mjscarousal said:

Billie Jean didn't have a picture sleeve, it just came in a generic blue sleeve with the Epic flower logo. Startin Somethin' had a similar photo to the Beat It single posted with the tan leather jacket and blue jeans. Side 2 had an instrumental of it. These 2 covers are actually from a 9 singles set that contained red vinyl. They were not individually sold.

[Edited 12/1/12 10:16am]

MickyDolenz said:

mjscarousal said:

Billie Jean didn't have a picture sleeve, it just came in a generic blue sleeve with the Epic flower logo. Startin Somethin' had a similar photo to the Beat It single posted with the tan leather jacket and blue jeans. Side 2 had an instrumental of it. These 2 covers are actually from a 9 singles set that contained red vinyl. They were not individually sold.

This one?

[img:$uid]http://images.45cat.com/michael-jackson-billie-jean-epic-2.jpg[/img:$uid]

^^No, that's the actual record label. But this is the sleeve it came in:

MickyDolenz said:

^^No, that's the actual record label. But this is the sleeve it came in:

Ah I got you now.

"Baby Be Mine"----one of only two Thriller songs that wasn't released as a single

Here's the Startin' Somethin' cover (or at least the US one).

I've never really thought about it, but those single covers just scream "teeny pop". Was the singles marketplace dominated really strongly by what teenagers bought at the time? Grown-ups had the money for the albums instead?

The hell does the picture used for the "Beat It" single make me think of the song itself.

MickyDolenz said:

mjscarousal said:

Billie Jean didn't have a picture sleeve, it just came in a generic blue sleeve with the Epic flower logo. Startin Somethin' had a similar photo to the Beat It single posted with the tan leather jacket and blue jeans. Side 2 had an instrumental of it. These 2 covers are actually from a 9 singles set that contained red vinyl. They were not individually sold.

[Edited 12/1/12 10:16am]

thanks

novabrkr said:

I've never really thought about it, but those single covers just scream "teeny pop". Was the singles marketplace dominated really strongly by what teenagers bought at the time? Grown-ups had the money for the albums instead?

The hell does the picture used for the "Beat It" single make me think of the song itself.

Yeah. Well in the sense of Michael's musical direction anyway. It wasn't too adult that kids couldn't listen to it (like parents were way stricter with Rick James and Prince over Michael). Michael was Walt Disney and Prince/James were like Roger Corman. In 1983, when it came time to buy your child a modern day single 45, which one would you have picked up for your child, a song with a cover of a nearly naked androgynous black man or a cover with a teen idol-styled androgynous black man? I don't think the parents would've picked the former.

Crazy thing about Michael is Billie Jean was way more adult than people in 1983 realized. I don't doubt there were parents who bought Billie Jean for their 13-year-olds that had no idea this former teen idol was denying that he had a baby in the Reagan era. Then again, you wonder how the Supremes, for instance, got away with talking of having "bastard children" ("Love Child") in the LBJ era. Guess the beat was too powerful to be ignored?

the image of Michael from 82 to 85 was soooooo Marty McFly...

JoeTyler said:

the image of Michael from 82 to 85 was soooooo Marty McFly...

The original cover of WBSS, he reminds me of Marty especially wearing that jacket lol the '80s were really bipartisan. Michael was so conservative. I think that's how middle America was okay with buying his album. He wasn't a "threat to national society" like Prince was perceived at the time.

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

the image of Michael from 82 to 85 was soooooo Marty McFly...

The original cover of WBSS, he reminds me of Marty especially wearing that jacket lol the '80s were really bipartisan. Michael was so conservative. I think that's how middle America was okay with buying his album. He wasn't a "threat to national society" like Prince was perceived at the time.

I still admire Thriller for the quality of the songwriting, but Bad was the edgier album, even with the glossed-up production

In fact, while we were talking about the music, I forgot to mention that Michael was considered "safe" during that time. His image was so squeaky clean then it made him easily marketable. I would think that started changing once Prince's bad boy image became so popular (post Purple Rain) that the industry decided good boys were out and bad boys were in and this was probably around 1985 or 1986. That's why Michael slowly started changing his appearance and stage demeanor because he didn't wanna be perceived as puny though his offstage image was still Disney-ish at the time lol

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

The original cover of WBSS, he reminds me of Marty especially wearing that jacket lol the '80s were really bipartisan. Michael was so conservative. I think that's how middle America was okay with buying his album. He wasn't a "threat to national society" like Prince was perceived at the time.

I still admire Thriller for the quality of the songwriting, but Bad was the edgier album, even with the glossed-up production

It clearly was. There was still an edge (that I credit Michael with) with the Bad album. Quincy was the reason it sounded so glossy as fuck. That gloss started leaving by Dangerous though after Teddy entered the picture.

