Hello all

In the commercial music we hear today, there is virtually no R&B. Most songs sung by a black person are considered R&B, it seems. If the same song is given to Miley Cyrus it is considered pop.

Since the 50s through till about 2004 or so we heard black artists releasing music that related to the music before. It had it roots in blues/R&b/gospel/soul etc. Rock & Roll to Motown to Minneapolis sound to hip hop to the funk of James Brown etc. They were all very different, but they had some of the same origins.

Now the ''R&B'' we hear is nothing but a singer, usually black, singing or rapping over a euro-dance/techno/house beat. This is saddening.

I know you do hear the odd R&B song on radio (Love On Top, Pretty Wings etc.) but few!

This is why I do not listen to radio or watch music TV anymore, Youtube got what I need

I made a thread some years back saying why R&B had died.

The church, the black church actually.

Think of most of the greast from back in the day. They grew up singing in the church.

James Brown, Al Green, Aretha, WHitney, ect

Black artists will forever be crowned "R&B" because of the separation of black music from the pop charts.

The "Black Singles Chart" and "Hot Black Albums" turned into the R&B charts.

Terrib3Towel said:

Black artists will forever be crowned "R&B" because of the separation of black music from the pop charts.

I've never heard of Johnny Mathis, Tracy Chapman, Charlie Pride, Joan Armatrading, or Denyce Graves being called R&B.

MickyDolenz said:

Terrib3Towel said:

Black artists will forever be crowned "R&B" because of the separation of black music from the pop charts.

I've never heard of Johnny Mathis, Tracy Chapman, Charlie Pride, Joan Armatrading, or Denyce Graves being called R&B.

I doubt those people do commercial music. Denyce I know is an opera singer.

Terrib3Towel said:

Black artists will forever be crowned "R&B" because of the separation of black music from the pop charts.

The "Black Singles Chart" and "Hot Black Albums" turned into the R&B charts.

Pretty Much.

They just seperate the black pop artists from the white ones.

I think its really unfair that they do this because just because their black doesnt mean they make R&B music.... the whole notion is really ignorant honestly.

It hurts the real R&B artists they exactly make R&B.

It's been dead since the 1990s. They have made a little progress though. At least the trance "euro dance" sounds better than the shit hop they've been making for the last 20 years. It still sounds horrible though because it's a rhythmless "whitened down" version of house.

This book was published in 1988:

[img:$uid]http://images.betterworldbooks.com/045/The-Death-of-Rhythm-and-Blues-9780452266971.jpg[/img:$uid]

According to Nelson George rhythm and blues died quite some time ago.

A lot of R&B artists are on the pop chart.........Usher, Chris Brown, Rihanna, Trey Songs, Miguel, Frank Ocean, Brandy, Ne yo......all of these and more are all on the hot 100 on the Billboard charts.

But just like there are some country artists that are on the country chart only...same applies to R&B. But R&B does well on the chart....all the artists in the Top 20 of the R&B charts have been on the Hot 100.

But as far as R&B declining....oh yes. Most artists have changed to be more hip hop oriented. Because straight R&B will get no airplay or sales

Frederick96 said:

A lot of R&B artists are on the pop chart.........Usher, Chris Brown, Rihanna, Trey Songs, Miguel, Frank Ocean, Brandy, Ne yo......all of these and more are all on the hot 100 on the Billboard charts.

But just like there are some country artists that are on the country chart only...same applies to R&B. But R&B does well on the chart....all the artists in the Top 20 of the R&B charts have been on the Hot 100.

But as far as R&B declining....oh yes. Most artists have changed to be more hip hop oriented. Because straight R&B will get no airplay or sales

But hip hop is declining too!

I know many people opposed the R&B/Hip hop crossover in the 90s, and at times it did get way too much, but at least hip hop had some roots in R&B. On the eastcoast you had soul and funk samples incorporated into the music, on the westcoast you had some funky compositions...but this trance/house/dance nonsense is not like that!

Interesting.

What would u call:

Mint Condition

Anthony Hamilton

Bilal

Frank McComb

Eric Roberson

Badu

Jill Scott

Maxwell

Raheem Devaughn...........2 name a few?

Graycap23 said:

Interesting.

What would u call:

Mint Condition

Anthony Hamilton

Bilal

Frank McComb

Eric Roberson

Badu

Jill Scott

Maxwell

Raheem Devaughn...........2 name a few?

I remember hearing Pretty Wings on the radio. Other than that, I haven't heard a song from any of the others on radio in a few years, maybe the last I remember was ''Everybody'' by Anthony Hamilton. (I am in the UK)

ISF said:

Graycap23 said:

Interesting.

