GoldDolphin said:

duccichucka said:

Can you explain to me what "fake as hell" means and how Justin Timberlake is

consistently throughout his day, "fake as hell" and how that contributes to his music?

Can you then, for the sake of illumination, provide us with a male pop star of this

generation who is not "fake"?

Can you also explain why he's an average singer? This requires you explaining to us what

qualifies as "good" singing and what qualifies as "bad" singing. Please provide examples that

highlight both features of singing, just for the sake, again, of illumination. And can you give us the

rundown on what passes as quality dancing and why it is that Justin Timberlake fails

to meet those standards?

And finally, can you think of any other massive male pop star who had a career as a child singer/

entertainer; whose musical efforts were considered "meh" and "blah" before he finally

hooked up with certain estimable music producers who were just as integral to assisting

him in producing what is considered today as seminal music? I'll give you a hint:

His name rhymes with Schmichael Schmackson.

I'm looking forward to your response!

When I say he is fake as hell, I'm basing it on my perspective on fake, which is basically that his personality portrayed in the media isnt really who he is. This funny joker personality he tries to pull off doesn't work. While it doesn't contribute to his music, it deals with his image which in fact is part of an artists job. This is the same person who said he was going to quit doing music to become an actor and that he was done with music since he had done everything he could...

Well, I'm a music student and again this is the way I think, but since you want to know my opinion, I don't personally hear anything special in his voice. He is an average singer because his vocal timbre isn't really unique and there are other singers who have the same quality and color like his, he also strains his vocals quite often which makes it sound quite nasal. There's also no true passion in his vocals, like other singers but that's OK, it's more about personal preference. (I have to say that I do like listening to Justins music, but I just think he is overhyped!)

His dancing isn't great at all and he doesn't have the grace of a great dancer, nor is he innovative since most of his dance moves are borrowed from other great dancers (that's OK though, if you can pull it off)... I don't want to go in further on his dancing, since I haven't seen much of that lately, but looking back at his NSYNC days and early 00s dance moves, he was just another in the bunch, he didn't dance or move like Omarion(who btw isnt the best dancer either but to compare to another dancer in mainstream music).

To even compare Justin (if that's what you are doing) to the great king of pop, Michael Jackson (admired for his dancing by James Brown, Fred Astaire, Sammy Davis Jr etc) and for his vocal abilities (admired & respected by most Motown singers, 1000s of mainstream artists, Opera singers, Andrew LLoyd Webber, musical artists etc) is not fair at all to poor Justin lol. MJ's career wasn't considered "meh" or "blah" by anyone in the late 70s and there are a lot of news articles that called him "the prince of pop" before he even hooked up with Quincy. The group MJ was in (The Jacksons) were competing with other acts like Earth, Wind & Fire, The Commodors among others, so I dont think MJ was seen as "meh" at all...

His not so greatness is probably what makes him accessable to other people. He doesn't pretend to be great. He's just goofing off, like an average guy. He is an entertainer, like all entertainers they need to know how to dance sing and act.... thats what they get paid for. You get paid if your a person people want to see.

one day he will be sitting in Dave Lettermans seat I bet.

Cuddles said:

one day he will be sitting in Dave Lettermans seat I bet.

Over Neil Patrick Harris's Dead Body.

I would like to see JT and Lorne Michaels do 4 variety shows a year. That would be ratings gold.

lazycrockett said:

Cuddles said:

one day he will be sitting in Dave Lettermans seat I bet.

Over Neil Patrick Harris's Dead Body.

GoldDolphin said:

duccichucka said:

Can you explain to me what "fake as hell" means and how Justin Timberlake is

consistently throughout his day, "fake as hell" and how that contributes to his music?

Can you then, for the sake of illumination, provide us with a male pop star of this

generation who is not "fake"?

Can you also explain why he's an average singer? This requires you explaining to us what

qualifies as "good" singing and what qualifies as "bad" singing. Please provide examples that

highlight both features of singing, just for the sake, again, of illumination. And can you give us the

rundown on what passes as quality dancing and why it is that Justin Timberlake fails

to meet those standards?

And finally, can you think of any other massive male pop star who had a career as a child singer/

entertainer; whose musical efforts were considered "meh" and "blah" before he finally

hooked up with certain estimable music producers who were just as integral to assisting

him in producing what is considered today as seminal music? I'll give you a hint:

His name rhymes with Schmichael Schmackson.

I'm looking forward to your response!

When I say he is fake as hell, I'm basing it on my perspective on fake, which is basically that his personality portrayed in the media isnt really who he is. This funny joker personality he tries to pull off doesn't work. While it doesn't contribute to his music, it deals with his image which in fact is part of an artists job. This is the same person who said he was going to quit doing music to become an actor and that he was done with music since he had done everything he could...

Well, I'm a music student and again this is the way I think, but since you want to know my opinion, I don't personally hear anything special in his voice. He is an average singer because his vocal timbre isn't really unique and there are other singers who have the same quality and color like his, he also strains his vocals quite often which makes it sound quite nasal. There's also no true passion in his vocals, like other singers but that's OK, it's more about personal preference. (I have to say that I do like listening to Justins music, but I just think he is overhyped!)

His dancing isn't great at all and he doesn't have the grace of a great dancer, nor is he innovative since most of his dance moves are borrowed from other great dancers (that's OK though, if you can pull it off)... I don't want to go in further on his dancing, since I haven't seen much of that lately, but looking back at his NSYNC days and early 00s dance moves, he was just another in the bunch, he didn't dance or move like Omarion(who btw isnt the best dancer either but to compare to another dancer in mainstream music).

To even compare Justin (if that's what you are doing) to the great king of pop, Michael Jackson (admired for his dancing by James Brown, Fred Astaire, Sammy Davis Jr etc) and for his vocal abilities (admired & respected by most Motown singers, 1000s of mainstream artists, Opera singers, Andrew LLoyd Webber, musical artists etc) is not fair at all to poor Justin lol. MJ's career wasn't considered "meh" or "blah" by anyone in the late 70s and there are a lot of news articles that called him "the prince of pop" before he even hooked up with Quincy. The group MJ was in (The Jacksons) were competing with other acts like Earth, Wind & Fire, The Commodors among others, so I dont think MJ was seen as "meh" at all...

When I say he is fake as hell, I'm basing it on my perspective on fake, which is basically that his personality portrayed in the media isnt really who he is.

Who is Justin Timberlake really? You know him intimately? And this facade that you claim

he's adopting in an effort to hide his true personality - you think it detracts from his music?

How so? Why does he have to show his "true colors" in order to be taken seriously as a

musician? I don't see the connect. Beethoven and Prince were/are complete assholes - yet

they both made/make great music. If I find out that my favorite songwriter at the moment,

Van Hunt, is "faking it" for the sake of popularity, I wouldn't care at all. I'm only interested in

his music, not his personal life. But that's just me!

Well, I'm a music student

I study jazz piano and classical composition - so me too! Finally! I can have a conversation

about music in this thread with someone who knows what they are talking about!

I don't personally hear anything special in his voice. He is an average singer because his vocal timbre isn't really unique and there are other singers who have the same quality and color like his, he also strains his vocals quite often which makes it sound quite nasal. There's also no true passion in his vocals, like other singers but that's OK, it's more about personal preference.

