mjscarousal said:

Musicslave said:

Lord knows I hate to be the one to defend the facts but The Hollywood Reporter article didn't say that the doc generated 1.8 Mil over 24 hrs....

"HBO's intimate documentary about the singer, Beyonce: Life Is but a Dream, pulled 1.8 million viewers during its inaugural outing at 9 p.m. ET."

By the way, I'm not trying to impress you. Just sharing the actual numbers from the first airing.

The reason why I mentioned she's still big business is because most major corporations or "brands" will see these numbers, (3.1 million) total viewers combining the Oprah interview and the HBO special and conclude that she's still marketable.

Thanks for correction!..... still not impressed though .

Like lastdecember stated she is a media star... her album tanked, her SB viewership was really low. She might still be marketable but she is not a popular (music star) which is more important since that is what she is famous for. Shes a brand, shes has a backing and a good marketing squad.... so those numbers are not that surprising (since she has all those things to market herself with)and those are not extra steller numbers... The Oprah interview is not her highest rated interview on her failing network

Once again Im use to MJ numbers like TWO DIGIT numbers so it takes ALOT to impress me

but it all seriousness, thanks though

@ baited comment...PLEASE DONT FEED INTO THE BAIT, just ignore it like I did

or else watch this thread be derailed

You're welcome. I thought Alpha was referring to my response to Azz.....

Sorry MJsCarousal Unfortunately, Brand Beyonce is still big business.....

AND THAT IS HER GOAL!

For which I can't hate. She's in the business of selling records. Period.

Her goal is make money, secure her legacy, make a foundation to secure her bloodline. AND SHE HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT DOING IT.

What is the Beyonce brand? The Beyonce' brand is "female empowerment", "the diva life", "perfection", "all dreams can come true if you work hard"-- a lifestyle. That's what she selling, and has done very well selling it.

I laugh when people get upset when they say she's not showing her true self. She's not in the business of selling "her true self". She never will. So don't ever expect it from her cause her "true self" is not part of her brand. And I don't hate her for that.

As I said, I can't hate because she is meeting her goals (to our dismay). Money=power. And for her (as a woman of color) to secure a 24 hour block on HBO for them to show her doc shows the type of clout she has.

Money has one color; it is green.

Also, it has been rumored that Jay-Z changed his name to "Knowles-Carter" (not sure how true this is), but if that is true that goes to show how dedicated they are to securing things.

So, the goal of this doc WAS NOT to show her true self at all. It is part of a long calcualted commercial to sell records.

http://mycolumbuspower.co...es-carter/

lyecry said:

Sorry MJsCarousal Unfortunately, Brand Beyonce is still big business.....

AND THAT IS HER GOAL!

For which I can't hate. She's in the business of selling records. Period.

Her goal is make money, secure her legacy, make a foundation to secure her bloodline. AND SHE HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT DOING IT.

What is the Beyonce brand? The Beyonce' brand is "female empowerment", "the diva life", "perfection", "all dreams can come true if you work hard"-- a lifestyle. That's what she selling, and has done very well selling it.

I laugh when people get upset when they say she's not showing her true self. She's not in the business of selling "her true self". She never will. So don't ever expect it from her cause her "true self" is not part of her brand. And I don't hate her for that.

As I said, I can't hate because she is meeting her goals (to our dismay). Money=power. And for her (as a woman of color) to secure a 24 hour block on HBO for them to show her doc shows the type of clout she has.

Money has one color; it is green.

Also, it has been rumored that Jay-Z changed his name to "Knowles-Carter" (not sure how true this is), but if that is true that goes to show how dedicated they are to securing things.