What would u call:

Mint Condition

Anthony Hamilton

Bilal

Frank McComb

Eric Roberson

Badu

Jill Scott

Maxwell

Raheem Devaughn...........2 name a few?

I remember hearing Pretty Wings on the radio. Other than that, I haven't heard a song from any of the others on radio in a few years, maybe the last I remember was ''Everybody'' by Anthony Hamilton. (I am in the UK)

Radio is DEAD.

Graycap23 said:

ISF said:

I remember hearing Pretty Wings on the radio. Other than that, I haven't heard a song from any of the others on radio in a few years, maybe the last I remember was ''Everybody'' by Anthony Hamilton. (I am in the UK)

Radio is DEAD.

Of course, I was talking about radio/tv i.e commercial music.

Of course there are people out there making R&B still

Terrib3Towel said:

MickyDolenz said:

I've never heard of Johnny Mathis, Tracy Chapman, Charlie Pride, Joan Armatrading, or Denyce Graves being called R&B.

I doubt those people do commercial music. Denyce I know is an opera singer.

Johnny Mathis is one of the biggest selling acts of all time. He popularized the greatest hits album and the Christmas album. If he's not commercial, then no one is. Charlie Pride is a country singer who was most popular during the late 1960's thru the 1980's. Tracy & Joan record a kind of folky singer-songwriter style pop. Tracy was popular on MTV and Top 40 radio in the 1980's. Tracy recieved little if any R&B radio play. The only Tracy song I heard on an R&B station was Give Me One Reason and it had a more of a straight blues sound. Joan recieved MTV play too, but I think she was more successful in other countries than in the US as she's British.

People talking about black acts not being played on pop stations must haven't listened to the radio after the 1950's. I've heard way more black acts on it than I've heard Arab, Chinese, Indian, or Mexican music and performers being played.

This thread is preposterous. How in the world did the Black church

assist in the decline of R&B? How in the world is a musical art form

itself declining?

Y'all are straight trippin': music will NEVER decline. It cannot do

such a thing. TASTE is what y'all are talking about. And again,

if you look book at all the Billboard Chart 100 Hot New Songs

Played on Pop Radio List, you'll see that taste in pop music has

ALWAYS been questionable.

Stop the kneejerk reaction to what you hear on the radio, as if it's

indicative of ALL the R&B music that is being produced today.

I have to agree with ducci.

duccichucka said:

This thread is preposterous. How in the world did the Black church

assist in the decline of R&B? How in the world is a musical art form

itself declining?

Y'all are straight trippin': music will NEVER decline. It cannot do

such a thing. TASTE is what y'all are talking about. And again,

if you look book at all the Billboard Chart 100 Hot New Songs

Played on Pop Radio List, you'll see that taste in pop music has

ALWAYS been questionable.

Stop the kneejerk reaction to what you hear on the radio, as if it's

indicative of ALL the R&B music that is being produced today.

R&B itself still exists, but barely on radio. You can listen to the ''R&B'' shows on UK radio and you will hear Jason Derulo, Tinchy Stryder and Usher. OMG!

How is this shit R&B? Because the singer is black? I tell you, give the same song to Lizzy McGuire and it's considered pop!

Maybe it is different in the US, I am not sure, I should have a look at the US R&B charts and radio playlists, but in the UK if the song has a black vocalist, it is R&B. Is Rihanna's Disturbia R&B? Clearly not!

Of course there has always been questionable music on the pop charts, but there was diversity on the radio before. You would hear an indy song, followed but house, followed by R&B, even if many of them were slightly watered down and commercial. Now 90% of songs are house, it just depends on the image and race of the artist whether it will be on the POP chart or R&B chart.

Again, I was not commenting on the R&B that is produced today, just the music that is listed as R&B on radio, most of which is not R&B AT ALL.

duccichucka said:

This thread is preposterous. How in the world did the Black church

assist in the decline of R&B? How in the world is a musical art form

itself declining?

Y'all are straight trippin': music will NEVER decline. It cannot do

such a thing. TASTE is what y'all are talking about. And again,

if you look book at all the Billboard Chart 100 Hot New Songs

Played on Pop Radio List, you'll see that taste in pop music has

ALWAYS been questionable.

Stop the kneejerk reaction to what you hear on the radio, as if it's

indicative of ALL the R&B music that is being produced today.

Its pretty obvious we are talking about mainstream R&B declining and not the genre in itself

ISF said:

duccichucka said:

This thread is preposterous. How in the world did the Black church

assist in the decline of R&B? How in the world is a musical art form

itself declining?

