MickyDolenz said:

Harlepolis said:

Micky, you don't have to divert the discussion when it shouldn't be, this thread ain't about the decline of easy listening, polka, or what have you, its about R&B.

Focus, people, focus.

The genre is irrelevant. The old R&B fell out of favor just like easy listening, rockabilly, ragtime, and other music that was once mainsream. Newer generations usually listened to a different style of music from their parents/grandparents. The previous generations usually didn't like the music and fashions of their children. Why should R&B be exempt? If you don't like it, then don't listen to it. It's simple as that. What's the point of saying it's bad?

Yeah, whats the point of having a discussion forum if we can't discuss about it

And no, I don't listen to R&B anymore, but that shouldn't stop folks to talk about why they ceased to. Later for this passive "If you don't like it, shut up and move on" bullshit.

Harlepolis said:

MickyDolenz said:

The genre is irrelevant. The old R&B fell out of favor just like easy listening, rockabilly, ragtime, and other music that was once mainsream. Newer generations usually listened to a different style of music from their parents/grandparents. The previous generations usually didn't like the music and fashions of their children. Why should R&B be exempt? If you don't like it, then don't listen to it. It's simple as that. What's the point of saying it's bad?

Yeah, whats the point of having a discussion forum if we can't discuss about it

And no, I don't listen to R&B anymore, but that shouldn't stop folks to talk about why they ceased to. Later for this passive "If you don't like it, shut up and move on" bullshit.

vainandy said:

Uh....excuse me, but when funk and disco came along, easy listening had been out of style and music had already gone through multiple style changes before those two genres ever existed. And it wasn't those two genres that ran it out of style either. It was when Elvis Presley introduced black music to the white world and called it rock and roll and it became the white mainstream.

The same way funk/disco bands have been out out style for a long time. Funk's heyday was the 1970's to the mid 1980's. I recall funk groups like Cameo, Gap Band, & Bar Kays later made some New Jack Swing songs. The Isleys started doing "Mr. Biggs". There were later groups like Tony! Toni! Tone! that did funk/R&B mixed with some hip hop. But large R&B/funk bands became too expensive to maintain, with shrinking popularity in the US, and the beatmakers took over. Music goes out of style like new wave and hair metal. Why would older styles of R&B come back when other types like psychedelic rock didn't. You just said music evolves. It would evolve from what a current generation's music, not from a style of music from 2 or 3 generations ago. There's an occasional act that performs a long out of mainstream music like Manhattan Transfer, Stray Cats, The Pipettes, or Big Bad Voodoo Daddy that gets some level of popularity. But that's not the norm.

The current mainstream generation didn't grow up with funk, they grew up with Eminem & Beyonce. On the country side, they might have heard Rascal Flatts, not Merle Haggard or Oak Ridge Boys. I guess most people of the generation that listened to Merle Haggard or George Jones is not buying Taylor Swift. The record companies is only putting out records that appeal to as large of an audience as possible. The mainstream music you don't like is helping finance less popular music that you do like. It's like the same way that "art films" could not be made without the profits from blockbuster animation and action movies. There's room for everything.

MickyDolenz said:

vainandy said:

Uh....excuse me, but when funk and disco came along, easy listening had been out of style and music had already gone through multiple style changes before those two genres ever existed. And it wasn't those two genres that ran it out of style either. It was when Elvis Presley introduced black music to the white world and called it rock and roll and it became the white mainstream.

The same way funk/disco bands have been out out style for a long time. Funk's heyday was the 1970's to the mid 1980's. I recall funk groups like Cameo, Gap Band, & Bar Kays later made some New Jack Swing songs. The Isleys started doing "Mr. Biggs". There were later groups like Tony! Toni! Tone! that did funk/R&B mixed with some hip hop. But large R&B/funk bands became too expensive to maintain, with shrinking popularity in the US, and the beatmakers took over. Music goes out of style like new wave and hair metal. Why would older styles of R&B come back when other types like psychedelic rock didn't. You just said music evolves. It would evolve from what a current generation's music, not from a style of music from 2 or 3 generations ago. There's an occasional act that performs a long out of mainstream music like Manhattan Transfer, Stray Cats, The Pipettes, or Big Bad Voodoo Daddy that gets some level of popularity. But that's not the norm.

