And just like alot of "2300 Street" sounds achingly contemporary, it's the same with the Gamble/Huff albums they did. If you don't like the sound, you ain't gonna like those albums and vice versa. And whilst the Gamble/Huff stuff hasn't dated half as badly as "2300", it's still very "mid 70's" to me.

Anyway, I don't like the Gamble/Huff sound. Way too smooth and sedate for me and in general, too tmany "message songs", but I do still love "show you the way to go" and still dig "even though your gone" and "find me a girl", but I actually prefer their late motown stuff to their first 2 CBS albums LOL, and that ain't saying much as I didn't like them much either. It was the wrong fit for them I feel personally, barring the few exceptions I mentioned.

And they didn't even really write that much of their own material off those albums, making them not that much better off creatively then their Motown work. Iam not surprised that after "Goin' places" pretty much bombed, both Joe Jackson and Michael went to the head of CBS and demanded more control (which was lucky as apparantly CBS was ready to drop them had it not been for Joe and Mike's enthusiasm for wanting to try something new)

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Play It Up and She would have been good single choices.

The local R&B station used to play She at the time. It was played more than any of the Randy & The Gypsys songs. But Jermaine's solo song Don't Take It Personal was played more than anything from the 2300 album. All 3 albums (the Jacksons, Jermaine, Randy) came out around the same time, so they probably canceled each other out. Then Randy was on A&M and I suppose they put more attention on Janet's Rhythm Nation.

[Edited 12/13/12 21:22pm]

thesexofit said:

And just like alot of "2300 Street" sounds achingly contemporary, it's the same with the Gamble/Huff albums they did. If you don't like the sound, you ain't gonna like those albums and vice versa. And whilst the Gamble/Huff stuff hasn't dated half as badly as "2300", it's still very "mid 70's" to me.

Anyway, I don't like the Gamble/Huff sound. Way too smooth and sedate for me and in general, too tmany "message songs", but I do still love "show you the way to go" and still dig "even though your gone" and "find me a girl", but I actually prefer their late motown stuff to their first 2 CBS albums LOL, and that ain't saying much as I didn't like them much either. It was the wrong fit for them I feel personally, barring the few exceptions I mentioned.

And they didn't even really write that much of their own material off those albums, making them not that much better off creatively then their Motown work. Iam not surprised that after "Goin' places" pretty much bombed, both Joe Jackson and Michael went to the head of CBS and demanded more control (which was lucky as apparantly CBS was ready to drop them had it not been for Joe and Mike's enthusiasm for wanting to try something new)

I tell you what, If I had a choice between a perceived "too" many message songs vs the crime being aired on radio stations and music videos today, give me the message songs any day of the week, I'll take those songs in a heartbeat

I've seen 2 and a half generations (over the past 25 years), particular youth in the inner city neighborhoods, the environment which I've basically grew up in...Iv'e seen cats be led estray by lyrical content that has totally shredded conscious, destroyed lives, and brought forth a great deal of hostility

I love Gamble and Huff and what stood for and what they represented and I know they wake up every day w/their heads held high because they made a deliberate choice to never release any material that would destroy minds. See their hands are clean, they sought to uplife culture rather than exploit it

I just think our culture has fallen in so many ways...but it was done so deliberately, and with very diabolically clever calculation.....

[Edited 12/13/12 21:43pm]

MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Play It Up and She would have been good single choices.

The local R&B station used to play She at the time. It was played more than any of the Randy & The Gypsys songs. But Jermaine's solo song Don't Take It Personal was played more than anything from the 2300 album. All 3 albums (the Jacksons, Jermaine, Randy) came out around the same time, so they probably canceled each other out. Then Randy was on A&M and I suppose they put more attention on Janet's Rhythm Nation.

[Edited 12/13/12 21:22pm]

Did Jackie's album come out before or after that trio?

Also, I always thought it was terrible managment on the brothers part to release their records so close to one another.

They had the whole 1988 to release a record.

Even a few years early, Marlon dropped Baby Tonight right around the time Mike put Bad out ... what was Marlon thinking, lol.

Scorp said:

thesexofit said:

And just like alot of "2300 Street" sounds achingly contemporary, it's the same with the Gamble/Huff albums they did. If you don't like the sound, you ain't gonna like those albums and vice versa. And whilst the Gamble/Huff stuff hasn't dated half as badly as "2300", it's still very "mid 70's" to me.

