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Can You Learn To Like Music You Hate? by Anastasia Tsioulcas February 15, 2013 4:42 PM You hear some music you hate. That's fair. We all do on occasion. But can you learn to love — or at least not loathe — that music? Can you intentionally transform the visceral response you have to certain pieces and styles, or does that happen at some more incalculable, subtle level? Researchers at Australia's University of Melbourne say that the more dissonance (which they describe as "perceived roughness, harshness, unpleasantness, or difficulty in listening to the sound") that we hear in music, the less we enjoy said music. Seems obvious enough, right? Also falling into the "no kidding" category is the not-at-all new notion that the more we're exposed to a certain kind of music — either through intentional engagement or simple osmosis in whatever culture we're immersed in — the more we like that music. But the researchers, who worked with participants ranging from highly trained music students at the university's conservatory to members of the general public, did come up with a couple of potentially interesting observations. The first, reports The Atlantic, is that "when listeners hadn't previously encountered a certain chord, they found it nearly impossible to hear the individual notes that comprised it." Not that they didn't like it — they literally didn't even process it. Is that like hearing a word in language you don't understand? That it's just so much noise, so to speak? The researchers' corollary finding is that the more participants understood about the music's structure — even down to individual chords — the more they enjoyed what they were hearing. To prove that point, the Australians took on a second experiment. They selected 19 participants without musical training and gave them some music theory instruction, particularly in identifying the pitches of certain chords. After 10 such experiences, those participants were not just better at pitch identification but also found those chords to be less dissonant, even when they were technically "dissonant" according to traditional music theory. That is: The more you hear, the more you'll love. Sounds good to us. http://www.npr.org/blogs/...c-you-hate =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Study: Hearing Music as Beautiful Is a Learned Trait Lindsay Abrams Feb 15 2013, 8:09 AM ET Appreciating harmonies comes with experience. [img:$uid]http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/food/4840098788_ba03e05d93_z615.jpg[/img:$uid] Why does the music that to some people is lovely, even transcendent, sound to others like a lot of noise? Researchers at the University of Melbourne attribute to the amount of pleasure we take in music to how much dissonance we hear -- the degree of "perceived roughness, harshness, unpleasantness, or difficulty in listening to the sound." The team played both "pure tones" and various chords for participants -- a mixed group of trained musicians studying at the school's conservatory and members of the general public -- and had them rate the sounds for perceived dissonance, and for familiarity, on a five-point scale. Trained musicians, perhaps predictably, were more sensitive to dissonance than lay listeners. But they also found that when listeners hadn't previously encountered a certain chord, they found it nearly impossible to hear the individual notes that comprised it. Where this ability was lacking, the chords sounded dissonant, and thus, unpleasant. The ability to identify tones and thus enjoy harmonies was positively correlated with musical training. Said study co-author Sarah Wilson, "This showed us that even the ability to hear a musical pitch (or note) is learned." From a practical standpoint, the results seem to suggest that we can train ourselves to better appreciate music. This includes that of unfamiliar traditions, which, assuming this is not just a clever way of promoting the Melbourne Conservatorium of Music, is great news for those who've been wanting to get into jazz. And in fact, the researchers conducted a second experiment to test the validity of that theory. They took 19 non-musicians and trained them to identify the pitches of certain chords. Ten sessions later, the participants were better at hearing notes. They also reported that they found those chords to be less dissonant than other chords that they hadn't been taught, regardless of how technically harmonious they were. The more ambitious implication of the findings, according to lead author Neil McLachlan, is that it "overturns centuries of theories that physical properties of the ear determine what we find appealing." Centuries. They also propose that their conclusions can help explain how Western music developed, through traditions of tuning and harmony that have been evolving since the Middle Ages. As they explain in their discussion, the basic, 12-tone do re mi scale isn't "naturally" harmonious. Instead, it was first introduced by Pythagoras (yes, he of the theorem), who developed a system of "tuning based on successive 2/3 proportions of string length." It was a logical, mathematical method that in turn gave us "the simple mathematical relationships [that] can be found between the harmonics of common Western chords" that we've since learned to love. When you think about it, that makes sense. There's no reason why we should believe that Western music, for those of us who grew up on it, makes more sense than other musical traditions that, to the uninitiated, don't sound nearly as beautiful. But it's still jarring to think that much of what we find to be appealing -- or what strikes us as sublime -- in music is based in our brains being trained to hear it that way. http://www.theatlantic.co...it/273185/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Music for adventurous listeners tA  Tribal Records"Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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It's a bit of a both. I enjoy dissonant music and have enjoyed it at least 2/3 of my life, but I can also understand the mathematical and psychological basis why music with "traditional" harmonic content is easier to appreciate. I don't think it's just a "learned" thing, as the mathematical patterns that are fairly easy to perceive can't be just "conincidences" like studies such as these often suggest.
