jackson35 said:

TD3 said:

Uh, that is inaccurate. Sheila and Bob Johnson put up their own money (15 million dollars) Mr. John Malone (financier) put up another half-a-million dollar when the Johnson's first launched their network. BET started out being on "AIR" for 2 hours a day and gradually work their way up to a 24hr network.

Have more to say... just did a quick read by of the org this morining.

how does this contradict my point? mr johnson still has to go to a white man to get a black mediaoutlet running, when there is plenty of affluent black professinals that could have written a check.

I agree... and good point.

jackson35 said:

TD3 said:

Uh, that is inaccurate. Sheila and Bob Johnson put up their own money (15 million dollars) Mr. John Malone (financier) put up another half-a-million dollar when the Johnson's first launched their network. BET started out being on "AIR" for 2 hours a day and gradually work their way up to a 24hr network.

Have more to say... just did a quick read by of the org this morning.

How does this contradict my point? Mr Johnson still has to go to a white man to get a black mediaoutlet running, when there is plenty of affluent black professionals that could have written a check.

Less see, how many zeros are behind 15 million versus 500 hundred thousand. —

That's not what you said was it? This wasn't the idea of some "white boy" buying off Blacks to front for a company. Sheila and Bob Johnson had the idea and came up with the bulk of the money to start BET. Ms. Johnson said, she asked other African American to invest in their network, they turned her down. They asked John H. Johnson of Johnson Publishing, he said no. Malone was a banker not a good dwell person floating them just because. Anyone in your family own a business? Ask them do they have a line for credit they use to expand, to hire, and/or train new hires? If Sheila and Bob had come into that venture after the fact, were asked to pony up a mere half of a million dollars and then ask to be the face of the company... than I'd say your observation was straight on. That wasn't the case.

Scorp said:

THIS is what happens when culture has been robbed of her essence

this is what happens when we relinquish our best interest for the sake of "success"

now we are seeing the cumilative effect unfold, and it's going to get worse

this is why the pop ascension movement which began in 1987, ripped the very fabric from culture, in particular black culture

BET was already in decline thru incremental stages beginning the late 80s, even as the network was ascending, Donnie Simpson saw it, and that's why he got outta there

this is not her fault, or her husband's fault, it was the system of things predicated on exploitation combined indifference that has led to black americans losing their voice

and thru the current age of politics (which is watered down), and because of the "historical" precedence we witnessed 4 years ago, our voice will contine to lose its voice

because of the illusion, channeled thru the false notion of political correctness, many of us are participating in our own demise but don't realize it....

because we compromised our genuine worth, and once we do that, it's very difficult to regain it, because by that point, the system has already exploited it

but if we would have stood up when the moment called for it and said "naw, we ain't rollin like that"......BET would have been what Ms. Johnson had envisioned....

Exactly. BET was heading in the wrong directions years before Viacom. I remember saying this when I was in college in the 90s- when they had nothing but video shows on and took off the news.

I personally don't have a problem with Bob Johnson selling the network- that's just smart business. But, I want Sheila to stop acting like they didn't play a part in the demise of the network.

[Edited 10/17/12 17:19pm]

musicman said:

Scorp said:

THIS is what happens when culture has been robbed of her essence

this is what happens when we relinquish our best interest for the sake of "success"

now we are seeing the cumilative effect unfold, and it's going to get worse

this is why the pop ascension movement which began in 1987, ripped the very fabric from culture, in particular black culture

BET was already in decline thru incremental stages beginning the late 80s, even as the network was ascending, Donnie Simpson saw it, and that's why he got outta there

this is not her fault, or her husband's fault, it was the system of things predicated on exploitation combined indifference that has led to black americans losing their voice

and thru the current age of politics (which is watered down), and because of the "historical" precedence we witnessed 4 years ago, our voice will contine to lose its voice

because of the illusion, channeled thru the false notion of political correctness, many of us are participating in our own demise but don't realize it....

because we compromised our genuine worth, and once we do that, it's very difficult to regain it, because by that point, the system has already exploited it

but if we would have stood up when the moment called for it and said "naw, we ain't rollin like that"......BET would have been what Ms. Johnson had envisioned....

Exactly. BET was heading in the wrong directions years before Viacom. I remember saying this when I was in college in the 90s- when they had nothing but video shows on and took off the news.

I personally don't have a problem with Bob Johnson selling the network- that's just smart business. But, I want Sheila to stop acting like they didn't play a part in the demise of the network.

[Edited 10/17/12 17:19pm]

excellent points.....

we as an audience were disrespected when they removed the news programming......

another story that could have been exceptional turned tragic....

u know it's bad when a station has to continously air reruns of recent shows to fill up time slots....