I agree - Timberlake does have a nasally quality to his voice. And yeah, I guess it can certainly

be a bit distracting. Sometimes I think Michael Jackson's vocal quivering, hiccups and neologisms,

such as "cha-mon!", are a bit distracting too. But as long as you realize that singers are blessed

with timbre that you either prefer or don't, that's cool!

His dancing isn't great at all and he doesn't have the grace of a great dancer, nor is he innovative since most of his dance moves are borrowed from other great dancers

What constitutes as great dancing? What is it about Timberlake's dancing that allows you to

think it's not innovative or great? You must have a reason for saying these things; you must

have an example of someone who dances great and is a great innovative dancer and therefore,

a qualified big male pop star of a particular generation, right?!

People tend to forget that Off The Wall was not Michael Jackson's debut album. The solo

albums he had leading up to it were not as highly esteemed as what followed after OtW.

People tend to forget that the Michael Jackson who set the world afire with OfW, Thriller,

Bad and Dangerous, was just as much as a product that was resultant of innovative and

sound producing (Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton, Teddy Riley) that Justin Timberlake is!

So no - I'm not comparing the talents, legacy and music of Justin Timberlake to Michael

Jackson. I'm simply stating that:

1. Most of y'all who have great and intense dislike for JT cannot articulate why you do have

such a great and intense dislike for JT other than stating "It's my opinion! It's my preference!"

This argument is just as valid as stating "I like Justin Timberlake - it's my opinion! It's my

preference!"

2. Michael Jackson's work with Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton, and Teddy Riley is just as integral

to his music as is Justin Timberlake's work with Timbaland and the Neptunes. On his own, MJ

is entirely incapable of producing Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous. The same can be

said for Timberlake or Timberfake or whatever it is you haters are calling him these days!

The problem I'm having with this thread and the other Justin Timberlake threads in this

forum is that there are a handful of "taste makers" who believe they have been stricken

with the task of opining as to what is to pass for quality music here; and if you are in

disagreement with them, somehow you're stupid or you have some sadistic penchant for

being the butt of jokes and I just think that's silly! I think being made fun of, or

being castigated for liking a musician, is just so lame. But I think I understand the vitriol for

those of you who hate him!

duccichucka said:

Who is Justin Timberlake really? You know him intimately? And this facade that you claim

he's adopting in an effort to hide his true personality - you think it detracts from his music?

How so? Why does he have to show his "true colors" in order to be taken seriously as a

musician? I don't see the connect. Beethoven and Prince were/are complete assholes - yet

they both made/make great music. If I find out that my favorite songwriter at the moment,

Van Hunt, is "faking it" for the sake of popularity, I wouldn't care at all. I'm only interested in

his music, not his personal life. But that's just me!

For one thing, his image is very contrived. With his new album he is trying to swagger jack Maxwell and Robin Thicke. He wants to come off like a serious artist and he isnt. He does this with each album. His always stealing someones style. He cant never be original.

Now I already said his music is better than his peers which is mainly because of his producers

But

No his not innovative

No his not original

No his nota genius

Artists like D Angelo, Mayer Hawthrone, Maxwell etc make much better music and are more serious artists which is why I dont get the fascination with Justin on the org.

I dont get the fascination with alot of artists on the org to be honest

I feel if he wants to come off so pretentious than he is going to need stronger songs and a more convincing artistic image and not recycled ones. Also, not doing things to get played on the radio like hooking up with Gay Z for suit and tie and for a tour. I dont take none of that seriously That is all commercially motively driven and nothing artistic about it. Its VERY fake

The reason why people dont like Justin personality wise is because he is very phoney and he has trashed alot of people that he called his friends. For crying out loud he even trashed his own bandmates and even said out his mouth he wants to forget Nsync and that portion of his career Why would you want to forget something that help you become what you are today and not even acknowledge your OWN bandmates?

He comes off very snobbish and fake. It was also messed up how he did Janet and MJ. He is an example of what we would call a fairweather friend. He doesnt care about anybody but himself (and thats fine) but I am not going to just sit here and allow people to paint Justin as the guy from next door when he isnt.

duccichucka said:

I agree - Timberlake does have a nasally quality to his voice. And yeah, I guess it can certainly

be a bit distracting. Sometimes I think Michael Jackson's vocal quivering, hiccups and neologisms,

such as "cha-mon!", are a bit distracting too. But as long as you realize that singers are blessed

with timbre that you either prefer or don't, that's cool!

What does Michael Jackson's vocal talent have to do with Justin Timberlakes?

Michael Jackson's different singing styles influenced an entire generation.

When and if Justin has the same impact as a singer 40 years from now than maybe you can place them in the same sentence but until then you cant

MJs singing styles can be argued but there is no question he was one of the best pop singers of all time.

Justin on the other hand is a very mediocre average at best singer. I dont even see why you would even use MJ as an example. Singing style and having vocal talent are two different things.

duccichucka said:

What constitutes as great dancing? What is it about Timberlake's dancing that allows you to

think it's not innovative or great? You must have a reason for saying these things; you must

have an example of someone who dances great and is a great innovative dancer and therefore,

a qualified big male pop star of a particular generation, right?!

Are you serious with this post?

There are a MILLION dancers that can be compared to Justin Timberlake NOT just MJ People use MJ as an example because he is the best male pop singer that also danced. He is the BLUEPRINT of all the male pop performers of todays generation but there are millions of dancers than can be used as an example being we are judging dancing skill and talent

I wouldnt dare compare Justin to MJ, Gene Kelly, Fred Astair, Nicholas Brothers, James Brown etc because he is not on that level of dance talent or showmanship

From his generation Chris Brown, Usher, Omarion etc Justin is the weakest when it comes to strictly dancing. He does not have the same level of athleticism and precision as them. He doesnt even dance enough... to argue that he is a great dancer! I just judge his dancing ability on his old band days and a few performances he did during Justified era which were mediocre dance moves and sloppy. He doesnt do as nearly as much complicated choregraphy and intricate movements as Janet and even Ciara does.

People tend to forget that Off The Wall was not Michael Jackson's debut album. The solo

albums he had leading up to it were not as highly esteemed as what followed after OtW.

People tend to forget that the Michael Jackson who set the world afire with OfW, Thriller,

Bad and Dangerous, was just as much as a product that was resultant of innovative and

sound producing (Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton, Teddy Riley) that Justin Timberlake is!

Once again, what does Michael Jackson have to do with this discussion?

Why are you trying to bring Michael Jackson down to excuse Justin Timberlake mediocrity?

MJ's Motown albums before Off The Wall have a handful of CLASSICS and still get played on the radio today. They are even held as influential by alot of singers of today even non pop singers. Michaels vocals on those albums are some of the best vocals of his career.

ALSO,

Michael Jackson is a REAL ARTIST UNLIKE Timberfake.

Michael wrote most of the songs on those albums as well as produced a handful of those songs. He came up with original and creative concepts, themes, lyrics, videos etc for each of these albums. They were not CONTROLLED BY JUST QUINCY.

I dont even know why I am going back and forth with you... You always stay stupid shit like this just to get arise out of people.

You Know good and damn well MJ and Justin do not belong in the same sentence.

And you are pathetic with insisting MJ and Justin are the same.

CRACK IS WACK!

So no - I'm not comparing the talents, legacy and music of Justin Timberlake to Michael

Jackson. I'm simply stating that:

BULLSHIT.

