errant said:

Death of the record industry? Good. Kill it. Kill it completely dead and let something better grown in its place.

I hardly care anymore but you're under the assumption that something better will grow in it's place.

I'm under the assumption that NOTHING will grow in it's place.

Then again I am cynical.

errant said:

Death of the record industry? Good. Kill it. Kill it completely dead and let something better grown in its place.

Exactly. I'd like to see it just die altogether. If folks ain't capable of jamming anymore, then just don't make anything new at all. It's very evident that since there's been no complete style change since the 1990s, that there's not going to be one as long as the record industry exists so instead of more of the same old shit, just let the industry die altogether. Without the constant influence of the last 20 years, something completely different might emerge from the ashes and if it doesn't, at least you don't have more of the same old shit dominating.

CynicKill said:

errant said:

Death of the record industry? Good. Kill it. Kill it completely dead and let something better grown in its place.

I hardly care anymore but you're under the assumption that something better will grow in it's place.

I'm under the assumption that NOTHING will grow in it's place.

Then again I am cynical.

If nothing grows in it's place, then everyone can just gravitate toward their favorite era of music. One of the reasons there has been no style change since the 1990s is because the record companies make sure that styles aren't going to change because they don't want anything that costs more to make to take over so the only acts they sign and promote are the ones with the Fisher Price instruments.

If the labels were to collapse, people would have no other choice than to gravitate toward the stuff that has already been recorded since nothing new would be released. After a while, they would eventually get tired of their current music after hearing it thousands of times over and over and would start going back to previous eras of music when styles were completely different. If the industry ever got back on it's feet again in the future, something completely different would stand a chance at being made and promoted but nothing is going to change as long as more of the same old cheap shit is being released and promoted the hell out of. On the other hand, if the industry never got back on it's feet, well that's fine. At least this current shit that has dominated for so long will finally be killed off.

smoothcriminal12 said:

I,too wouldn't care if the music industry died.We have enough great music from the 60s,70s,and 80s to enjoy for the rest of our lives.That's pretty much all I listen to,anyway

are we talking about vinyls or the industry in general??

80-81 were transitional years, the only real blockbuster of those years was "Back in Black" if I'm not mistaken

the music industry recovered from the "end of disco" era with new superstars, MTV, the tape/CD, and a new audience which was too young to buy albums in the 70s but old enough to buy tapes/CDs in the 80s...

...just as the videogame industry recovered from the mega-crash of 1983 (that dreadful E.T. game, bankruptcy of Atari, etc) with new Arcade machines, new game franchises, Nintendo, Sega, etc

Perfect example:

The record business collapsing would put thousands of people out of work. The industry is not just the performers, it's also the people who work at the record/CD/tape pressing plants, the distributors, the art departments, promotion, etc. It would also hurt employees who work in the concert business and radio. Sooner or later, the older acts that make the most money touring are not going to be able to perform (like Phil Collins) or be around at all. The CEO's of the companies are not really going to be hurt if the industry dies, because some of them are rich already, but it will hurt most of the lower level employees, like Enron. People always griped about popular music, but the big acts are funding music that is less popular. At any time, very few acts have had big sales or mainstream attention. If the labels were depending on the sales of blues, Hawaiian, zydeco, or classical albums, it would have went out of business a long time ago. People think performers have some kind of control or power, when they're just employees of a company, no different than employees of any other place.

MickyDolenz said:

The record business collapsing would put thousands of people out of work. The industry is not just the performers, it's also the people who work at the record/CD/tape pressing plants, the distributors, the art departments, promotion, etc. It would also hurt employees who work in the concert business and radio. Sooner or later, the older acts that make the most money touring are not going to be able to perform (like Phil Collins) or be around at all. The CEO's of the companies are not really going to be hurt if the industry dies, because some of them are rich already, but it will hurt most of the lower level employees, like Enron. People always griped about popular music, but the big acts are funding music that is less popular. At any time, very few acts have had big sales or mainstream attention. If the labels were depending on the sales of blues, Hawaiian, zydeco, or classical albums, it would have went out of business a long time ago. People think performers have some kind of control or power, when they're just employees of a company, no different than employees of any other place.

I used to feel this way but I always felt that I was alone in the forest.

People don't see it now because hey, "I'm getting what i want for free", but nothing is free. And soon nothing is what you'll be getting.

I'm old enough to stop fighting and not care anymore, after all I've had my time (I know that sounds selfish but..)

I say wait and let people see what's going to happen. By that time it might be too late but they will see.

