Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Black music, to me, is the wonderful marriage of European and African music styles. I agree that the "Motherland" () played a big part in influencing black music, but I feel like people downplay the influence of European music significantly.

Exactly. That's why music is so rich and why our music was and is so rich because of the mixing of so many styles.

I should post more often, I'm liking the threads that have been posted recently. Nice one, Timmy.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Exactly. That's why music is so rich and why our music was and is so rich because of the mixing of so many styles.

I should post more often, I'm liking the threads that have been posted recently. Nice one, Timmy.

lol thanks but Guns posted this one though you may be talking about my R&B origins thread.

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I should post more often, I'm liking the threads that have been posted recently. Nice one, Timmy.

lol thanks but Guns posted this one though you may be talking about my R&B origins thread.

Yeah, I meant that lol Cause the R&B one sparked this one.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

lol thanks but Guns posted this one though you may be talking about my R&B origins thread.

Yeah, I meant that lol Cause the R&B one sparked this one.

Gotcha.

Most people don't know that rap is directly traceable to a strong Jamaican influence where the beginnigs of rap were fomenting almost a decade before it reached New York.

Since the late 60's Jamaican rappers known as DJ's or Toasters would tell stories (and often make political commentary) over stripped down instrumental tracks on the B side of popular 45 rpm singles that had singers on the A side and toasters on the B side.

The B sides were called "version" and many rivalries were born among the artists of the time who would make "cutting" records answering each other's braggadocio much in the way rivalries have emerged in the rap and hip hop world today.

They all had their stage names too. I-Roy and U-Roy and Prince Jazzbo, The Lone Ranger, Eek a Mouse, Big Youth, Yellowman and so many others. They would perform live at outdoor mobile events on street corners called Sound System Dances where a truck with speakers and turntables would show up and start blasting the bass heavy riddims to the neighborhoods. Sound Systems would have rivalries too and they would boast they had the best DJs toasting the tracks.

Here's an example of the toasting style of Tony Tuff:

And at http://en.wikipedia.org/w...of_Jamaica

DJs and toasting

Along with the rise of ska came the popularity of Deejays such as Sir Lord Comic, King Stitt and pioneer Count Matchuki, who began talking stylistically over the rhythms of popular songs at sound systems. In Jamaican music, the Deejay is the one who talks (known elsewhere as the MC) and the selector is the person who chooses the records. The popularity of Deejays as an essential component of the sound system, and created a need for instrumental songs, as well as instrumental versions of popular vocal songs.

In the late 1960s, producers such as King Tubby and Lee Perry began stripping the vocals away from tracks recorded for sound system parties. With the bare beats and bass playing and the lead instruments dropping in and out of the mix, Deejays began toasting, or delivering humorous and often provoking jabs at fellow Deejays and local celebrities. Over time, toasting became an increasingly complex activity, and became as big a draw as the dance beats played behind it. In the early 1970s, Deejays such as DJ Kool Herc took the practice of toasting to New York City, where it evolved into rap music.

DJ Kool Herc

[Edited 12/7/12 10:38am]

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

African dances? Yeah. Drumbeats? Yeah. Street lingo? LOL yeah it's logic, but the tradition was always in the music. But in the US, we turned something dismissed by many (especially in the black community) as noise and turned it into music (rap/hip-hop). But hell you can say R&B and jazz were black American traditions. African music had its own uniqueness to it. The African part we add were the bongos and congas and other percussive instruments. I'm of the opinion that the spirituals were from here, jazz was from here, blues was from here and gospel was from here (whether people believe that or not). I can understand why some would say it "all came from Africa" or "the Motherland" as some love to call it (I cringe at that name too lmao) but if you really think about it, it really didn't. Some jazz artists did add some African stuff to their thing and same in some funk records like I mentioned.

If anything, black people in America were really the ones that made it a tradition. But the dancing and drumming, yeah you can say, we got that from Africa. But if we can argue about Africa, mention the location. Because it was mainly in places like Cameroon where music was really ingrained at. I'm sure it spread to West and East Africa too. North Africa, though, had a lot of music that was far different from the congas and singing that came from the regions in West and East Africa (I don't know about South Africa in those days though).

Everything we know about black American music was created here in the U.S.

[Edited 12/6/12 9:17am]

Black music, to me, is the wonderful marriage of European and African music styles. I agree that the "Motherland" () played a big part in influencing black music, but I feel like people downplay the influence of European music significantly.

What European style would that be?

Graycap23 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Black music, to me, is the wonderful marriage of European and African music styles. I agree that the "Motherland" () played a big part in influencing black music, but I feel like people downplay the influence of European music significantly.

What European style would that be?

Just one example here, but European church hymns, folk songs, classical music, military marches, dances, etc. all influenced jazz music.

DakutiusMaximus said:

Most people don't know that rap is directly traceable to a strong Jamaican influence where the beginnigs of rap were fomenting almost a decade before it reaced New York.

Since the late 60's Jamaican rappers known as DJ's or Toasters would tell stories (and often make political commentary) over stripped down instrumental tracks on the B side of popular 45 rpm singles that had singers on the A side and toasters on the B side.

