phunkdaddy said:

Terrib3Towel said:

You said it yourself, music is SUBJECTIVE. If I say I like Nicki Minaj more than I do Rufus, it's MY opinion. NOTHING you say will change that. (which I don't, I'm just making a point)

The problem here is that you guys don't respect others' opinions if it differs from your's.

That's actually the root of a lot of problems in the world today.

Not true. If i'm not mistaken you're one of the posters who criticized Indie Arie

in a thread a couple of months ago. Although i disagreed with you it was your

right to say it. A lot of people don't like artists the same. If Mariah Carey comes

out with a new song that is watered down craptastically with a flavor of the month

rapper it's gonna get criticized period although folks know it's her MO.

I find it ironic that people want to go on a withhunt and complain about folks who

have a disdain for most of today's music but you have people that complain that

all a lot of orgers here wanna talk about is classic r&b but yet when you look at

the majority of threads here it's about pop artists current and classic. Double

standard imo.

I recall that thread, I didin't say anything bad about Indie Arie. I just said she fell off after her first CD..unless I'm forgetting something.

Scorp said:

vainandy said:

I agree that it started it's decline 25 years ago. 27 to be exact.

You've sparked my interest though so go ahead and post your excerpt. From the looks of the other thread titles in this section of the org, at least it will be one thing that's interesting around here.

great point....

1985 marked the watershed mark for the music industry, and I honestly believe the recording of WE ARE THE WORLD by USA FOR AFRICA marked the industry's apex, the culmination

1986 marked the transition from the rule to the exception

and 1987 introduced a movment that would begin to bring forth music's decline

here's the excerpt from the book I'm having published

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those artists who shed the blood, the sweat, and the tear in creating the very music which has been exploited by the establishment within this framework were totally phased out from the landscape only after record labels under which this exceptional music was crafted sold those rights to major conglomerates for profit; a system of exclusion made possible because the majority of the artists associated with music’s golden era never owned their own song rights nor did they receive the royalties deserved. Artists possessing true music ability were replaced by those who carried the image necessary to project during the age of video

Thus image perspective supplanted talent perspective. Sampling ran amuck throughout the industry which has led to stagnant creativity across the board; reaching the point where the samples are being sampled. Creativity stifled because artists during this period were separated from interacting with culture but tabbed into its virtue to propel their careers. We can go down the line. Just about every artist during the associated with the Pop Ascension who achieved multi-platinum status throughout the decade featured sampling in their work.

These artists know the majority of the audience who supported their efforts wouldn’t realize the fact they were sampling and whose music they were sampling from.

The first artist who won the right to earn royalties for their music being sampled was Rick James after he sued MC Hammer for copyright infringement.

Sampling has led to the attitude of taking the road less travel, but what you give is what you receive, and if you take shortcuts to this process, you’re going to shortcut yourself in the long run.

Without receiving just due, real R&B expression (cultivated by the spirituals) has proven to sustain the very existence of the recording industry because its influence has been interpreted by those representing identifiable genres of music.

The contradictions present within the Pop Ascension caused the artists associated with it to draw back towards the golden era for inspiration for this was the period where culture flourished. They were forced to do so. The Ascension created a void that proved detrimental because the artists of the moment were not allowed to truly cultivate their talents. They had to manufacture hits rather than produce them. They didn’t have the resources to create their own music; they had to RECREATE music from the past.

The industry knew the golden era produced better music compared to that associated with the Pop Ascension, so it had to differentiate the current generation of artists from those who represented the past glory. Thus, the establishment within the industry designated the terms OLD SCHOOL for yesterday’s artists and NEW SCHOOL for the present day artists. This happened so the present day could establish an identity for themselves in contrast to their counterparts, even when the music of yesterday was being sampled to sustain the industry.