Then again I feel that way about technology anyways. It's a mixed blessing. It's hella convenient but that's the problem. I'm defiant on my feelings about an internet economy NOT being able to build communities. I'm surprised it's not obvious already. When one industry after another is being ticked off and replaced by a new technology you need to open your eyes.

So many cities never recovered from the steel mills leaving in the 70's/80's.

CynicKill said:

MickyDolenz said:

The record business collapsing would put thousands of people out of work. The industry is not just the performers, it's also the people who work at the record/CD/tape pressing plants, the distributors, the art departments, promotion, etc. It would also hurt employees who work in the concert business and radio. Sooner or later, the older acts that make the most money touring are not going to be able to perform (like Phil Collins) or be around at all. The CEO's of the companies are not really going to be hurt if the industry dies, because some of them are rich already, but it will hurt most of the lower level employees, like Enron. People always griped about popular music, but the big acts are funding music that is less popular. At any time, very few acts have had big sales or mainstream attention. If the labels were depending on the sales of blues, Hawaiian, zydeco, or classical albums, it would have went out of business a long time ago. People think performers have some kind of control or power, when they're just employees of a company, no different than employees of any other place.

Well, if they're smart, they better start focusing their art and promotion departments more on other genres such as country, rock, blues, classical, jazz, etc. where the audience is more likely to buy their product rather than download it for free. If they want to keep focusing on keeping the sorry excuse for what they call R&B these days all in the mainstream, they are eventually going to hang themselves because that younger audience, moreso than any other audience, is the main one that is going to find those songs on the internet and download them for free rather than buy the albums.

This isn't like the old days when the younger crowd would spend their last dime buying music. The younger crowd nowadays is saving and spending their last money on computers and other gadgets and once they obtain them, they no longer have to buy the music, they can find it somewhere on the internet and get it for free. The record industry wanted to save loads of money promoting nothing but the cheapest made music possible with computers and now computers themselves are killing the industry in the form of free downloads. As far as I'm concerned, they created this monster themselves and now the monster has turned on them. What goes around, comes around, and now they are getting exactly what they deserve. As far as R&B is concerned, either throwdown or sit down and if they don't want to throwdown, then I hope it just dies altogether completely. I'm loving it and encourage young people who are into current R&B to download all the time because when it finally does die, it's going to be a bigger orgasm to me than a gangbang with a room full of hairy men.

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[Edited 10/10/12 10:53am]

vainandy said:

Well, if they're smart, they better start focusing their art and promotion departments more on other genres such as country, rock, blues, classical, jazz, etc. where the audience is more likely to buy their product rather than download it for free.

Has these ever really been that popular on Top 40 radio? B.B. King has been performing since the late 1940's and he has 2 big pop singles and one of them was with U2. I think his biggest selling album was the duet album with Eric Clapton Riding With The King.

MickyDolenz said:

vainandy said:

Well, if they're smart, they better start focusing their art and promotion departments more on other genres such as country, rock, blues, classical, jazz, etc. where the audience is more likely to buy their product rather than download it for free.

Has these ever really been that popular on Top 40 radio? B.B. King has been performing since the late 1940's and he has 2 big pop singles and one of them was with U2. I think his biggest selling album was the duet album with Eric Clapton Riding With The King.

The point Andy was making is in bold...it's not necessarily about big sales or popularity for them, just consistent sales. I would add gospel and CCM to this list also.

Adisa said:

MickyDolenz said:

Has these ever really been that popular on Top 40 radio? B.B. King has been performing since the late 1940's and he has 2 big pop singles and one of them was with U2. I think his biggest selling album was the duet album with Eric Clapton Riding With The King.

The point Andy was making is in bold...it's not necessarily about big sales or popularity for them, just consistent sales. I would add gospel and CCM to this list also.

Overall country music has sold steadily most of the time. The individual albums might not appear on any biggest sellers list, but blues, jazz, and classical always had niche audiences. Jazz had some mainstream popularity during the 1930's big band days. What I was saying is that the big mainstream acts help the labels to put out music on genres that don't get the same media attention. It's like movie studios finance "art films" and documentaries with profits from 'summer blockbuster' movies. If a label put the same amount of money and promotion on a polka band as they did on Beyonce, the majority still wouldn't buy it. Some things just don't appeal to a wide audience. But the niche audience is more likely to be loyal than a mainstream one, which tends to jump on one thing to the next. I remember someone wondering why Will Downing can still keep an audience as all his records sound alike. Some people don't care about change or "innovation", they want something they like. They sometimes abandon the act if they try to make a change. There's folks who only like the "Yeah Yeah Yeah" mop top Beatles, but not the later stuff.