Y'all are straight trippin': music will NEVER decline. It cannot do

such a thing. TASTE is what y'all are talking about. And again,

if you look book at all the Billboard Chart 100 Hot New Songs

Played on Pop Radio List, you'll see that taste in pop music has

ALWAYS been questionable.

Stop the kneejerk reaction to what you hear on the radio, as if it's

indicative of ALL the R&B music that is being produced today.

R&B itself still exists, but barely on radio. You can listen to the ''R&B'' shows on UK radio and you will hear Jason Derulo, Tinchy Stryder and Usher. OMG!

How is this shit R&B? Because the singer is black? I tell you, give the same song to Lizzy McGuire and it's considered pop!

Maybe it is different in the US, I am not sure, I should have a look at the US R&B charts and radio playlists, but in the UK if the song has a black vocalist, it is R&B. Is Rihanna's Disturbia R&B? Clearly not!

Of course there has always been questionable music on the pop charts, but there was diversity on the radio before. You would hear an indy song, followed but house, followed by R&B, even if many of them were slightly watered down and commercial. Now 90% of songs are house, it just depends on the image and race of the artist whether it will be on the POP chart or R&B chart.

Again, I was not commenting on the R&B that is produced today, just the music that is listed as R&B on radio, most of which is not R&B AT ALL.

Oh you didn't know you're required to turn off the radio and "search" for it? Folks around here don't want to hear nothing bad said about what's on the radio because they get major erections and have sexual fetishes about the "search".

vainandy said:

ISF said:

R&B itself still exists, but barely on radio. You can listen to the ''R&B'' shows on UK radio and you will hear Jason Derulo, Tinchy Stryder and Usher. OMG!

How is this shit R&B? Because the singer is black? I tell you, give the same song to Lizzy McGuire and it's considered pop!

Maybe it is different in the US, I am not sure, I should have a look at the US R&B charts and radio playlists, but in the UK if the song has a black vocalist, it is R&B. Is Rihanna's Disturbia R&B? Clearly not!

Of course there has always been questionable music on the pop charts, but there was diversity on the radio before. You would hear an indy song, followed but house, followed by R&B, even if many of them were slightly watered down and commercial. Now 90% of songs are house, it just depends on the image and race of the artist whether it will be on the POP chart or R&B chart.

Again, I was not commenting on the R&B that is produced today, just the music that is listed as R&B on radio, most of which is not R&B AT ALL.

Oh you didn't know you're required to turn off the radio and "search" for it? Folks around here don't want to hear nothing bad said about what's on the radio because they get major erections and have sexual fetishes about the "search".

haha of course, I search all the time, otherwise I wouldn't listen to music lol.
The problem is the bullshit played in clubs! On TV shows! When I'm chilling with friends!

Damn, I used to hate that house shit in the 90s, but there was diversity so it didn't matter!

vainandy said:

ISF said:

R&B itself still exists, but barely on radio. You can listen to the ''R&B'' shows on UK radio and you will hear Jason Derulo, Tinchy Stryder and Usher. OMG!

How is this shit R&B? Because the singer is black? I tell you, give the same song to Lizzy McGuire and it's considered pop!

Maybe it is different in the US, I am not sure, I should have a look at the US R&B charts and radio playlists, but in the UK if the song has a black vocalist, it is R&B. Is Rihanna's Disturbia R&B? Clearly not!

Of course there has always been questionable music on the pop charts, but there was diversity on the radio before. You would hear an indy song, followed but house, followed by R&B, even if many of them were slightly watered down and commercial. Now 90% of songs are house, it just depends on the image and race of the artist whether it will be on the POP chart or R&B chart.

Again, I was not commenting on the R&B that is produced today, just the music that is listed as R&B on radio, most of which is not R&B AT ALL.

Oh you didn't know you're required to turn off the radio and "search" for it? Folks around here don't want to hear nothing bad said about what's on the radio because they get major erections and have sexual fetishes about the "search".

Please cut the bullish

I dont listen to the radio and I find alot of acts that make R&B music and have no problems in searching.... but whats so wrong in discussing the decline of R&B in popular music? Just because people discuss it doesnt mean people rely on the radio..... I mean its just music discussion You people are so judgemental

vainandy said:

Oh you didn't know you're required to turn off the radio and "search" for it?

When I was really little I didn't hear the radio at all. I just heard the blues records my grandfather had, the soul & gospel records my grandmother played, and whatever was on TV. They didn't even own a radio at the time, except the one in the truck.

mjscarousal said:

vainandy said:

Oh you didn't know you're required to turn off the radio and "search" for it? Folks around here don't want to hear nothing bad said about what's on the radio because they get major erections and have sexual fetishes about the "search".

