namepeace said:

This site, okayplayer and numerous others prove that there's really no excuse not to hunt for "R&B," and those who refuse to do so have no room to complain.

People always say go to such and such a site. But what about the people who don't have computers, internet, etc. and only have the radio (and maybe TV) to listen to. There used to be TV shows like American Bandstand, Soul Train, Shindig, Hee Haw, and others that showcased music. Even if you just listen to the oldies/classic rock stations, they only play certain songs over and over (ie. Layla, Stairway To Heaven, My Girl, Don't Stop Believing).

MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:

This site, okayplayer and numerous others prove that there's really no excuse not to hunt for "R&B," and those who refuse to do so have no room to complain.

People always say go to such and such a site. But what about the people who don't have computers, internet, etc. and only have the radio (and maybe TV) to listen to. There used to be TV shows like American Bandstand, Soul Train, Shindig, Hee Haw, and others that showcased music. Even if you just listen to the oldies/classic rock stations, they only play certain songs over and over (ie. Layla, Stairway To Heaven, My Girl, Don't Stop Believing).

TV and radio are dying mediums as it is...

Timmy84 said:

TV and radio are dying mediums as it is...

Used record stores or the flea market are good places to get music and in a lot of cases, the albums are out of print and probably always will be.

[Edited 10/30/12 13:55pm]

MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:

This site, okayplayer and numerous others prove that there's really no excuse not to hunt for "R&B," and those who refuse to do so have no room to complain.

People always say go to such and such a site. But what about the people who don't have computers, internet, etc. and only have the radio (and maybe TV) to listen to. There used to be TV shows like American Bandstand, Soul Train, Shindig, Hee Haw, and others that showcased music. Even if you just listen to the oldies/classic rock stations, they only play certain songs over and over (ie. Layla, Stairway To Heaven, My Girl, Don't Stop Believing).

Fair points, but at this point, the majority of the country is wired and connected via cell phone at a minimum.

10 years ago, I'd have never written that post for the reasons you laid out..

mjscarousal said:

namepeace said:

But that's the real issue.

What's really died?

a. R&B (or Soul) as a viable "genre"?

b. "Radio" or so-called "black radio," which does not feature what is considered "R&B" (as seemingly defined here) on its airwaves?

c. The R&B audience, due to its overreliance on radio/black radio to deliver "R&B" and its complacency?

As I've said in other threads, I think the answer is really "c." If R&B is in decline, then the audience has put it there. If R&B is dead, the audience has killed it.

This site, okayplayer and numerous others prove that there's really no excuse not to hunt for "R&B," and those who refuse to do so have no room to complain.

I gave up on "R&B" for years, until the so-called "neo-soul" movement and development of internet sites came along. I learned that I have to do some of the legwork on my own. So I'm not knocking anyone on anything I didn't actually used to do myself. But I learned.

You do have a point.

I do think their are some people that still want to listen to R&B tho but its become a obscure genre that is only on certain radio stations and not the mainstream ones. Overall, I think music listeners should go out and find the music because their is R&B still out there and not rely so much on the radio

Agreed. As Mickey said there are people with limited access who are affected by that.

But for the most part, anyone who blogs about the decline of R&B is connected and doesn't have that problem. Again, I used to be that person but not anymore.

And, like blues and jazz before it, "R&B" may well be fading into the background, and taken for granted while we focus on the next big thing.

Most of the target audience for the music industry (tweens, teens, twentysomethings) can't remember a time when Hip-Hop and "Rap and Beats Music" DIDN'T dominate the radio.

[Edited 10/30/12 13:59pm]

MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:

This site, okayplayer and numerous others prove that there's really no excuse not to hunt for "R&B," and those who refuse to do so have no room to complain.

People always say go to such and such a site. But what about the people who don't have computers, internet, etc. and only have the radio (and maybe TV) to listen to. There used to be TV shows like American Bandstand, Soul Train, Shindig, Hee Haw, and others that showcased music. Even if you just listen to the oldies/classic rock stations, they only play certain songs over and over (ie. Layla, Stairway To Heaven, My Girl, Don't Stop Believing).

