phunkdaddy said:

I know both acts came out around the same time but i can't say who

came out first. I do know the Cee Lo statement is true according to

him and a hip hop magazine i read several years back.

According to what I investigated, Goodie formed in '91, Outkast a year later but Outkast came out with their debut a year before Goodie did. Technically they formed around the same time and co-founded the Dungeon Family together. That's my take. Plus their styles were too different. Cee-Lo and Andre 3000 may be similar in how they approach music but that's as far as it goes. You can't compare Big Boi to any Goodie Mob member.

I get what you're trying to say though, phunk, but that's like the case with Little Richard and Esquerita. Richard (and Esquerita when asked) would say Esquerita influenced Richard with his pompadour (which was more wilder than, say, Billy Wright's) and his piano playing but Richard came out with his material nearly a decade before Esquerita ever put anything out. In the case of Outkast and Goodie Mob, though, it seems like they were a united group in a way so they influenced each other.

Are they fuck legends!

They've done a few good tunes and some proper dogshit ones Hey Ya and Roses gargle balls!

You saying they're in the same leagues as Prince, James Brown, BB King, Stevie Wonder, Hendrix, etc etc

Bollocks.

I agree that the word "legend" is being misused here and this discussion is based on nonsense.

This discussion makes about as much sense as asking are Outkast "the shit" and then peple replying either "yes" or "no" to it.

Not sure if Outkast are even "popular culture icons". Outkast did a few good records and were commercially successful about a decade ago. Then they disappeared and have had very litle impact on popular culture on the whole. How many rappers do you see drawing a lot of influence from Andre3000? Big Boi? I think what they did was good, but they ended up treating their careers rather indifferently. As far as I know they never became any type of gossip celebrities either (unlike many artists that have sold a lot of records).

honer said:

Timmy84 said:

phunkdaddy said:

I know both acts came out around the same time but i can't say who

came out first. I do know the Cee Lo statement is true according to

him and a hip hop magazine i read several years back.

According to what I investigated, Goodie formed in '91, Outkast a year later but Outkast came out with their debut a year before Goodie did. Technically they formed around the same time and co-founded the Dungeon Family together. That's my take. Plus their styles were too different. Cee-Lo and Andre 3000 may be similar in how they approach music but that's as far as it goes. You can't compare Big Boi to any Goodie Mob member.

If my Atlanta meter is correct, I believe it was said that Ceelo was originally supposed to be in OutKast.

All that some of these comments in this thread proves to me is that some folks don't respect hip-hop...

And that's not Outkast's problem....

Musicslave said:

Timmy84 said:

According to what I investigated, Goodie formed in '91, Outkast a year later but Outkast came out with their debut a year before Goodie did. Technically they formed around the same time and co-founded the Dungeon Family together. That's my take. Plus their styles were too different. Cee-Lo and Andre 3000 may be similar in how they approach music but that's as far as it goes. You can't compare Big Boi to any Goodie Mob member.

If my Atlanta meter is correct, I believe it was said that Ceelo was originally supposed to be in OutKast.

That would make sense. I think Cee-Lo first met Andre and Big Boi in 1991. So they might've been a trio had Cee-Lo's other friends not convinced him to join Goodie Mob.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Here's something else to think about. Are we talking about all around legends, or legends in their genre? Michael Jackson is a mus legend, not just an R&B legend. But Teddy Pendergrass is not, he's just an R&B legend. Same with Depeche Mode, only legends within their genre. Buddy Guy, blues legend. BB King, music legend. Aerosmith Rock legends, Rolling Stones, music legends.

Good point. Of course some people in this site have a disdain for hip-hop because they think hip-hop artists all have shelf lives of five years (uh no they all didn't lol).

No, I do not believe they will ever be considered as legends. There are very few true legends in this world.

I never thought about that, but good point-there are some people that are legends only in their respective musical genres

scriptgirl said:

I never thought about that, but good point-there are some people that are legends only in their respective musical genres

That is exactly where I'm coming from.

scriptgirl said:

I never thought about that, but good point-there are some people that are legends only in their respective musical genres

Yeah. A "music legend" is actually real rare. But a legend of a genre is normal. Outkast are hip-hop legends if they're not already.

I am not one of those people that just calls anybody a legend even if its in a respective genre just because the sky is blue, so sue me I LOVE music and I LOVE hip hop so yes I am going to be very critical especially when it comes to saying such and such is a legend or icon which is very prestigeous.