So, the goal of this doc WAS NOT to show her true self at all. It is part of a long calcualted commercial to sell records.

http://mycolumbuspower.co...es-carter/

thing is though, this has nothing to do with records, at this point she is well past her peak in sales of music, she is continuing to sell whatever will sell lets realize that, and again she does that well, and thats her business, but selling records is about 1% of her business now. Big difference between a BRAND and an artist.

mjscarousal said:

GoldDolphin said:

I was the person who made the comment about Bey being insecure based on her body language. She doesn't seem confident at all, she is probably confident on stage because that's how she has been valued since childhood but as far as her personality goes, I still think she's insecure and it shows clearly. Just because you can booty shake and dance in lingerie and things doesn't make you confident, to the contrary many women who dress "half naked" aren't confident at all... Same with girls who wear too much makeup, they make you believe they have confidence because they "look pretty" but if you felt that way you wouldnt hide away all your imperfections and insecurities with makeup.. I finally saw it and the documentary was alright and the best part was seeing little Blue. (Also, I wonder why Michael Jackson didn't do this type of documentary. He loved filming and doing videos, but I wonder why it never occurred to him to direct a film about himself. I know the private home videos are similar but more of a commentary to the Martin bashir documentary. )

Michael Jackson did do one and it was his Home Videos and the Martin Bashir doc that Martin exploited and manipulated (MJ clearly was not in no control with the doc). Although the Martin Bashir one backfired we got to see MJs imperfections, him being himself and it was nothing narcistic about the doc. Also, in the home movies, those were old footages even from the 60s, 70s that he showed which showcased a more "human side of him". He showed interactions with his family, colleagues, people that worked with him and his children. He did not show a bunch of pre-recorded (controlled) clips simply for the show.

Like lyecry stated, she is not so "innocent" as she likes to portray. I think she purposely puts on that act to hide her real self and I also think it may appear that way because she lacks communication skills. I take what Beyonce portrays as "face value" because she is not a "sincere/real" celebrity to me. Also she is very conceited and isnt scared to say it or show it. Someone who is like that is not going to be insecure. Like for certain celebs... you can tell thats just who they are because they dont front about it, MJ, Madonna etc which was why they were so heavily bashed because they WERE THEMSELVES and didnt care what people thought, ya know?

Beyonce is fake and what she portrays is not herself so its hard for me to label her as insecure or as something when she doesnt show her true self.

@ Lyecry... people have ALWAYS made a bunch of Beyonce threads even before her 2013 comeback here . There is a weird obsession with her here on the org. I wouldnt say she has gotten peoples attention per say based on the 2013 threads... because orgers have always done that even before 2013 but Orgers make a bunch of irrelevant threads like Rihanna, CB, etc and so forth. I still have not watched the documentary and dont plan on watching

[Edited 2/20/13 8:24am]

Yes I mentioned the home videos, but I'm saying more of a documentary in a style that he appreciated you know. He wanted to go into the movie industry and filming a good documentary could have been a good start. Might have made him win an emmy award, had he worked hard on it. Well we are obviusly biased because we love MJ, but most people that saw the Martin Bashir documentary at the time and still years later - viewed MJ as neurotic, narsisstic, materialistic, childish, trapped in the past, and so forth. He was the example of an mega star that had too much money for his own good, people still study that documentary in certain Universities here in Europe as part of what fame and money can do to do people and what such people mean to us in our society. I don't agree, I think that MJ was a great manipulator in that he chose to show us those old clips of his family because he knew how much in particular the US loved The Jackson 5 and their history in show biz. It's the "american dream" story, that a poor family becomes rich out of pure talent and hard work. Don't take me wrong I love MJ , but from a critical point, that's not how his world looked like in 2003 when that documentary aired. He didn't have that much contact with his family at all and the images show a type of ideal that he wanted to share with the world, that wasn't real at all...

(Perhaps we should discuss this on the MJ thread lol, sorry )

GoldDolphin said:

mjscarousal said:

Michael Jackson did do one and it was his Home Videos and the Martin Bashir doc that Martin exploited and manipulated (MJ clearly was not in no control with the doc). Although the Martin Bashir one backfired we got to see MJs imperfections, him being himself and it was nothing narcistic about the doc. Also, in the home movies, those were old footages even from the 60s, 70s that he showed which showcased a more "human side of him". He showed interactions with his family, colleagues, people that worked with him and his children. He did not show a bunch of pre-recorded (controlled) clips simply for the show.

