vainandy said:

Adorecream said:

I expect to get crucified for this, but would love it if you all had Broad enough minds not to. I stress this is one mans opinion of a musical genre. You may not agree with it and I respect, but please don't get personal.

No need to be worried about whether if they like what you have to say or not. Speak your mind boldly, be proud of it, and if they don't like it, they can kiss your ass.

As for the reason it's still in style, that's because there are bunch of dull dead asses out there who have no damn taste. It's not their fault though because they've been raised their entire lives on the bullshit with no style changes in music like we used to have.

As I always believed, gangster rap, or Hip Hop in general seems to be a bit immature and geared towards the 20 and under crowd. Think about what the songs and lifestyle endorses: fighting in clubs, getting locked up, making bail, runnin' the trap, haters, beef, women, etc. I mean who wants to be involved with such things at the age of 22 or more? So to hear someone like Jay-Z still talk about that life when he has a family now just doesn't make sense as he is in his mid-forties.

Rap Culture is "Never-Neverland" where no one grows up and faces adulthood, or more importantly responsibility. Look at all the rappers who are in their 40s and 50s still talking about that life they had when they were teenagers, no progress, no maturity, just perpetuating their foolhearted ways.

Gangsta Rap became played out when it became commercialized as such:

NWA Era - Street tales of oppressed urban youth

Versace/Mafiaso/Shiny Suit Era - "Everyone is a boss, Rolls Royces, House on the Beach"

Bling Bling Era - "Floss mode 24-7 even with rented mansions, ice, and vehicles"

Club Anthem Era - Present "Make the songs catchy with dumbed down lyrics thrown in"

It is quite ironic many people covet the life of these "big rappers", but their life is mostly fake as their material wealth and worth is mostly fabricated or in many cases leased and they are mere pawns of the record labels (save for a few genuine indie artists).

There isn't anything honorable or positive about being a rapper and it is simply culmination of all the worst traits a financially distraught area can offer.

gdiminished said:

As I always believed, gangster rap, or Hip Hop in general seems to be a bit immature and geared towards the 20 and under crowd. Think about what the songs and lifestyle endorses: fighting in clubs, getting locked up, making bail, runnin' the trap, haters, beef, women, etc. I mean who wants to be involved with such things at the age of 22 or more? So to hear someone like Jay-Z still talk about that life when he has a family now just doesn't make sense as he is in his mid-forties.

Rap Culture is "Never-Neverland" where no one grows up and faces adulthood, or more importantly responsibility. Look at all the rappers who are in their 40s and 50s still talking about that life they had when they were teenagers, no progress, no maturity, just perpetuating their foolhearted ways.

Gangsta Rap became played out when it became commercialized as such:

NWA Era - Street tales of oppressed urban youth

Versace/Mafiaso/Shiny Suit Era - "Everyone is a boss, Rolls Royces, House on the Beach"

Bling Bling Era - "Floss mode 24-7 even with rented mansions, ice, and vehicles"

Club Anthem Era - Present "Make the songs catchy with dumbed down lyrics thrown in"

It is quite ironic many people covet the life of these "big rappers", but their life is mostly fake as their material wealth and worth is mostly fabricated or in many cases leased and they are mere pawns of the record labels (save for a few genuine indie artists).

There isn't anything honorable or positive about being a rapper and it is simply culmination of all the worst traits a financially distraught area can offer.

Flo Rida is within the Club Anthem era. His lyrics are not dumb down, but they are simple.

gdiminished said:

As I always believed, gangster rap, or Hip Hop in general seems to be a bit immature and geared towards the 20 and under crowd. Think about what the songs and lifestyle endorses: fighting in clubs, getting locked up, making bail, runnin' the trap, haters, beef, women, etc. I mean who wants to be involved with such things at the age of 22 or more? So to hear someone like Jay-Z still talk about that life when he has a family now just doesn't make sense as he is in his mid-forties.

Rap Culture is "Never-Neverland" where no one grows up and faces adulthood, or more importantly responsibility. Look at all the rappers who are in their 40s and 50s still talking about that life they had when they were teenagers, no progress, no maturity, just perpetuating their foolhearted ways.

Gangsta Rap became played out when it became commercialized as such:

NWA Era - Street tales of oppressed urban youth

Versace/Mafiaso/Shiny Suit Era - "Everyone is a boss, Rolls Royces, House on the Beach"

Bling Bling Era - "Floss mode 24-7 even with rented mansions, ice, and vehicles"

Club Anthem Era - Present "Make the songs catchy with dumbed down lyrics thrown in"

It is quite ironic many people covet the life of these "big rappers", but their life is mostly fake as their material wealth and worth is mostly fabricated or in many cases leased and they are mere pawns of the record labels (save for a few genuine indie artists).

