I'm feeling the southern soul I must say!

http://www.youtube.com/wa...X5J6zA-cGY

http://www.youtube.com/wa...sIoMcz07aI

http://www.youtube.com/wa...oi4mZqTGNo

http://www.youtube.com/wa...yh4G7ustyQ

http://www.youtube.com/wa...gnP3CaGl0c

http://www.youtube.com/wa...8DLM8g4ors

mjscarousal said:

duccichucka said:

This thread is preposterous. How in the world did the Black church

assist in the decline of R&B? How in the world is a musical art form

itself declining?

Y'all are straight trippin': music will NEVER decline. It cannot do

such a thing. TASTE is what y'all are talking about. And again,

if you look book at all the Billboard Chart 100 Hot New Songs

Played on Pop Radio List, you'll see that taste in pop music has

ALWAYS been questionable.

Stop the kneejerk reaction to what you hear on the radio, as if it's

indicative of ALL the R&B music that is being produced today.

Its pretty obvious we are talking about mainstream R&B declining and not the genre in itself

And it's obvious that it is not. Mainstream R&B has always sucked. Do you think the

70s, 80s, 90s, 50s, 60s, had better R&B radio music? How? What is the musical formula

that proves tastes in era A is better than era B but not as good as era C? Nobody here

can gimme a FACT that mainstream R&B music is on the decline: music don't work that

way. You cannot show how artist 1 from decade z is a better than artist 2 from decade x

unless you reduce it down to t.a.s.t.e.

What is happening today has ALWAYS happened! We get a large dose of bullshit with a

smattering of some cool shit. Y'all need to relax and lemme solve the problem for you

right now:

turn.off.your.mainstream.radio.if.it.sucks.so.bad.

Why are we crying over the mainstream anyways? Radio-cultural tastes and business

models have shifted since 'the good ol' days' (no such thing: my parents complain about

music in the 80s and 90s, how it sucked, how it wasn't as good as their shit - but I paid

them no mind because it was the shit I liked. Now the same is happening to your old

ass!).

You guys sound like a bunch of old fuddy duddy crybabies who don't know how to use

Google, Pandora, P2P networks and other things related to the internet to find new, ex-

citing, fresh, vibrant, substantial alternatives to the Facebook radio.

ISF said:

Hello all

In the commercial music we hear today, there is virtually no R&B. Most songs sung by a black person are considered R&B, it seems. If the same song is given to Miley Cyrus it is considered pop.

Since the 50s through till about 2004 or so we heard black artists releasing music that related to the music before. It had it roots in blues/R&b/gospel/soul etc. Rock & Roll to Motown to Minneapolis sound to hip hop to the funk of James Brown etc. They were all very different, but they had some of the same origins.

Now the ''R&B'' we hear is nothing but a singer, usually black, singing or rapping over a euro-dance/techno/house beat. This is saddening.

I know you do hear the odd R&B song on radio (Love On Top, Pretty Wings etc.) but few!

This is why I do not listen to radio or watch music TV anymore, Youtube got what I need

These days, even Usher doesn't want to be a r&b/soul OR hip-hop/r&b artist anymore, hence why he's currently singing on Europop/EDM tracks.

vainandy said:

It's been dead since the 1990s. They have made a little progress though. At least the trance "euro dance" sounds better than the shit hop they've been making for the last 20 years. It still sounds horrible though because it's a rhythmless "whitened down" version of house.

That europop/euro-dance sound in EDM (electronic dance music) is basically house without the bass guitar.

duccichucka said:

mjscarousal said:

Its pretty obvious we are talking about mainstream R&B declining and not the genre in itself

And it's obvious that it is not. Mainstream R&B has always sucked. Do you think the

70s, 80s, 90s, 50s, 60s, had better R&B radio music? How? What is the musical formula

that proves tastes in era A is better than era B but not as good as era C? Nobody here

can gimme a FACT that mainstream R&B music is on the decline: music don't work that

way. You cannot show how artist 1 from decade z is a better than artist 2 from decade x

unless you reduce it down to t.a.s.t.e.

What is happening today has ALWAYS happened! We get a large dose of bullshit with a

smattering of some cool shit. Y'all need to relax and lemme solve the problem for you

right now:

turn.off.your.mainstream.radio.if.it.sucks.so.bad.

Why are we crying over the mainstream anyways? Radio-cultural tastes and business

models have shifted since 'the good ol' days' (no such thing: my parents complain about

music in the 80s and 90s, how it sucked, how it wasn't as good as their shit - but I paid

them no mind because it was the shit I liked. Now the same is happening to your old

ass!).

