LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Wasn't he like the first East Coast rapper to go platinum/multi-platinum? From what I heard, most East Coast rappers only went gold. Run DMC was from the East but they were a group and I think LL didn't make platinum until Mr. Smith (but maybe I'm wrong...). And it was only when N.W.A. and MC Hammer that hip-hop started going multi-platinum...

Eric B & Rakim or Kane never went platinum?

Paid in Full didn't become platinum until 1995. Big Daddy Kane never went platinum. His first two records were gold but the rest of the albums didn't even sell over 500,000. BIG went platinum before Eric B & Rakim did.

[Edited 12/2/12 18:04pm]

Gunsnhalen said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

BIG is a great rap artist. Listen to his rhymes compared to others around that time (94 to early 97) not many compare to his flow, story telling, swag and just complete artistry for hip-hop.

Betwenn his debut in 94 and his death in 97, who hada bigger impact in the rap game? Only Wu-Tang, Pac, Dre and Snoop can be argued to have a bigger impact and if you group Dre, Snoop and Pac together as part of Deat Row, than it's just Wu-Tang, who is a 9 piece group ...

Hmmm.... i would say honestly.. at the time dre & snoop had a way bigger impact.

But as for TODAY Biggie for sure has a way bigger impact.

I won't deny Bigs is a good rap artist, but i would never call him a legend or put him in the tops list.

Yea I think Biggie was good at what he did but it wasnt groundbreaking.

mjscarousal said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Hmmm.... i would say honestly.. at the time dre & snoop had a way bigger impact.

But as for TODAY Biggie for sure has a way bigger impact.

I won't deny Bigs is a good rap artist, but i would never call him a legend or put him in the tops list.

Yea I think Biggie was good at what he did but it wasnt groundbreaking.

Don't make me spank you!

i was not a Biggie fan for all the reasons listed (misogyny, glorifying of the drug game etc.) but I can't front, dude had MAD flow. i hated that he was so nice with his given his garbage content but i think he gets and maybe "deserves" his legend status from a VERSATILITY standpoint. He could rap over any style and still shine. His collab with Bone Thugs left me just shaking my head.

Pac on the other hand lost me because he abandoned his true purpose and pedigree as a revolutionary "voice of the underground". the lure of platinum success (the Love of Money) caused him to abandon his tru self IMO. became a schizo on the mic but ppl FELT him because he was ALWAYS emotionally honest

LittleBLUECorvette said:

mjscarousal said:

Yea I think Biggie was good at what he did but it wasnt groundbreaking.

Don't make me spank you!

Not before I spank you

datdude said:

i was not a Biggie fan for all the reasons listed (misogyny, glorifying of the drug game etc.) but I can't front, dude had MAD flow. i hated that he was so nice with his given his garbage content but i think he gets and maybe "deserves" his legend status from a VERSATILITY standpoint. He could rap over any style and still shine. His collab with Bone Thugs left me just shaking my head.

Pac on the other hand lost me because he abandoned his true purpose and pedigree as a revolutionary "voice of the underground". the lure of platinum success (the Love of Money) caused him to abandon his tru self IMO. became a schizo on the mic but ppl FELT him because he was ALWAYS emotionally honest

I agree with your points on Biggie.

2pac technically I think had more impressive qualities and skills that went beyond music specifically. He was a amazing writer/poetic, he felt strongly about alot of issues/wanted to make social changes and he was the best rap performer I really dont care if someone disagrees with me on that. I have NEVER seen ANY rapper male or female perform as well and entertain as he does when he performs live. He was the one that made rappers have feelings and emotions because before him it was uncool or something that was never really seen by a rapper. People can connect with that because its real.

mjscarousal said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Don't make me spank you!

Not before I spank you

lyrical CONTENT was offensive or silly at best. but rhymes and rhythm were phenomenal. some of those internal rhymes that he put together were ridiculous.

controversy99 said:

lyrical CONTENT was offensive or silly at best. but rhymes and rhythm were phenomenal. some of those internal rhymes that he put together were ridiculous.

I liked how he came up with rhymes off his head...

controversy99 said:

Because he died at the hieght of that whole East Coast vs West Coast mess. Why the hell did he get a movie before Pac? I guess Biggie was easier to cast..lol.