There isn't anything honorable or positive about being a rapper and it is simply culmination of all the worst traits a financially distraught area can offer.

Creatively, gangsta rap is in a state of arrested development. No pun intended. It provides a lot of negative reinforcement. Much of it loses its appeal to fans as they age (myself included). All of that is true.

But gangsta rap, the predominant sound of hip-hop for a generation, is STILL only a subgenre of hip-hop. NWA didn't invent hip-hop.

For nearly 2 generations, hip-hop artists have produced great work. "The Message" and "They Reminisce Over You" by themselves prove your critique is overly broad.

Anyone who knows the work of Public Enemy, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Common, The Jungle Brothers, Little Brother, or similar artists knows your view is incomplete. Even some of the artists associated with gangsta rap have made songs or albums of substance.

This is not to say you don't make valid points, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. In justifiably critiquing the state of hip-hop, you simply can't condemn it in its entirety.

Maybe you didn't intend that.

It is not as popular as it used to be mainsteam wise but it does still keep it's niche especially among youth. Just like any niche genre there will still be followers. There are still people who still follow Guns n' Roses and Cyndi Lauper. Gansta rap has gone down that route where it has become a niche most rap artists are having a hard time becoming popular, some of them conform to mainstream and some rap artists have grown up and matured.

In my opinion I was never a fan of the genre because this subgenre ruined the essence of what hip hop is and orginally supposed to be about. Hip Hop music was not meant to insult others or find and excuse to downgrade and exploit women but uplift the community with realism and combining it with a positive message.

Gangsta rap became an apologist for the thug culture where young people emulated the artists that became popular within that genre.

namepeace said:

Creatively, gangsta rap is in a state of arrested development. No pun intended. It provides a lot of negative reinforcement. Much of it loses its appeal to fans as they age (myself included). All of that is true.

But gangsta rap, the predominant sound of hip-hop for a generation, is STILL only a subgenre of hip-hop. NWA didn't invent hip-hop.

For nearly 2 generations, hip-hop artists have produced great work. "The Message" and "They Reminisce Over You" by themselves prove your critique is overly broad.

Anyone who knows the work of Public Enemy, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Common, The Jungle Brothers, Little Brother, or similar artists knows your view is incomplete. Even some of the artists associated with gangsta rap have made songs or albums of substance.

This is not to say you don't make valid points, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. In justifiably critiquing the state of hip-hop, you simply can't condemn it in its entirety.

Maybe you didn't intend that.

At this point Johnny Q public won't be able to differentiate between Wu-Tang (if they even remember them quite honestly) and Young Jeezy as the astute listener will be able to tell the difference easily. The current generation has irrecovably lost its roots (no pun intended) to golden and silver age MCs and are all about making the ''Bands Make 'Em Dance''.

I am not sure what merits can be drawn from Hip Hop in its current state.

gdiminished said:

As I always believed, gangster rap, or Hip Hop in general seems to be a bit immature and geared towards the 20 and under crowd. Think about what the songs and lifestyle endorses: fighting in clubs, getting locked up, making bail, runnin' the trap, haters, beef, women, etc. I mean who wants to be involved with such things at the age of 22 or more

There were country acts from the past that had similar topics like Waylon Jennings and David Allan Coe. Instead of a "club" it was getting drunk in a "honky tonk". They had songs about fighting and jail too. Their music was not marketed to teens. Merle Haggard & Johnny Paycheck actually served prison sentances. Willie Nelson is almost 80 and still talking about weed. So there is no age limit for these things.

MickyDolenz said:

There were country acts from the past that had similar topics like Waylon Jennings and David Allan Coe. Instead of a "club" it was getting drunk in a "honky tonk". They had songs about fighting and jail too. Their music was not marketed to teens. Merle Haggard & Johnny Paycheck actually served prison sentances. Willie Nelson is almost 80 and still talking about weed. So there is no age limit for these things.

All very well and true, but none of those acts have such destructive reign on urban youth and culture when compared to Hip Hop/Rap. No other music genre promotes as much misogny, violence, ignorance, coonery, and buffoonery as rap. It barely quantifies as music and I can't wait until the day it is deemed as "defunct" and not a hot commodity.

the record companys aprove of gangsta rap because it makes black men and women look like savages and they can make a lot of money doing it.

gdiminished said:

namepeace said:

Creatively, gangsta rap is in a state of arrested development. No pun intended. It provides a lot of negative reinforcement. Much of it loses its appeal to fans as they age (myself included). All of that is true.