TD3 said:

jackson35 said:

How does this contradict my point? Mr Johnson still has to go to a white man to get a black mediaoutlet running, when there is plenty of affluent black professionals that could have written a check.

Less see, how many zeros are behind 15 million versus 500 hundred thousand. —

That's not what you said was it? This wasn't the idea of some "white boy" buying off Blacks to front for a company. Sheila and Bob Johnson had the idea and came up with the bulk of the money to start BET. Ms. Johnson said, she asked other African American to invest in their network, they turned her down. They asked John H. Johnson of Johnson Publishing, he said no. Malone was a banker not a good dwell person floating them just because. Anyone in your family own a business? Ask them do they have a line for credit they use to expand, to hire, and/or train new hires? If Sheila and Bob had come into that venture after the fact, were asked to pony up a mere half of a million dollars and then ask to be the face of the company... than I'd say your observation was straight on. That wasn't the case.

Interesting... I dont know all the specifics of BET's history and how it got started but I think its sad they sold it after all that hard work and sold it knowing that Viacom would change the net work.

I've searched NPR archives and I haven't been able to find the extensive report on BET, the time Sheila and Bob Johnson owned it and the eventual sale to Viacom.

Recalling from memory..

One of the things that the NPR said through out their report were the conflicts between what Sheila and Bob wanted BET to be and air versus the reality of advertising dollars, cost, and ratings. Slowly but surely as the years went by Mr. & Mrs. Johnson made decision to choose programming based on its ability to (low investment/high return) generate money vs content that was more expensive and generate low ratings. As Musicman and Scorp pointed out the content of BET started sliding on the Johnson's watch not after they sold their network to Viacom.

That being said......

The Wall Street Journal a couple of years ago they said it cost upward of five million dollars to create 30 minute pilot and ruffly ten million dollars to create an hour long pilot. Can we kinda understand the issues Johnson's and Ms. Winfrey were and are facing? For all the screaming and accusing the Johnson's of being sell outs... if you don't have the viewers you don't get the all mighty end all to be all advertising dollars. In some instances if you don't have shows your audience wants to watch, they go elsewhere. Both Johnson's spoke of the frustration of trying to pull in all demographics of the African-American population inorder to weather ebbs and flows of each age group. Sheila and Bob Johnson knew the Video Soul period wouldn't last forever. What does Viacom have that the Johnson's didn't have? Foremost, Viacom had a profitable media empire that afforded them the ability to take invest, take risk, and swallow cost of shows that weren't ratings windfalls. The Johnson's said though their network was profitable, the didn't have a large margin for error nor failure.

Its my understand that our local Fox Station in Chi-Town (WFLD) lost money for nearly a decade before it turned a profit.

TD3 said:

jackson35 said:

How does this contradict my point? Mr Johnson still has to go to a white man to get a black mediaoutlet running, when there is plenty of affluent black professionals that could have written a check.

Less see, how many zeros are behind 15 million versus 500 hundred thousand. —

That's not what you said was it? This wasn't the idea of some "white boy" buying off Blacks to front for a company. Sheila and Bob Johnson had the idea and came up with the bulk of the money to start BET. Ms. Johnson said, she asked other African American to invest in their network, they turned her down. They asked John H. Johnson of Johnson Publishing, he said no. Malone was a banker not a good dwell person floating them just because. Anyone in your family own a business? Ask them do they have a line for credit they use to expand, to hire, and/or train new hires? If Sheila and Bob had come into that venture after the fact, were asked to pony up a mere half of a million dollars and then ask to be the face of the company... than I'd say your observation was straight on. That wasn't the case.

Well that definitely ends that "whites buying off of blacks" b.s. story then... yeah the Johnsons sold it to Viacom because other prominent blacks refused to buy it.

mjscarousal said:

TD3 said:

Less see, how many zeros are behind 15 million versus 500 hundred thousand. —

That's not what you said was it? This wasn't the idea of some "white boy" buying off Blacks to front for a company. Sheila and Bob Johnson had the idea and came up with the bulk of the money to start BET. Ms. Johnson said, she asked other African American to invest in their network, they turned her down. They asked John H. Johnson of Johnson Publishing, he said no. Malone was a banker not a good dwell person floating them just because. Anyone in your family own a business? Ask them do they have a line for credit they use to expand, to hire, and/or train new hires? If Sheila and Bob had come into that venture after the fact, were asked to pony up a mere half of a million dollars and then ask to be the face of the company... than I'd say your observation was straight on. That wasn't the case.

Interesting... I don't know all the specifics of BET's history and how it got started but I think its sad they sold it after all that hard work and sold it knowing that Viacom would change the net work.