Adisa said:

MickyDolenz said:

Has these ever really been that popular on Top 40 radio? B.B. King has been performing since the late 1940's and he has 2 big pop singles and one of them was with U2. I think his biggest selling album was the duet album with Eric Clapton Riding With The King.

The point Andy was making is in bold...it's not necessarily about big sales or popularity for them, just consistent sales. I would add gospel and CCM to this list also.

Exactly.

MickyDolenz said:

Adisa said:

The point Andy was making is in bold...it's not necessarily about big sales or popularity for them, just consistent sales. I would add gospel and CCM to this list also.

Overall country music has sold steadily most of the time. The individual albums might not appear on any biggest sellers list, but blues, jazz, and classical always had niche audiences. Jazz had some mainstream popularity during the 1930's big band days. What I was saying is that the big mainstream acts help the labels to put out music on genres that don't get the same media attention. It's like movie studios finance "art films" and documentaries with profits from 'summer blockbuster' movies. If a label put the same amount of money and promotion on a polka band as they did on Beyonce, the majority still wouldn't buy it. Some things just don't appeal to a wide audience. But the niche audience is more likely to be loyal than a mainstream one, which tends to jump on one thing to the next. I remember someone wondering why Will Downing can still keep an audience as all his records sound alike. Some people don't care about change or "innovation", they want something they like. They sometimes abandon the act if they try to make a change. There's folks who only like the "Yeah Yeah Yeah" mop top Beatles, but not the later stuff.

That's true but someone who likes Beyonce's "music" is more likely to download her songs for free rather than someone who likes blues, classical, jazz, etc. The record labels are losing sales due to free downloading so if they have any sense, they better start focusing more on pleasing the few sales they have left that they can depend on in the future if they want to survive in the long run. With free downloading increasing these days, depending on people who like current mainstream music to buy music in the future is like depending on a crackhead to show up to mow your lawn. Putting their focus more into less popular genres with loyal buyers is better in the longrun anyway. It gives those genres more limelight and it also decreases in the amount of bullshit music such as today's mainstream from being made. It's very simple. Since a huge portion of fans of that genre would rather download for free rather than buy, then just stop signing and releasing the "music" from"artists" of that genre altogether and then they won't have anything to download for free.

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[Edited 10/10/12 14:59pm]

vainandy said:

That's true but someone who likes Beyonce's "music" is more likely to download her songs for free rather than someone who likes blues, classical, jazz, etc. The record labels are losing sales due to free downloading so if they have any sense, they better start focusing more on pleasing the few sales they have left that they can depend on in the future if they want to survive in the long run. With free downloading increasing these days, depending on people who like current mainstream music to buy music in the future is like depending on a crackhead to show up to mow your lawn.

It's too late for that, as some of the audience who is more likely to buy has nowhere to go. There's still some record stores where I live, but I hear that they've gone in other places. To order a CD online you have to have a computer, the internet (and not dial up), and a credit card. Many people only use cash, and a lot of the online places don't accept money orders. Also, if you buy it in the store, you can get the record right then, and if something is wrong with it, you can go back and exchange it. To do that with mail order, you have to pay postage and maybe buy something to mail it back in. Then wait for the slow mail service, both ways. If it's a used album, you can look at it to see if it has a lot of scratches, damaged cover, CD booklet, etc. Online, you're just taking someone's word, and their criteria might be different than yours. My friend ordered a used CD from Amazon, but it wound up being a CD-R, and not the real official CD.

SchlomoThaHomo said:

So what REALLY killed it? Piracy? A decline in the quality of the artists/songs? Corporate greed? Is there a true root cause?

Piracy. iTunes making individual tracks available, killing the album in the process. Short sighted label execs who didn't adopt the MP3 format when they were approached about it by the Braunhofer Institute in the late 90s.

One of the BIGGEST mistakes is when the Record Industry when they got rid of the single. When they controlled the recording process from the rooter to the tutter they could set the price and strong arm brick and mortar stores to follow accordingly. Its over, steal music? Why, when you have upteem artist giving music away or allowing the consumer to pay whatever they want to? Checkout Timmys "New Music" thread some albums can be downloaded in their entirety for free or artist asking you pay whatever via Paypal.

It's a new day in music-land.

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[Edited 10/10/12 16:16pm]

errant said:

Death of the record industry? Good. Kill it. Kill it completely dead and let something better grown in its place.