Anyway, I don't like the Gamble/Huff sound. Way too smooth and sedate for me and in general, too tmany "message songs", but I do still love "show you the way to go" and still dig "even though your gone" and "find me a girl", but I actually prefer their late motown stuff to their first 2 CBS albums LOL, and that ain't saying much as I didn't like them much either. It was the wrong fit for them I feel personally, barring the few exceptions I mentioned.

And they didn't even really write that much of their own material off those albums, making them not that much better off creatively then their Motown work. Iam not surprised that after "Goin' places" pretty much bombed, both Joe Jackson and Michael went to the head of CBS and demanded more control (which was lucky as apparantly CBS was ready to drop them had it not been for Joe and Mike's enthusiasm for wanting to try something new)

I tell you what, If I had a choice between a perceived "too" many message songs vs the crime being aired on radio stations and music videos today, give me the message songs any day of the week, I'll take those songs in a heartbeat

I've seen 2 and a half generations (over the past 25 years), particular youth in the inner city neighborhoods, the environment which I've basically grew up in...Iv'e seen cats be led estray by lyrical content that has totally shredded conscious and brought forth a great deal of hostility

I love Gamble and Huff and what stood for and what they represented and I know they wake up every day w/their heads held high because they made a deliberate choice to never release any material that would destroy minds. See their hands are clean, they sought to uplife culture rather than exploited

I just think our culture has fallen in so many ways...but it was done so deliberately, and with very diabolically clever calculation.....

Oh don't get me wrong, message songs are no bad thing, personally Iam partial to uber cheesy "we are the world" type anthems that were everywhere for a while, but I just felt they did a few too many. And I agree that I'd rather have positive, albiet possibly rather naive and cheesy,but uplifting pop/rnb records then the crass lyrical content you get these days. Particually all the wanna be G "don't mess with the best" posers who repeat the same tired boastful message over and over again that you had in rap a while ago. Yes rap battles started it, but its overkill sometimes.....

In the 70's in general, social conciousness was being included in more mainstream movies and music, whilst the 80's were greedy and corporate etc..., but even the 80's attitudes about status and money was still more healthy then todays vacuous or even slightly sociapathic lyrics that pass off as pop music today. Social networking is partly to blame for this culture of self important nobodies spouting inane, asinine bullshit that they think everyone should here, and I guess that has to flow into pop music too, as pop music reflects today's society and vice versa.

So yes I agree with you, and pop music reflects trends and back in the 70's, in mainstream culture, people like Gamble and Huff were "fighting the good fight" as it were with social songs in pop music, which was unusual even back then, but I just don't like alot of it LOL.

LiLi1992 said:

Okay, exactly a year ago, it was a battle of Destiny and Triumph (Triumph won08-)
Now the number of participants has expanded ... I finally listened to each album in full (some - not just once, many times, to be honest )

if with Triumph and Destiny all clear ... it is their top 2, but what about the others?

For me:

1. Triumph 9/10 (the album is really good, I did notice that I prefer it to Off the wall)
2. Destiny 8/10 (some of the best songs for the band ever: Blame It On The Boogie and Shake Your Body)
3. The Jacksons 7/10 (good collection of decent songs, but did not have classic tracks)
4. Goin 'Places 6/10 (it was the last album I listened to... this album usually does not get enough respect, but it`s not bad)

5. Victory 4/10 (a classic example of the album, which is recorded on need .... although I like State of shock ... my dad (not the biggest MJ fan ) loves it too).

Opinions...

I agree with your list 100%.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

MickyDolenz said:

The local R&B station used to play She at the time. It was played more than any of the Randy & The Gypsys songs. But Jermaine's solo song Don't Take It Personal was played more than anything from the 2300 album. All 3 albums (the Jacksons, Jermaine, Randy) came out around the same time, so they probably canceled each other out. Then Randy was on A&M and I suppose they put more attention on Janet's Rhythm Nation.

[Edited 12/13/12 21:22pm]

Did Jackie's album come out before or after that trio?

Also, I always thought it was terrible managment on the brothers part to release their records so close to one another.

They had the whole 1988 to release a record.

Even a few years early, Marlon dropped Baby Tonight right around the time Mike put Bad out ... what was Marlon thinking, lol.

LOL, as the brothers were all on different labels (aswell as Lotoya), I guess they didn't mind the brothers going off to do "2300 Jackson Street". None of them bar Michael were on CBS, so I guess they thought it wouldn't effect them? But thats just a silly guess but your right about sheer amount of Jackson related product back then.