Please cut the bullish

I dont listen to the radio and I find alot of acts that make R&B music and have no problems in searching.... but whats so wrong in discussing the decline of R&B in popular music? Just because people discuss it doesnt mean people rely on the radio..... I mean its just music discussion You people are so judgemental

Stop discussing the decline of R&B in popular music on the radio! If more people start talking about it, they might start playing the good stuff and I wouldn't have anything to search for.

Don't be threatening my fetishes. I just love wading through a lot of bullshit to finally find that one song that sounds good and then I sit alone and listen to it and jack my dick off, thrilled to death that I'm the only other person on the face of the earth that has heard the song except for the people that made it.

Y'all bitter as fuck lol

vainandy said:

mjscarousal said:

Please cut the bullish

I dont listen to the radio and I find alot of acts that make R&B music and have no problems in searching.... but whats so wrong in discussing the decline of R&B in popular music? Just because people discuss it doesnt mean people rely on the radio..... I mean its just music discussion You people are so judgemental

Stop discussing the decline of R&B in popular music on the radio! If more people start talking about it, they might start playing the good stuff and I wouldn't have anything to search for.

Don't be threatening my fetishes. I just love wading through a lot of bullshit to finally find that one song that sounds good and then I sit alone and listen to it and jack my dick off, thrilled to death that I'm the only other person on the face of the earth that has heard the song except for the people that made it.

mjscarousal said:

duccichucka said:

This thread is preposterous. How in the world did the Black church

assist in the decline of R&B? How in the world is a musical art form

itself declining?

Y'all are straight trippin': music will NEVER decline. It cannot do

such a thing. TASTE is what y'all are talking about. And again,

if you look book at all the Billboard Chart 100 Hot New Songs

Played on Pop Radio List, you'll see that taste in pop music has

ALWAYS been questionable.

Stop the kneejerk reaction to what you hear on the radio, as if it's

indicative of ALL the R&B music that is being produced today.

Its pretty obvious we are talking about mainstream R&B declining and not the genre in itself

But that's the real issue.

What's really died?

a. R&B (or Soul) as a viable "genre"?

b. "Radio" or so-called "black radio," which does not feature what is considered "R&B" (as seemingly defined here) on its airwaves?

c. The R&B audience, due to its overreliance on radio/black radio to deliver "R&B" and its complacency?

As I've said in other threads, I think the answer is really "c." If R&B is in decline, then the audience has put it there. If R&B is dead, the audience has killed it.

This site, okayplayer and numerous others prove that there's really no excuse not to hunt for "R&B," and those who refuse to do so have no room to complain.

I gave up on "R&B" for years, until the so-called "neo-soul" movement and development of internet sites came along. I learned that I have to do some of the legwork on my own. So I'm not knocking anyone on anything I didn't actually used to do myself. But I learned.

Technically R&B "declined" in the mid-1950s and just began to be appropriated by rockers in the '60s and '70s. R&B's "decline" was due to rock and roll and its subgenres (doo-wop, soul, funk, hip-hop). Meanwhile the original R&B hasn't been "popular" for years. "Contemporary R&B" is not even a good name for the music that came between 1979 and 2002. It was more of a hybrid of jazz, soul, hip-hop, pop, etc. By the end of the 1950s, R&B was typecasted as just being "black music" and not an actual genre. Some other folks later on even called R&B "real black". So if you think about it, what we heard in the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s (you know what people call "real R&B") was actually not R&B but a hybrid of it.

namepeace said:

mjscarousal said:

Its pretty obvious we are talking about mainstream R&B declining and not the genre in itself

But that's the real issue.

What's really died?

a. R&B (or Soul) as a viable "genre"?

b. "Radio" or so-called "black radio," which does not feature what is considered "R&B" (as seemingly defined here) on its airwaves?

c. The R&B audience, due to its overreliance on radio/black radio to deliver "R&B" and its complacency?

As I've said in other threads, I think the answer is really "c." If R&B is in decline, then the audience has put it there. If R&B is dead, the audience has killed it.

This site, okayplayer and numerous others prove that there's really no excuse not to hunt for "R&B," and those who refuse to do so have no room to complain.

I gave up on "R&B" for years, until the so-called "neo-soul" movement and development of internet sites came along. I learned that I have to do some of the legwork on my own. So I'm not knocking anyone on anything I didn't actually used to do myself. But I learned.

You do have a point.

I do think their are some people that still want to listen to R&B tho but its become a obscure genre that is only on certain radio stations and not the mainstream ones. Overall, I think music listeners should go out and find the music because their is R&B still out there and not rely so much on the radio