Stupid.

MickyDolenz said:

The record business collapsing would put thousands of people out of work. The industry is not just the performers, it's also the people who work at the record/CD/tape pressing plants, the distributors, the art departments, promotion, etc. It would also hurt employees who work in the concert business and radio. Sooner or later, the older acts that make the most money touring are not going to be able to perform (like Phil Collins) or be around at all. The CEO's of the companies are not really going to be hurt if the industry dies, because some of them are rich already, but it will hurt most of the lower level employees, like Enron. People always griped about popular music, but the big acts are funding music that is less popular. At any time, very few acts have had big sales or mainstream attention. If the labels were depending on the sales of blues, Hawaiian, zydeco, or classical albums, it would have went out of business a long time ago. People think performers have some kind of control or power, when they're just employees of a company, no different than employees of any other place.

It is too late. The fat lady has already sung. The industry has already collapsed, already put MILLIONS of people out of work, pressing and distribution plants have closed, record stores are gone, there is no need anymore for in-house art departments and terrestrial radio is just about up - who listens?

"When the music is over - turn out the lights". Well, the music certainly isn't over but the 'record industry' is definitely not returning, at least the way you and I knew it.

smoothcriminal12 said:

CynicKill said:

Yeah so they jumped the gun, but it's really dying now and there's no turning back.

How can you be so sure?

I agree with you, Smooth. I totally think the music industry could come back in heartbeat actually. Shut down every torrent & file sharing site, & people have to buy music again

Tittypants said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

How can you be so sure?

I agree with you, Smooth. I totally think the music industry could come back in heartbeat actually. Shut down every torrent & file sharing site, & people have to buy music again

They can still rip CDs into their computers and burn copies for their friends. And then their friends can burn copies for their friends, and so on and so on and so on.....

The music industry can still be killed off if everyone chips in and does their part to help.

vainandy said:

Tittypants said:

I agree with you, Smooth. I totally think the music industry could come back in heartbeat actually. Shut down every torrent & file sharing site, & people have to buy music again

They can still rip CDs into their computers and burn copies for their friends. And then their friends can burn copies for their friends, and so on and so on and so on.....

The music industry can still be killed off if everyone chips in and does their part to help.

I was just being sarcastic actually.

None of what I said would ever happen.

TD3 said:

One of the BIGGEST mistakes is when the Record Industry when they got rid of the single. When they controlled the recording process from the rooter to the tutter they could set the price and strong arm brick and mortar stores to follow accordingly.

I was working in a music store the summer that it was all about Beyonce, 50 Cent and Justin Timberlake's (solo) debuts. Their singles were not moving, but the full album CDs were. They all had singles but it really made no sense to buy those for 3.99 or 4.99 by that point. If all you wanted is one song, that is REALLY easy to get online for free, even ten years ago. That's all I could see from my minor experience restocking.

The real story these days is that no one in the younger generation even downloads anything because streaming to computers and smartphones is so much faster now that they're listening on Spotify, 8tracks, etc and don't care about saving and uploading to an iPod.

vainandy said:

Tittypants said:

I agree with you, Smooth. I totally think the music industry could come back in heartbeat actually. Shut down every torrent & file sharing site, & people have to buy music again

They can still rip CDs into their computers and burn copies for their friends. And then their friends can burn copies for their friends, and so on and so on and so on.....

The music industry can still be killed off if everyone chips in and does their part to help.

Yes - and this was a main focus in the late 90's when CD sales were slipping. HMV had commissioned a focus group with the main question "How many CD's do you purchase monthly". Almost everyone in the group stated that with the record store's handy return policy, they didn't have to buy CD's anymore. They simply walked in, paid for the CD, took it home, passed it around and returned it - money back.

vainandy said:

Tittypants said:

I agree with you, Smooth. I totally think the music industry could come back in heartbeat actually. Shut down every torrent & file sharing site, & people have to buy music again

They can still rip CDs into their computers and burn copies for their friends. And then their friends can burn copies for their friends, and so on and so on and so on.....

The music industry can still be killed off if everyone chips in and does their part to help.

That is an extremely slow means of dissemination of music which doesn't compare to uploading something to the net, reaching a potential audience of billions in seconds.

Placido Domingo speaks about ipods on The Tonight Show Oct. 10, 2012

MickyDolenz said:

Placido Domingo speaks about ipods on The Tonight Show Oct. 10, 2012

I've never owned an iPod or mp3 player either. I agree with nova: for me it's all about streaming.