You guys sound like a bunch of old fuddy duddy crybabies who don't know how to use

Google, Pandora, P2P networks and other things related to the internet to find new, ex-

citing, fresh, vibrant, substantial alternatives to the Facebook radio.

there was a LOT of shit during the 80s and 90s as well (specially during the 88-90 and 96-99 eras), nobody is sayin' otherwise, but at least there was some GREAT mainstream stuff during those decades

it doesn't take a genius to ACCEPT that mainstream 00's music WAS (and still is!!) a lot worse than the mainstream stuff of previous decades

duccichucka said:

mjscarousal said:

Its pretty obvious we are talking about mainstream R&B declining and not the genre in itself

And it's obvious that it is not. Mainstream R&B has always sucked. Do you think the

70s, 80s, 90s, 50s, 60s, had better R&B radio music? How? What is the musical formula

that proves tastes in era A is better than era B but not as good as era C? Nobody here

can gimme a FACT that mainstream R&B music is on the decline: music don't work that

way. You cannot show how artist 1 from decade z is a better than artist 2 from decade x

unless you reduce it down to t.a.s.t.e.

What is happening today has ALWAYS happened! We get a large dose of bullshit with a

smattering of some cool shit. Y'all need to relax and lemme solve the problem for you

right now:

turn.off.your.mainstream.radio.if.it.sucks.so.bad.

Why are we crying over the mainstream anyways? Radio-cultural tastes and business

models have shifted since 'the good ol' days' (no such thing: my parents complain about

music in the 80s and 90s, how it sucked, how it wasn't as good as their shit - but I paid

them no mind because it was the shit I liked. Now the same is happening to your old

ass!).

You guys sound like a bunch of old fuddy duddy crybabies who don't know how to use

Google, Pandora, P2P networks and other things related to the internet to find new, ex-

citing, fresh, vibrant, substantial alternatives to the Facebook radio.

The hell it has. Prince, Rick James, Roger and Zapp, Cameo, The Barkays, Con Funk Shun, Lakeside, etc., all that was mainstream R&B. It wasn't underground and you didn't have to "search" for it because it was all over the radio. And no, my mother who was a teenager in the 1960s wasn't complaining about it either because the music was made for her age group, not mine. I was too young to get into clubs.

ISF said:

Graycap23 said:

Interesting.

What would u call:

Mint Condition

Anthony Hamilton

Bilal

Frank McComb

Eric Roberson

Badu

Jill Scott

Maxwell

Raheem Devaughn...........2 name a few?

I remember hearing Pretty Wings on the radio. Other than that, I haven't heard a song from any of the others on radio in a few years, maybe the last I remember was ''Everybody'' by Anthony Hamilton. (I am in the UK)

As Grey has already said, FM radio is AND has been dead.

But you can listen to real r&b/soul on Pandora Radio. And you can customize the tracks you want to hear on your station.

ISF said:

Hello all

In the commercial music we hear today, there is virtually no R&B. Most songs sung by a black person are considered R&B, it seems. If the same song is given to Miley Cyrus it is considered pop.

Since the 50s through till about 2004 or so we heard black artists releasing music that related to the music before. It had it roots in blues/R&b/gospel/soul etc. Rock & Roll to Motown to Minneapolis sound to hip hop to the funk of James Brown etc. They were all very different, but they had some of the same origins.

Now the ''R&B'' we hear is nothing but a singer, usually black, singing or rapping over a euro-dance/techno/house beat. This is saddening.

I know you do hear the odd R&B song on radio (Love On Top, Pretty Wings etc.) but few!

This is why I do not listen to radio or watch music TV anymore, Youtube got what I need

Nobody does any homework 'round here so lemme do it:

I chose a random year and trust me - I could argue that half of the songs

listed here absolutely suck hirsute testicles.

#1 R&B Singles 1975

Kung Fu Fighting? Really, you declining of mainstream R&B music apologists?

So lay back, guys! R&B mainstream music is not declining. Taste has changed,

that's all!

duccichucka said:

ISF said:

Hello all

In the commercial music we hear today, there is virtually no R&B. Most songs sung by a black person are considered R&B, it seems. If the same song is given to Miley Cyrus it is considered pop.

Since the 50s through till about 2004 or so we heard black artists releasing music that related to the music before. It had it roots in blues/R&b/gospel/soul etc. Rock & Roll to Motown to Minneapolis sound to hip hop to the funk of James Brown etc. They were all very different, but they had some of the same origins.

Now the ''R&B'' we hear is nothing but a singer, usually black, singing or rapping over a euro-dance/techno/house beat. This is saddening.

I know you do hear the odd R&B song on radio (Love On Top, Pretty Wings etc.) but few!

This is why I do not listen to radio or watch music TV anymore, Youtube got what I need

Nobody does any homework 'round here so lemme do it:

I chose a random year and trust me - I could argue that half of the songs

listed here absolutely suck hirsute testicles.

#1 R&B Singles 1975

Kung Fu Fighting? Really, you declining of mainstream R&B music apologists?

So lay back, guys! R&B mainstream music is not declining. Taste has changed,

that's all!