Tupac indirectly made Biggie a 'legend' there I said it.

Terrib3Towel said:

Because he died at the hieght of that whole East Coast vs West Coast mess. Why the hell did he get a movie before Pac? I guess Biggie was easier to cast..lol.

Tupac indirectly made Biggie a 'legend' there I said it.

I can actually somewhat agree witht his...

2pac & Biggies ''beef' while mainly on 2pac side, is one of the biggest issues the 2 dealth with.

And 2pac dying after dissing Biggie & all that, and Biggie dying soon after...

Terrib3Towel said:

Because he died at the hieght of that whole East Coast vs West Coast mess. Why the hell did he get a movie before Pac? I guess Biggie was easier to cast..lol.

Tupac indirectly made Biggie a 'legend' there I said it.

With help from Suge and Puff...

Timmy84 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

Because he died at the hieght of that whole East Coast vs West Coast mess. Why the hell did he get a movie before Pac? I guess Biggie was easier to cast..lol.

Tupac indirectly made Biggie a 'legend' there I said it.

With help from Suge and Puff...

OH!

And i forgot... that I'll Be Missing You song!

I don't think Pussy i mean Puffy was exactly trying to get money off Bigs death... but that song just came out a few months after big died right? and it was un escapable.

And Sting..... he was already making millions off Every Breath.. but then it was sampled for a song that went number 1.

So he has copyright on a song he wrote that basically went to number 1 twice

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

With help from Suge and Puff...

OH!

And i forgot... that I'll Be Missing You song!

I don't think Pussy i mean Puffy was exactly trying to get money off Bigs death... but that song just came out a few months after big died right? and it was un escapable.

And Sting..... he was already making millions off Every Breath.. but then it was sampled for a song that went number 1.

So he has copyright on a song he wrote that basically went to number 1 twice

Yeah Sting got PAID man...lol and even more when Puffy remixed Roxanne with him lol IBMY definitely added to BIG's status as a legend after that... a status that was never earned in life. Death in the music industry is a funny thing. Ask the families of Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison and Aaliyah...

Timmy84 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

OH!

And i forgot... that I'll Be Missing You song!

I don't think Pussy i mean Puffy was exactly trying to get money off Bigs death... but that song just came out a few months after big died right? and it was un escapable.

And Sting..... he was already making millions off Every Breath.. but then it was sampled for a song that went number 1.

So he has copyright on a song he wrote that basically went to number 1 twice

Yeah Sting got PAID man...lol and even more when Puffy remixed Roxanne with him lol IBMY definitely added to BIG's status as a legend after that... a status that was never earned in life. Death in the music industry is a funny thing. Ask the families of Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison and Aaliyah...

I also must add.. they released singles he did after his death that went to number 1.

That probably helped to, not to mention a good half of No Way Out had raps by him as well.

Timmy84 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

OH!

And i forgot... that I'll Be Missing You song!

I don't think Pussy i mean Puffy was exactly trying to get money off Bigs death... but that song just came out a few months after big died right? and it was un escapable.

And Sting..... he was already making millions off Every Breath.. but then it was sampled for a song that went number 1.

So he has copyright on a song he wrote that basically went to number 1 twice

Yeah Sting got PAID man...lol and even more when Puffy remixed Roxanne with him lol IBMY definitely added to BIG's status as a legend after that... a status that was never earned in life. Death in the music industry is a funny thing. Ask the families of Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison and Aaliyah...

You ain't neva lied Timmy.

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah Sting got PAID man...lol and even more when Puffy remixed Roxanne with him lol IBMY definitely added to BIG's status as a legend after that... a status that was never earned in life. Death in the music industry is a funny thing. Ask the families of Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison and Aaliyah...

I also must add.. they released singles he did after his death that went to number 1.

That probably helped to, not to mention a good half of No Way Out had raps by him as well.

Yeah. BIG was all on the radio in '97. Hell most of the memorable raps on No Way Out were from BIG anyway. He was all on "It's All About the Benjamins" overshadowing everyone except probably Lil Kim or Kim least matching BIG).

Is this thread for real? So it's come to this. Rap is so damn boring people gotta tear down the legends?

