour for a few years up until as late as 2008, Michael released a statement in November 2008 saying that he wouldn't be joining them for their show but wished them luck. That's why the Jacksons suing AEG is kind of hypocritical when they too wanted him to join their show.

He does look different in This Is It and he could have done with putting on atleast a stone (14lbs or more) over the past few years since the trial and I think Arnold Klein was giving him fillers, but what killed him was his sleeping problem, not the problem itself, but his solution, through Conrad Murray.

Conrad obviously was doing something wrong, and he very much knew it, that's why he had MJ on tape, to probably threaten him at some point I imagine. Michael's apparent behaviour probably had something to do with propofol too, the apparent erractic nervous behaviour and the coldness. He probably hadn't "come around" properly. He definately should not have been working while he had such chronic insomnia. Even if he didn't overdose and die, using propofol everynight or even every couple of nights to 'sleep' must have been very damaging, not only physically but mentally. It's not real sleep and it just wasn't right.

It's one of those tragedy's where you learn sometimes having money and a sort of starpower doesn't really help you at all. Especially when theres a sea of crook doctors around willing to enable their clients while they relish in the money and association. Who is the doctor who told Michael about propofol as a sleep aid in the first place? That person too has blood on their hands.

Michael needed someone like Liz Taylor to give him a reality check, to swoop him up and take him to a clinic to get help for his insomnia, just like when she collected him from The Dangerous Tour in Mexico and took him to England.

It's just so frustrating because that's it... Michael's life is over, no matter how many trials, no matter how many theories, he's gone. It doesn't matter what truths come to light, Michael's life is done the ending to his story here on Earth is complete.

Anyway, this is a newspaper clip of mine from 1984, about his weight no less.

[Edited 5/11/13 21:39pm]

[Edited 5/11/13 21:41pm]

I agree with everything you said. U are on point......

OfftheWall said:

Scorp said:

and that's the problem...only a handful of people can understand that this tour never should have been scheduled..

it's like millions are afraid to admit it because it would make them feel like the "press" or "media" would have deemed him a failure....

Michael Jackson had nothing to prove. he had proven it a very long time ago.....

and I know about him being skinny when he was a teen and the fact he had pleurisy....I had pleurisy when I was a kid...

I saw him twice live...TRIUMPH TOUR and BAD TOUR....

and during the Triumph Tour, he was thin, but he was lithe.....he didn't have outfits dangling over his shoulders like he did during This Is It....

when he did MOTOWN 25, he looked the same size as his brothers basically...there was no talks about him looking frail

it aint about the frame, it's about the physical condition

we have large size people in greater shape than thin people

that autopsy does not have anything to do whether a person was a capable off fulfilling such a demanding act such as a 50 show tour...

but we gone learn.......we gone learn....

Well, I will say this, I do agree that it was rushed. I was concerned when the auditions for dancers happened AFTER the annoucement. I always thought that should have all been prepared before tickets were annouced, but I guess business doesn't work that way.

Watching This Is It, Michael seemed to love CREATING the show, he loved the cameras, the sets, the creativity of it all, and what we saw of him performing, I think he did really well myself. He was dancing better than the backups and his voice sounded great. But I can understand completely how his nerves would take over when it came to the show itself, it's a different thing entirely. Afterall, all the spotlights, graphics aren't what people will be focusing on, and he knew that. I wasn't shocked at all when the dates were moved. If not only for Michael's sake but for preperations sake. How they could audition dancers, design a setlist/show, move it to England in such a short time. I absolutely knew the dates would be moved around.

He had had a horrific past few years, he had to recover. I always thought he should have stayed in Ireland, made some songs, and just relaxed. But touring is where the money is and since MJ publically stated he HATES touring, dates spread out over quite a long time period in one place seemed like the best option if it was something he had to do. I found news reports with rumours of AEG & MJ teaming up together as far back as 2007, so this must have been an on going decision. The Jackson family too were pushing for a reunion tour for a few years up until as late as 2008, Michael released a statement in November 2008 saying that he wouldn't be joining them for their show but wished them luck. That's why the Jacksons suing AEG is kind of hypocritical when they too wanted him to join their show.

He does look different in This Is It and he could have done with putting on atleast a stone (14lbs or more) over the past few years since the trial and I think Arnold Klein was giving him fillers, but what killed him was his sleeping problem, not the problem itself, but his solution, through Conrad Murray.

Conrad obviously was doing something wrong, and he very much knew it, that's why he had MJ on tape, to probably threaten him at some point I imagine. Michael's apparent behaviour probably had something to do with propofol too, the apparent erractic nervous behaviour and the coldness. He probably hadn't "come around" properly. He definately should not have been working while he had such chronic insomnia. Even if he didn't overdose and die, using propofol everynight or even every couple of nights to 'sleep' must have been very damaging, not only physically but mentally. It's not real sleep and it just wasn't right.