Hell, damn near every song on that list is great and so is "Kung Fu Fighting".

vainandy said:

duccichucka said:

And it's obvious that it is not. Mainstream R&B has always sucked. Do you think the

70s, 80s, 90s, 50s, 60s, had better R&B radio music? How? What is the musical formula

that proves tastes in era A is better than era B but not as good as era C? Nobody here

can gimme a FACT that mainstream R&B music is on the decline: music don't work that

way. You cannot show how artist 1 from decade z is a better than artist 2 from decade x

unless you reduce it down to t.a.s.t.e.

What is happening today has ALWAYS happened! We get a large dose of bullshit with a

smattering of some cool shit. Y'all need to relax and lemme solve the problem for you

right now:

turn.off.your.mainstream.radio.if.it.sucks.so.bad.

Why are we crying over the mainstream anyways? Radio-cultural tastes and business

models have shifted since 'the good ol' days' (no such thing: my parents complain about

music in the 80s and 90s, how it sucked, how it wasn't as good as their shit - but I paid

them no mind because it was the shit I liked. Now the same is happening to your old

ass!).

You guys sound like a bunch of old fuddy duddy crybabies who don't know how to use

Google, Pandora, P2P networks and other things related to the internet to find new, ex-

citing, fresh, vibrant, substantial alternatives to the Facebook radio.

The hell it has. Prince, Rick James, Roger and Zapp, Cameo, The Barkays, Con Funk Shun, Lakeside, etc., all that was mainstream R&B. It wasn't underground and you didn't have to "search" for it because it was all over the radio. And no, my mother who was a teenager in the 1960s wasn't complaining about it either because the music was made for her age group, not mine. I was too young to get into clubs.

I disagree Andy. I think you listed stalwarts and exceptions to the rule.

It's not like those artists were the only ones to chart during the 70s.

The only reason why you and others, are railing against music today is because

the music you grew up listening to is not en vogue anymore. Ask a tweener/

teen today who is hot and the last thing they wanna hear is some Roger & Zapp.

That's the fact of the matter - shit we like is not charting. If shit we liked was

charting, we'd all be cool. And we're all in the same camp because we're here

at the ORG i.e. Prince is 'Da Man. Prince fans, inarguably, have THE best taste

in music. But the shit that we like is simply not hittin' anymore, neither is Prince.

When Van Hunt goes platinum, then we'll rejoice that mainstream R&B is finally

on point. When Mint Condition goes 2x platinum, we'll breathe a sigh of relief.

Guess what?

Shit ain't happenin', capt'n. Radio is for virgin ears, not us. Prince took our aural

cherries loooooooooooooong time ago.

Stop yer bitchin'.

^ BULLSHIT

I think new wave, disco, metal and electro were the genres that changed it all (roughly 77-83)

before that, everyone loved/respected old-school R&R, R&B, soul, folk, hard-rock, blues, etc, at least since the era of the Beatles...

but then electronic, hard-hitting and dance-oriented music appeared and the scene (and the opinions) were divided forever

I know there are old (very OLD, no offense) geezers that cannot stand post-75 music (to each his own ), but some people NEED to understand already (damn) that the fans (myself included) of 77-82 music CANNOT accept mainstream 00's shit because it's just a DULL/WATERED DOWN version of the GREAT/REVOLUTIONARY stuff that we ALREADY had during the late-70s, 80s and early-90s

so my conclusion is: comparing "50s/60s folks bitching about late-70s/80s music" to "80s/90s folks bitching about 00's music" is POINTLESS AND WRONG;

the hell "it has always happened": IT HASN'T= different players/different GENRES-STYLES. period, a whole different game (perhaps with similar rules) but DIFFERENT nonetheless

DAMMIT

[Edited 10/31/12 8:10am]

MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:

This site, okayplayer and numerous others prove that there's really no excuse not to hunt for "R&B," and those who refuse to do so have no room to complain.

People always say go to such and such a site. But what about the people who don't have computers, internet, etc. and only have the radio (and maybe TV) to listen to. There used to be TV shows like American Bandstand, Soul Train, Shindig, Hee Haw, and others that showcased music. Even if you just listen to the oldies/classic rock stations, they only play certain songs over and over (ie. Layla, Stairway To Heaven, My Girl, Don't Stop Believing).

THAT^ is not a good excuse anymore. There are affordable smartphones that can be used to download AND save music.

As for owners of cheap laptops and/or tablets, they can go to McDonald's, Starbucks, and every other food chain location that has wi-fi. Even some public libraries have wi-fi.

duccichucka said:

vainandy said:

The hell it has. Prince, Rick James, Roger and Zapp, Cameo, The Barkays, Con Funk Shun, Lakeside, etc., all that was mainstream R&B. It wasn't underground and you didn't have to "search" for it because it was all over the radio. And no, my mother who was a teenager in the 1960s wasn't complaining about it either because the music was made for her age group, not mine. I was too young to get into clubs.

I disagree Andy. I think you listed stalwarts and exceptions to the rule.