You just sat up here and basically dismissed all of MJs solo Motown albums, vocal style and talent and implied him and Justin were the same

You have really lost your damn mind

1. Most of y'all who have great and intense dislike for JT cannot articulate why you do have

such a great and intense dislike for JT other than stating "It's my opinion! It's my preference!"

This argument is just as valid as stating "I like Justin Timberlake - it's my opinion! It's my

preference!"

You must cant read I already said the man has better music than his peers (but thats not saying much considering this is the worse era for music) . I acknowledged that like 20 times already in various threads

BUT NO he is not a genius

NO he is not innovative

NO he is not THAT creative

NO he can not dance

NO he is not a real artist like the past greats

NO he is not the best pop male artist of his generation

NO he is not MJ

NO he is not Prince

No he is not Stevie Wonder

The industry is fucked up now. So they want to give everybody a title and call everything great even when it is just okay. Justin is an average singer that makes descent music thanks to his producers. He is not a good dancer and an okay actor. I really want to say something but I wont because I dont feel like going back and forth with you crazy ass people.

2. Michael Jackson's work with Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton, and Teddy Riley is just as integral

to his music as is Justin Timberlake's work with Timbaland and the Neptunes. On his own, MJ

is entirely incapable of producing Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous. The same can be

said for Timberlake or Timberfake or whatever it is you haters are calling him these days!

WHY are you comparing MJ to Justin Timberlake..... AGAIN

CONTRADICTIONS CONTRADICTIONS CONTRADICTIONS

Michael Jackson produced alot of his own songs and he has even produced for OTHER artists. Michael created all of the demos on the BAD album (MJ has co credit for BAD) and some of the demos on OTW and Thriller that Quincy just polished

Michael wrote 90 percent of the songs on ALL those albums and had full artistic control of the songs and themes.

The problem I'm having with this thread and the other Justin Timberlake threads in this

forum is that there are a handful of "taste makers" who believe they have been stricken

with the task of opining as to what is to pass for quality music here; and if you are in

disagreement with them, somehow you're stupid or you have some sadistic penchant for

being the butt of jokes and I just think that's silly! I think being made fun of, or

being castigated for liking a musician, is just so lame. But I think I understand the vitriol for

those of you who hate him!

I think your the one thats stupid.

You sat up here and trashed Michael Jackson and basically minimized his talent and IMPACT to make Justin look better.

Its not about hate, Justin Timberlake is overrated plain and simple.

And after this you can carry on because you are delusional with your views.

mjscarousal said:

duccichucka said:

Who is Justin Timberlake really? You know him intimately? And this facade that you claim

he's adopting in an effort to hide his true personality - you think it detracts from his music?

How so? Why does he have to show his "true colors" in order to be taken seriously as a

musician? I don't see the connect. Beethoven and Prince were/are complete assholes - yet

they both made/make great music. If I find out that my favorite songwriter at the moment,

Van Hunt, is "faking it" for the sake of popularity, I wouldn't care at all. I'm only interested in

his music, not his personal life. But that's just me!

For one thing, his image is very contrived. With his new album he is trying to swagger jack Maxwell and Robin Thicke. He wants to come off like a serious artist and he isnt. He does this with each album. His always stealing someones style. He cant never be original.

Now I already said his music is better than his peers which is mainly because of his producers

But

No his not innovative

No his not original

No his nota genius

Artists like D Angelo, Mayer Hawthrone, Maxwell etc make much better music and are more serious artists which is why I dont get the fascination with Justin on the org.

I dont get the fascination with alot of artists on the org to be honest

I feel if he wants to come off so pretentious than he is going to need stronger songs and a more convincing artistic image and not recycled ones. Also, not doing things to get played on the radio like hooking up with Gay Z for suit and tie and for a tour. I dont take none of that seriously That is all commercially motively driven and nothing artistic about it. Its VERY fake

The reason why people dont like Justin personality wise is because he is very phoney and he has trashed alot of people that he called his friends. For crying out loud he even trashed his own bandmates and even said out his mouth he wants to forget Nsync and that portion of his career Why would you want to forget something that help you become what you are today and not even acknowledge your OWN bandmates?

He comes off very snobbish and fake. It was also messed up how he did Janet and MJ. He is an example of what we would call a fairweather friend. He doesnt care about anybody but himself (and thats fine) but I am not going to just sit here and allow people to paint Justin as the guy from next door when he isnt.

WHY are you comparing MJ to Justin Timberlake..... AGAIN

CONTRADICTIONS CONTRADICTIONS CONTRADICTIONS

Michael Jackson produced alot of his own songs and he has even produced for OTHER artists. Michael created all of the demos on the BAD album (MJ has co credit for BAD) and some of the demos on OTW and Thriller that Quincy just polished

Michael wrote 90 percent of the songs on ALL those albums and had full artistic control of the songs and themes.

The problem I'm having with this thread and the other Justin Timberlake threads in this

forum is that there are a handful of "taste makers" who believe they have been stricken

with the task of opining as to what is to pass for quality music here; and if you are in

disagreement with them, somehow you're stupid or you have some sadistic penchant for

being the butt of jokes and I just think that's silly! I think being made fun of, or

being castigated for liking a musician, is just so lame. But I think I understand the vitriol for

those of you who hate him!

I think your the one thats stupid.

You sat up here and trashed Michael Jackson and basically minimized his talent and IMPACT to make Justin look better.

Its not about hate, Justin Timberlake is overrated plain and simple.

And after this you can carry on because you are delusional with your views.

you have stated your view over and over, now it's time to shut the fuck up

Cuddles said:

mjscarousal said:

I think your the one thats stupid.

You sat up here and trashed Michael Jackson and basically minimized his talent and IMPACT to make Justin look better.

Its not about hate, Justin Timberlake is overrated plain and simple.

And after this you can carry on because you are delusional with your views.

now it's time for me to shut the fuck up

You should shut the fuck up and while your at it stop posting Justin Timberlake photos in every thread

[Edited 3/21/13 13:31pm]

mjscarousal said:

Cuddles said:

now it's time for me to shut the fuck up

You should shut the fuck up and while your at it stop posting Justin Timberlake photos in every thread

[Edited 3/21/13 13:31pm]

okay, at least we can come to some kind of arrangment/agreemnet then.

Cuddles said:

mjscarousal said:

You should shut the fuck up and while your at it stop posting Justin Timberlake photos in every thread

[Edited 3/21/13 13:31pm]

okay, at least we can come to some kind of arrangment/agreemnet then.

I dont know what your problem is... but I cant help you

He made a post ...I disagreed and I just simply responded.

If your tired of people bashing JT then you need to tell posters to stop making a million threads on him here because I am not going to stop replying to comments I disagree with , sorry.

mjscarousal said:

Cuddles said:

okay, at least we can come to some kind of arrangment/agreemnet then.

I dont know what your problem is... but I cant help you

He made a post ...I disagreed and I just simply responded.

If your tired of people bashing JT then you need to tell posters to stop making a million threads on him here because I am not going to stop replying to comments I disagree with , sorry.

o tay

mjscarousal said:

duccichucka said:

Who is Justin Timberlake really? You know him intimately? And this facade that you claim

he's adopting in an effort to hide his true personality - you think it detracts from his music?