Fuck 'em. If they can't afford a computer and a monthly internet fee that's their problem. They should have been born with more money.

namepeace said:

MickyDolenz said:

People always say go to such and such a site. But what about the people who don't have computers, internet, etc. and only have the radio (and maybe TV) to listen to. There used to be TV shows like American Bandstand, Soul Train, Shindig, Hee Haw, and others that showcased music. Even if you just listen to the oldies/classic rock stations, they only play certain songs over and over (ie. Layla, Stairway To Heaven, My Girl, Don't Stop Believing).

Fair points, but at this point, the majority of the country is wired and connected via cell phone at a minimum.

10 years ago, I'd have never written that post for the reasons you laid out..

Yeah it was a different world ten years ago lol

Timmy84 said:

MickyDolenz said:

People always say go to such and such a site. But what about the people who don't have computers, internet, etc. and only have the radio (and maybe TV) to listen to. There used to be TV shows like American Bandstand, Soul Train, Shindig, Hee Haw, and others that showcased music. Even if you just listen to the oldies/classic rock stations, they only play certain songs over and over (ie. Layla, Stairway To Heaven, My Girl, Don't Stop Believing).

TV and radio are dying mediums as it is...

Radio is doing too bad.

And TV is very much a continuous success here in the UK

vainandy said:

MickyDolenz said:

People always say go to such and such a site. But what about the people who don't have computers, internet, etc. and only have the radio (and maybe TV) to listen to. There used to be TV shows like American Bandstand, Soul Train, Shindig, Hee Haw, and others that showcased music. Even if you just listen to the oldies/classic rock stations, they only play certain songs over and over (ie. Layla, Stairway To Heaven, My Girl, Don't Stop Believing).

Fuck 'em. If they can't afford a computer and a monthly internet fee that's their problem. They should have been born with more money.

It's not always a case of money, some folks just don't want or care about computers. I know people who get mad that some places don't give out paper job applications and have to use a computer to apply when they don't know how to or they don't have access to one. Technology isn't a help to everyone. It's like some want to buy music in a store, they don't want to download or do mail order.

^ What's the percentage of non computer users? You know? Except for very rural towns (and I live in a rural town with a good internet), I doubt that there's still a huge number of those without internet unless they prefer it that way.

MickyDolenz said:

vainandy said:

Fuck 'em. If they can't afford a computer and a monthly internet fee that's their problem. They should have been born with more money.

It's not always a case of money, some folks just don't want or care about computers. I know people who get mad that some places don't give out paper job applications and have to use a computer to apply when they don't know how to or they don't have access to one. Technology isn't a help to everyone. It's like some want to buy music in a store, they don't want to download or do mail order.

You sure ain't lying about that. My brother had to come over to my place and I had to sit for about 20 minutes filling out an extremely long ass job application for him for Kroger's of all places because they no longer have paper applications. Hell, you would have thought he was applying for a high paid executive job. He couldn't understand why they no longer had paper applications and I simply told him because they have mostly teenagers applying for those jobs who work after school so they can make money to go out and play with. They've have been born with a silver spoon in their mouths their whole lives and their mummies and daddies have bought them computers and those are the ones they would rather hire so they can only work them about 20 hours a week and never have to pay them overtime. As for the ones trying to actually make a living there, they just tell them to go to the library to fill out an application. They're not the ones they really want to hire anyway.

Timmy84 said:

^ What's the percentage of non computer users? You know? Except for very rural towns (and I live in a rural town with a good internet), I doubt that there's still a huge number of those without internet unless they prefer it that way.

If someone's job doesn't require them to use a computer, and they're not of the generation where they were used at school, why would they really need to use one? It's kind of like a toy like a video game. Some people are into video games and some are not. Some might like playing checkers better.

Out of billions of people on earth, I'd say many more don't have a computer than do. There's some places that don't even have electricity or running water. Some places like China, the internet is censored or blocked.

vainandy said:

You sure ain't lying about that. My brother had to come over to my place and I had to sit for about 20 minutes filling out an extremely long ass job application for him for Kroger's of all places because they no longer have paper applications. Hell, you would have thought he was applying for a high paid executive job. He couldn't understand why they no longer had paper applications and I simply told him because they have mostly teenagers applying for those jobs who work after school so they can make money to go out and play with. They've have been born with a silver spoon in their mouths their whole lives and their mummies and daddies have bought them computers and those are the ones they would rather hire so they can only work them about 20 hours a week and never have to pay them overtime. As for the ones trying to actually make a living there, they just tell them to go to the library to fill out an application. They're not the ones they really want to hire anyway.