It's not like those artists were the only ones to chart during the 70s.

The only reason why you and others, are railing against music today is because

the music you grew up listening to is not en vogue anymore. Ask a tweener/

teen today who is hot and the last thing they wanna hear is some Roger & Zapp.

That's the fact of the matter - shit we like is not charting. If shit we liked was

charting, we'd all be cool. And we're all in the same camp because we're here

at the ORG i.e. Prince is 'Da Man. Prince fans, inarguably, have THE best taste

in music. But the shit that we like is simply not hittin' anymore, neither is Prince.

When Van Hunt goes platinum, then we'll rejoice that mainstream R&B is finally

on point. When Mint Condition goes 2x platinum, we'll breathe a sigh of relief.

Guess what?

Shit ain't happenin', capt'n. Radio is for virgin ears, not us. Prince took our aural

cherries loooooooooooooong time ago.

Stop yer bitchin'.

Of course the last thing they're going to want to hear is Roger and Zapp because they've been raised on bullshit their entire lives. Mainstream R&B has been horrible for that long. And it's not a matter of age or getting older either because I first started complaining about the decline of music the summer of 1985 when I was only 17 and fresh out of high school. And in the 2000s when I was only in my early 20s, I said it was completely dead unless you went to the underground and listened to some house music or something. Funk or anything rhythmic on radio was completely extinct from radio by then and I was only in my early 20s.

It wouldn't have been so bad if I had been my mother's age and got to live through the various style changes as an adult from Motown, to disco, to funk. But by the time I was adult, the fun ended before I even got a chance to get started. If it weren't for underground house in the early 1990s, I would have had no club life whatsoever.

Timmy84 said:

namepeace said:

Fair points, but at this point, the majority of the country is wired and connected via cell phone at a minimum.

10 years ago, I'd have never written that post for the reasons you laid out..

Yeah it was a different world ten years ago lol

10 years ago, it was only desktops and laptops. Now it's tablets & smartphones are "the new laptops", while desktops are facing potential extinction.

JoeTyler said:

ANY old genre has evolved into something almost unrecognizable and, frankly, worse than the original thing:

R&B -> modern R&B rhythmless bullshit

Rap -> shit-hop

Funk -> electronic modern R&B/dance hybrid bullshit

Metal -> nu-metal

Punk -> watered down FM bands

Rock&Roll -> repetitive/down-to-death Hard-Rock which DOESN'T roll

Dance/Pop -> FM shit-dance

Electronic Music -> it has become the cheap bitch of shit-dance/shit-hop

Country -> bland FM shit with strong ties to American Idol and similar shit

you name it

perhaps only Soul and Blues remain fresh yet pure at the same time, and there have been some interesting modern/rock-folk hybrids recently (circa 2006-...)

There, THAT'S^ more specific.

TonyVanDam said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah it was a different world ten years ago lol

10 years ago, it was only desktops and laptops. Now it's tablets & smartphones are "the new laptops", while desktops are facing potential extinction.

I don't see desktops leaving any time soon because you need a full size computer with a full size keyborad at work. You can't type a damn thing on those tiny gadgets because the keys are too small.

I don't know what's wrong with these crazy ass kids these days wanting everything smaller. I guess they'll be wanting smaller dicks next.

.

.

.

[Edited 10/31/12 8:28am]

vainandy said:

TonyVanDam said:

10 years ago, it was only desktops and laptops. Now it's tablets & smartphones are "the new laptops", while desktops are facing potential extinction.

I don't see desktops leaving any time soon because you need a full size computer with a full size keyborad at work. You can't type a damn thing on those tiny gadgets because the keys are too small.

I don't know what's wrong with these crazy ass kids these days wanting everything smaller. I guess they'll be wanting smaller dicks next.

.

.

.

[Edited 10/31/12 8:28am]

The offices will still have desktops. But the business boards meetings sure as hell will not! Those neo-conservative brats are using tablets such as the iPads.

duccichucka said:

mjscarousal said:

Its pretty obvious we are talking about mainstream R&B declining and not the genre in itself

And it's obvious that it is not. Mainstream R&B has always sucked. Do you think the

70s, 80s, 90s, 50s, 60s, had better R&B radio music? How? What is the musical formula

that proves tastes in era A is better than era B but not as good as era C? Nobody here

can gimme a FACT that mainstream R&B music is on the decline: music don't work that

way. You cannot show how artist 1 from decade z is a better than artist 2 from decade x

unless you reduce it down to t.a.s.t.e.

What is happening today has ALWAYS happened! We get a large dose of bullshit with a

smattering of some cool shit. Y'all need to relax and lemme solve the problem for you

right now:

turn.off.your.mainstream.radio.if.it.sucks.so.bad.

Why are we crying over the mainstream anyways? Radio-cultural tastes and business

models have shifted since 'the good ol' days' (no such thing: my parents complain about

music in the 80s and 90s, how it sucked, how it wasn't as good as their shit - but I paid

them no mind because it was the shit I liked. Now the same is happening to your old

ass!).