Latoya's album bombed though and Jackies unfortunately didn't do much better abit later. Shame as his solo album was hot. He has a limited voice, but he knew that and producer Robert Brookins, who himself is alot better singer, plays to Jackie's rather limited strenths. An underated album for sure.

1. Triumph

2. Destiny

3. The Jacksons

4. Goin' Places

5. Victory

6. 2300 Jackson Street (I didn't even buy that shit)

Only Jackson i ever really cared for are Destiny & Triumph

I would say Destiny & Triumph after that for me.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

MickyDolenz said:

The local R&B station used to play She at the time. It was played more than any of the Randy & The Gypsys songs. But Jermaine's solo song Don't Take It Personal was played more than anything from the 2300 album. All 3 albums (the Jacksons, Jermaine, Randy) came out around the same time, so they probably canceled each other out. Then Randy was on A&M and I suppose they put more attention on Janet's Rhythm Nation.

[Edited 12/13/12 21:22pm]

Did Jackie's album come out before or after that trio?

Also, I always thought it was terrible managment on the brothers part to release their records so close to one another.

They had the whole 1988 to release a record.

Even a few years early, Marlon dropped Baby Tonight right around the time Mike put Bad out ... what was Marlon thinking, lol.

what was he thinking?

well, THIS is what he was thinking

see, the truth ain't being told, the majority wants to believe the hype Michael did this by himself when that was never the case

history ain't being told right...I just continue to sit here and watch the hyperbole go unchecked

in 1987, when Marlon released Baby Tonight, his song "Don't Go" became the #1 r&b song in the United States, MEANING, that song was tops over everything else, EVERYTHING including Michael's single "Bad", MEANING, Marlon's song overtook "Bad" on the R&B charts, MEANING during the rise of video, particulary on BET before that network went to all hell, video rotation correlated w/chart position....Marlon's video supplanted Michael's video on BET'S "Video Soul"

what did this all mean? as his record was receiving staunch airplay on all radio?

for at least 3-4 weeks...not MICHAEL, but MARLON was the #1 R&B artist in the country, which was a hell of an accomplish since Michael had just released the most anticipated follow up album on wax.....

don't believe me?

http://www.youtube.com/wa...-3OK-iH96k

2:44-3:39

all of the signature jams by the brothers, the brothers played a role in creating those works together

SHAKE YOUR BODY DOWN TO THE GROUND was CO-WRITTEN by Randy Jackson and Michael Jackson......which means RANDY was the lead writer, for arguably, the most reknowned disco/r&b record in history

CAN YOU FEEL IT, standing right up there w/the national anthem, one of the greatest songs Michael Jackson ever performed (the original recorded version) was co-written by Michael and Jackie

oh, and the best tour Michael ever did, the tour where Michael was setting the stage on fire when his dancing prowess was at its absolute best...THE TRIUMPH TOUR......Marlon worked w/Michael in developing the brother's dance routines for those shows

and music critics, even compared to the Victory Tour always mentioned the Triumph Tour was the best live show Michael ever did

when the Victory Tour premiered, most music critics pointed out that tour was not as good as the Triumph Tour.....

thesexofit said:

Scorp said:

I tell you what, If I had a choice between a perceived "too" many message songs vs the crime being aired on radio stations and music videos today, give me the message songs any day of the week, I'll take those songs in a heartbeat

I've seen 2 and a half generations (over the past 25 years), particular youth in the inner city neighborhoods, the environment which I've basically grew up in...Iv'e seen cats be led estray by lyrical content that has totally shredded conscious and brought forth a great deal of hostility

I love Gamble and Huff and what stood for and what they represented and I know they wake up every day w/their heads held high because they made a deliberate choice to never release any material that would destroy minds. See their hands are clean, they sought to uplife culture rather than exploited

I just think our culture has fallen in so many ways...but it was done so deliberately, and with very diabolically clever calculation.....

Oh don't get me wrong, message songs are no bad thing, personally Iam partial to uber cheesy "we are the world" type anthems that were everywhere for a while, but I just felt they did a few too many. And I agree that I'd rather have positive, albiet possibly rather naive and cheesy,but uplifting pop/rnb records then the crass lyrical content you get these days. Particually all the wanna be G "don't mess with the best" posers who repeat the same tired boastful message over and over again that you had in rap a while ago. Yes rap battles started it, but its overkill sometimes.....