Yeah, it really interesting about how BET came to be and why the Johnson's latched on to cable when it wasn't seen as a viable market for anything except adult entertainment.... a nice way of saying porn.

If you read my other post, I can't recall what Bob and Sheila said their reason(s) were for selling BET. From some of the folks I know who are in that line of work, they said the Johnson's personal issues couldn't be reconciled with them continuing to be partners in business. Purely conjecture, but that's what I've been told.

TD3 said:

mjscarousal said:

Interesting... I don't know all the specifics of BET's history and how it got started but I think its sad they sold it after all that hard work and sold it knowing that Viacom would change the net work.

Yeah, it really interesting about how BET came to be and why the Johnson's latched on to cable when it wasn't seen as a viable market for anything except adult entertainment.... a nice way of saying porn.

If you read my other post, I can't recall what Bob and Sheila said their reason(s) were for selling BET. From some of the folks I know who are in that line of work, they said the Johnson's personal issues couldn't be reconciled with them continuing to be partners in business. Purely conjecture, but that's what I've been told.

Weren't they about to divorce when they sold BET?

Timmy84 said:

TD3 said:

Yeah, it really interesting about how BET came to be and why the Johnson's latched on to cable when it wasn't seen as a viable market for anything except adult entertainment.... a nice way of saying porn.

If you read my other post, I can't recall what Bob and Sheila said their reason(s) were for selling BET. From some of the folks I know who are in that line of work, they said the Johnson's personal issues couldn't be reconciled with them continuing to be partners in business. Purely conjecture, but that's what I've been told.

Weren't they about to divorce when they sold BET?

I think so.

Scorp said:

musicman said:

Exactly. BET was heading in the wrong directions years before Viacom. I remember saying this when I was in college in the 90s- when they had nothing but video shows on and took off the news.

I personally don't have a problem with Bob Johnson selling the network- that's just smart business. But, I want Sheila to stop acting like they didn't play a part in the demise of the network.

[Edited 10/17/12 17:19pm]

excellent points.....

we as an audience were disrespected when they removed the news programming......

another story that could have been exceptional turned tragic....

u know it's bad when a station has to continously air reruns of recent shows to fill up time slots....

Yep! And now they want to create original programs- I say that's about 10 years too late. TVOne's only been on for 8 years and they've done more than BET has ever done with its programming.

mjscarousal said:

TD3 said:

Less see, how many zeros are behind 15 million versus 500 hundred thousand. —

That's not what you said was it? This wasn't the idea of some "white boy" buying off Blacks to front for a company. Sheila and Bob Johnson had the idea and came up with the bulk of the money to start BET. Ms. Johnson said, she asked other African American to invest in their network, they turned her down. They asked John H. Johnson of Johnson Publishing, he said no. Malone was a banker not a good dwell person floating them just because. Anyone in your family own a business? Ask them do they have a line for credit they use to expand, to hire, and/or train new hires? If Sheila and Bob had come into that venture after the fact, were asked to pony up a mere half of a million dollars and then ask to be the face of the company... than I'd say your observation was straight on. That wasn't the case.

Interesting... I dont know all the specifics of BET's history and how it got started but I think its sad they sold it after all that hard work and sold it knowing that Viacom would change the net work.

But like me and Scorp said, the network was already going bad in the early 90s. Viacom only came in and enhanced the problem. But, I still don't understand why people are mad at Bob Johnson for being about business and selling a company.He created it, it was his to sell. It's not like it was better under his control. And don't get me started about Debra Lee's shady a**

I remember the early days of BET. I was 4 when it started- but I remember it being on for a couple of hours, then going off- and by the time I was 7, it stayed on all the time.

musicman said:

mjscarousal said:

Interesting... I dont know all the specifics of BET's history and how it got started but I think its sad they sold it after all that hard work and sold it knowing that Viacom would change the net work.

But like me and Scorp said, the network was already going bad in the early 90s. Viacom only came in and enhanced the problem. But, I still don't understand why people are mad at Bob Johnson for being about business and selling a company.He created it, it was his to sell. It's not like it was better under his control. And don't get me started about Debra Lee's shady a**

I remember the early days of BET. I was 4 when it started- but I remember it being on for a couple of hours, then going off- and by the time I was 7, it stayed on all the time.

That's true. I think Video Soul started in 1983, maybe that's what made BET into a 24-hour channel? Never mind it started in 1981 but Donnie Simpson joined in 1983.

[Edited 10/17/12 19:57pm]

musicman said:

Scorp said:

excellent points.....

we as an audience were disrespected when they removed the news programming......

another story that could have been exceptional turned tragic....

u know it's bad when a station has to continously air reruns of recent shows to fill up time slots....