Really, it's the same thing why you'd want to enjoy more "challenging" food as an adult and not continue to eat what small kids like to eat for the rest of your life. That's honestly how I feel about some of those people that have never challenged themselves to listen to anything else than pop pap. | |
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I had a college class where we were exposed to modern composers like Stockhausen, Schoenberg and Webern for the first time and I found it very hard going. It seemed much harsher and less "musical" than the gnarliest hardcore punk I was listening to and without the manic energy. It seemed totally random and disorganized. I couldn't get into it at all & regretted taking the course.
Then I went into the listening room one night really high, and "heard" Schoenberg for the first time. It suddenly sounded like music, I could hear where he was going with it, and it became beautiful.
So yeah, I think you can find some deeper stuff later in life that wasn't immediately attractive when you first heard it.
I like the metaphor for trying new kinds of food. I certainly didn't like Indian and Thai food when I was a kid, now I love it. It's about getting over the shock of the unfamiliar and opening yourself to the experience. I don't think you have to do this in all things all the time, I'm still set in my ways to some extent, but I would hope somebody who loves music could show a little adventurous spirit where music is involved. | |
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No. I appreciate it all. I'll go back to them when they apply to my current situation or come on the radio, tv, movies, dusty cds I forgot about, etc. [Edited 3/2/13 18:05pm] For all time I am with you, you are with me. | |
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Hearing the same shit everyday at mi trabajo made a 
feel special though. 
Interesting read.
I saw something a while back discussing this sort of thing. More about the effect music has on our emotions and how we react to different sounds and scales that we learn. A lot of it's obvious, play a load of minors for doom and gloom etc. but it's fascinating stuff and how our brains put it all together is mind boggling. Literally.
Makes sense to me that we'd get into what we recognise. We all hear the rythym of a heartbeat for 9 months before we're even born. We're naturally drawn to a basic rythym. Being gradually introduced to more complicated arrangements develops our understanding. Our tastes begin to broaden and we learn to appreciate more. The more you give the palette, the more you have to go on but you never forget the basics. The primal stuff, regardless of age.
I don't think it's all about what we learn necessarily. Or what we 'learn to like'. There's a lot that goes into developing our personal taste. Understanding every part of something I just don't get into isn't going to make me like it. There's something else going on, much more.
Typically, I can't find the piece I saw a while ago. I'm sure it was Oliver Sacks.
Found this interesting though.
Oliver Sacks - The power of music: http://brain.oxfordjourna.../2528.full
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Yes, you really can get used to music that you may have hated. And with familiarity you can appreciate it. Familiarity breeds content.
This happened to me with opera. A few years ago I would have rushed to switch off any operatic music. Now I can't claim to enjoy all operas, but my taste has changed in the last few years since a good friend introduced me to the opera Peter Grimes by Benjamin Britten. At first I found it really disturbing. At the same time parts of it got into my head and I wanted to listen to it again - only in small chunks. Eventually I came to love it along with other operas such as Britten's Billy Budd and Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle. (These just happen to be the ones I enjoy. There are so many types of opera, some light hearted and others more shocking/thrilling that it's not possible to generalise).
It does take work to get into opera, which makes it sound a bit serious and boring. But it's worth it because when you go and see an opera that you done some preparation for then it is an amazing intense experience. | |
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I'm a music fanatic but i cannot, let me repeat, cannot get into opera. For me, hearing a opera song is like hearing someones nails on a chalk board. Sometimes i get physically sick when i hear a opera singer.