MickyDolenz said:

They look like schoolboys in Sunday School lol

Timmy84 said:

In fact, while we were talking about the music, I forgot to mention that Michael was considered "safe" during that time. His image was so squeaky clean then it made him easily marketable. I would think that started changing once Prince's bad boy image became so popular (post Purple Rain) that the industry decided good boys were out and bad boys were in and this was probably around 1985 or 1986. That's why Michael slowly started changing his appearance and stage demeanor because he didn't wanna be perceived as puny though his offstage image was still Disney-ish at the time lol

yeah

but I can detect some darkness in Thriller nonetheless

WBBSS is a dark song, PYT was easily his "Christine Sixteen" like anthem, Billie Jean is serious stuff, Beat It is about saving yourself from a knife in the stomach, the video of Thriller IS scary, etc,

of course, TGIM, HN and LIML were safe (and excellent) adult/contemporary ballads

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

The original cover of WBSS, he reminds me of Marty especially wearing that jacket lol the '80s were really bipartisan. Michael was so conservative. I think that's how middle America was okay with buying his album. He wasn't a "threat to national society" like Prince was perceived at the time.

I still admire Thriller for the quality of the songwriting, but Bad was the edgier album, even with the glossed-up production

Edgier and unlike Thriller we got to also see Michael the artist more in the forefront with the intensive amount of participation with songwriting and production. I exactly prefer BAD over Thriller.

Somehow I feel Michael himself was uncomfortable with his look during the Off The Wall / early-Thriller -era. He had already worn weirder, spage-age style stuff with The Jacksons. It just all seems so planned out in retrospect. Except that he might have enjoyed looking like a member of The Wings with Paul McCartney.

Ok I can definitely here the influence.

But Mike was still very creative in coming up with that bass line.

novabrkr said:

Somehow I feel Michael himself was uncomfortable with his look during the Off The Wall / early-Thriller -era. He had already worn weirder, spage-age style stuff with The Jacksons. It just all seems so planned out in retrospect. Except that he might have enjoyed looking like a member of The Wings with Paul McCartney.

I think that was the reasoning why he started wearing leather in his videos. The covers (some were published from England) were probably pictures Michael had shot in 1981 and 1982 (no one has given a date to the pictures where Michael is wearing that spiffy bow tie number that's on the Thriller and Human Nature 45 single LP sleeves) so he felt even at that point that he had to "juice it up", hence the tough leather/pink shirt ensemble in "Billie Jean", the red jacket with the weird shirt ensemble in "Beat It" and the leather outfit with zippers in "Thriller". And the glove outfit from Motown 25. For MJ, it gave him an edge...and a look. By the time he adapted the military outfits during the Victory tour (which he actually took from Marvin Gaye's last tour), he had gone far from his squeaky clean image displayed during that time period.

Terrib3Towel said:

Ok I can definitely here the influence.

But Mike was still very creative in coming up with that bass line.

Hall & Oates admited they didn't make it up either

MickyDolenz said:

Still got that album in the plastic! Nice collection!!!!

Timmy84 said:

MickyDolenz said:

They look like schoolboys in Sunday School lol

24 and 40 years old...
overgrown boys

Terrib3Towel said:

Ok I can definitely here the influence.

But Mike was still very creative in coming up with that bass line.

It's something musicians do all the time. It's called inspiration. Michael was as inspired with what he heard on the radio, similar to Marvin, Stevie or whatever. It's telling how the riff was originally composed on a keyboard and then translate it to bass. I'm sure the riff doesn't seem complicated but I can imagine players having a hard time to deal with the changes in the riff and then repeat it until the hook came in. Ndugu Chancler deserves credit for that thumping drum beat in the song. I heard Michael had wanted something dramatic to start the song off. The drums were quite menacing. He wanted a song people could be like "ah shit, I gotta dance to this!" Mike worked on that thing for a year before he got it where he want it.

aardvark15 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

Ok I can definitely here the influence.

But Mike was still very creative in coming up with that bass line.

Hall & Oates admited they didn't make it up either

H&O said they got their riff from I Can't Go for That from another song though they don't say from where. Riffs are always created and someone interpolates it and makes it better than they did. That was the case here. Michael just made it ten times better. Nothing's too original anyway. It's just someone else knew how to make that riff work. Once a riff is there, no one can top it. That's what happened with Billie Jean, no one attempted to match it except Caribbean Queen by Billy Ocean, that was the only one I can recall that tried the same approach.

What's interesting about the bass line on "Billie Jean" is that its first played with a bass guitar, but then it gets switched to the same line played on a synth (like heard on the demo - I think it's a Minimoog).