In the 70's in general, social conciousness was being included in more mainstream movies and music, whilst the 80's were greedy and corporate etc..., but even the 80's attitudes about status and money was still more healthy then todays vacuous or even slightly sociapathic lyrics that pass off as pop music today. Social networking is partly to blame for this culture of self important nobodies spouting inane, asinine bullshit that they think everyone should here, and I guess that has to flow into pop music too, as pop music reflects today's society and vice versa.

So yes I agree with you, and pop music reflects trends and back in the 70's, in mainstream culture, people like Gamble and Huff were "fighting the good fight" as it were with social songs in pop music, which was unusual even back then, but I just don't like alot of it LOL.

I hear ya and u stressed great points

[Edited 12/14/12 4:40am]

rdhull said:

LiLi1992 said:

3. The Jacksons 7/10 (good collection of decent songs, but did not have classic tracks)

Oh really?

Show You The Way To Go and Good Times are laughing at that statement.

Enjoy Yourself too obviously. I actually listen to The Jacksons more than Destiny.

Cinny said:

rdhull said:

Oh really?

Show You The Way To Go and Good Times are laughing at that statement.

Enjoy Yourself too obviously. I actually listen to The Jacksons more than Destiny.

yup forogt that one..lilly is either very young or very trippin'

LittleBLUECorvette said:

MickyDolenz said:

The local R&B station used to play She at the time. It was played more than any of the Randy & The Gypsys songs. But Jermaine's solo song Don't Take It Personal was played more than anything from the 2300 album. All 3 albums (the Jacksons, Jermaine, Randy) came out around the same time, so they probably canceled each other out. Then Randy was on A&M and I suppose they put more attention on Janet's Rhythm Nation.

Did Jackie's album come out before or after that trio?

Also, I always thought it was terrible managment on the brothers part to release their records so close to one another.

They had the whole 1988 to release a record.

Even a few years early, Marlon dropped Baby Tonight right around the time Mike put Bad out ... what was Marlon thinking, lol.

Mike and Marlon weren't in a group, so that's different. Mike didn't have a solo album out the same time as a Jacksons album. Just like Phil Collins & Mike Rutherford (Mike + The Mechanics) didn't release solo records when Genesis had an album out. Jermaine's Arista debut album was out at the same time as Victory, but he wasn't originally a part of the brothers album and came in halfway through the sessions. Jermaine's album was already being recorded and planned for release. Before that, Jermaine had albums out the same time as The Jacksons, but he wasn't a member, so there's no conflict in the same way as the 2300 situation, where he was a member.

rdhull said:

Cinny said:

Enjoy Yourself too obviously. I actually listen to The Jacksons more than Destiny.

yup forogt that one..lilly is either very young or very trippin'

I'm 20 ... I'm young, but not very .
before I became a fan of MJ, I ​​knew the only one The Jacksons song - "Blame it on the boogie"
they had some classic songs on Destiny and Triumph, but that’s all, IMHO.
I am sensitive about the word "classic", so I use it very limited.

LiLi1992 said:

rdhull said:

yup forogt that one..lilly is either very young or very trippin'

I'm 20 ... I'm young, but not very .
before I became a fan of MJ, I ​​knew the only one The Jacksons song - "Blame it on the boogie"
they had some classic songs on Destiny and Triumph, but that’s all, IMHO.
I am sensitive about the word "classic", so I use it very limited.

I dont know if they play songs like Show You The Way To Go and Enjoy Yourself in the UK but those are well known Jackson songs.

mjscarousal said:

LiLi1992 said:

I'm 20 ... I'm young, but not very .
before I became a fan of MJ, I ​​knew the only one The Jacksons song - "Blame it on the boogie"
they had some classic songs on Destiny and Triumph, but that’s all, IMHO.
I am sensitive about the word "classic", so I use it very limited.

I dont know if they play songs like Show You The Way To Go and Enjoy Yourself in the UK but those are well known Jackson songs.

I think that the UK radio stations sometimes play Show You The Way To Go, it was a hit number 1 in this country ... but what does this have to do with me, I live in Russia ...

LiLi1992 said:

mjscarousal said:

I dont know if they play songs like Show You The Way To Go and Enjoy Yourself in the UK but those are well known Jackson songs.

I think that the UK radio stations sometimes play Show You The Way To Go, it was a hit number 1 in this country ... but what does this have to do with me, I live in Russia ...

well THAT explains everything lol

LiLi1992 said:

rdhull said:

yup forogt that one..lilly is either very young or very trippin'

I'm 20 ... I'm young, but not very .