Im willing to seek out some opera that i may like but i don't know where to start. I could see myself maybe getting into a baritone singer.
Got any recommendations?
Rest in Peace Bettie Boo. See u soon. | |
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Billy Budd. Try these
http://www.youtube.com/wa...AE2PeqKngA http://www.youtube.com/wa...99zAk0kXk0. http://www.youtube.com/wa...xQEr11fFDg
but don't expect to be grabbed by it immediately, it creeps up on you. This opera has an all male cast sothere are no screechy sopranos! [Edited 3/2/13 2:54am] | |
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Thank you. Ima check them out as soon as i eat something.
Rest in Peace Bettie Boo. See u soon. | |
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Ultimately it matters how the abrasiveness is handled. These studies are usually just about harmony and how it's perceived in isolation from how people actually perceive the musical pieces themselves.
Anyone that has at least attempted to play jazz knows that phrasing matters. "Chromatic" notes have always been used in solos as passing notes. Dissonant notes can be also used in a percussive manner in a way that should come off as fairly natural to most listeners, as percussive elements in music are not tuned to the rest of the music in most pieces anyway (they usually "ring" at certain frequencies).
Dissonances can be used to build up tension and then you will release that tension in some manner. I think that's really the key to understand how music works at the listener's end - the musicians should try to learn how to build up tension and how to release it.
Another thing that makes a difference is the choice of sounds and how they are used in the context of other sounds. One instrument can function as a "pad" for some other to play atonal stuff over it and far fewer people will complain about it being "senseless noise".
One typical way to "smooth out" some of the dissonances is also to use effects like reverb. Take some of the early Weather Report or Miles' Bitches Brew as an example (I'm thinking mainly the keyboard parts here, but it also applies to other instruments). It works because it won't make the transitions seem so drastic and the notes will bleed into each other (especially with instruments that have a resonant sound as the Rhodes piano and most of the brass and wind instruments). | |
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I don't even listen to the music that I could potentially hate, so I could never learn to hate/love it
[Edited 3/3/13 12:53pm]  | |
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I've never encountered anyone with perfect taste, so we're always learning to whatever degree we allow ourselves. But whenever I hear someone say something has "grown on them", it always strikes me as a bit negative, and possibly humorous, as if I've finally found out how to embrace the barnacle that has attached itself to my hull. The more I learn to get out of my own way, as horrible as I might currently be, the smaller amount of greatness I see in specificity but the larger the canvas. In other words, I believe everyone has the potential inside them, and it's certainly not measured solely by the constraints inside me. | |
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La Traviata and Otello by Verdi are two personal favorites that are hugely popular.
La Trav is a classic tragedy with a really messed up lost-love story. You'll probably hear a few familiar tunes you can sing along with.
Otello has male characters singing most of the arias, and it's a fairly fast-paced story. Plus it has Iago's great "Credo In Un Dio Crudel" ("I believe in a cruel God") one of the greatest odes to evil every written. Awesome! | |
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These guys have the most sophisticated intervals used in jazz today:
I admit it might take a few listens to get used to them and not hearing them as dissonant anymore.
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Nova, I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to call you out on this:
what sophisticated interval did you hear in this clip? | |
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For anyone prepared to give opera a go try this aria from Tosca
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It wasn't a serious post.
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I think I've tried for the sake of some relationships in the past. I've always been into the whole 'opposites attract' philosophy and it was very rejuvenating on the romance side of things, but I was unable to appreciate their taste in low-life hipster music no matter how much I tried.  I'm afraid of Americans. I'm afraid of the world. | |
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well, you fooled me
[Edited 3/6/13 16:47pm] | |
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Why would u want 2? Music is about feeling................ | |
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novabrkr said: These guys have the most sophisticated intervals used in jazz today:
I admit it might take a few listens to get used to them and not hearing them as dissonant anymore.
Takes drink of coffee...sprays it back at the unfortunate person sitting across from me at McDonalds. | |
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