It's one of those tragedy's where you learn sometimes having money and a sort of starpower doesn't really help you at all. Especially when theres a sea of crook doctors around willing to enable their clients while they relish in the money and association. Who is the doctor who told Michael about propofol as a sleep aid in the first place? That person too has blood on their hands.

Michael needed someone like Liz Taylor to give him a reality check, to swoop him up and take him to a clinic to get help for his insomnia, just like when she collected him from The Dangerous Tour in Mexico and took him to England.

It's just so frustrating because that's it... Michael's life is over, no matter how many trials, no matter how many theories, he's gone. It doesn't matter what truths come to light, Michael's life is done the ending to his story here on Earth is complete.

Anyway, this is a newspaper clip of mine from 1984, about his weight no less.

[Edited 5/11/13 21:39pm]

[Edited 5/11/13 21:41pm]

Off The Wall,

I respect what you're saying....I honestly do......very much so...I have no qualms

The thing about what took place w/Mike back in the day vs what we witnessed in 2009 exhibits a stark contrast

during the early stage of his solo career, as far as him not eating or becoming a vegetarian, he did so by choice....because he wanted to achieve a "dancer's body"....did he go to the extreme w/that at times...probably so

When the world saw him perform on stage during the Triumph Tour or Victory Tour, there were no conversations about him looking frail......yeah, he was thin, I like to say lithe, but he didn't look frail

he didn't look frail in those classic videos, Billie Jean, Beat It, or Thriller

when I saw him perform the Bad Tour live, there were no doubts running through my mind that he looked frail.....

the main thing is that he was in tip top shape....that's the key to all of this....you felt confident those shows were going to happen....

he was not in shape to do those 02 Concerts.......and it never should have been scheduled.....no matter if it was 10 or 50

when I saw pictures of the rehearsals w/that Thriller jacket outfit on, you could tell he was wearing doubled layer clothing to disguise just how frail he really was...same thing for the smooth criminal segment.....

I couldn't watch it anymore and took me 2 years to watch that film...

the human toll overtook the entertainment value a long time ago for me when it came to this situation

[Edited 5/12/13 8:17am]

I should correct myself

I shouldn't say that it should never had been scheduled altogether

but it should not have been scheduled at any point in the year 2009

LiLi1992 said:

'Dance Crew' Judge Shane Sparks
I Believe
Wade Robson

Former "America's Best Dance Crew" judge Shane Sparks -- a convicted statutory rapist -- has Wade Robson's back ... telling TMZ, he believes Michael Jackson molested the choreographer.

TMZ broke the story ... Wade has filed a claim with the MJ Estate, alleging the King of Pop molested him for 7 years, from the time he was 7 until he turned 14.

Shane tells TMZ, "I've been knowing Wade forever. Because of the man he is, I do believe him. I don't think he would lie about this because this could hurt him ... He don’t need the publicity or the money. I think this is something that has been on his mind and he had to get it off."

Shane tells us, a big clue emerged soon after he met Wade, who was not much older than 7 at the time.

According to Shane, Wade's tiny apartment was filled with ridiculously expensive electronics -- mixing boards, beat machines, video games, and other "rich kid" toys ... all of which were gifts from Michael.

Shane says Wade was so tight with MJ, he was allowed to host birthday parties at Neverland Ranch without Michael present -- and the only room that was off limits was Michael's bedroom.

Background on Shane, a self-professed MJ fan ... back in 2011, he was convicted of having unlawful sex with a minor under 16.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com#ixzz2T4MvSXWL

---------------------------

MJ was wasteful ... I remember when David Gest said about shopping with Michael when he was able to buy things for 200-300 thousand dollars for himself and David as much.
I think MJ molested David too.

interesting that all of their "memories" and the revelations made ​​public only when they have problems with money and careers.

Michael ALWAYS bought children gifts. He would bring LOADS of toys to sick children. He would allow children to go on shopping sprees in stores and buy whatever they wanted. However, Michael refused to SPOIL his own children. This is why his children have turned out to be totally UNSPOILED; but, generous and giving to others. That's because their daddy, Michael, taught them to be that way. Therefore, this Shane person is full of bullshit if he is saying that the gifts Michael gave Wade made him an abuser. Michael's only fault was being too trusting and too nice to people. Wade's so-called "repressed memory" is just an EXCUSE for why he has been praising Michael for 20 years. Wade was never molested by Michael and his ass knows it. I wonder how Justin and the rest of N'Sync feel about working with such a cowardly back stabbing punk? This bogus claim makes a mockery of real victims and that makes me angry.

All it takes is COMMON SENSE and a sense of rational deduction skills to see that Wade is LYING.