Like lyecry stated, she is not so "innocent" as she likes to portray. I think she purposely puts on that act to hide her real self and I also think it may appear that way because she lacks communication skills. I take what Beyonce portrays as "face value" because she is not a "sincere/real" celebrity to me. Also she is very conceited and isnt scared to say it or show it. Someone who is like that is not going to be insecure. Like for certain celebs... you can tell thats just who they are because they dont front about it, MJ, Madonna etc which was why they were so heavily bashed because they WERE THEMSELVES and didnt care what people thought, ya know?

Beyonce is fake and what she portrays is not herself so its hard for me to label her as insecure or as something when she doesnt show her true self.

@ Lyecry... people have ALWAYS made a bunch of Beyonce threads even before her 2013 comeback here . There is a weird obsession with her here on the org. I wouldnt say she has gotten peoples attention per say based on the 2013 threads... because orgers have always done that even before 2013 but Orgers make a bunch of irrelevant threads like Rihanna, CB, etc and so forth. I still have not watched the documentary and dont plan on watching

[Edited 2/20/13 8:24am]

Yes I mentioned the home videos, but I'm saying more of a documentary in a style that he appreciated you know. He wanted to go into the movie industry and filming a good documentary could have been a good start. Might have made him win an emmy award, had he worked hard on it. Well we are obviusly biased because we love MJ, but most people that saw the Martin Bashir documentary at the time and still years later - viewed MJ as neurotic, narsisstic, materialistic, childish, trapped in the past, and so forth. He was the example of an mega star that had too much money for his own good, people still study that documentary in certain Universities here in Europe as part of what fame and money can do to do people and what such people mean to us in our society. I don't agree, I think that MJ was a great manipulator in that he chose to show us those old clips of his family because he knew how much in particular the US loved The Jackson 5 and their history in show biz. It's the "american dream" story, that a poor family becomes rich out of pure talent and hard work. Don't take me wrong I love MJ , but from a critical point, that's not how his world looked like in 2003 when that documentary aired. He didn't have that much contact with his family at all and the images show a type of ideal that he wanted to share with the world, that wasn't real at all...

(Perhaps we should discuss this on the MJ thread lol, sorry )

I respectfully disagree with this. I also feel like your the one being biased here.

Whether Michael was close with his family at the time is irrelevant, the fact is he showed clips that humanized him and footages that the public had never seen. There were MANY footages beside the 60s, 70s footages that he showed in the home movies. He showed a clip of him dancing to R. Kelly in the car, he showed footages of him playing around in his hotel, he showed footages of him without makeup, he showed never before seen behind footages of Remember the time, rehearsals for BAD etc, he showed personal footages of him with his brothers, sisters, father and mother. .... Beyonce did not do any of that based on these comments. It was all about HER and depicting her in the most perfect light.

I was not bringing that home movies up to make him out to be "perfect" but to show how the footages in the doc depicted Michael as normal for a change and doing "normal things" and those footages were not rehearsed or manipulated for the show ahead of time. Granted he picked the clips he wanted to show but the clips he picked were versatile and humanized him. He showed clips with his family, friends, at home, doing regular things, having fun, with his children, shopping in a mall (although that was for fun and wasnt real) etc They were not planned footages that were taped ahead of time though.

He did not manipulate footages ahead of time and instead showed footages that he already had that would let the public see a different side of him unlike the Beyonce documentary.

Till this day, people always talk about how those clips (home movies) and how it brought Michael in a different light.