But gangsta rap, the predominant sound of hip-hop for a generation, is STILL only a subgenre of hip-hop. NWA didn't invent hip-hop.

For nearly 2 generations, hip-hop artists have produced great work. "The Message" and "They Reminisce Over You" by themselves prove your critique is overly broad.

Anyone who knows the work of Public Enemy, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Common, The Jungle Brothers, Little Brother, or similar artists knows your view is incomplete. Even some of the artists associated with gangsta rap have made songs or albums of substance.

This is not to say you don't make valid points, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. In justifiably critiquing the state of hip-hop, you simply can't condemn it in its entirety.

Maybe you didn't intend that.

At this point Johnny Q public won't be able to differentiate between Wu-Tang (if they even remember them quite honestly) and Young Jeezy as the astute listener will be able to tell the difference easily. The current generation has irrecovably lost its roots (no pun intended) to golden and silver age MCs and are all about making the ''Bands Make 'Em Dance''.

I am not sure what merits can be drawn from Hip Hop in its current state.

If they can't tell the difference, they're deaf...

jackson35 said:

the record companys aprove of gangsta rap because it makes black men and women look like savages and they can make a lot of money doing it.

http://www.hiphopisread.com/2012/04/secret-meeting-that-changed-rap-music.html

Maybe because music has been stagnant.

For one thing, it's not going anywhere as a genre because it reflects what is going on in the real world. So some people will continue to identify with it.

But as a mainstream form of popular music, I think it's ready for an update, as it's getting kind of old. But mainstream music is not doing well.

I kind of agree with Jackson 35, a lot of record companies exploit trends and the gangsta rap/very sexy soul/R and B trend has been milked for 25 years now. By the latter I mean people like Nicky Minaj, Chris Brown, Neyo etc. Their music is not rap, but its close with guest rappers usually chucking some lyrix in their songs.

Its nothing new, as far back as 1973, the record major stop signing new Black acts unless they sang Barry White style bedroom soul. Seriously listen to an Atlanic records or Motown best of CD and the message soul songs end in 1972 and 1973 is stuff like Lets get it on and Keep on Trucking, even the Miracles did Love Machine. (All really good songs, but oh so immature sexualised lyrics that portrayed Black people to the Mandingo stereotype being perpetuated by Blaxploitation movies).

Every song after 1973 excluding a few acts like Stevie, Roberta and Aretha had a bevy of deep voiced, get down baby type songs with cheesy wah wah guitar tracks. It has persisted to this day with ho acts like Rhianna, her music is terrible.

Rap is the same, a group of middle aged men (Iceberg slim, Rick Ross, Jay Z) going on about the type of shit 17 year olds do. Some of these guys have grown ass children with more maturity than then.

I was hardcore rap up to about the age of 19, what happened, I grew out of the stuff and gave all my rap tapes and CD's to my 10 year old cousin, not the best move as he started thinking he was a white Biggie Smalls (This was 1996). Between 14 and 19, besides Prince I listened to a lot of Ice T, Ice Cube, NWA, Easy E, 2 live crew, Snoop, Biggie, 2pac and Dre, but at least these guys had skillz!!! Young Jeezy, Chingy, T - Pain, these clowns don't have any skills, 50 cent is way overrated. At least with Biggie, I mean that guy could flow, his rhymes were nonsense lyrics mostly but they sounded great and he had the deep voice and a natural flow of words that matched the beat, and even if it was nonsense songs like Me and my Bitch were funny. Plus Biggie had one thing these other clown didn't, he actually grew up in the hood and was rapping from experiences he had.

Even today labels still exploit marginally talented performers, in the mid 90s there was a grunge fad, where dozens of bands were signed and then dumped in 1996 when grunge went out of fashion.

Now its marginally talented "Idol and X factor" type singers and manufactured pop bands, One Direction come to mind and Justin Bieber, already their stars are on the wane. I mean who even remembers Miley Cyrus, Gaga, Jonas Brothers, Nick Carter, Fantasia and Britney spears.

With rappers its been going longer. Who remembers Chingy, Young Buck, Yung Joc, TPAin, Ying Yang twinz, Lloyd Banks, Flo rida is on the way down. These people have such marginal talent and their careers are 18 month tops, 2 albums 4 singles and a few mixtapes. Plus they are usually forced to give back the cars, jewels, ice, champagne and other bling on their covers, as their last album bombed at #213 with only 8,654 copies sold, but it cost a million to make because you had Ke$ha or Bustarhymes rap on one of yo trax.