Good luck with that, as they have a time limit, and if you don't get there way before the library opens, a person can be waiting a long time. Also, you have to have a library card to get on the computer.

Yeah some of those stores have these long questionaires on the application with silly questions like "Are you a happy or a depressed person?"

in defense of the black church (on a seemingly irreligious site), its alive and well in this regard. great vocalists STILL abound! now it may be declining in other ways not appropriate for me to expound on this site, but yeah. had to say that.

datdude said:

in defense of the black church (on a seemingly irreligious site), its alive and well in this regard. great vocalists STILL abound! now it may be declining in other ways not appropriate for me to expound on this site, but yeah. had to say that.

All churches have always had scandal. That's never going to change. To limit it to the black church is just silly.

Terrib3Towel said:

datdude said:

in defense of the black church (on a seemingly irreligious site), its alive and well in this regard. great vocalists STILL abound! now it may be declining in other ways not appropriate for me to expound on this site, but yeah. had to say that.

All churches have always had scandal. That's never going to change. To limit it to the black church is just silly.

Huh?

I dont think that was what the poster was implying....

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

^ What's the percentage of non computer users? You know? Except for very rural towns (and I live in a rural town with a good internet), I doubt that there's still a huge number of those without internet unless they prefer it that way.

If someone's job doesn't require them to use a computer, and they're not of the generation where they were used at school, why would they really need to use one? It's kind of like a toy like a video game. Some people are into video games and some are not. Some might like playing checkers better.

Out of billions of people on earth, I'd say many more don't have a computer than do. There's some places that don't even have electricity or running water. Some places like China, the internet is censored or blocked.

That's just IT though: other countries don't have it yes. Some Americans don't have it, yes. That still doesn't change the fact that this world has evolved in the way where computers are part of everyday life for a lot of people especially in the U.S.

Timmy84 said:

MickyDolenz said:

If someone's job doesn't require them to use a computer, and they're not of the generation where they were used at school, why would they really need to use one? It's kind of like a toy like a video game. Some people are into video games and some are not. Some might like playing checkers better.

Out of billions of people on earth, I'd say many more don't have a computer than do. There's some places that don't even have electricity or running water. Some places like China, the internet is censored or blocked.

That's just IT though: other countries don't have it yes. Some Americans don't have it, yes. That still doesn't change the fact that this world has evolved in the way where computers are part of everyday life for a lot of people especially in the U.S.

My neighbors have twins that are 4 years old and they are using tablets.

I feel it slowly coming back in the mainstream now to be honest.

my bad, it wasn't the OP but the 1st post and unless i'm reading it wrong it seems to be drawing a correlation in the decline of the black church and its "producing" r & b singers like in the days of old.

vainandy said:

MickyDolenz said:

People always say go to such and such a site. But what about the people who don't have computers, internet, etc. and only have the radio (and maybe TV) to listen to. There used to be TV shows like American Bandstand, Soul Train, Shindig, Hee Haw, and others that showcased music. Even if you just listen to the oldies/classic rock stations, they only play certain songs over and over (ie. Layla, Stairway To Heaven, My Girl, Don't Stop Believing).

Fuck 'em. If they can't afford a computer and a monthly internet fee that's their problem. They should have been born with more money.

Is that you Mitt Romney?

phunkdaddy said:

vainandy said:

Fuck 'em. If they can't afford a computer and a monthly internet fee that's their problem. They should have been born with more money.

Is that you Mitt Romney Joe Biden?

ANY old genre has evolved into something almost unrecognizable and, frankly, worse than the original thing:

R&B -> modern R&B

Rap -> shit-hop

Funk -> electronic modern R&B/dance hybrid bullshit

Metal -> nu-metal

Punk -> watered down FM bands

Rock&Roll -> repetitive/down-to-death Hard-Rock which DOESN'T roll

Dance/Pop -> FM shit-dance

Electronic Music -> it has become the cheap bitch of shit-dance/shit-hop

Country -> bland FM shit with strong ties to American Idol and similar shit

you name it

perhaps only Soul and Blues remain fresh yet pure at the same time, and there have been some interesting modern/rock-folk hybrids recently (circa 2006-...)