Yep! And now they want to create original programs- I say that's about 10 years too late. TVOne's only been on for 8 years and they've done more than BET has ever done with its programming.

very, very true

as a whole, just the entire entertainment realm has declined in every aspect

talk radio has tanked too, the only programs that stand out these days are the ones that are abrasive.....they have to be abrasive to stand out because they lack substance

real urban radio and radio in general started to decline around this time too......

the greatest single talk radio show I've ever heard was by Bob Law in New York City, his show as called NIGHTTALK, aired monday thru thursday from 11pm-3pm (central time)

that was the best thing I ever heard on radio ever

Bob Law was a programmer's programmer....I learned so much from him.....

he didn't play no music, no entertainment news, no exploitation, no wash

it was all commentary, journalism, an insight all wrap in one....

none of these guys today, Tom Joyner, Steve Harvey, Michael Baisden have nothing on this guy

and he predicted as early as the late 80s that urban radio would be homogenized and eventually collapse on its ears,

what we are exposed to now on these urban stations is not on the same level it was during that time......

BET was already done by the time the 90s arrived......

BOB JOHNSON sold that network because he was embarassed by it and saw how the integrity was thrown out the window, at least 2 generations have been exploited

[Edited 10/17/12 20:13pm]

musicman said:

mjscarousal said:

Interesting... I dont know all the specifics of BET's history and how it got started but I think its sad they sold it after all that hard work and sold it knowing that Viacom would change the net work.

But like me and Scorp said, the network was already going bad in the early 90s. Viacom only came in and enhanced the problem. But, I still don't understand why people are mad at Bob Johnson for being about business and selling a company.He created it, it was his to sell. It's not like it was better under his control. And don't get me started about Debra Lee's shady a**

I remember the early days of BET. I was 4 when it started- but I remember it being on for a couple of hours, then going off- and by the time I was 7, it stayed on all the time.

Well I just think its bullshit that they are trying to imply they didnt know Viacom was going to change the network, THEY KNEW THAT .... I am not mad at anybody trying to get money but with anything I am going to give my opinion. At the time, money was more important but now that they see how the channel has evolved they see it is terrible now.

and I was probably not even born yet when it happened but my main point was the hands that had it originally was doing a much better job than what Viacom doing. I rather Bob or Shelia have it then Viacom at least they were promoting more positive things on black culture.

the reason why bet had the type of programing it had because it was never black owned. point 1 mrs Johnson said she went to Mr Johnson ceo of jet magazine for an investment and he said no, even they knew he already own a slew of radio and tv station and could not get invest. they went around asking black folks who already have invest in other media outlets that could not invest in their scam. racist corporate media group bought bet for 15 mill and hired bob Johnson as a company front so they wont have to take hits about their racist programing. how any of you actually believe that a white billionaire would cut a 3bilion dollar check to black man with a rinky dink cable net work that did not have booming ratings?

TVOne is the future.

Prospect said:

TVOne is the future.

Though they need better programming, I agree...

Timmy84 said:

Prospect said:

TVOne is the future.

Though they need better programming, I agree...

What about BounceTV?

BET taking us black folks back to the 1800's with their coonery, reincarnation Sarah Bartman exploitation with the black women and ignorant programming........... quite sad exactly being we came along ways. You would think they would try to move BEYOND the stereotypes but nooooooooo..... *1800 slave voice* "yes sir master"

mjscarousal said:

BET taking us black folks back to the 1800's with their coonery, reincarnation Sarah Bartman exploitation with the black women and ignorant programming........... quite sad exactly being we came along ways. You would think they would try to move BEYOND the stereotypes but nooooooooo..... *1800 slave voice* "yes sir master"

this is what happens when culture gets exploited

where the struggle was marginilized and diminished, and if that's the case, which it is

that means this society hasn't moved as forward as it was led to believe and has regressed in many ways

the problem is we participated in it

allot of our comedians of the last 25 years have made a living, built their careers over mocking their own

so when other cultures see that, they are going to respond in likeness

lyrical content changed for the worse....

all these major black radio hosts who are syndicated, they do the exact same thing, so in order to thrive in the world of today's entertainment, we have reduced ourselves to having to mock each other to establilsh careers.....

limiting the range of what our talents could be used for...

so the day we stop participating in it, then all this madness will cease, and we'll find ourselves elevating the minds of our youth, because what they project is only what they have seen coming up....

our community has internalized the conflict for racism operates on cruise control these days, it doesn't need any one person to steer the ship any longer