The B sides were called "version" and many rivalries were born among the artists of the time who would make "cutting" records answering each other's braggadocio much in the way rivalries have emerged in the rap and hip hop world today.

They all had their stage names too. I-Roy and U-Roy and Prince Jazzbo, The Lone Ranger, Eek a Mouse, Big Youth, Yellowman and so many others. They would perform live at outdoor mobile events on street corners called Sound System Dances where a truck with speakers and turntables would show up and start blasting the bass heavy riddims to the neighborhoods. Sound Systems would have rivalries too and they would boast they had the best DJs toasting the tracks.

Here's an example of the toasting style of Tony Tuff:

And at http://en.wikipedia.org/w...of_Jamaica

DJs and toasting

Along with the rise of ska came the popularity of Deejays such as Sir Lord Comic, King Stitt and pioneer Count Matchuki, who began talking stylistically over the rhythms of popular songs at sound systems. In Jamaican music, the Deejay is the one who talks (known elsewhere as the MC) and the selector is the person who chooses the records. The popularity of Deejays as an essential component of the sound system, and created a need for instrumental songs, as well as instrumental versions of popular vocal songs.

In the late 1960s, producers such as King Tubby and Lee Perry began stripping the vocals away from tracks recorded for sound system parties. With the bare beats and bass playing and the lead instruments dropping in and out of the mix, Deejays began toasting, or delivering humorous and often provoking jabs at fellow Deejays and local celebrities. Over time, toasting became an increasingly complex activity, and became as big a draw as the dance beats played behind it. In the early 1970s, Deejays such as DJ Kool Herc took the practice of toasting to New York City, where it evolved into rap music.

DJ Kool Herc

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DJ Kool Herc
DJ Kool Herc in New York City, May 1999
Background information
Birth name	Clive Campbell
Born	April 16, 1955 (age 57) Kingston, Jamaica
Origin	Kingston, Jamaica
Genres	Hip hop
Years active	1967–present

Clive Campbell (born April 16, 1955), also known as Kool Herc, DJ Kool Herc and Kool DJ Herc, is aJamaican-born American DJ who is credited with originating hip hop music in the early 1970s in The Bronx, New York City. His playing of hard funk records of the sort typified by James Brown was an alternative both to the violent gang culture of the Bronx and to the nascent popularity of disco in the 1970s. Campbell began to isolate the instrumental portion of the record, which emphasized the drum beat—the "break"—and switch from one break to another to yet another.

Using the same two turntable set-up of disco DJs, Campbell used two copies of the same record to elongate the break. This breakbeat DJing, using hard funk, rock, and records with Latin percussion, formed the basis of hip hop music. Campbell's announcements and exhortations to dancers helped lead to the syncopated, rhymed spoken accompaniment now known as rapping. He called his dancers "break-boys" and "break-girls", or simply b-boys and b-girls. Campbell's DJ style was quickly taken up by figures such as Afrika Bambaataa and Grandmaster Flash. Unlike them, he never made the move into commercially recorded hip hop in its earliest years.

[Edited 12/7/12 4:49am]

Nice info Dakutius.

Hip Hop (rapping) is directly a branch from Jamaican toasting...ask any oldheads from the NYC...no need to over think it.....

Spoken word (Gil Scot Heron) was already going on, but not in the mode of rap...

ALL black music has a link to its African roots,there's a reason why rap was formed from the percussion breaks of songs only...rhythm is ours and never forget it...

Speaking of Percussion, Africans made musical instruments other than percussion...tell that Redneck that banjo he's playing comes from African and watch his reaction,it's hilarious ...

Europeans only input to the beginnings of rap was that a lot of the early breaks were from rap songs ...buy those early break beat compilations and listen...also Kraftwerk (Planet Rock,Trans Euro Express) took Rap to another level and it's been in the club to this day....Dylan and Joe Tex being mentioned when you had Jocko Henderson and older bee-boppers are cringeworthy....sorry

Black music...not just Black American music (don't fall into that divisive crap) is a long river with many tributaries and it hip hop is just another one...

Hip-Hop was shaped by african tradition

nurtured and brought forth by black american inner city culture

but the cats who really deserved credit for crafting this music are those who shed the blood, the sweat and the tear living in those New York City burroughs during the mid 70s, the guys who conceptualized the entire get up, stemming from Jamaican influence

but they rarely receive credit even as these cats represent the forefathers of hip-hop

and when the realized they were sitting on a gold mine (not in relation to money or fame, but in terms of giving voice to those who were disenfranchised from recent decades of dysfunctional neglect by its own country), they issued a warning and declared if this music was ever commercialized, not only would it lose its essence, but that it would be destroyed altogether

they issued that warning as early as 1977, and some 35 years later, their words couldnt be more prophetic

THE VIBE HISTORY OF HIP-HOP is an excellent book giving chronological detail for how hip-hop came to be and where it has evolved to

I bought it over 10 years ago and cherish it

http://www.amazon.com/The...0609805037

[Edited 12/8/12 9:44am]