JoeTyler said:

ANY old genre has evolved into something almost unrecognizable and, frankly, worse than the original thing:

R&B -> modern R&B

Rap -> shit-hop

Funk -> electronic modern R&B/dance hybrid bullshit

Metal -> nu-metal

Punk -> watered down FM bands

Rock&Roll -> repetitive/down-to-death Hard-Rock which DOESN'T roll

Dance/Pop -> FM shit-dance

Electronic Music -> it has become the cheap bitch of shit-dance/shit-hop

Country -> bland FM shit with strong ties to American Idol and similar shit

you name it

perhaps only Soul and Blues remain fresh yet pure at the same time, and there have been some interesting modern/rock-folk hybrids recently (circa 2006-...)

Pretty much...

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

^ What's the percentage of non computer users? You know? Except for very rural towns (and I live in a rural town with a good internet), I doubt that there's still a huge number of those without internet unless they prefer it that way.

If someone's job doesn't require them to use a computer, and they're not of the generation where they were used at school, why would they really need to use one? It's kind of like a toy like a video game. Some people are into video games and some are not. Some might like playing checkers better.

Out of billions of people on earth, I'd say many more don't have a computer than do. There's some places that don't even have electricity or running water. Some places like China, the internet is censored or blocked.

I know more people who don't have computers than I know people who do have computers. They are still very expensive. Spoiled brats are like "well, they're only a few hundred dollars", well duh, that's rent money for some people. The only way I have one is because I charged it on a credit card that I later filed bankruptcy on and I also bought a laptop with my income tax refund one year. But nowadays when I get my refund, I pay two months rent in advance to get some relief. Hell, it's hard enough to buy food and clothes let alone a luxury item like a computer. And then once you have one, it's no good without internet and that's a monthy fee (and an expensive one at that).

And it's not just the money aspect of it either. From what I've seen, when you get on up into the 40s and older, it's mostly women that have the computers and not near as many men because a lot of the men could just simply care less about them. Lots of men work blue collar jobs and don't even know how to turn a computer on, much less use one. Search for facebook pages of old classmates for example. You'll find a lot more pages for female classmates than you will of male classmates because a lot of them simply aren't into it and hell, most of them can't even type. When I took typing in high school, I was the only male in the entire class.

MickyDolenz said:

vainandy said:

You sure ain't lying about that. My brother had to come over to my place and I had to sit for about 20 minutes filling out an extremely long ass job application for him for Kroger's of all places because they no longer have paper applications. Hell, you would have thought he was applying for a high paid executive job. He couldn't understand why they no longer had paper applications and I simply told him because they have mostly teenagers applying for those jobs who work after school so they can make money to go out and play with. They've have been born with a silver spoon in their mouths their whole lives and their mummies and daddies have bought them computers and those are the ones they would rather hire so they can only work them about 20 hours a week and never have to pay them overtime. As for the ones trying to actually make a living there, they just tell them to go to the library to fill out an application. They're not the ones they really want to hire anyway.

Good luck with that, as they have a time limit, and if you don't get there way before the library opens, a person can be waiting a long time. Also, you have to have a library card to get on the computer.

Yeah some of those stores have these long questionaires on the application with silly questions like "Are you a happy or a depressed person?"

He went the library route before he came over to my place. Yes, it did have a time limit on it and that damn application was 20 pages long with a lot of rediculous questions that had more to do with personality than it had to do with experience or education. I'm thinking to myself, hell, he's applying to stock shelves, not to counsel people. He said he had started on the application at the library and the time limit ran out on him four times before he called me and asked could he use mine. And when he got on my computer, I told him to get his ass up and let me fill it out because with his slow pecking ass, he'd be here all night. See....I bet these men wish they had taken typing all those years ago instead of thinking it was something for females only. Little did they know they would need it in the future. Who's got the last laugh now?

phunkdaddy said:

vainandy said:

Fuck 'em. If they can't afford a computer and a monthly internet fee that's their problem. They should have been born with more money.