This is what is so great about Biggie:

There. Now listen to these over and over until you get what most other people get.

Ready to Die > Life After Death imho

Another favorite BIG song:

"I start to get a funny feeling
Put the mask on in case his niggas start squealing
Scream his name out
Squeeze six knuckles shorter
Nigga turned around holding his daughter..."

Honestly, I can't decide between Ready to Die and Life After Death. LAD was so damn poignant due to his death around the release. But on top of that, its like a motherfucking rap opus with some of the most on point features ever to happen on tape. "Another" is a ballsy track, period. "Notorious Thugs" is perfect in every way.

Ready To Die, though, has a different kind of hunger and voice on it. It's not as paranoid as LAD is either. The beats are second to none and his rhymes are simply perfect - "Juicy" set the standard for storytellers, people. If it ain't for Biggie, Jay-Z wouldn't have a damn career. If it ain't for Biggie, where would Nas be? Sorry, they are extremely talented men but they had the way paved by Biggie's insane success.

Bad Boy INVENTED that R&B/rap blend style of which both Hov and Nas have both dipped into heavily, as well.

Like I said, death is a funny thing in the industry. I think he had potential to be a great if he wasn't snuffed out so early. It's like Aaliyah. People talk about how great she is now but she was just starting and then the plane accident happened. We're so quick to honor the younger talents than we are the ones who stay around and either continue to make good music or stay around and be relevant some other way. People always said "if you wanna be a legend, die early." No accident that BIG became one after he died.

Spinlight said:

Honestly, I can't decide between Ready to Die and Life After Death. LAD was so damn poignant due to his death around the release. But on top of that, its like a motherfucking rap opus with some of the most on point features ever to happen on tape. "Another" is a ballsy track, period. "Notorious Thugs" is perfect in every way.

Ready To Die, though, has a different kind of hunger and voice on it. It's not as paranoid as LAD is either. The beats are second to none and his rhymes are simply perfect - "Juicy" set the standard for storytellers, people. If it ain't for Biggie, Jay-Z wouldn't have a damn career. If it ain't for Biggie, where would Nas be? Sorry, they are extremely talented men but they had the way paved by Biggie's insane success.

Bad Boy INVENTED that R&B/rap blend style of which both Hov and Nas have both dipped into heavily, as well.

Jay-Z rode BIG's entire catalog his whole career. Nas seems confused to be either Pac or BIG... for a while everyone was trying to get a R&B/rap type song. You could say Uptown started it since BIG and Puff for a while worked with Uptown back in '92. Life After Death did popularize that craze though.

Let's not forget how Biggie simultaneously elevated and destroyed Craig Mack's career by KILLING it on his very first feature.

^ Hell everybody on that remix killed Craig's career. He barely had a line. Only other dude who had a rhyme shorter was Busta's boy. But yeah BIG made everyone forget him.

Found this:

http://thyblackman.com/2011/09/11/biggie-smalls-the-notorious-b-i-g-has-done-more-for-rap-than-you-think/

Brad Washington; The Notorious B.I.G has done more for rap than you think…

(ThyBlackMan.com) The Notorious B.I.G is often hailed as one of the best rappers and songwriters in the history of rap. While many will say “well he only has 2 albums, so you can’t crown him the best” well yes we can. He was a master flow, told stories better than any MC, and made clever punchlines that made you jaw drop. He was a rare MC, and while he is regarded for his laidback rhymes and story telling narratives, we must thank The Notorious B.I.G. (and Diddy) for mixing the genre with pop sounding, radio friendly songs and Gangsta rap, to create a mainstream sound that is widely used in Hip-Hop today. Now-a-days if a record isn’t marketable then it’s not getting any play. Thanks to Big, songs like “John” by Lil’ Wayne and “BMF” by Rick Ross don’t get turned away by radio DJ’s.

Back in the 1980’s to pre 1996, whatever a rapper was marketed as was what was goin to the radio. If you were pop, then you were pop. You rhymed in circles, like a Nas (Illmatic era), KRS-One or Rakim, then you rhymed in circles (and that’s in a good way, like showing your rapping talent instead of rapping materialistic things). If you popped guns and sold drugs, then that what was going on the air and sold in stores. Some rappers did get the acclaim, but it didn’t turn up in record sales. A lot of rap artists found themselves at the bottom of the Billboard Top 100 album chart. Not bad for back then, but it would have been nice to hang up a gold plaque.