MickyDolenz said:

gdiminished said:

As I always believed, gangster rap, or Hip Hop in general seems to be a bit immature and geared towards the 20 and under crowd. Think about what the songs and lifestyle endorses: fighting in clubs, getting locked up, making bail, runnin' the trap, haters, beef, women, etc. I mean who wants to be involved with such things at the age of 22 or more

There were country acts from the past that had similar topics like Waylon Jennings and David Allan Coe. Instead of a "club" it was getting drunk in a "honky tonk". They had songs about fighting and jail too. Their music was not marketed to teens. Merle Haggard & Johnny Paycheck actually served prison sentances. Willie Nelson is almost 80 and still talking about weed. So there is no age limit for these things.

I've always said shit hoppers are like a black version of rednecks.

gdiminished said:

namepeace said:

Creatively, gangsta rap is in a state of arrested development. No pun intended. It provides a lot of negative reinforcement. Much of it loses its appeal to fans as they age (myself included). All of that is true.

But gangsta rap, the predominant sound of hip-hop for a generation, is STILL only a subgenre of hip-hop. NWA didn't invent hip-hop.

For nearly 2 generations, hip-hop artists have produced great work. "The Message" and "They Reminisce Over You" by themselves prove your critique is overly broad.

Anyone who knows the work of Public Enemy, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Common, The Jungle Brothers, Little Brother, or similar artists knows your view is incomplete. Even some of the artists associated with gangsta rap have made songs or albums of substance.

This is not to say you don't make valid points, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. In justifiably critiquing the state of hip-hop, you simply can't condemn it in its entirety.

Maybe you didn't intend that.

At this point Johnny Q public won't be able to differentiate between Wu-Tang (if they even remember them quite honestly) and Young Jeezy as the astute listener will be able to tell the difference easily. The current generation has irrecovably lost its roots (no pun intended) to golden and silver age MCs and are all about making the ''Bands Make 'Em Dance''.

I guess your argument is a "tree falling in the woods" one, and I don't disagree with the premise. But I read your post as applying to hip-hop in general. In any event, the fact that the listener can't discern doesn't mean ALL of the product lacks merit.

I am not sure what merits can be drawn from Hip Hop in its current state.

If limited to the product in the mainstream I'd be inclined to agree, but there are a lot of artists -- old and new -- putting down quality work beyond the mainstream. Talib Kweli and Hi-Tek's recent effort being only one example.

Hip-hop suffers from diminishing returns but it's not completely lost yet. The best work often doesn't get attention.

Adorecream said:

I kind of agree with Jackson 35, a lot of record companies exploit trends and the gangsta rap/very sexy soul/R and B trend has been milked for 25 years now.

They can't exploit something that doesn't sell. Look at the other trends that died off in the mainstream like rockabilly, disco, hair metal, new wave, pet rocks, CB radios, Q-Bert, Cabbage Patch Kids, He-Man, Police Academy movies, etc. They usually fell off rather quickly. As long as lots of people buy it, it will remain.

MickyDolenz said:

Adorecream said:

I kind of agree with Jackson 35, a lot of record companies exploit trends and the gangsta rap/very sexy soul/R and B trend has been milked for 25 years now.

They can't exploit something that doesn't sell. Look at the other trends that died off in the mainstream like rockabilly, disco, hair metal, new wave, pet rocks, CB radios, Q-Bert, Cabbage Patch Kids, He-Man, Police Academy movies, etc. They usually fell off rather quickly. As long as lots of people buy it, it will remain.

Very true.

But . . . the face of hip-hop is now in middle age.

What goes up eventually comes down.

Swing enjoyed a lengthy run.

So did R&B/Soul.

Hip-Hop has too.

But they all decline, replaced by something they didn't see coming.

It's been replaced by shit like trap rap lol

The new thing is that gothic type rap shit from people like A$AP Rocky and Spaceghostpurrp and his Raider Klan collective. It's not really what you call "gangsta rap".

Timmy84 said:

It's been replaced by shit like trap rap lol

The new thing is that gothic type rap shit from people like A$AP Rocky and Spaceghostpurrp and his Raider Klan collective. It's not really what you call "gangsta rap".

A lot of these new cats should be paying royalties to MF Doom. Hopefully, as these new acts gain a following, Madvillainy will get the propers it deserves.

[Edited 1/23/13 14:40pm]

I think some of the rappers and popular R&B acts release music like most music acts did before the 1980's. They put out music often, so people don't forget about them. They don't wait years between releases like George Michael, Sade, Sting, or Basia. They don't take 10 years to record an album like Stevie Wonder or Axl Rose. Ringtone music is cheaper to produce too. They don't have as much studio time and don't have to pay session musicians. Ultimately, it was technology that made that made old style music making obsolete.