How so? Why does he have to show his "true colors" in order to be taken seriously as a

musician? I don't see the connect. Beethoven and Prince were/are complete assholes - yet

they both made/make great music. If I find out that my favorite songwriter at the moment,

Van Hunt, is "faking it" for the sake of popularity, I wouldn't care at all. I'm only interested in

his music, not his personal life. But that's just me!

For one thing, his image is very contrived. With his new album he is trying to swagger jack Maxwell and Robin Thicke. He wants to come off like a serious artist and he isnt. He does this with each album. His always stealing someones style. He cant never be original.

Now I already said his music is better than his peers which is mainly because of his producers

But

No his not innovative

No his not original

No his nota genius

Artists like D Angelo, Mayer Hawthrone, Maxwell etc make much better music and are more serious artists which is why I dont get the fascination with Justin on the org.

I dont get the fascination with alot of artists on the org to be honest

I feel if he wants to come off so pretentious than he is going to need stronger songs and a more convincing artistic image and not recycled ones. Also, not doing things to get played on the radio like hooking up with Gay Z for suit and tie and for a tour. I dont take none of that seriously That is all commercially motively driven and nothing artistic about it. Its VERY fake

The reason why people dont like Justin personality wise is because he is very phoney and he has trashed alot of people that he called his friends. For crying out loud he even trashed his own bandmates and even said out his mouth he wants to forget Nsync and that portion of his career Why would you want to forget something that help you become what you are today and not even acknowledge your OWN bandmates?

He comes off very snobbish and fake. It was also messed up how he did Janet and MJ. He is an example of what we would call a fairweather friend. He doesnt care about anybody but himself (and thats fine) but I am not going to just sit here and allow people to paint Justin as the guy from next door when he isnt.

WHY are you comparing MJ to Justin Timberlake..... AGAIN

CONTRADICTIONS CONTRADICTIONS CONTRADICTIONS

Michael Jackson produced alot of his own songs and he has even produced for OTHER artists. Michael created all of the demos on the BAD album (MJ has co credit for BAD) and some of the demos on OTW and Thriller that Quincy just polished

Michael wrote 90 percent of the songs on ALL those albums and had full artistic control of the songs and themes.

The problem I'm having with this thread and the other Justin Timberlake threads in this

forum is that there are a handful of "taste makers" who believe they have been stricken

with the task of opining as to what is to pass for quality music here; and if you are in

disagreement with them, somehow you're stupid or you have some sadistic penchant for

being the butt of jokes and I just think that's silly! I think being made fun of, or

being castigated for liking a musician, is just so lame. But I think I understand the vitriol for

those of you who hate him!

I think your the one thats stupid.

You sat up here and trashed Michael Jackson and basically minimized his talent and IMPACT to make Justin look better.

Its not about hate, Justin Timberlake is overrated plain and simple.

And after this you can carry on because you are delusional with your views.

Why are you so hot and bothered? I never said that Justin Timberlake was a genius.

I don't think he is! But I do think that you have been unable to intelligently articulate

what it is about Justin Timberlake that you don't like other than to yell and scream

petulantly like a 20 year old child!

Calm down, okay?

The style that Justin Timberlake is adopting in an effort to sell his record is not one that

was founded by Robin Thicke or Maxwell. It's a Rat Pack look! And who cares about his

"look" anyways? What does that have to do with his music? How is he coming off as if

he wants to be taken seriously as an artist? How is he showing us that he's contrived?

I dunno...a look isn't that important to me. But anyways - you can't have an intelligent

conversation by just making claims without any which are supportive. So, if Justin

Timberlake is contrived, tell us how that is the case.

Please tell us, calmly, how Maxwell, Mayer Hawthorne, and D'Angelo are making better

music and are much better artists? You keep making these claims, but you haven't

backed up any of them with facts! Explain what "good music" is, how it is that those

artists you like make "good music" and then give us a demonstration of how Justin

Timberlake fails to produce music that lives up to this standard of yours. I am especially

interested in how you can illustrate what makes Justin Timberlake's music "bad"

unambiguously and universally!

I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying about MJ. I'm not denigrating his legacy

at all in an effort to show that he's similar to Justin Timberlake. I'm simply stating that

if you are going to slight Justin Timberlake for sounding like his producers, then you

have to level the same charge against Michael Jackson, who relied heavily on the work

and influence of his own notable producers as well!

What is going on in this forum that people are being attacked for liking music that others

deem unworthy? This girl called me "stupid" for defending Justin Timberlake.

LOL!

^How could a site dedicated to music know more than some org members?????????

Ghostface Killa, who consistently renders my favorite album reviews, actually gave

20/20 three Zeus slaps outta five.

He took a lot of heat from his fans for even listening to the record. Told them to kiss his

ass, in his oh-so-distinct-style, of course!

duccichucka said:

mjscarousal said:

I think your the one thats stupid.

You sat up here and trashed Michael Jackson and basically minimized his talent and IMPACT to make Justin look better.

Its not about hate, Justin Timberlake is overrated plain and simple.

And after this you can carry on because you are delusional with your views.

Why are you so hot and bothered? I never said that Justin Timberlake was a genius.

I don't think he is! But I do think that you have been unable to intelligently articulate

what it is about Justin Timberlake that you don't like other than to yell and scream

petulantly like a 20 year old child!

Calm down, okay?

The style that Justin Timberlake is adopting in an effort to sell his record is not one that

was founded by Robin Thicke or Maxwell. It's a Rat Pack look! And who cares about his

"look" anyways? What does that have to do with his music? How is he coming off as if

he wants to be taken seriously as an artist? How is he showing us that he's contrived?

I dunno...a look isn't that important to me. But anyways - you can't have an intelligent

conversation by just making claims without any which are supportive. So, if Justin

Timberlake is contrived, tell us how that is the case.

Please tell us, calmly, how Maxwell, Mayer Hawthorne, and D'Angelo are making better

music and are much better artists? You keep making these claims, but you haven't

backed up any of them with facts! Explain what "good music" is, how it is that those

artists you like make "good music" and then give us a demonstration of how Justin

Timberlake fails to produce music that lives up to this standard of yours. I am especially

interested in how you can illustrate what makes Justin Timberlake's music "bad"

unambiguously and universally!

I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying about MJ. I'm not denigrating his legacy

at all in an effort to show that he's similar to Justin Timberlake. I'm simply stating that

if you are going to slight Justin Timberlake for sounding like his producers, then you

have to level the same charge against Michael Jackson, who relied heavily on the work

and influence of his own notable producers as well!

What is going on in this forum that people are being attacked for liking music that others

deem unworthy? This girl called me "stupid" for defending Justin Timberlake.

LOL!

Hun, I am laughing because this whole thing is funny to me. All the JT troll baited threads and the trolls posting all these JT pics in every thread.. its funny to me. I am not loosing sleep over this immaturity. The only one that is acting like a child is you and a couple of others who have consistently harrassed people over their opinions on JT.

If you like his new album... GOOD FOR YOU but just because some dont and dont think he walks on water doesnt mean their hating or should be bashed.

Where did I say Justin makes "bad" music?

I have said multiple times that Justin makes better music than HIS peers i.e Beyonce, Rihanna, Katy Perry, Justin Bieber or did you miss those 5 other posts? I even said I liked some of his music so I dont know where you got that from.