You guys sound like a bunch of old fuddy duddy crybabies who don't know how to use

Google, Pandora, P2P networks and other things related to the internet to find new, ex-

citing, fresh, vibrant, substantial alternatives to the Facebook radio.

Technically "mainstream R&B" is actually pop performed by black people.

JoeTyler said:

^ BULLSHIT

I think new wave, disco, metal and electro were the genres that changed it all (roughly 77-83)

before that, everyone loved/respected old-school R&R, R&B, soul, folk, hard-rock, blues, etc, at least since the era of the Beatles...

but then electronic, hard-hitting and dance-oriented music appeared and the scene (and the opinions) were divided forever

I know there are old (very OLD, no offense) geezers that cannot stand post-75 music (to each his own ), but some people NEED to understand already (damn) that the fans (myself included) of 77-82 music CANNOT accept mainstream 00's shit because it's just a DULL/WATERED DOWN version of the GREAT/REVOLUTIONARY stuff that we ALREADY had during the late-70s, 80s and early-90s

so my conclusion is: comparing "50s/60s folks bitching about late-70s/80s music" to "80s/90s folks bitching about 00's music" is POINTLESS AND WRONG;

the hell "it has always happened": IT HASN'T= different players/different GENRES-STYLES. period, a whole different game (perhaps with similar rules) but DIFFERENT nonetheless

DAMMIT

[Edited 10/31/12 8:10am]

The world has changed too much for people to still be arguing about if it declined or not lol

TonyVanDam said:

THAT^ is not a good excuse anymore. There are affordable smartphones that can be used to download AND save music.

You're one of those people who assume that everyone has money to throw away on cell phones and internet service and think everyone knows how to use these things or even wants one. My mother doesn't even know how to use a cassette player other than the one in her car where you just stick the tape in and it starts playing automatically. I've never owned a cell phone and don't know how to use one. I just use a pay phone if I need to use one outside of the house. I don't download and to me, if it's not on a record, tape, or a CD, then I don't bother with it. I have a stereo with a receiver, cassette deck, turntable, CD, equalizer, and real speakers and not tiny computer speakers. I still buy records and own 8-tracks. I don't get the point of putting songs on a computer or one of those ipod things, but whatever floats your boat.

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

^ BULLSHIT

I think new wave, disco, metal and electro were the genres that changed it all (roughly 77-83)

before that, everyone loved/respected old-school R&R, R&B, soul, folk, hard-rock, blues, etc, at least since the era of the Beatles...

but then electronic, hard-hitting and dance-oriented music appeared and the scene (and the opinions) were divided forever

I know there are old (very OLD, no offense) geezers that cannot stand post-75 music (to each his own ), but some people NEED to understand already (damn) that the fans (myself included) of 77-82 music CANNOT accept mainstream 00's shit because it's just a DULL/WATERED DOWN version of the GREAT/REVOLUTIONARY stuff that we ALREADY had during the late-70s, 80s and early-90s

so my conclusion is: comparing "50s/60s folks bitching about late-70s/80s music" to "80s/90s folks bitching about 00's music" is POINTLESS AND WRONG;

the hell "it has always happened": IT HASN'T= different players/different GENRES-STYLES. period, a whole different game (perhaps with similar rules) but DIFFERENT nonetheless

DAMMIT

[Edited 10/31/12 8:10am]

The world has changed too much for people to still be arguing about if it declined or not lol

we'll that's true

but I stick to my guns:

50s/60s/early-70s folks bitched about completely DIFFERENT/RADICAL/ALIEN/SCARY late-70s/early-80s new music

late-70s/80s/ealy-90s folks bitch about a DUMB/WATERED DOWN 00s version of the music they liked (like!)

[Edited 10/31/12 9:28am]

duccichucka said:

And it's obvious that it is not. Mainstream R&B has always sucked.

Thats BULLSHIT but this is not surprising being this is coming from someone who thinks the only two musical geniuses are Mozart and Beethoven

Do you think the

70s, 80s, 90s, 50s, 60s, had better R&B radio music?

Yes, most definitly even in the 90s it was better than now

How?

Because the artists exactly could sing for one

And the music was just overall better in quality... it wasnt as generic and elementary as these songs are now. There reallly are no R&B songs on the radio for you to even make a comparision from the past up to now

What is the musical formula

No formula but it was not pop generic crap... it was Rhythm and Blues

that proves tastes in era A is better than era B but not as good as era C? Nobody here

Nobody didnt necessarily say that it was better in the past (although it was...... since you asked the question) most people are just arguing that the genre doesnt seem visible on the radio anymore, and that doesnt mean people are arguing which era is best over the other.

can gimme a FACT that mainstream R&B music is on the decline: music don't work that

way. You cannot show how artist 1 from decade z is a better than artist 2 from decade x

unless you reduce it down to t.a.s.t.e.