20...you're a thumbsucker lol

rdhull said:

LiLi1992 said:

I think that the UK radio stations sometimes play Show You The Way To Go, it was a hit number 1 in this country ... but what does this have to do with me, I live in Russia ...

well THAT explains everything lol

hey .... what exactly does this explains?
I knew that it was a mistake to write about the location, many are full of stupid stereotypes.

maybe in the U.S. they had a lot of classic songs, but the world is much more than a single country

LiLi1992 said:

rdhull said:

well THAT explains everything lol

hey .... what exactly does this explains?
I knew that it was a mistake to write about the location, many are full of stupid stereotypes.

maybe in the U.S. they had a lot of classic songs, but the world is much more than a single country

Those are well known songs even outside America Lili and just because you dont hear it doesnt mean it isnt Those particular songs would most likely play on oldies or R&B stations.

LiLi1992 said:

rdhull said:

well THAT explains everything lol

hey .... what exactly does this explains?
I knew that it was a mistake to write about the location, many are full of stupid stereotypes.

maybe in the U.S. they had a lot of classic songs, but the world is much more than a single country

Ya know what it explains? It explains how your lily white russian ass could not possible have the same experience with those songs as an american black family so you probably wouldnt consider anything on that album as classic..those songs ( Show You The Way/Good Times) are timeless and part of the black family experienence of yore..you probably only got into those albums after becoming a MJ fan.

Yall can get mad at what I wrote but who cares? lol

.

[Edited 12/15/12 11:04am]

I was annoyed by the interpretation of your post about me and my country ... not the facts stated in it.
I understand tradition and the difference in mentality.

but I still stand by the position that the word "classic" - an exclusive and should be used rather limited ....
I don`t care if someone not agree.

rdhull said:

those songs (Show You The Way/Good Times) are timeless and part of the black family experienence of yore

Are you saying all black people in the US listen to The Jacksons and care about those songs? Because that is not so.

LiLi1992 said:

I understand tradition and the difference in mentality.

the end

MickyDolenz said:

rdhull said:

those songs (Show You The Way/Good Times) are timeless and part of the black family experienence of yore

Are you saying all black people in the US listen to The Jacksons and care about those songs? Because that is not so.

O c'monnn he was not implying that... he used that as an example but I do believe there are more African Americans that appreciate those Jackson classics. That is NOT saying white people, asian people etc dont and that is not saying ALL African Americans appreciate those songs.

People seem to think classic songs have to be singles or hit records (popular). There are alot of songs that are classics that were not number one songs and that were not even released as singles.

MickyDolenz said:

rdhull said:

those songs (Show You The Way/Good Times) are timeless and part of the black family experienence of yore

Are you saying all black people in the US listen to The Jacksons and care about those songs? Because that is not so.

^^ladies n gents..a rocket scientist here

Emancipation89 said:

rdhull said:

Ya know what it explains? It explains how your lily white russian ass could not possible have the same experience with those songs as an american black family so you probably wouldnt consider anything on that album as classic..those songs ( Show You The Way/Good Times) are timeless and part of the black family experienence of yore..you probably only got into those albums after becoming a MJ fan.

Yall can get mad at what I wrote but who cares? lol

.

[Edited 12/15/12 11:04am]

White russian ass really? You know if it was the other way around and you were told your black American ass could not possibly have the same experience with the Stones as white British folks so it's quite surprising that you find majority of their songs to be classic, you would've totally lost it. You totally threw that "white" argument in just to irritate her. No the fact that she's white and Russian doesn't explain much as I've seen a lot of European Jacksons fans who would easily consider that song/album a classic. I will give you that where the person grew up often does play a role when it comes to considering something a classic but at the end of the day it really has more to do with one's personal taste in music and standard than anything imo.

Anyways I love this thread Lily *thumbsup*

Hey I left my thoughts to myself but she asked further. Now yall are mad because of my answer lol. And no I wouldnt get mad if it were the other way around because as EWF said: Thats The Way Of The World.

Hell, Im sure white folks understand GWAR much more than my black nappy headed ass could ever. So for me not to get GWARS catalogue compared to some others, well thats not racial, that is just life.

Of course this is not the case wih every musical artist out there but some extremes.

You say po-tat-to I say grits. Big deal

LiLi1992 said:

I was annoyed by the interpretation of your post about me and my country ... not the facts stated in it.
I understand tradition and the difference in mentality.

but I still stand by the position that the word "classic" - an exclusive and should be used rather limited ....
I don`t care if someone not agree.

I live in the Uk and consider myself an MJ fan, but I've never heard those songs - to this day.