The current mainstream generation didn't grow up with funk, they grew up with Eminem & Beyonce. On the country side, they might have heard Rascal Flatts, not Merle Haggard or Oak Ridge Boys. I guess most people of the generation that listened to Merle Haggard or George Jones is not buying Taylor Swift. The record companies is only putting out records that appeal to as large of an audience as possible. The mainstream music you don't like is helping finance less popular music that you do like. It's like the same way that "art films" could not be made without the profits from blockbuster animation and action movies. There's room for everything.

Who said anything about funk or disco coming back. I just simply originally said if they want to bring any of the older crowd back to R&B, they would have to bring it back like they did with blues down here in Mississippi which is what the majority of older black people listen to down here. They listen to blues and nothing else these days. And most of it is recorded right here in Jackson so yes, it's a local thing and not a national thing. But it can be done.

No, funk and disco is never coming back. Hell, I live in reality, I know that. Once something goes out of style, it doesn't come back. It may come back in some sort of reincarnation but the reincarnation is never as strong what influenced it. Disco was reincarnated and came back as house music and while house music sounded great, no, it wasn't as strong and great as disco which came before it. I've heard elements of funk come back in some that stuff that you have to "search for" these days which y'all love to preach about as if "searching" for something gives you a sexual orgasm, but it's not the same as the actual funk that existed before and a lot of it sounds more like funky jazz which is a turnoff to me, rather than just straight out funk. It kinda has a feel like it's trying to appeal to the "elite" folks who get off on "searching" for stuff and love to pride themselves on how "diverse" they are. None of that shit means a hill of beans to me, I don't put on airs, I just like to jam. Even blues, which dominates down here, isn't as strong as the ZZ Hill, Denise LaSalle type stuff of the 1980s, and even that stuff that I liked then probably wouldn't appeal to the old Muddy Waters type fans. No, when things do come back, they're never as strong as they were before.

When it comes to R&B though, I just want a complete style change altogether which is greatly needed because there hasn't been one in over 20 years and that was unheard of before shit hop took over when styles changed every five years or so or at least at the beginning of a new decade. And to tell you the truth, if there is a complete style change, with my current financial situation of living paycheck to paycheck, I almost hope it's a form of music that I don't like so I won't be tempted to spend my money on it and be even broker than I am. And since there's no good music in clubs anymore either, I've moved to a nice affordable safe area in a suburb town right outside of Jackson (Jackson is too expensive to live in a safe area) and there is hardly any crime in this town so the police are notorious for having nothing better to do with their time but try to catch speeders and DUIs. It didn't bother me though because I knew I would no longer be going out clubbing since there's no longer good music in the clubs. So no, I don't want to possibly be tempted to go out and then have to dodge the police all the way home and possibly get a DUI.

But even if a style change comes and it's not something I like, I just want to see that damn shit hop die and disappear completely from the face of the earth, at least in my lifetime anyway. That bullshit has dominated for over 20 years which is damn rediculous and it is THE most no talent, ignorant, homophobic, degrading, not to meniton, the DULLEST form of music ever made in the history of recorded music and that bullshit has done more to damage the image of the black race than the old minstrel shows. I hate that shit with a passion and it will be like a pure orgasm to me if it ever dies.

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[Edited 1/11/13 13:19pm]

I actually think that R&B has been improving recently with artists like Miguel, Frank Ocean, The Weeknd, Elle Varner, Janelle Monáe, and others. I know that it's not like in the 60's or 70's when there was tons of great R&B/Soul artists but I like the direction that R&B is going in recently. Of course there may be many who dislike this direction but I think it's just because as with most major genres R&B changes a lot, and sometimes people don't like change in general or the particular changes going on but I'm excited for the new direction R&B is going in.