I think you just want to argue with me because all these things you are claiming I said I didnt

With that being said, there are better artists such as the ones that I listed who are artistically creative, write their own music, plays instruments and dont make songs for the radio. They push themselves with each album and do different things. I just think its important to acknowledge more talented artists that are more hands on with their music and dont just rely on their producers. I just think its important because in todays industry most pop singers are always being hyped as the next best thing when their talent and catalogue does not reflect that. Its sad we have really creative artists that dont get the same attention that deserve it more than them.

I shouldnt have to explain why those artists are better because YOU KNOW why those aritsts are better. I dont even considered JT a real artist... he is just a personality that relies heavily on producers for his sound. He does not write any of his music or comes up with original album concepts or ideas.

I just simply argued that he was not a genius and his music is not innovative... and it isnt. His producers are just recycling sounds and music that has already been done before. He is not doing anything musically that warrants any pretentious title or to be called a genius.

What needs explanation in that? Its pretty straight forward

On the MJ bit: You did minimize MJs input on his albums. MJ is an artist... JT is not. MJ wrote 90 percent of his catalogue, made demos and melodies for his songs using HIS MOUTH and beat boxing, and instruments.. also most of the demos for Quincy MJ did BEFORE it even got to Quincy AT HIS HOME... so please explain to me how that is the same as JT who doesnt do anything and relies on his producers to do everything and come up with song arrangements, melodies and lyrics?

I am just baffled at someone who throws a bitch fit at anyone who using the word genius would compare Justin Timberlake to Michael Jackson. You say that you are not trying to minimize MJs abilities but YOU ARE when you do that.

mjscarousal said:

The only one that is acting like a child is you and a couple of others who have consistently harrassed people over their opinions on JT.

How am I acting like a child? Who have I harassed? I haven't called anybody stupid for

liking or disliking any artist. I'm only asking you to make your claims less feculent.

With that being said, there are better artists such as the ones that I listed who are artistically creative, write their own music, plays instruments and dont make songs for the radio.

How are they "better" than Justin Timberlake? And you are tacitly stating that because he

makes pop music, or music that is created to be played on the radio, this makes him not

one of those who are "better." Why is this the case?

They push themselves with each album and do different things.

Give us an example of why you think Timberlake is not doing these things!

I just think its important to acknowledge more talented artists that are more hands on with their music and dont just rely on their producers.

Like who? Why is this important to you?

I just think its important because in todays industry most pop singers are always being hyped as the next best thing when their talent and catalogue does not reflect that.

So, how is this the case with Justin Timberlake?

Its sad we have really creative artists that dont get the same attention that deserve it more than them.

So Justin Timberlake, who you think is not as talented as an artist who crafts their own music,

does not rely on a producer (Maxwell relies on a producer, Usher does, Michael Jackson did,

I can go on and on) and isn't "real," releases shitty music anyways? How is this the case?

I shouldnt have to explain why those artists are better because YOU KNOW why those aritsts are better.

In a conversation with me, yes you do have to explain. Look, everyone has an opinion. But

that doesn't mean that your opinion can't be uninformed! You have to explain to my why certain

artists are better than another if you're going to claim that certain artists are better than others

in the first place! If you are going to say that JT is not innovative, not creative, not real, and

undeserving of the media hype he's been given, you're gonna have to do some 'splaining!

I dont even considered JT a real artist... he is just a personality that relies heavily on producers for his sound. He does not write any of his music or comes up with original album concepts or ideas.

How is this the case? What makes a "real artist"? I'm asking you to clarify these statements

you're making for the sake of an intelligent exchange of ideas, you know what I mean?!

Who are these "real artists?" What makes them more "real" than Timberlake?

I'm sorry if you don't understand how I'm arguing that Michael Jackson's reliance on Quincy

Jones and Rod Temperton and Teddy Riley and R. Kelly was just as componential to his

music as Justin Timberlake's reliance on his own producers! I'm in no way making a comparison

between the music of MJ to JT - I'm only comparing their methodology.

There's room for a dialectical conversation if you just stop being so mean and rude, ya know?!

I've approached you with respect, so I'd like the same.

Thanks!

imo Justin Timberlake is kind of like a "new-age elvis." he learned to mimic the black urban r/b sounds (marvin gaye's and prince's tonal qualities, he also copied michael jackson's dance moves) , and infused all the above into his own style - thus creating who he became as an artist.

just like elvis infused his style from early blues and r/b singers, justin is a great infuser too.

however, i do have to give justin his props for his dance skills. from the time he was in n'sync, he stood out as the best dancer in the group. the boy had great on the one rhythm as he moved to the music. from the beginning justin was the star of n'sync imo.

see:http://www.mtv.com/artist...fluencedBy

duccichucka said:

In a conversation with me, yes you do have to explain. Look, everyone has an opinion. But

that doesn't mean that your opinion can't be uninformed! You have to explain to my why certain

artists are better than another if you're going to claim that certain artists are better than others

in the first place! If you are going to say that JT is not innovative, not creative, not real, and

undeserving of the media hype he's been given, you're gonna have to do some 'splaining!

What is it that your confused about?

Because I think Ive been pretty clear on my opinion related to this topic. I think I have given a ton of explanations on why I feel the way I feel. I dont know what you want me say at this point

How is this the case? What makes a "real artist"? I'm asking you to clarify these statements

you're making for the sake of an intelligent exchange of ideas, you know what I mean?!

Who are these "real artists?" What makes them more "real" than Timberlake?

Have you been reading my posts?

Did you see the examples of artists that I gave and explanations on why they are more so artists than Justin and vice versa?

Yes your right, there is nothing wrong with clarifying points and explaining points but I have done that and I am not going to go above and beyond to do more than what I have already done.

I am not going to repeat myself in circles

I'm sorry if you don't understand how I'm arguing that Michael Jackson's reliance on Quincy

Jones and Rod Temperton and Teddy Riley and R. Kelly was just as componential to his

music as Justin Timberlake's reliance on his own producers! I'm in no way making a comparison

between the music of MJ to JT - I'm only comparing their methodology.

I GET THAT POINT..... but did you read how I explained in detail how MJs music making process is different from JTs? I just think its a generic arguement to argue that MJ used producers just like JT did when JT does not write 100 songs every album or co produces his albums etc.

You are implying that MJ relied on his producers for EVERYTHING and that is NOT true! There music making processes are DIFFERENT which is why it is absurd that you would compare them in the first place!!!!

Are you reading my posts!?!?!?! or are you just reading what you want??

I explained all this in detail in my last reply

There's room for a dialectical conversation if you just stop being so mean and rude, ya know?!

I've approached you with respect, so I'd like the same.

Thanks!

Have I cussed you out?

Did I call you out your name?

Please, I have not been rude or mean to you...

I think your MJ comparision is ridiculous and irrelevant.

Its like comparing the sun to a flashlight.. WHY DO IT?

How am I acting like a child? Who have I harassed? I haven't called anybody stupid for

liking or disliking any artist. I'm only asking you to make your claims less feculent.

Because you have consistently bashed people for their constructive criticism on JT. You have said yourself that you are confused as to why people dont care for him. (I dont know why because I think some of these posts have been pretty clear). I dont see why people HAVE to like him. People should be free to have their own opinions without people questioning them with why they feel a certain way especially after they have explained their opinion.

How are they "better" than Justin Timberlake? And you are tacitly stating that because he

makes pop music, or music that is created to be played on the radio, this makes him not

one of those who are "better." Why is this the case?

I already explained why there better.