I think your reading a little more into the arguement than what is there. All people simply said was the genre doesnt seem visible on the mainstream radio and it seems R&B is just categorize as black music meaning black artists who make pop music instead of a genre itself. Just because an artist is black doesnt mean they make R&B.

What is happening today has ALWAYS happened!

Not true in a million years

Please explain to me how Marvin Gaye, Earth Wind and Fire, Stevie Wonder, Jodeci, Boys II Men is not R&B? Because all those artists were very popular on the charts and on mainstream radio during their prime.

We get a large dose of bullshit with a

smattering of some cool shit. Y'all need to relax and lemme solve the problem for you

right now:

turn.off.your.mainstream.radio.if.it.sucks.so

.bad.

Just because people want to discuss it doesnt mean people listen to the radio. Its just regular music discussion discussing the shift of mainstream music. This is normal discussion on a MUSIC FORUM. Now if YOU DONT CARE to discuss why not ignore the thread all together.... problem solved.

Why are we crying over the mainstream anyways?

Whose crying, its just a DISCUSSION

Radio-cultural tastes and businessmodels have shifted since 'the good ol' days' (no such thing: my parents complain about

music in the 80s and 90s, how it sucked, how it wasn't as good as their shit - but I paid

them no mind because it was the shit I liked. Now the same is happening to your old

ass!).

Most people that go to this forum that formulate these opinion are young and regardless someones age really doesnt mean anything. My grandmother is 82 and she loves Michael Jackson so please save that bullshit.

You guys sound like a bunch of old fuddy duddy crybabies who don't know how to use

Google, Pandora, P2P networks and other things related to the internet to find new, ex-

citing, fresh, vibrant, substantial alternatives to the Facebook radio.

If you exactly bothered to read posts that I and others have made INSTEAD of just reading the title and automatically formulating what this thread is about, we already stated that people should go out and search for there music but I still dont see the problem in discussing how mainstream music has change, that doesnt mean people are complaining... this is a MUSIC FORUM, why shouldnt people talk about how mainstream music has changed You posters always expect peaches and cream threads and never want to have interesting thought provoking discussion just the same old tired bullshit.

Yea it would be easy to just say go to a record store but this thread is more than that and people are not complaining in here

mjscarousal said:

duccichucka said:

And it's obvious that it is not. Mainstream R&B has always sucked.

Thats BULLSHIT but this is not surprising being this is coming from someone who thinks the only two musical geniuses are Mozart and Beethoven

Most people that go to this forum that formulate these opinion are young and regardless someones age really doesnt mean anything. My grandmother is 82 and she loves Michael Jackson so please save that bullshit.

You guys sound like a bunch of old fuddy duddy crybabies who don't know how to use

Google, Pandora, P2P networks and other things related to the internet to find new, ex-

citing, fresh, vibrant, substantial alternatives to the Facebook radio.

If you exactly bothered to read posts that I and others have made INSTEAD of just reading the title and automatically formulating what this thread is about, we already stated that people should go out and search for there music but I still dont see the problem in discussing how mainstream music has change, that doesnt mean people are complaining... this is a MUSIC FORUM, why shouldnt people talk about how mainstream music has changed You posters always expect peaches and cream threads and never want to have interesting thought provoking discussion just the same old tired bullshit.

Yea it would be easy to just say go to a record store but this thread is more than that and people are not complaining in here

Mozart and Beethoven are not the only two geniuses of music and I never said

that they were.

And the music was just overall better in quality... it wasnt as generic and elementary as these songs are now. There reallly are no R&B songs on the radio for you to even make a comparision from the past up to now

What?!

Put your money where your mouth is, mjcarousal:

I'm a musician; classically trained and versed in jazz and oh would I LOVE to see you

explain how music of yesterday is better than music of today.

In fact, that challenge goes out to all of youse: you say music of yesterday was better.

HOW? Go back, study music theory, assess all the songs of the radio during the 40s -

up until now and break down why they are better than the songs of today.

You can't. Because:

1. You'd have to listen to every single piece of music that was ever released on the radio

and give an informed account of its musical merits (musical merits...another thing that has

no science behind it - it is simply a matter of taste and convention).

2. You'd have to listen to ever single piece of music that is released today on the radio

and give an informed account of its musical merits.

Why don't y'all just say what you really mean to say and that is:

"I prefer the music I grew up with. I do not like the music on the radio today because it

doesn't sound as good, to me, as the music I prefer to hear. And no, I can't accurately

delineate how and why the music I grew up with is better than music today but I'm pretty

sure it has nothing to do with the music itself as it does with ME."

Then, I'd say:

"Hmm. Sounds reasonable. I understand that. I don't understand how you can say

"Every Little Step I Take" by Bobby Brown is better than Bieber's "If I Was Your Boy-

Friend" because they both utilize pretty much the same chordal arrangement, instru-

mentation, R&B pop stylings and are sung by talented male tenors, for example."