This proved counterproductive as the Ascension has created a generational divide in the process, creating a wedge between adults and our youth. There used to be a time where parents and children used to enjoy listening to the same music as one. That’s not the case anymore as this wedge started in the late 1980’s. The ascension created another layer of division between the sexes as songs became more antagonistic and cynical. Songs centered on love gave way to sexual exploitation.

When a culture is stripped from a people and their community, the generation of youth who follows a period of exploitation responds by creating a sub-culture to function within the very system that has excluded them. To create a sub-culture and make it stand out, the youth exhibit more aggressive behavior and ways of expression. They compensate by taking this action.

Within the realm of music, this need to “compensate” led to more aggressive lyrical content featured in our music, particularly hip-hop. Those who have been neglected are screaming out, crying for their voices to be heard. They are rebelling, but never given the proper context to understand who they need to be rebelling against and how to do so without reinforcing negative connotation that creates more damage rather than identifying the root of the problem.

Anger, when misdirected turns into perpetual cycles of detrimental behavior, fighting against itself, affecting the community at large. This is the course Hip-Hop has travelled, especially the brand the music industry has exploited commercially. The void left behind the Pop Ascension’s grasp has created hostility and the lyrical content has reflected that. The term “Keeping It Real” came to be for this reason.

for you see.......it's all an ILLUSION

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very good points. It was a little wordy for my Mississippi education but I got it.

And excellent point about when the term "Old School" came out. I had heard the term before but not used as a musical term until the era that you indicated. I also noticed within rap itself, new terms started coming about such as "Electro". When folks like Egyptian Lover, Twilight 22, Pretty Tony, Freestyle, Newcleus, etc. first came on the scene who were rappers but created a lot of their own music and rhytyms rather than sampling someone else's, there was no such term as "electro". It was just simply called "rap" or "hip hop". I never saw, read, or had even heard of the term "Electro" until the mid 1990s when the majority of rap became what I call "shit hop" which is nothing but a very slow to midtemp weak sounding beat with some talking over it and maybe a sample. But musicwise, nothing original was come up with on their own. I saw the term "electro" first being used during this era so that when confronted with the "Why can't you come up with original music like the rappers of the past" arguement, they can quickly dismiss them as "electro" like they shouldn't even be compared to them. What it is, is they didn't want to admit that they don't have the talent to come up with something of their own.

Good luck with the book by the way.

phunkdaddy said:

Terrib3Towel said:

You said it yourself, music is SUBJECTIVE. If I say I like Nicki Minaj more than I do Rufus, it's MY opinion. NOTHING you say will change that. (which I don't, I'm just making a point)

The problem here is that you guys don't respect others' opinions if it differs from your's.

That's actually the root of a lot of problems in the world today.

Not true. If i'm not mistaken you're one of the posters who criticized Indie Arie

in a thread a couple of months ago. Although i disagreed with you it was your

right to say it. A lot of people don't like artists the same. If Mariah Carey comes

out with a new song that is watered down craptastically with a flavor of the month

rapper it's gonna get criticized period although folks know it's her MO.

I find it ironic that people want to go on a withhunt and complain about folks who

have a disdain for most of today's music but you have people that complain that

all a lot of orgers here wanna talk about is classic r&b but yet when you look at

the majority of threads here it's about pop artists current and classic. Double

standard imo.

You sure got that right about damn near every thread on the first page being about either a new pop artist or an extremely popular old artist that everyone and their grandma has heard over and over on VH1 and pop radio for decades.

As for them compaining because people don't like new music, fuck 'em. As for them complaining that all people want to talk about is classic R&B, well hell, what do they expect from a fansite dedicated to an artist who is not only a classic R&B artist, but also is an artist who has spoken out about the current state of music, although his hypocritical ass doesn't always practice what he preaches. Complaining about that is like going to a 50 Cent website and starting a Prince thread and then getting upset when you get responses like....."Ewww, that's that faggot from the 1980s. Make a thread about a real nigga you punk ass bitch!"..... Hell, they know what kind of website they're coming to so if they want to compain that all people want to do is talk about classic R&B, they can take their ass to where people aren't talking about it.