I love pop music (I dont particularly care for the pop music on Top 40 radio TODAY but I do love old pop music) so thats not my issue

The artists I mentioned dont care about hits or being number one. They seem to be more sincere with their music and more interested in creating music because they enjoy it and not for accolades. For example, JT clearly hooked up with Jay Z for Suit and Tie to get a hit because Jayz is a popular rapper. His rap verse does not flow with the song at all. He did not have to be on the song. I dont think he wanted to work with Jay Z for artistic reasons, if that makes sense. It was all stragetically planned for marketing reasons just like that tour. When those other artists collaborate they usually do for artistic reasons.

Give us an example of why you think Timberlake is not doing these things!

I am just going to put it to you like this.

If someone is calling an artist a genius than there material should reflect that.

The songs Ive heard on the new album sound like recycled songs from his previous albums. I do like Pusher Lover Girl but I dont think its something to jump up and down about. I dont think he should be called a genius for it. I dont even thing D Angelo, Maxwell (who are far talented than JT) are geniuses so why is it acceptable for Justin Timberlake to be called a genius?

I just feel he releases descent music but since the pop industry is so bad he gets alot more credit and praise than what he deserves.

I dont think his music is groundbreaking. He copies MJ and Prince and has some soul influences but so does alot of other artists and are far more creative with those influences.

I just think its important to acknowledge more talented artists that are more hands on with their music and dont just rely on their producers.

Like the artists I mentioned.

Also, when I say hands on I am referring to songwriting, coming up with song ideas, concepts, melodies, lyrics etc basically singers that have alot of input and direction in their music and are not just force fed everything.

I think it is important because there so many singers that are overrated that dont do any of that. Those singers are not real artists and are just puppets, media stars and products which is why the industry is so jacked up today.

Its unfair how those real artists get snubbed and overlooked because they dont have the marketing and backing as those products.

So, how is this the case with Justin Timberlake?

What do you mean how is this the case?

He IS being compared to legendary artists! People are calling him a genius!!!

So you better believe people are going to be overcritical.

And I think its warranted.

So Justin Timberlake, who you think is not as talented as an artist who crafts their own music,

does not rely on a producer (Maxwell relies on a producer, Usher does, Michael Jackson did,

I can go on and on) and isn't "real," releases shitty music anyways? How is this the case?

I answered this in my last reply and even in a post above.

mjscarousal said:

duccichucka said:

In a conversation with me, yes you do have to explain. Look, everyone has an opinion. But

that doesn't mean that your opinion can't be uninformed! You have to explain to my why certain

artists are better than another if you're going to claim that certain artists are better than others

in the first place! If you are going to say that JT is not innovative, not creative, not real, and

undeserving of the media hype he's been given, you're gonna have to do some 'splaining!

What is it that your confused about?

Because I think Ive been pretty clear on my opinion related to this topic. I think I have given a ton of explanations on why I feel the way I feel. I dont know what you want me say at this point

What do you mean how is this the case?

He IS being compared to legendary artists! People are calling him a genius!!!

So you better believe people are going to be overcritical.

And I think its warranted.

So Justin Timberlake, who you think is not as talented as an artist who crafts their own music,

does not rely on a producer (Maxwell relies on a producer, Usher does, Michael Jackson did,

I can go on and on) and isn't "real," releases shitty music anyways? How is this the case?

I answered this in my last reply and even in a post above.

who was the musical genius during the 1910's?

mjscarousal said:

duccichucka said:

In a conversation with me, yes you do have to explain. Look, everyone has an opinion. But

that doesn't mean that your opinion can't be uninformed! You have to explain to my why certain

artists are better than another if you're going to claim that certain artists are better than others

in the first place! If you are going to say that JT is not innovative, not creative, not real, and

undeserving of the media hype he's been given, you're gonna have to do some 'splaining!

What is it that your confused about?

Because I think Ive been pretty clear on my opinion related to this topic. I think I have given a ton of explanations on why I feel the way I feel. I dont know what you want me say at this point

What do you mean how is this the case?

He IS being compared to legendary artists! People are calling him a genius!!!

So you better believe people are going to be overcritical.

And I think its warranted.

So Justin Timberlake, who you think is not as talented as an artist who crafts their own music,

does not rely on a producer (Maxwell relies on a producer, Usher does, Michael Jackson did,

I can go on and on) and isn't "real," releases shitty music anyways? How is this the case?

I answered this in my last reply and even in a post above.

I'm not calling Timberlake a genius - please stop relying on what others have opined as a

basis for our conversation. Thanks! It makes our conversation much easier to follow!

I've read your posts, including the one where you called me stupid, and I've yet to see you

provide a detailed analysis as to what constitutes a "real artist" and how Timberlake isn't

one of them. How do you know that he doesn't write his own lyrics or melodies? Are you

in the studio when recording has commenced?

The songs Ive heard on the new album sound like recycled songs from his previous albums. I do like Pusher Lover Girl but I dont think its something to jump up and down about. I dont think he should be called a genius for it. I dont even thing D Angelo, Maxwell (who are far talented than JT) are geniuses so why is it acceptable for Justin Timberlake to be called a genius?

Okay. Now we are getting somewhere. What you should do here is tell us how the songs sound

like recycled songs from his previous albums. For the record: I never said Timberlake was

a genius, okay? So don't use/or create a straw man argument here. Also, can you explain how

you measure talent and how Timberlake's talent is not as high as D'Angelo or Maxwell? How

can you tell when one artist is beter than another or has more talent? What set of universal

criteria are you using here?

I just feel he releases descent music but since the pop industry is so bad he gets alot more credit and praise than what he deserves.

This is great! What you should do here is again, elaborate what you mean by this. I dunno;

maybe JT does receive more credit than he deserves. But you have to be elaborative: tell

us how this is true! Tell us what is "decent" music, and how is Timberlake's music "decent?"

I dont think his music is groundbreaking. He copies MJ and Prince and has some soul influences but so does alot of other artists and are far more creative with those influences.

What makes music groundbreaking? And how is Timberlake's music not groundbreaking? And

why does good music have to be groundbreaking in order to be worthy of credible press?

Why is displaying an overt influence a hindrance to Timberlake's music?

Now, I know you're not just a loudmouth who thinks that her musical taste is superior to

others, but when is called out to render an explanation for liking or disliking a recording

artist by someone whose got a little more sense/patience than most of the posters here at

the org, falls back on "it's my opinion and I've already stated it in another response, so deal

with it" type of Prince org member. I want to learn from you!

HAPPYPERSON said:

Content Section

How Justin Became King

by Andrew RomanoMar 19, 2013 4:45 AM EDT

Timberlake is the only male pop star worth talking about, so why has it taken so long to acknowledge his genius? In Newsweek, Andrew Romano on the man preternaturally in tune with the times.

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Justin Timberlake is our biggest male pop star. I realized this for the first time the other day. It hit me during the final leg of Timberlake’s dizzying campaign to promote The 20/20 Experience, his first LP in nearly seven years, which comes out March 19. He’d just hosted Saturday Night Live and was about to begin a weeklong stint on Jimmy Fallon; at that point I half-expected him to burst forth from my recycling bin with a winning smile and stack of CDs under his arm. I’m not sure why it took me so long to size up Timberlake’s stardom. Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, and Rihanna are bigger, of course, but they are very much not boys. Usher is a bore these days. Bruno Mars could evaporate at any moment. And Justin Bieber is still trapped in Tiger Beat territory. Timberlake is all we have.