Oh and of course Drake isn't R&B or Chris Brown or whoever, at least to me. I don't say this because it's disrespectful to Marvin Gaye or any greats of the past because every genre has performers who I think make quality music and performers who don't. However, to me it is obvious that these kinds of artists are Hip-Hop, or at least a kind of blend between R&B, Pop, and Hip-Hop but they aren't R&B IMO. I always thought of Drake in particular as a rapper who also does some singing (I don't think he does either well).

MiniJamesW said:

I actually think that R&B has been improving recently with artists like Miguel, Frank Ocean, The Weeknd, Elle Varner, Janelle Monáe, and others. I know that it's not like in the 60's or 70's when there was tons of great R&B/Soul artists but I like the direction that R&B is going in recently. Of course there may be many who dislike this direction but I think it's just because as with most major genres R&B changes a lot, and sometimes people don't like change in general or the particular changes going on but I'm excited for the new direction R&B is going in.

Oh and of course Drake isn't R&B or Chris Brown or whoever, at least to me. I don't say this because it's disrespectful to Marvin Gaye or any greats of the past because every genre has performers who I think make quality music and performers who don't. However, to me it is obvious that these kinds of artists are Hip-Hop, or at least a kind of blend between R&B, Pop, and Hip-Hop but they aren't R&B IMO. I always thought of Drake in particular as a rapper who also does some singing (I don't think he does either well).

Harlepolis said:

Start of the bad

[Edited 1/12/13 3:08am]

iaminparties said:

Todays Hip-Hop and R&B-Vile piece of amphibian shit

Fuck Drake

Fuck Frank Ocean and Miguel

Fuck underground artist-Boring and Isolating

Fuck You if you disagree with me.

What current artists do you like?

MiniJamesW said:

iaminparties said:

Todays Hip-Hop and R&B-Vile piece of amphibian shit

Fuck Drake

Fuck Frank Ocean and Miguel

Fuck underground artist-Boring and Isolating

Fuck You if you disagree with me.

What current artists do you like?

Techo/electronic music and I have no clue who the artist are.I just listen to the music.

Mostly everything including today's rock music bores me.

I listen to old music at my house and go to the techo clubs.Good enough for me.

I was just stating of what I felt about current R&B music.My opinion-Boring

iaminparties said:

Techo/electronic music and I have no clue who the artist are.I just listen to the music.

Mostly everything including today's rock music bores me.

I listen to old music at my house and go to the techo clubs.Good enough for me.

I was just stating of what I felt about current R&B music.My opinion-Boring

Cool, well if you like techno/electronic music and don't know the artist, then are you sure they are not "underground artists"? I think it's wrong for you to say that all underground artists are boring and isolating.

I respect your opinion on current R&B music, it is going in a new direction and some may not like it including you. I personally like it but I can understand why you don't. I just don't like how you seem to just say "fuck you" to those who disagree with you!

[Edited 1/11/13 20:28pm]

When it comes to Rap or Gangsta Rap, nobody exploited Black people, some Black people decided to sale their souls. A lot of Black folks stood around watched and never said a word., unitlil it was too late. For decades Black folks hooped and hollered about how we where portrayed in print and film. When we were given the opportunity to do better, I be damn if some of use didn't make the conscious decisions to embrace the lowest common denominator. Rap didn't invent misogyny, Rap didn't create the violence in our community either... that shit has been happening forever. We need to fess up to some shit and stop lyin'.

That being said...

All I said was, that the institutions that help create, nurture and sustain Black music are no longer there. Mr. Rizik speaks as if these artist, musician's, and songwriters are somewhere patiently waiting on the sidelines to get back in the game. All that needs to be done is at a snap of a finger and it will all comeback. To all you black folks on this forum how many young people do you know who play an instrument(s)? How many of them are in a band? More importantly what venues do you go do to listen to live music? More importantly, its gotten harder and harder for musicians to find places to play that pay them... so the can have an income to live while they also hone their craft. Because of this we are now living with the consequences of this bullshit being pushed, marketed, and sold as music.