Scorp said:

OfftheWall said:

Well, I will say this, I do agree that it was rushed. I was concerned when the auditions for dancers happened AFTER the annoucement. I always thought that should have all been prepared before tickets were annouced, but I guess business doesn't work that way.

Watching This Is It, Michael seemed to love CREATING the show, he loved the cameras, the sets, the creativity of it all, and what we saw of him performing, I think he did really well myself. He was dancing better than the backups and his voice sounded great. But I can understand completely how his nerves would take over when it came to the show itself, it's a different thing entirely. Afterall, all the spotlights, graphics aren't what people will be focusing on, and he knew that. I wasn't shocked at all when the dates were moved. If not only for Michael's sake but for preperations sake. How they could audition dancers, design a setlist/show, move it to England in such a short time. I absolutely knew the dates would be moved around.

He had had a horrific past few years, he had to recover. I always thought he should have stayed in Ireland, made some songs, and just relaxed. But touring is where the money is and since MJ publically stated he HATES touring, dates spread out over quite a long time period in one place seemed like the best option if it was something he had to do. I found news reports with rumours of AEG & MJ teaming up together as far back as 2007, so this must have been an on going decision. The Jackson family too were pushing for a reunion tour for a few years up until as late as 2008, Michael released a statement in November 2008 saying that he wouldn't be joining them for their show but wished them luck. That's why the Jacksons suing AEG is kind of hypocritical when they too wanted him to join their show.

He does look different in This Is It and he could have done with putting on atleast a stone (14lbs or more) over the past few years since the trial and I think Arnold Klein was giving him fillers, but what killed him was his sleeping problem, not the problem itself, but his solution, through Conrad Murray.

Conrad obviously was doing something wrong, and he very much knew it, that's why he had MJ on tape, to probably threaten him at some point I imagine. Michael's apparent behaviour probably had something to do with propofol too, the apparent erractic nervous behaviour and the coldness. He probably hadn't "come around" properly. He definately should not have been working while he had such chronic insomnia. Even if he didn't overdose and die, using propofol everynight or even every couple of nights to 'sleep' must have been very damaging, not only physically but mentally. It's not real sleep and it just wasn't right.

It's one of those tragedy's where you learn sometimes having money and a sort of starpower doesn't really help you at all. Especially when theres a sea of crook doctors around willing to enable their clients while they relish in the money and association. Who is the doctor who told Michael about propofol as a sleep aid in the first place? That person too has blood on their hands.

Michael needed someone like Liz Taylor to give him a reality check, to swoop him up and take him to a clinic to get help for his insomnia, just like when she collected him from The Dangerous Tour in Mexico and took him to England.

It's just so frustrating because that's it... Michael's life is over, no matter how many trials, no matter how many theories, he's gone. It doesn't matter what truths come to light, Michael's life is done the ending to his story here on Earth is complete.

Anyway, this is a newspaper clip of mine from 1984, about his weight no less.

[Edited 5/11/13 21:39pm]

[Edited 5/11/13 21:41pm]

Off The Wall,

I respect what you're saying....I honestly do......very much so...I have no qualms

The thing about what took place w/Mike back in the day vs what we witnessed in 2009 exhibits a stark contrast

during the early stage of his solo career, as far as him not eating or becoming a vegetarian, he did so by choice....because he wanted to achieve a "dancer's body"....did he go to the extreme w/that at times...probably so

When the world saw him perform on stage during the Triumph Tour or Victory Tour, there were no conversations about him looking frail......yeah, he was thin, I like to say lithe, but he didn't look frail

he didn't look frail in those classic videos, Billie Jean, Beat It, or Thriller

when I saw him perform the Bad Tour live, there were no doubts running through my mind that he looked frail.....

the main thing is that he was in tip top shape....that's the key to all of this....you felt confident those shows were going to happen....

he was not in shape to do those 02 Concerts.......and it never should have been scheduled.....no matter if it was 10 or 50

when I saw pictures of the rehearsals w/that Thriller jacket outfit on, you could tell he was wearing doubled layer clothing to disguise just how frail he really was...same thing for the smooth criminal segment.....

I couldn't watch it anymore and took me 2 years to watch that film...

the human toll overtook the entertainment value a long time ago for me when it came to this situation

[Edited 5/12/13 8:17am]

(no matter how many times I press enter it seems i can't get the hang of paragraphs on this forum it looks ok as i type it but when i post it it all lumps together )

I didn't post that article to compare it to his weight at the time of death (I just found it in my folder and thought it kind of fits the convo). It's true, Michael wasn't the same person he was during the 80's even early 90's. He was young , fit and had the world at his feet. He probably lived on adrenaline alone back then. He was a naturally lean guy, not a big eater, and burned off calories just through the excitment of creating I bet...