I dont think everyone is going to be a legend even a genre legend and there is nothing wrong with that it doesnt make them any less of a good artist.

This has nothing to do with genre. There are R&B and POP acts that have been in the game for years even longer than Outkast and are not considered legends... that arguement is not just with hip hop. It depends on the artist. You can honestly count on 2 hands the real legends out of Hip Hop because it is not alot but look at when the genre really took off early 80s to mid 80s so it hasnt been around as long as the other genres; pop, r&b, soul, funk etc.

I think with any genre when people start giving artists title of being legends and icons their body of work and credibility should be evaluated accordingly. I think if somebody didnt care about music or the genre they wouldnt be as criticial.

Its easy to say such and such is a legend because.... but I guess it boils down to what legend means to the person because obviously based on these posts it means different things to different people.

[Edited 10/22/12 14:24pm]

y'all have given me much to think about.

-Legends

-Icons

-Influential Artist

With Hip-Hop, it's crazy deep.

Just on southern rap alone, Outkast probably fill all three.

Other southern legends may include Uncle Luke and the 2 Live Crew, Scarface and the Geto Boys.

If you think about it, in 1994, southern rap was fairly new. The only southern rap making a splash in the mainstream was those artist I named and Arrested Development (and they had no staying power, one and done.) UGK, Three-6-Mafia and 8Ball & MJG were around but hadn't yet hit hard like they'd do the next year (or maybe even later that year.) Master P and No Limit were still located in Richmond and Baby's Cash Money was an underground bounce label not even the best in New Orleans at that time (that belonged to Big Boy and Parkway.)

I think only Scarface and UGK maybe get more love from the south than OutKast (but Kast get more love everywhere else around the globe.)

mjscarousal said:

Hey just giving my 2cents

Is it possible they could be legends? Could be possible, they have a strong catalogue (which most of their generation dont have) but is to soon to call them legends now...

Yes.

They havent even influenced or impacted another era or generation to even say they have had a profound impact on the industry... well thats at least one of the things I think of when I hear legend.

Although I don't agree with this statement, Outkast has been in the businesss for a generation so the time to see their impact on the younglings is in the works.

For what it's worth, I do know that their music and lyrics (as well as Tupac's) and image have also influenced professional jazz and ambient artists that I personally know. For what it's worth...

scriptgirl said:

And do you think they have a shot at the RnR hall of fame?

Yes they are legends already and yes they will get in the RnR hall of fame. Their 5 (some would argue 6) album run really is one of the best in musical history regardless of people's knowledge of or feelings towards hip-hop.

Adisa said:

mjscarousal said:

Hey just giving my 2cents

Is it possible they could be legends? Could be possible, they have a strong catalogue (which most of their generation dont have) but is to soon to call them legends now...

Yes.

They havent even influenced or impacted another era or generation to even say they have had a profound impact on the industry... well thats at least one of the things I think of when I hear legend.

Although I don't agree with this statement, Outkast has been in the businesss for a generation so the time to see their impact on the younglings is in the works.

For what it's worth, I do know that their music and lyrics (as well as Tupac's) and image have also influenced professional jazz and ambient artists that I personally know. For what it's worth...

Thats what for the most part Ive been saying this whole time

What matters is there overall impact and influence which is to early to tell because none of the rap genre in todays generation has their sound or seems to be influenced by it. I am not knocking them for the millionth time but its to soon to call them legends IMO.

[Edited 10/22/12 17:23pm]

mjscarousal said:

Adisa said:

Although I don't agree with this statement, Outkast has been in the businesss for a generation so the time to see their impact on the younglings is in the works.

For what it's worth, I do know that their music and lyrics (as well as Tupac's) and image have also influenced professional jazz and ambient artists that I personally know. For what it's worth...

Thats what for the most part Ive been saying this whole time

What matters is there overall impact and influence which is to early to tell because none of the rap genre in todays generation has their sound or seems to be influenced by it. I am not knocking them for the millionth time but its to soon to call them legends IMO.

[Edited 10/22/12 17:23pm]

I understand what I mean. Still, the rules are not the same I suppose, probably because as it was also stated how legend is defined. L-Boogie is a legend because she's a female hip-hop artist that gained hella success. Eras and future generations have no bearing on her status.