Does Pop Sound Louder, Dumber, and More and More the Same? One Study Says So

MiniJamesW said:

iaminparties said:

Techo/electronic music and I have no clue who the artist are.I just listen to the music.

Mostly everything including today's rock music bores me.

I listen to old music at my house and go to the techo clubs.Good enough for me.

I was just stating of what I felt about current R&B music.My opinion-Boring

Cool, well if you like techno/electronic music and don't know the artist, then are you sure they are not "underground artists"? I think it's wrong for you to say that all underground artists are boring and isolating.

I respect your opinion on current R&B music, it is going in a new direction and some may not like it including you. I personally like it but I can understand why you don't. I just don't like how you seem to just say "fuck you" to those who disagree with you!

[Edited 1/11/13 20:28pm]

Most underground artist are boring,from my experience.Techo/electronic ain't underground,since it's popularly played at clubs and you share the music with lots of people,not isolating.I dunno alot of artist names,including those on some popular songs.Someone gave me shit here on some band,because I didn't know who played guitar and bass on particular song.If I had to learn who's who and who played what on every record,I go INSANE! Just listen to the music.I know the artists that I really,really liked.

Lady Gaga and Maroon 5- Today's popular artist

TD3 said:

When it comes to Rap or Gangsta Rap, nobody exploited Black people, some Black people decided to sale their souls. A lot of Black folks stood around watched and never said a word., unitlil it was too late. For decades Black folks hooped and hollered about how we where portrayed in print and film. When we were given the opportunity to do better, I be damn if some of use didn't make the conscious decisions to embrace the lowest common denominator. Rap didn't invent misogyny, Rap didn't create the violence in our community either... that shit has been happening forever. We need to fess up to some shit and stop lyin'.

That being said...

All I said was, that the institutions that help create, nurture and sustain Black music are no longer there. Mr. Rizik speaks as if these artist, musician's, and songwriters are somewhere patiently waiting on the sidelines to get back in the game. All that needs to be done is at a snap of a finger and it will all comeback. To all you black folks on this forum how many young people do you know who play an instrument(s)? How many of them are in a band? More importantly what venues do you go do to listen to live music? More importantly, its gotten harder and harder for musicians to find places to play that pay them... so the can have an income to live while they also hone their craft. Because of this we are now living with the consequences of this bullshit being pushed, marketed, and sold as music.

Does Pop Sound Louder, Dumber, and More and More the Same? One Study Says So

Not many music programs in school,if any at all.When I was in highschool,I had music appreciation class,which was about embracing different kinds of music,but we didn't learn about instruments or how to compose music.This was in the 90s.Most of the kids in my class were black and hispanic.

I would think a band is far more expensive to produce than a machine.

iaminparties said:

Most underground artist are boring,from my experience.Techo/electronic ain't underground,since it's popularly played at clubs and you share the music with lots of people,not isolating.I dunno alot of artist names,including those on some popular songs.Someone gave me shit here on some band,because I didn't know who played guitar and bass on particular song.If I had to learn who's who and who played what on every record,I go INSANE! Just listen to the music.I know the artists that I really,really liked.

Lady Gaga and Maroon 5- Today's popular artist

Well I don't agree with everything you said but I'm glad you have something to enjoy! I don't see what's wrong with enjoying music on your own but some people just want to dance with music so I see your point. I personally like knowing about the artists and musicians on a song so I can get more of their work but not everyone does, it's cool that you can just enjoy a piece for what it is unlike some people who enjoy the piece just because it's by a particular artist or dislike a piece if it's not from someone they know. I love electronic music as well (it's probably my favorite genre from 90's to the present, and I love electronic music from as early as the 1950's)!