But in 2009 he had been through years of HELL, the look of his face during the trial pretty much says it all. It was more than a heartbreak. I don't think many people can imagine what it was like to be in his shoes during that time. I was watching clips on youtube yesterday and even David Gest said most people would have put a gun to their head if they were in Michael's shoes. The absolute fear. It's not something he could just get over and dance about as if it was a 'haha i told you I was innocent' brush his shoulders off scenario.

It too made me mad to see some fans expecting it would just go back to normal after the trial. And I remember telling fans who were mad when the first few dates of This Is It got postponed, that they should have known it was a risk to book tickets from overseas etc. Those years had drained him. So to get back to work, it couldn't have been easy for him. Not only was it a life altering, stressful, soul aching thing, he had had a terrible knock of confidence. He was the best showman the world has ever known, but showman is two words put together, show and man... and sometimes people forget Michael was the latter. Here is Michael Bush, Karen Faye and Dennis Tompkins talking of the aftermath of Michael's death, the interviewer assumed he'd be buried with a glove, but they said No! That wasn't Michael, that was Billie Jean, that was the show... he was a man.

I think little projects would have been good for him, like Thriller 25 (which was a good way to get back into music again publically) or appearences here and there, taking it easy on himself. He could have prepared a wonderful show over time... he loved the thought of directing, he could have built up his confidence... but it wasn't to be.

I think he looked content here in Ireland, he looked healthier then he had previously too imo. I think this was winter 2006.

I know when this picture came out in 2008 August people were shocked at his frame;

but he then began too look much healthier in the later part of that year;

[img:$uid]http://25.media.tumblr.com/1289206cb8b14a93eb2f247452f41ef7/tumblr_mmhwv2P0af1qb07v0o1_1280.jpg[/img:$uid]

Others might disagree but I remember when these pictures came out I thought wow he looks so happy and cute. I really thought he was getting back to happiness.

I this pic.

Despite everything, I think his use of propofol is something we can all agree on as being... alarming and horrific. How could he perform or be required to work in any form if he can't sleep at night? Even if he was Michael Jackson working in Gary and not a global superstar, there would be no way he could function properly without sleep. Let alone being the golden goose of multi businesses depending on you to bring in their money. All eyes and all the pressure were on his shoulders.

All of these things played into his insomnia I bet. Sure he was always somebody who found it hard to sleep, he lived the life of high energy performances and was a night owl, but I imagine the past two decades filled with stress was probably the biggest factor when it came to not being able to drift off.

Also, when you go under you're not meant to have a full stomach either right? Even animals aren' mean to eat 12 hours before a small anesthetic. So perhaps that could have played into his gaunt appearence? (Sorry I don't know if my food theory is true, but I'm just thinking outloud), and also his apparent weird behaviour, feeling cold, unsure of himself probably had something to do with it too. You don't just come around from being under and feel normal. You don't even know where you are etc. It takes a while. My cat , has had a broken leg and it took him HOURS to get back to normal from being under for less than a few minutes. All they did every week was change his bandages, so it was a small dose. But he couldn't even move without being all drowsy, and his eyes were like aliens for hours. So, if Michael was going under for hours. I can't imagine him being able to then go out and it not being noticable that something was going on. Even hours later... (But hey, I'm not an expert and my cat is a cat, not a human The last time I went under was when I was a kid. Maybe he came around quickly, but if these stories of MJ being weird were true, he probably didn't come around quickly at all)

ANYWAY... I have spoken enough! lol! Regardless of whatever the truth is.

The moment they knew Michael's sleeping habits were so bad that it required a doctor to put him to sleep is when they should have postponed the shows. Or atleast the rehearsals and get him to a clinic. Surely that would benifit AEG too, to have him healthy. They never should have hired him if they were aware of his problems. How could they hire somebody who was a liability? They would lose surely. They are being sued now, and even if he didn't die... what if MJ missed dates or came to a show drowsy?

You can see why they didn't postpone. The world had bought their tickets, the arena had been hired, the money they would lose, it would look terrible for everyone involved (including MJ) and people would be pissed off, but atleast he would be alive if he got help before Conrad's fatal dose.

But, Michael died, the money was lost, they sold us our tickets with holograms on and gave us a funeral booklet so they could keep the price of the tickets to make up for losses.

Whatever the case is, there is no denying they profited off of our grief, including mine. I have my ticket and funeral booklet in a box.

[Edited 5/12/13 14:59pm]

I've never seen this one before, really sweet.

[Edited 5/12/13 15:37pm]

I instagramed this picture from one of my MJ magazines (a Rolling Stone issue).

“Michael Jackson in Fantasy Land” by Anita Kunz (Rolling Stone, September, 1987.)

This is also within the same magazine, a bit of Janet...

Here's the little segment below it.