Is that you Mitt Romney?

Hey, these little spoiled brats that just assume that every single person has all these expensive gadgets with monthly fees definitely have the Mitt Romney attitude. Next thing you know, their answer to people that can't afford these things will be "well just ask your parents for the money".

Timmy84 said:

phunkdaddy said:

Is that you Mitt Romney Joe Biden?

Joe's a cool old man. Hell, I hope he runs for president four years from now.

JoeTyler said:

perhaps only Soul and Blues remain fresh yet pure at the same time, and there have been some interesting modern/rock-folk hybrids recently (circa 2006-...)

Blues is no longer blues either. Yeah, there's still a lot of the old timey depressing "sitting on a stool and playing blues guitar without a band" type blues that goes on in a lot of the upscale elite (mostly white) nightclubs where yuppies go and call themselves exploring Mississippi "culture" but those are mainly local acts that don't even have a recording contract and strictly play these upscale nightclubs.

But when you get into the black cafes, juke joints, and "hole in the wall" clubs where the actual blues market is other than just white yuppies "exploring ancient culture", blues moved on just like everything else and on new blues recordings, the blues artists have seemed to always be 10 years behind the times of the R&B artists. For instance, in the 1970s, a lot of the new blues sounded like it was from the 1960s. In the 1980s, the new blues sounded like the 1970s. And in the 1990s when R&B artists were using shit hop sounding drum machines, a lot of the new blues artists were first using late 1980s sounding drum machines. That's why a lot of people that previously listened to R&B, switched completely over to blues in the 1990s when R&B started sounding like shit hop. But when the 2000s arrived, the new blues artists have started using the shit hop sounding drum machines also and nowadays, the only way you can tell the difference between a blues song and an R&B song, is the voices sound much more country sounding than the R&B singers voices. Check out some Denise LaSalle or Bobby Rush who have been around for decades and see how their sound changed from decade to decade and that's just two of the older blues artists. The newer ones don't even have a hint of blues sound or even R&B sound either. Just those country sounding voices.

.

.

.

[Edited 10/31/12 0:10am]

vainandy said:

JoeTyler said:

perhaps only Soul and Blues remain fresh yet pure at the same time, and there have been some interesting modern/rock-folk hybrids recently (circa 2006-...)

Blues is no longer blues either. Yeah, there's still a lot of the old timey depressing "sitting on a stool and playing blues guitar without a band" type blues that goes on in a lot of the upscale elite (mostly white) nightclubs where yuppies go and call themselves exploring Mississippi "culture" but those are mainly local acts that don't even have a recording contract and strictly play these upscale nightclubs.

But when you get into the black cafes, juke joints, and "hole in the wall" clubs where the actual blues market is other than just white yuppies "exploring ancient culture", blues moved on just like everything else and on new blues recordings, the blues artists have seemed to always be 10 years behind the times of the R&B artists. For instance, in the 1970s, a lot of the new blues sounded like it was from the 1960s. In the 1980s, the new blues sounded like the 1970s. And in the 1990s when R&B artists were using shit hop sounding drum machines, a lot of the new blues artists were first using late 1980s sounding drum machines. That's why a lot of people that previously listened to R&B, switched completely over to blues in the 1990s when R&B started sounding like shit hop. But when the 2000s arrived, the new blues artists have started using the shit hop sounding drum machines also and nowadays, the only way you can tell the difference between a blues song and an R&B song, is the voices sound much more country sounding than the R&B singers voices. Check out some Denise LaSalle or Bobby Rush who have been around for decades and see how their sound changed from decade to decade and that's just two of the older blues artists. The newer ones don't even have a hint of blues sound or even R&B sound either. Just those country sounding voices.

.

.

.

[Edited 10/31/12 0:10am]

I believe you , cuz you live down there and you sure know what you're talking bout, but I was talking about the Ottawa Bluefest festival or the sporadic Crossroad Festivals penned by Clapton: the bands/artists (both old and new) are purists

frankly, I don't know much about modern FM blues, didn't know it even existed, lol