You cannot qualify "BEST" or "BETTER" other than using subjectivity, not science. It is

not a fact that Stevie Wonder is better than Justin Bieber. It is not a fact that Mozart is

better than Justin Bieber. It is a matter of taste, a matter of the utterer's knowledge and

a matter of SUBJECTIVITY.

I don't know how many times I gotta tell y'all this. Stop this "Music of year X is better than

music of year Y" - you cannot prove it! The music is not declining. Music cannot decline.

What you guys are really saying is that the quality of TASTE is down OR that you simply

prefer one era of music over another. That's it! Saying that R&B pop/mainstream music

is on the decline is like saying:

"Hey look everyone! The key of F major is on the decline! Yeah, that B flat ain't what it

used to be!"

I hope you see what I'm getting at here....

I said this in the past: musical supremacy is a disease.

Timmy84 said:

I said this in the past: musical supremacy is a disease.

I'll have a agree (2 some degree)

Timmy84 said:

duccichucka said:

And it's obvious that it is not. Mainstream R&B has always sucked. Do you think the

70s, 80s, 90s, 50s, 60s, had better R&B radio music? How? What is the musical formula

that proves tastes in era A is better than era B but not as good as era C? Nobody here

can gimme a FACT that mainstream R&B music is on the decline: music don't work that

way. You cannot show how artist 1 from decade z is a better than artist 2 from decade x

unless you reduce it down to t.a.s.t.e.

What is happening today has ALWAYS happened! We get a large dose of bullshit with a

smattering of some cool shit. Y'all need to relax and lemme solve the problem for you

right now:

turn.off.your.mainstream.radio.if.it.sucks.so.bad.

Why are we crying over the mainstream anyways? Radio-cultural tastes and business

models have shifted since 'the good ol' days' (no such thing: my parents complain about

music in the 80s and 90s, how it sucked, how it wasn't as good as their shit - but I paid

them no mind because it was the shit I liked. Now the same is happening to your old

ass!).

You guys sound like a bunch of old fuddy duddy crybabies who don't know how to use

Google, Pandora, P2P networks and other things related to the internet to find new, ex-

citing, fresh, vibrant, substantial alternatives to the Facebook radio.

Technically "mainstream R&B" is actually pop performed by black people.

Yeah, it is now but it wasn't always. They didn't play the jams on pop radio. Only the watered down stuff.

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

The world has changed too much for people to still be arguing about if it declined or not lol

we'll that's true

but I stick to my guns:

50s/60s/early-70s folks bitched about completely DIFFERENT/RADICAL/ALIEN/SCARY late-70s/early-80s new music

late-70s/80s/ealy-90s folks bitch about a DUMB/WATERED DOWN 00s version of the music they liked (like!)

[Edited 10/31/12 9:28am]

Oh, my favorite is the "people bitched about rock and roll in the 1950s" arguement as if it's the same thing as folks bitching today. They will do anything in their power to not accept the fact that today's music actually IS bullshit. They conveniently leave out the fact that the people bitched back then for racist reasons and were saying "that black rhythmic jungle music was the work of the devil and will cause corruption". Hell, I started bitching when it stopped being that "black rhythmic jungle music". And if it's the work of the devil, then corrupt me honey! The nastier the better! Ain't nobody never heard Andy bitch about profanity...ever.

.

.

.

[Edited 10/31/12 11:53am]

duccichucka said:

Put your money where your mouth is, mjcarousal:

Why are you making this a debate? Just because people are discussing the obvious non visiblity of R&B on mainstream radio doesnt mean people are complaining. People were just discussing it and even pointed out some points you made in your last post.

I'm a musician; classically trained and versed in jazz and oh would I LOVE to see you explain how music of yesterday is better than music of today.

You do realize this entire statement contradicts your whole arguement.

What does the fact that you are a musician have to do with this discussion? So are you saying that since you are a musician that makes your opinion more credible? That doesnt validate anything or makes your opinion more superior to anybody else on this forum whether they play a instrument or not.

In fact, that challenge goes out to all of youse: you say music of yesterday was better.

HOW? Go back, study music theory, assess all the songs of the radio during the 40s -

up until now and break down why they are better than the songs of today.

I think your over analyzing the point people were trying to make here. They were not arguing which era of music was better. Were just simply pointing out that R&B is not a visible genre in mainstream music anymore... Why are you trying to make more of of the discussion than what is there?

You can't. Because:

1. You'd have to listen to every single piece of music that was ever released on the radio

and give an informed account of its musical merits (musical merits...another thing that has

no science behind it - it is simply a matter of taste and convention).

2. You'd have to listen to ever single piece of music that is released today on the radio

and give an informed account of its musical merits.