Adisa said:

mjscarousal said:

Thats what for the most part Ive been saying this whole time

What matters is there overall impact and influence which is to early to tell because none of the rap genre in todays generation has their sound or seems to be influenced by it. I am not knocking them for the millionth time but its to soon to call them legends IMO.

[Edited 10/22/12 17:23pm]

I understand what I mean. Still, the rules are not the same I suppose, probably because as it was also stated how legend is defined. L-Boogie is a legend because she's a female hip-hop artist that gained hella success. Eras and future generations have no bearing on her status.

While you are right partially...to an extent it does have bearing...... and yes it goes back to how legend is defined, people define legend.

How can you call an artist a "genre legend" that hasnt had a profound impact on their genre?

In order to be a legend which is higher than great, good etc that means you have had to had changed something in the genre for artists of that genre to model that or slowly evolve the genre

Cause to me that shows how iconic, creative they are when the future of that genre/music tries to mimic that sound, style, look to that as a model etc

I dont see that today with Outkast which is why I said maybe give them 10-20 more years to see where they stand.

If you look at all the legends and even genre legends... they changed something, innovated something, introduced something different that forever changed music or that genre and artists try to enhance it, get inspire by it etc..

Yes it doesnt matter completely but it plays a factor in the overall impact of the artist. If your a genre legend your going to have a BIG impact on that genre and naturally artists/future artists are going to want to look to that.

[Edited 10/22/12 18:11pm]

Okay a better assessment could be that they're veterans but if I'm not mistaken, the Southern hip-hop movement of the '90s is why people hold Outkast up high. Is it not?

mjscarousal said:

Adisa said:

I understand what I mean. Still, the rules are not the same I suppose, probably because as it was also stated how legend is defined. L-Boogie is a legend because she's a female hip-hop artist that gained hella success. Eras and future generations have no bearing on her status.

While you are right partially...to an extent it does have bearing...... and yes it goes back to how legend is defined, people define legend.

How can you call an artist a "genre legend" that hasnt had a profound impact on their genre?

In order to be a legend which is higher than great, good etc that means you have had to had changed something in the genre for artists of that genre to model that or slowly evolve the genre

Cause to me that shows how iconic, creative they are when the future of that genre/music tries to mimic that sound, style, look to that as a model etc

I dont see that today with Outkast which is why I said maybe give them 10-20 more years to see where they stand.

If you look at all the legends and even genre legends... they changed something, innovated something, introduced something different that forever changed music or that genre and artists try to enhance it, get inspire by it etc..

Yes it doesnt matter completely but it plays a factor in the overall impact of the artist. If your a genre legend your going to have a BIG impact on that genre and naturally artists/future artists are going to want to look to that.

[Edited 10/22/12 18:11pm]

It's all subjective. To me and others Outkast's music always stood out from what was currently on the the hip-hop landscape. Their music any lyrics were always on a different level, always pushing new boundaries. And I disagree with Timmy that they are Souther hip-hop. Rather, they are two hip-hop artists from the south...and maybe THAT has always been the appeal. "How can two young bamas keep coming with it like this, and from so far out in left field?"

I hear you...it's all subjective.

Adisa said:

mjscarousal said:

While you are right partially...to an extent it does have bearing...... and yes it goes back to how legend is defined, people define legend.

How can you call an artist a "genre legend" that hasnt had a profound impact on their genre?

In order to be a legend which is higher than great, good etc that means you have had to had changed something in the genre for artists of that genre to model that or slowly evolve the genre

Cause to me that shows how iconic, creative they are when the future of that genre/music tries to mimic that sound, style, look to that as a model etc

I dont see that today with Outkast which is why I said maybe give them 10-20 more years to see where they stand.

If you look at all the legends and even genre legends... they changed something, innovated something, introduced something different that forever changed music or that genre and artists try to enhance it, get inspire by it etc..

Yes it doesnt matter completely but it plays a factor in the overall impact of the artist. If your a genre legend your going to have a BIG impact on that genre and naturally artists/future artists are going to want to look to that.

[Edited 10/22/12 18:11pm]

It's all subjective. To me and others Outkast's music always stood out from what was currently on the the hip-hop landscape. Their music any lyrics were always on a different level, always pushing new boundaries. And I disagree with Timmy that they are Souther hip-hop. Rather, they are two hip-hop artists from the south...and maybe THAT has always been the appeal. "How can two young bamas keep coming with it like this, and from so far out in left field?"