When Timberlake sings about getting “all pressed up in black and white,” he expresses the Millennial desire for the authenticity of time tested classicism. (Christie Goodwin/Redferns, via Getty)

And yet for some reason we have been slow to acknowledge his place in the pop cosmos—not just me, but the culture at large. Most of the talk about Timberlake still centers on his improbable transformation from *NSYNC puff pastry—tight blond curls, paint-splattered jeans, matching diamond studs—to a credible, grown-up R&B artist. But the metamorphosis itself is old news. What hasn’t been adequately examined is the position he now occupies as our era’s equivalent of a Michael Jackson or an Elvis Presley, as strange as that sounds. I’m not just referring to the 17 million records Timberlake has sold, or the seven inventive, unshakable singles he’s released since the start of the 21st century. Every star reflects the generation that produces and sustains him: its character and its neuroses, its needs and its wants. So why have we settled on Justin Timberlake?

First things first: his talent is undeniable. At 2, he was singing along to the radio. “Is anyone listening to him?” his uncle asked. “He’s singing f--king harmony parts!” Later, Timberlake locked himself in his room, switched off the lights, and listened to Queen’s “Bohemian Rhapsody” for 48 hours straight. “I’d only come out for food or water,” he recently recalled. “I wanted to dissect every part of it.” He may have been the youngest member of *NSYNC, but he was also the most musical; as Pharrell Williams of the Neptunes told Rolling Stone in 2000, “to say that he’s got soul is something you expect me to say, but it’s true.” Timberlake proved Williams right. His first two albums were remarkably consistent, and remarkably good, and the new one extends the streak: inventive production; precise, supple vocals; relentless hooks. “Pusher Love Girl,” with its strutting beat, Curtis Mayfield falsetto, and crafty central metaphor (lover = drug dealer), will sound particularly excellent on the car stereo this spring.

As Pharrell Williams once put it, “Justin could’ve been raised in the black church.” (Christie Goodwin/Redferns, via Getty)

That said, plenty of contemporary performers—like Robin Thicke, for one—were blessed with talent. None of them are Timberlake. The reason, I think, is that his persona, and his taste, are preternaturally in tune with the times. At root, this has as much to do with biography as anything else: the contours of Timberlake’s life mirror every Millennial trend line. An estimated 40 percent of us are children of divorce, Timberlake included; his mother, Lynn Harless, split up with his father, Randy Timberlake, a bluegrass bassist, when Justin was 2. She and her second husband, Paul, went on to co-manage their son’s career—the ne plus ultra of helicopter parenting. By all reports, Timberlake and his mother have one of those peculiarly Millennial relationships in which the line between parent and pal is blurred. He lived with her even after his solo debut, and the two have been seen smoking pot together. “I had Justin when I was 20, and he seemed about 20 when he was born, so we’ve pretty much shared everything,” Lynn has said. “We’re weird like that. But there’s a lot of stuff he starts telling me about ... Some things you are not supposed to say to your mother. Sexual things. And his response is usually, ‘Oh, Mom, just listen.’”

Watch the history of Justin Timberlake’s breakout moments.

Timberlake has handled his career like a stereotypical Millennial as well, accepting the system as it is and making it work for him—unlike the baby boomers of the late 1960s, who relished their own anti-authoritarianism, and the Generation Xers of the late 1980s and early 1990s, who struck an alt-everything pose. First came the Baptist choir in Millington, Tenn., at age 8; then Star Search in Orlando at 10; then The All New Mickey Mouse Club at 12; and (finally!) a corporate record contract with *NSYNC at 14. He is the Organization Kid as pop star, and like many of his peers, he has multitasked his way through his 20s, diversifying into comedy (the SNL “Dick in a Box” sketch), film (The Social Network, Friends With Benefits), fashion (his William Rast clothing line), food (his Southern Hospitality BBQ restaurant), and media (his $35 million investment in MySpace). In a subtle, subconscious way, these familiar tendencies make Timberlake seem “real” to us—like someone we know.

For all the futurism of Timbaland’s productions—the bleeps and blips, the percussive mouth noises, the zippery loops—Timberlake’s music also strives to keep it real, mainly by anchoring itself in the organic sounds of the past. (Christie Goodwin/Redferns, via Getty)

For all the futurism of Timbaland’s productions—the bleeps and blips, the percussive mouth noises, the zippery loops—Timberlake’s music also strives to keep it real, mainly by anchoring itself in the organic sounds of the past. As Simon Reynolds recently wrote in Retromania, pop culture is increasingly feeding on its own history. And so “Suit and Tie” borrows its gentle ninth chords and sparkling piano glissandos from the cosmopolitan soul that Marvin Gaye was putting out in the 1970s, and Timberlake acknowledges the debt by quoting the “hot just like an oven” line from Gaye’s “Sexual Healing.” “Senorita,” the fourth single from Justified, is a direct descendent of Stevie Wonder’s “Don’t You Worry ’Bout a Thing,” from its spoken intro to its Latin beat. And the only thing more Jacksonesque than Timberlake’s debut release, “Like I Love You”—which he performed at the 2002 MTV Music Video Awards in black pants, a red shirt, and a fedora—was his third single, “Rock Your Body,” an actual rejected Jackson track. Fearing inauthenticity—the inevitable side effect of a dematerialized digital society—Millennials gravitate toward styles that have been authenticated by the passage of time. When Timberlake sings about getting “all pressed up in black and white,” then appears at the Grammys in a Tom Ford tuxedo—his hair neatly parted, his band arrayed behind Art Deco podiums, the screen tinted like an old sepia-tone photograph—he is satisfying this desire, both in himself and his audience.

Race has also played a role in Timberlake’s rise. It’s fair to attribute some of his success to the same dynamic that propelled Elvis Presley to the top of the pop charts: white boy plays black music, makes it “safe” for mainstream America, and outsells the originators in the process. But Timberlake’s relationship to race reflects our world more than Presley’s. Elvis was a rebellious figure: a white Southerner tapping into black culture at a time when black culture was taboo. For that reason, among others, he’ll always be a much more revolutionary artist than Timberlake. (So will Jackson, who melded black and white music and united two previously segregated audiences.) But in 2013, African-American culture is no longer forbidden. It’s mainstream. It’s cool. Timberlake takes this for granted—he’s never known otherwise—and so do his fans. As a teenager, Timberlake wanted to be black, basically. He learned to sing from Brian McKnight, Al Green, and Donny Hathaway; early profiles describe his “homeboy delivery” and “hip-hop flavoring.” As Pharrell Williams once put it, “Justin could’ve been raised in the black church.” And so, unlike Elvis, Timberlake isn’t challenging the status quo by singing R&B. Instead, he is embodying our deeper, postracial aspiration—a desire that didn’t exist in Elvis’s day—to be at ease in black and white culture simultaneously. If he can pull it off, perhaps we can, too.