Rapper Nas dropped critically praised Illmatic in 1994, a few months before Big released Ready to Die. Both featured classic records and both are considered legendary. But what separated Big from Nas were the radio friendly tracks. Not the “I can’t believe it made it to pop radio” music (see O.P.P.) But the Juicy, Big Poppa, and One More Chance’s, Those were the records that brought B.I.G. the national attention, and his album cuts like “Warning” “Gimmie the Loot” and Everyday Struggle” is what won the streets. The transaction of pop/gangsta rap was a first. And all though it isn’t quite the movement he started on his second album, it was the beginning of Puff marketing his rap star for both the streets and the radio, which didn’t happen before.

Nas nearly had the transition with his second album It was Written, but he was deemed a sell-out, partly because Illmatic had no radio playable singles necessarily. Nas would be dogged for selling out all the way until he released his back-to-my-roots album: Stillmatic.

I remember when 50 Cent dropped Get Rich or Die Trying in February 2003, to commercial and critical acclaim. He became hip hop’s biggest star since Eminem, a few years prior. He had all the tools to be a prominent gangsta rapper; Charisma, criminal and drug dealing past, and not to mention getting shot (at?) 9 times. He had a mix of hardcore records for the streets, and songs for the radio, Wanksta was for the streets, but it’s radio-sounding record was what got it to number 13 on the pop charts. 50 became perhaps everyone’s favorite gangsta since the days of 2Pac. I didn’t realize then, that it was Biggie who started it all and led the charge. Mixing hard and soft records has become a notable trend in hip hop for years now. It seems that we all forget the two men who are responsible for this trend that seems to dominate rap.

Puff Daddy (Diddy, whatever) knew his protégé, The Notorious B.I.G, wasn’t the most marketable rapper he had on his roster. But what he did have was the talent and stamina to produce classic recordings so that he had to be heard. For his next and final album, Puff wanted gangsta and pop to converge together even more than it did on Ready to Die. Create a new sound in hip hop. Sample heavy. Radio friendly beats with Big’s stories of women and street tales of drugs and guns laying on the tracks. Gone was the dark sound of Ready to Die that was the majority of the songs. In turn, many of Big’s best songs are considered from Life after Death. He even had two number one singles back to back in Hypnotized and Mo’ Money, Mo’ Problems. Each record on that joint could have gone to radio. Even “Ten Crack Commandments” My favorite cut off that album was “Kick in the Door” It simplified everything Diddy was trying to do. Sample heavy, catchy, deemed for the radio, and along the way Big put on some of his best performances on wax, and not once losing street cred because it still had street content. It’s amazing how that album sold ten million copies. Mainly because we noticed the new sound and change. Not because we wanted to pay respect to the dead rapper.

Because of this stylistic change in gangsta rap at the time, many record companies have followed suit in this, your favorite rappers at the time or now use this strategy.Fabolous, 50, Ja Rule, Plies, T.I., Wayne, Game, etc. It has become unacceptable to talk about those topics without it getting on the radio. Every time I hear T.I. fourth album King released in 2006, I can’t help but to think it was inspired by Life after Death specifically. It was his first 3 albums combined on steroids. It was street, lyrical and aggressive, and had the radio singles. The singles he released never had to have anyone question his credibility. “What You Know” and “Top Back” precisely was just the dope boy making it on the radio. The same thing with Big back in the 90’s. That is why we should also see The Notorious B.I.G. as a pioneer in paving the way for this certain sound in rap. Not just him being a master lyricist. It’s cool because we can actually give Diddy some credit for actually doing something with Biggie. Sampling the whole record doesn’t count. BUT, we can actually give credit to Puff and Big because they were the masterminds behind this tactic. Ready to Die and Life after Death. More legendary than the average rap fan will ever know.

what's so great about biggie?

the DRAMA ($) that Puffy started after his assassination

H.Y.P.E.

Timmy84 said:

I'm sick of niggas lyin'

I'm sick of bitches hawkin'

Matter of fact, I'm sick of talkin'...

One of my fav songs!