Why don't y'all just say what you really mean to say and that is:

"I prefer the music I grew up with. I do not like the music on the radio today because it

doesn't sound as good, to me, as the music I prefer to hear. And no, I can't accurately

delineate how and why the music I grew up with is better than music today but I'm pretty

sure it has nothing to do with the music itself as it does with ME."

Then, I'd say:

"Hmm. Sounds reasonable. I understand that. I don't understand how you can say

"Every Little Step I Take" by Bobby Brown is better than Bieber's "If I Was Your Boy-

Friend" because they both utilize pretty much the same chordal arrangement, instru-

mentation, R&B pop stylings and are sung by talented male tenors, for example."

You cannot qualify "BEST" or "BETTER" other than using subjectivity, not science. It is

not a fact that Stevie Wonder is better than Justin Bieber. It is not a fact that Mozart is

better than Justin Bieber. It is a matter of taste, a matter of the utterer's knowledge and

a matter of SUBJECTIVITY.

Like I said... people were just insisting that R&B is not visible in the mainstream music realm like it was. You read alot more into some peoples opinion than what was there.

I don't know how many times I gotta tell y'all this. Stop this "Music of year X is better than

music of year Y" - you cannot prove it! The music is not declining. Music cannot decline.

What you guys are really saying is that the quality of TASTE is down OR that you simply

prefer one era of music over another. That's it! Saying that R&B pop/mainstream music

is on the decline is like saying:

"Hey look everyone! The key of F major is on the decline! Yeah, that B flat ain't what it

used to be!"

I hope you see what I'm getting at here....

Firstly this is a JUST a discussion so please calm down over there and objectively there are not any R&B singers that make R&B songs on mainstream radio, it is not a visible genre anymore. Today they catagorize R&B as pop stars that are black whether they make r&b or not Of course R&B still exists and even plays on R&B stations but it is not a genre played on mainstream stations like it use to that was the overall point of the discussion.

duccichucka said:

Mozart and Beethoven are not the only two geniuses of music and I never said

that they were.

I was being sarcastic but you do mention Mozart alot in musical geniuses discussions as if nobody else beyond that era is a musical genius.

[Edited 10/31/12 13:24pm]

The way mjscarousal talks you'd think she'd be at least be 40, but she's just 20 or 21 like me.

We all know that music is subjective, but the cool thing to do around the org is to bitch about how good music used to be and how "real" artists don't get the respect they need and blah blah blah. It's like a fetish to these people.

I've been here for a little over a year now and these type of threads pop up every other day. You'd think they would get tired of talking about he same thing over and over, but NOPE.

duccichucka said:

mjscarousal said:

Mozart and Beethoven are not the only two geniuses of music and I never said

that they were.

And the music was just overall better in quality... it wasnt as generic and elementary as these songs are now. There reallly are no R&B songs on the radio for you to even make a comparision from the past up to now

What?!

Put your money where your mouth is, mjcarousal:

I'm a musician; classically trained and versed in jazz and oh would I LOVE to see you

explain how music of yesterday is better than music of today.

In fact, that challenge goes out to all of youse: you say music of yesterday was better.

HOW? Go back, study music theory, assess all the songs of the radio during the 40s -

up until now and break down why they are better than the songs of today.

You can't. Because:

1. You'd have to listen to every single piece of music that was ever released on the radio

and give an informed account of its musical merits (musical merits...another thing that has

no science behind it - it is simply a matter of taste and convention).

2. You'd have to listen to ever single piece of music that is released today on the radio

and give an informed account of its musical merits.

Why don't y'all just say what you really mean to say and that is:

"I prefer the music I grew up with. I do not like the music on the radio today because it

doesn't sound as good, to me, as the music I prefer to hear. And no, I can't accurately

delineate how and why the music I grew up with is better than music today but I'm pretty

sure it has nothing to do with the music itself as it does with ME."

Then, I'd say:

"Hmm. Sounds reasonable. I understand that. I don't understand how you can say

"Every Little Step I Take" by Bobby Brown is better than Bieber's "If I Was Your Boy-

Friend" because they both utilize pretty much the same chordal arrangement, instru-

mentation, R&B pop stylings and are sung by talented male tenors, for example."

You cannot qualify "BEST" or "BETTER" other than using subjectivity, not science. It is

not a fact that Stevie Wonder is better than Justin Bieber. It is not a fact that Mozart is

better than Justin Bieber. It is a matter of taste, a matter of the utterer's knowledge and

a matter of SUBJECTIVITY.

I don't know how many times I gotta tell y'all this. Stop this "Music of year X is better than

music of year Y" - you cannot prove it! The music is not declining. Music cannot decline.

What you guys are really saying is that the quality of TASTE is down OR that you simply

prefer one era of music over another. That's it! Saying that R&B pop/mainstream music

is on the decline is like saying:

"Hey look everyone! The key of F major is on the decline! Yeah, that B flat ain't what it

used to be!"

I hope you see what I'm getting at here....

Like the Four Tops once sang, "it's the same old song".