The heart of Timberlake’s appeal may be this comforting, consensus quality. The past is still part of the future. Race isn’t as problematic as it seems. (Christie Goodwin/Redferns, via Getty)

Ultimately, the heart of Timberlake’s appeal may be this comforting, consensus quality. The past is still part of the future. Race isn’t as problematic as it seems. And lest I get too carried away: we can all shine on the dance floor. That was the point, after all, of “SexyBack,” Timberlake’s twitchy 2006 masterpiece, which celebrated the singer’s valiant efforts to resurrect “sexy” itself—to save it from “them other boys [who] don’t know how to act.” “I don’t really think I’m bringing sexy back,” Timberlake once confessed. “But when a 28-year-old male or female is standing in a club in New York City at 2:30 in the morning and that f--kin’ song comes on, I want them to feel like they are.” For a self-regarding generation—the stars of Twitter, the celebrities of Facebook—what fantasy could be more intoxicating than that? Justin is just like us—and for the next few minutes, we are just like Justin.

http://www.thedailybeast....um=twitter

Could this be the key that unlocks the mysterious enigma known as Justin Timberlake?

duccichucka said:

I'm not calling Timberlake a genius - please stop relying on what others have opined as a

basis for our conversation. Thanks! It makes our conversation much easier to follow!

I never said that you did call him a genius but the fact that the media calls Timberlake a genius is important to this conversation because that is why his talent and music gets questioned and criticized. His material and abilities does not reflect a genius level.

I've read your posts, including the one where you called me stupid, and I've yet to see you

provide a detailed analysis as to what constitutes a "real artist" and how Timberlake isn't

one of them. How do you know that he doesn't write his own lyrics or melodies? Are you

in the studio when recording has commenced?

I read over the post where I called you stupid and that was because I thought you were calling posters stupid for criticizing JT now if I read it wrong my bad for calling you stupid.

No I am not in the studio with JT and his producers but I wasnt in the studio with Sly Family Stone, Quincy and James Brown and I know they wrote their melodies and music. You dont HAVE to be in the studio to know how certain singers construct their songs and if they dont. I am not claiming to be an expert. I am just simply giving my opinion.

Well... I have gave plenty of detail explanations on what makes an artist and I dont want to repeat myself again. No point in beating a dead horse

Okay. Now we are getting somewhere. What you should do here is tell us how the songs sound

like recycled songs from his previous albums. For the record: I never said Timberlake was

a genius, okay? So don't use/or create a straw man argument here. Also, can you explain how

you measure talent and how Timberlake's talent is not as high as D'Angelo or Maxwell? How

can you tell when one artist is beter than another or has more talent? What set of universal

criteria are you using here?

Once again, I never said that you said Timberlake was a genius and please stop talking to me like I am a child.

There is no universal criteria for talent. You dont need to have talent to thrive in todays POP music industry. The music industry is very different from how it was in the 60s, 70s, 80s etc. So when you have a small pool of people who dont have much talent people are going to exploit any little talent someone has. Which is why acts like Justin and Beyonce are as big as they are if this was the 80s those artists would not even exist.

I am simply arguing that despite what the media markets, the industry is MUCH bigger than the pop world and unfornately those non pop artists will never get the exposure they deserve because of the politics of how the industry works today.

You cant really measure talent specifically but I guess its based off the listener and what music and talents they have been exposed to. I was fortunate to be exposed to alot of older artists growing up and other singers besides what was played on the radio. So.. I have a pretty broad exposure of different singing talent and dance talent but not everybody has that. For example, a 13 year old calling Justin Timberlake the best male singer of all time would not surprise me because they probably have not been exposed to other artists besides what gets played on the radio.

I just mentioned them because regardless of what the media says about Justin being the best male singer etc ....there are R&B singers that have more interesting R&B music. There are other examples I could have used.

Just because there are better R&B artists doesnt mean Justin's music is bad. I just think his media hype is bullshit.

This is great! What you should do here is again, elaborate what you mean by this. I dunno;

maybe JT does receive more credit than he deserves. But you have to be elaborative: tell

us how this is true! Tell us what is "decent" music, and how is Timberlake's music "decent?"

There is no question about it... he is overrated and just because he makes acceptable music does not change that.

Descent to me is one bar above average but nothing great or spetacular.

Singers like him are suppose to make descent music. He has a million dollar contract and is on a million dollar label. There is no excuse for him not to make descent music or go beyond descent but since trash and garbage is accepted today... Descent is treated like a Bob Dylan album.

Albums like Brown Sugar, Back to Basics and Miseducation of Lauryn Hill were popular albums during there periods but there great albums even till this day though and there beyond just descent. I havent heard anything like that from Justin....

What makes music groundbreaking? And how is Timberlake's music not groundbreaking? And

why does good music have to be groundbreaking in order to be worthy of credible press?

Why is displaying an overt influence a hindrance to Timberlake's music?

I never said that in order for good music to be good it HAS to be groundbreaking. There are alot of artists I love that are not groundbreaking.

The media is givng JT these pretentious titles so yes I am going to be critical because JT is not groundbreaking nor does he make groundbreaking music. Groundbreaking music is music that is innovative and pioneers trends, genres or anything in music that has never been done before. JT does NOT do that.

Now, I know you're not just a loudmouth who thinks that her musical taste is superior to

others, but when is called out to render an explanation for liking or disliking a recording

artist by someone whose got a little more sense/patience than most of the posters here at

the org, falls back on "it's my opinion and I've already stated it in another response, so deal

with it" type of Prince org member. I want to learn from you!

I dont get your point with this?

I dont have a problem with explaining my opinion but most of the things you are asking I have already explained numerous of times. So I feel it is pointless to explain something I have already explained. Most of your posts have a condescending aura to them like people owe you a explanation that you think is the best explanation I am trying to understand where your coming from but if I have already explained myself I am not going to go in circles.

I dont see how calling JT overrated implies my taste is better than others... but okay.

[Edited 3/21/13 21:20pm]

[Edited 3/21/13 21:21pm]

[Edited 3/21/13 21:50pm]

I wonder if all those critics, alluding MJ, Prince, Marvin and SW, really believe JT is doing something similar and with quality, rather than just imitating or making vague references in his weak-to-reasonable-at-most music. Maybe music critics became rather cynic over time. Stephen Thoman Erlewine, from AllMusic, a music guide I used forever until my early 20s, reviewed all Prince's albums and gave 5 stars to Dirty Mind, 1999, Purple Rain and SOTT, which sounds fair to me. But now he's reviewing things like this:

http://www.allmusic.com/a...0000779108

tangerine7 said:

The thing is, is that this whole image he has for this release is so very calculated, to the point that it has no originality, no rawness, atleast not to me, because I've see every artists you can pick out of the images he plays out, black & white artists. Perhaps the new generation as stated in the topic title is indeed, the only people who could fall for this. Which is sad to me because it shows just how much the music here in The States has turned so very plastic, souless and played out. The person writting this, must be very young to state some of the things said.Artists I see being projected and imitated, Overall image, but the quality dosen't measure up to these artists at all.Michael Jackson, Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, Frank Sinatra, Johnny Cash, Sammy Davis Jr., Tony Bennett, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, James Dean, Dean Martin - just to name a few.You could even say some flavor of Prince, (later Bowie)David Bowie,Sting & so on.Cuddles said: hear! hear! lazycrockett said:All Hail The KING of Pop!!!!!

[Edited 3/21/13 21:20pm]

[Edited 3/21/13 21:21pm]

[Edited 3/21/13 21:50pm]

To be fair,

if you really need to mention so many names in order to describe what he's doing then he really must be doing something original. I could agree with points like these if there would be only 2-3 names mentioned, but he's clearly not just trying to ride on something his biggest idol (MJ ?) came up with.