.

.

.

[Edited 11/1/12 17:11pm]

vainandy said:

Scorp said:

great point....

1985 marked the watershed mark for the music industry, and I honestly believe the recording of WE ARE THE WORLD by USA FOR AFRICA marked the industry's apex, the culmination

1986 marked the transition from the rule to the exception

and 1987 introduced a movment that would begin to bring forth music's decline

here's the excerpt from the book I'm having published

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those artists who shed the blood, the sweat, and the tear in creating the very music which has been exploited by the establishment within this framework were totally phased out from the landscape only after record labels under which this exceptional music was crafted sold those rights to major conglomerates for profit; a system of exclusion made possible because the majority of the artists associated with music’s golden era never owned their own song rights nor did they receive the royalties deserved. Artists possessing true music ability were replaced by those who carried the image necessary to project during the age of video

Thus image perspective supplanted talent perspective. Sampling ran amuck throughout the industry which has led to stagnant creativity across the board; reaching the point where the samples are being sampled. Creativity stifled because artists during this period were separated from interacting with culture but tabbed into its virtue to propel their careers. We can go down the line. Just about every artist during the associated with the Pop Ascension who achieved multi-platinum status throughout the decade featured sampling in their work.

These artists know the majority of the audience who supported their efforts wouldn’t realize the fact they were sampling and whose music they were sampling from.

The first artist who won the right to earn royalties for their music being sampled was Rick James after he sued MC Hammer for copyright infringement.

Sampling has led to the attitude of taking the road less travel, but what you give is what you receive, and if you take shortcuts to this process, you’re going to shortcut yourself in the long run.

Without receiving just due, real R&B expression (cultivated by the spirituals) has proven to sustain the very existence of the recording industry because its influence has been interpreted by those representing identifiable genres of music.

The contradictions present within the Pop Ascension caused the artists associated with it to draw back towards the golden era for inspiration for this was the period where culture flourished. They were forced to do so. The Ascension created a void that proved detrimental because the artists of the moment were not allowed to truly cultivate their talents. They had to manufacture hits rather than produce them. They didn’t have the resources to create their own music; they had to RECREATE music from the past.

The industry knew the golden era produced better music compared to that associated with the Pop Ascension, so it had to differentiate the current generation of artists from those who represented the past glory. Thus, the establishment within the industry designated the terms OLD SCHOOL for yesterday’s artists and NEW SCHOOL for the present day artists. This happened so the present day could establish an identity for themselves in contrast to their counterparts, even when the music of yesterday was being sampled to sustain the industry.

This proved counterproductive as the Ascension has created a generational divide in the process, creating a wedge between adults and our youth. There used to be a time where parents and children used to enjoy listening to the same music as one. That’s not the case anymore as this wedge started in the late 1980’s. The ascension created another layer of division between the sexes as songs became more antagonistic and cynical. Songs centered on love gave way to sexual exploitation.

When a culture is stripped from a people and their community, the generation of youth who follows a period of exploitation responds by creating a sub-culture to function within the very system that has excluded them. To create a sub-culture and make it stand out, the youth exhibit more aggressive behavior and ways of expression. They compensate by taking this action.

Within the realm of music, this need to “compensate” led to more aggressive lyrical content featured in our music, particularly hip-hop. Those who have been neglected are screaming out, crying for their voices to be heard. They are rebelling, but never given the proper context to understand who they need to be rebelling against and how to do so without reinforcing negative connotation that creates more damage rather than identifying the root of the problem.

Anger, when misdirected turns into perpetual cycles of detrimental behavior, fighting against itself, affecting the community at large. This is the course Hip-Hop has travelled, especially the brand the music industry has exploited commercially. The void left behind the Pop Ascension’s grasp has created hostility and the lyrical content has reflected that. The term “Keeping It Real” came to be for this reason.

for you see.......it's all an ILLUSION

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very good points. It was a little wordy for my Mississippi education but I got it.