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

BET taking us black folks back to the 1800's with their coonery, reincarnation Sarah Bartman exploitation with the black women and ignorant programming........... quite sad exactly being we came along ways. You would think they would try to move BEYOND the stereotypes but nooooooooo..... *1800 slave voice* "yes sir master"

this is what happens when culture gets exploited

. . . and the "knockoffs" are cheaper to produce than the original brands.

where the struggle was marginilized and diminished, and if that's the case, which it is

that means this society hasn't moved as forward as it was led to believe and has regressed in many ways

I think the forward movement of black society -- which I think you're referring to -- has mostly occurred under the radar. "Black" media outlets don't often reflect it, and the same mostly goes what passes for "black culture" in mainstream entertainment.

the problem is we participated in it

Not much denying that.

allot of our comedians of the last 25 years have made a living, built their careers over mocking their own

so when other cultures see that, they are going to respond in likeness

Most so-called MCs do that too. It doesn't matter how hot the beat is, or how clever the rhymes are. Ultimately they're putting down their own. I don't buy much hip-hop anymore because I don't want to listen to anyoen spending 80 minutes 1) threatening to kill me and others, 2) how much richer he is, or 3) struggles with unnamed, imaginary "haters." But it's been this way for 20 years.

lyrical content changed for the worse....

Gangsta is a moneymaker.

all these major black radio hosts who are syndicated, they do the exact same thing, so in order to thrive in the world of today's entertainment, we have reduced ourselves to having to mock each other to establilsh careers.....

Indeed.

limiting the range of what our talents could be used for...

Rap music is a monolith now. Hell, if you watched television, you'd think a middle-aged MC is the only rapper in the game at all.

so the day we stop participating in it, then all this madness will cease, and we'll find ourselves elevating the minds of our youth, because what they project is only what they have seen coming up....

That will be a problem. By the time hip-hop came along, kids had come up with music in many different forms. The target audience today -- kids, teens, twentysomethings -- they can't remember a time when rap music didn't dominate the musical scene. As a form of pop music, hip-hop has gone the way of disco but nothing has come along to replace it.

our community has internalized the conflict for racism operates on cruise control these days, it doesn't need any one person to steer the ship any longer

Interesting obserrvation.

namepeace said:

Scorp said:

this is what happens when culture gets exploited

. . . and the "knockoffs" are cheaper to produce than the original brands.

where the struggle was marginilized and diminished, and if that's the case, which it is

that means this society hasn't moved as forward as it was led to believe and has regressed in many ways

I think the forward movement of black society -- which I think you're referring to -- has mostly occurred under the radar. "Black" media outlets don't often reflect it, and the same mostly goes what passes for "black culture" in mainstream entertainment.

the problem is we participated in it

Not much denying that.

allot of our comedians of the last 25 years have made a living, built their careers over mocking their own

so when other cultures see that, they are going to respond in likeness

Most so-called MCs do that too. It doesn't matter how hot the beat is, or how clever the rhymes are. Ultimately they're putting down their own. I don't buy much hip-hop anymore because I don't want to listen to anyoen spending 80 minutes 1) threatening to kill me and others, 2) how much richer he is, or 3) struggles with unnamed, imaginary "haters." But it's been this way for 20 years.

lyrical content changed for the worse....

Gangsta is a moneymaker.

all these major black radio hosts who are syndicated, they do the exact same thing, so in order to thrive in the world of today's entertainment, we have reduced ourselves to having to mock each other to establilsh careers.....

Indeed.

limiting the range of what our talents could be used for...

Rap music is a monolith now. Hell, if you watched television, you'd think a middle-aged MC is the only rapper in the game at all.

so the day we stop participating in it, then all this madness will cease, and we'll find ourselves elevating the minds of our youth, because what they project is only what they have seen coming up....

That will be a problem. By the time hip-hop came along, kids had come up with music in many different forms. The target audience today -- kids, teens, twentysomethings -- they can't remember a time when rap music didn't dominate the musical scene. As a form of pop music, hip-hop has gone the way of disco but nothing has come along to replace it.

our community has internalized the conflict for racism operates on cruise control these days, it doesn't need any one person to steer the ship any longer

Interesting obserrvation.

excellent observations.......

I loved what you said about the fact no fresh genre of music has come forth to replace the current state of hip-hop

all the great forms of music we have come to know has evolved from the spirituals, which shaped our culture....

the forefathers who crafted hip-hop during its inceptions..those cats from the new york city burroughs, they knew they were sitting on something precious

and they warned those who would listen, if hip-hop ever became commercialized, it would be destroyed.....they said that back in the mid 1970s....

their words have been proven prophetic ten fold...

we've been misled in so many ways it's countless