I hear you...it's all subjective.

Hmm, you got a good point with that.

Adisa said:

mjscarousal said:

While you are right partially...to an extent it does have bearing...... and yes it goes back to how legend is defined, people define legend.

How can you call an artist a "genre legend" that hasnt had a profound impact on their genre?

In order to be a legend which is higher than great, good etc that means you have had to had changed something in the genre for artists of that genre to model that or slowly evolve the genre

Cause to me that shows how iconic, creative they are when the future of that genre/music tries to mimic that sound, style, look to that as a model etc

I dont see that today with Outkast which is why I said maybe give them 10-20 more years to see where they stand.

If you look at all the legends and even genre legends... they changed something, innovated something, introduced something different that forever changed music or that genre and artists try to enhance it, get inspire by it etc..

Yes it doesnt matter completely but it plays a factor in the overall impact of the artist. If your a genre legend your going to have a BIG impact on that genre and naturally artists/future artists are going to want to look to that.

[Edited 10/22/12 18:11pm]

It's all subjective. To me and others Outkast's music always stood out from what was currently on the the hip-hop landscape. Their music any lyrics were always on a different level, always pushing new boundaries. And I disagree with Timmy that they are Souther hip-hop. Rather, they are two hip-hop artists from the south...and maybe THAT has always been the appeal. "How can two young bamas keep coming with it like this, and from so far out in left field?"

I hear you...it's all subjective.

Yep, thats pretty much what has happened to the definition of Legend

To be honest, where they come from doesnt really matter or bring any significance really. I honestly think legend should not be subjective because realistically everyone is not going to be a legend or is but I just brought that arguement up to show how people have different definitions.

Once upon a time it use to be something that was a rarity, legend that is and had high standards but it seems now anybody can be a legend and the word has lost its true meaning and has became to subjective. Somebody posted what it is to be a legend and thats the real definition.

I dunno I have alot of favorite artists who have had consistentsy with their music and continued to be creative but that doesnt mean their legends but thats my opinion I guess.

[Edited 10/22/12 19:13pm]

Timmy84 said:

Adisa said:

It's all subjective. To me and others Outkast's music always stood out from what was currently on the the hip-hop landscape. Their music any lyrics were always on a different level, always pushing new boundaries. And I disagree with Timmy that they are Souther hip-hop. Rather, they are two hip-hop artists from the south...and maybe THAT has always been the appeal. "How can two young bamas keep coming with it like this, and from so far out in left field?"

I hear you...it's all subjective.

Hmm, you got a good point with that.

And this is obvious with their image also. They were not the B-Boy rap-group, the militant group, the faux millionaire group, the booty bass and naked hoes group, the thug group, the conscious group, the dope dealer-gangsta turned rapper group. They were two artists with individual flow, style, content, musical and lyrical inspirations, etc. And they managed to put out a string of classic lp's in the process? Not one or two, but a STRING? Yeah...to me...legends.

Timmy84 said:

Okay a better assessment could be that they're veterans but if I'm not mistaken, the Southern hip-hop movement of the '90s is why people hold Outkast up high. Is it not?

Well obviously they are a great hip hop group period which is why they are ranked high by some but I was just arguing that their not legends just yet. "That movement" if you even wanna call it that has had no impact on todays industry and this conversation isnt about those other artists (who style was different from Outkast) which is why I said where they come from doesnt mean anything because just because 5 rappers came from the south doesnt mean they all sound the same.

^^ I got what the both of y'all are saying...

LittleBLUECorvette said:

honer said:

Are they fuck legends!

They've done a few good tunes and some proper dogshit ones Hey Ya and Roses gargle balls!

You saying they're in the same leagues as Prince, James Brown, BB King, Stevie Wonder, Hendrix, etc etc

Bollocks.

The thing most people don't even consider any hip hop artist as legends. I think that right there is unfair. Would you even put Run DMC in that group of artist you just mentioned?

Im actually a massive hip hop fan I just stuck down what came into my head first as legend examples.

I wouldnt say Run DMC were legends, but KRS One, Public Enemy, Wu Tang, 2Live Crew for example could be considered legends, they contributed a lot to music and hiphop and brought a lot of changes. I dont think Outcast brought anything new to the table and fucked about with too many other genres that help shit on there roots IMO