And excellent point about when the term "Old School" came out. I had heard the term before but not used as a musical term until the era that you indicated. I also noticed within rap itself, new terms started coming about such as "Electro". When folks like Egyptian Lover, Twilight 22, Pretty Tony, Freestyle, Newcleus, etc. first came on the scene who were rappers but created a lot of their own music and rhytyms rather than sampling someone else's, there was no such term as "electro". It was just simply called "rap" or "hip hop". I never saw, read, or had even heard of the term "Electro" until the mid 1990s when the majority of rap became what I call "shit hop" which is nothing but a very slow to midtemp weak sounding beat with some talking over it and maybe a sample. But musicwise, nothing original was come up with on their own. I saw the term "electro" first being used during this era so that when confronted with the "Why can't you come up with original music like the rappers of the past" arguement, they can quickly dismiss them as "electro" like they shouldn't even be compared to them. What it is, is they didn't want to admit that they don't have the talent to come up with something of their own.

Good luck with the book by the way.

llolll

excellent points

at least 2 generations have been robbed, because the true meaning of what this was supposed to be about had been stolen of its virtue

when we get right down to it, Hip-Hop has been shaped as a means to exert mind control

and allot of people in high places put this in motion

aw yes, this is very deep

[Edited 11/1/12 20:34pm]

Terrib3Towel said:

phunkdaddy said:

Not true. If i'm not mistaken you're one of the posters who criticized Indie Arie

in a thread a couple of months ago. Although i disagreed with you it was your

right to say it. A lot of people don't like artists the same. If Mariah Carey comes

out with a new song that is watered down craptastically with a flavor of the month

rapper it's gonna get criticized period although folks know it's her MO.

I find it ironic that people want to go on a withhunt and complain about folks who

have a disdain for most of today's music but you have people that complain that

all a lot of orgers here wanna talk about is classic r&b but yet when you look at

the majority of threads here it's about pop artists current and classic. Double

standard imo.

I recall that thread, I didin't say anything bad about Indie Arie. I just said she fell off after her first CD..unless I'm forgetting something.

I know there was a few that said they found her music boring which is fine. I'm just

saying i find it ironic how a few here may jump on someone for reacting differently

about a particular artist yet that same poster goes in an criticize another artist

the same.

phunkdaddy said:

Terrib3Towel said:

You said it yourself, music is SUBJECTIVE. If I say I like Nicki Minaj more than I do Rufus, it's MY opinion. NOTHING you say will change that. (which I don't, I'm just making a point)

The problem here is that you guys don't respect others' opinions if it differs from your's.

That's actually the root of a lot of problems in the world today.

Not true. If i'm not mistaken you're one of the posters who criticized Indie Arie

in a thread a couple of months ago. Although i disagreed with you it was your

right to say it. A lot of people don't like artists the same. If Mariah Carey comes

out with a new song that is watered down craptastically with a flavor of the month

rapper it's gonna get criticized period although folks know it's her MO.

I find it ironic that people want to go on a withhunt and complain about folks who

have a disdain for most of today's music but you have people that complain that

all a lot of orgers here wanna talk about is classic r&b but yet when you look at

the majority of threads here it's about pop artists current and classic. Double

standard imo.

BEST POST EVER MADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

phunkdaddy said:

Terrib3Towel said:

I recall that thread, I didin't say anything bad about Indie Arie. I just said she fell off after her first CD..unless I'm forgetting something.

I know there was a few that said they found her music boring which is fine. I'm just

saying i find it ironic how a few here may jump on someone for reacting differently

about a particular artist yet that same poster goes in an criticize another artist

the same.

You mean how people stan hard for people like Madonna and Janet, then turn around talk loads of shit about somebody like Britney Spears or Gaga?

99% of the people on this board do that, I've even been guilty of it. The hipocrosy is astounding here. It's so painfully obvious.