On the Martin Bashir doc, I have never heard anybody use the word "narcistic" to descibe it. Ive heard materialistic, eccentric, childish but never narcistic. My point in bringing that up was to show how he did not have control in the documenaty and that Martin was the one that manipuated the cuts/edits not him.

mjscarousal said:

GoldDolphin said:

Yes I mentioned the home videos, but I'm saying more of a documentary in a style that he appreciated you know. He wanted to go into the movie industry and filming a good documentary could have been a good start. Might have made him win an emmy award, had he worked hard on it. Well we are obviusly biased because we love MJ, but most people that saw the Martin Bashir documentary at the time and still years later - viewed MJ as neurotic, narsisstic, materialistic, childish, trapped in the past, and so forth. He was the example of an mega star that had too much money for his own good, people still study that documentary in certain Universities here in Europe as part of what fame and money can do to do people and what such people mean to us in our society. I don't agree, I think that MJ was a great manipulator in that he chose to show us those old clips of his family because he knew how much in particular the US loved The Jackson 5 and their history in show biz. It's the "american dream" story, that a poor family becomes rich out of pure talent and hard work. Don't take me wrong I love MJ , but from a critical point, that's not how his world looked like in 2003 when that documentary aired. He didn't have that much contact with his family at all and the images show a type of ideal that he wanted to share with the world, that wasn't real at all...

(Perhaps we should discuss this on the MJ thread lol, sorry )

I respectfully disagree with this. I also feel like your the one being biased here.

Whether Michael was close with his family at the time is irrelevant, the fact is he showed clips that humanized him and footages that the public had never seen. There were MANY footages beside the 60s, 70s footages that he showed in the home movies. He showed a clip of him dancing to R. Kelly in the car, he showed footages of him playing around in his hotel, he showed footages of him without makeup, he showed never before seen behind footages of Remember the time, rehearsals for BAD etc, he showed personal footages of him with his brothers, sisters, father and mother. .... Beyonce did not do any of that based on these comments. It was all about HER and depicting her in the most perfect light.

I was not bringing that home movies up to make him out to be "perfect" but to show how the footages in the doc depicted Michael as normal for a change and doing "normal things" and those footages were not rehearsed or manipulated for the show ahead of time. Granted he picked the clips he wanted to show but the clips he picked were versatile and humanized him. He showed clips with his family, friends, at home, doing regular things, having fun, with his children, shopping in a mall (although that was for fun and wasnt real) etc They were not planned footages that were taped ahead of time though.

He did not manipulate footages ahead of time and instead showed footages that he already had that would let the public see a different side of him unlike the Beyonce documentary.

Till this day, people always talk about how those clips (home movies) and how it brought Michael in a different light.

On the Martin Bashir doc, I have never heard anybody use the word "narcistic" to descibe it. Ive heard materialistic, eccentric, childish but never narcistic. My point in bringing that up was to show how he did not have control in the documenaty and that Martin was the one that manipuated the cuts/edits not him.

I'm not being biased at all lol, because I'm not even talking about Beyonce anymore ... MJ is one of my fav /artists of all time and Beyonce isn't even close to him and never will be. I compare MJ to musical greats like Mozart in the renaissance. But from a critical side these are points that have been made about him. I do agree that the Home Videos humanized him a bit more than the Martin Bashir documentary (and I love those clips and I don't know how many times I've seen them... )

The thing is that MJ wasn't normal, he wasn't like anyone else and that's what made him so unique and amazing. I don't expect MJ to be doing the same things I'm doing, because that's not how his life was. Obviously he was a human like everyone else and did "normal" things (whatever normal means anyways) but he was an artist in essence and therefore his life was the life of an artist. Had he been living 200 years ago in the romantic era of music in Europe, his life style would have been the norm and I believe that's why MJ loved this period in history (his choice of european clothing of this time in paintings and poetry that he loved and himself wrote, portrays this idealistic society where adults can be like children and animals and nature are connected to each other in an almost romantic and spiritual way. Just listen to Speechless, which is a perfect example on how he made watching children play into something romantic... He wasn't normal and that's OK because that's why we are intrigued and the reason he put out amazing material...

They did say that though, you should go back and read some reviews from the documentary where they specifically think MJ is a narcisst who only thinks and loves himself, as if he was royalty and that the world surronded around him....