I used to be so turned off by Mayer's public persona that I didn't really bother checking out his music. However, I've been listening to some of his songs lately and I like a lot of it, especially "I don't trust myself (with loving you)" and "Vultures."

Does anybody have any favs of his? How do you rank him as a guitarist?

Why does everyone love that "Vultures" song?

I'm a black guy and I will forever love that whole Continuum album. he will never top it.

I'm black & I think John Mayer is dope! I remember buying his debut when it first came out. He has some good music imo.

If you're black and you like Mayer

Clap your hands

Aw man, what the hell is wrong with y'all?

Mayer sucks.

scriptgirl said:

Why does everyone love that "Vultures" song?

Because it has a relatable message; No matter what I do, to get ahead or how successful I become, there are always somebody, (Vultures) trying to bring me, (you) down.

I love 'Gravity' and 'Dreaming with a Broken Heart'....mmmm If he wasn't such a douchewad, I'd pay to see him live but he can't have my dollas until he learns how to treat the ladies right. But his albums all have good songs on them..he's pretty consistent with his material I think.

Yeah, I'm a black man that digs Mayer, too.

I thought he was just a DMB ripoff when No Such Thing debuted.

He got my attention with Your Body Is A Wonderland.

I appreciated Bigger than My Body

I remember seeing him perform Come Back to Bed on a Talk Show and being blown away by his guitar playing.

I became a full-blown fan when Try! came out. Love the Trio stuff.

Continuum is one of my favorite albums of the past decade.

My favorite song from that album is either Belief or Dreaming With a Broken Heart.

It seems like most everyone is name checking Continuum, so I guess I need to check out that entire album.

Seeing John Mayer on Austin City Limits (I don't know when it was taped though) is what made me open my ears to him a bit. He seems a bit like Robert Cray (although, I wouldn't put him in the same league as Cray who is one of my favorites) in that his music is blues based but has elements of pop and soul in it.

I'm not really a fan of Mayer but I find it amusing that for some black men it is somewhat embarrassing to admit that you like his music. I guess he does have a very "white" image, particularly his early material, but people should just like what they like and not care what others think.

I'm not impressed by the fact you're black, a man, or that you like John Mayer.

rialb said:

I'm not really a fan of Mayer but I find it amusing that for some black men it is somewhat embarrassing to admit that you like his music. I guess he does have a very "white" image, particularly his early material, but people should just like what they like and not care what others think.

It's not just his image, it's his music, too.

No Such Thing and Your Body Is A Wonderland sound the whitest music ever recorded.

It's good music, but it also sounds like the soundtrack to Amber losing her virginity before heading off to college.

[Edited 8/28/12 2:43am]

Paris9748430 said:

rialb said:

I'm not really a fan of Mayer but I find it amusing that for some black men it is somewhat embarrassing to admit that you like his music. I guess he does have a very "white" image, particularly his early material, but people should just like what they like and not care what others think.

It's not just his image, it's his music, too.

No Such Thing and Your Body Is A Wonderland sound the whitest music ever recorded.

It's good music, but it also sounds like the soundtrack to Amber losing her virginity before heading off to college.

My brother went to Berklee while Mayer was there; said he was corny and it helps

to explain his cornball approach to music today. I think his music is corny without

my brother's assessment 'though.

He's a white guy who has a blues foundation and white people make a big deal of

white guys who can play the blues or jazz well: you know it, Eric Clapton knows,

Gerry Mulligan knew it and so does Dave Brubeck. And Miles Davis would tell it

to ya' face!

duccichucka said:

Paris9748430 said:

It's not just his image, it's his music, too.

No Such Thing and Your Body Is A Wonderland sound the whitest music ever recorded.

It's good music, but it also sounds like the soundtrack to Amber losing her virginity before heading off to college.

My brother went to Berklee while Mayer was there; said he was corny and it helps

to explain his cornball approach to music today. I think his music is corny without

my brother's assessment 'though.

He's a white guy who has a blues foundation and white people make a big deal of

white guys who can play the blues or jazz well: you know it, Eric Clapton knows,

Gerry Mulligan knew it and so does Dave Brubeck. And Miles Davis would tell it

to ya' face!

Not true. Some white people make a big deal of white guys who can play the blues or jazz well but the vast majority of white people don't care about John Mayer, Eric Clapton, Gerry Mulligan, Dave Brubeck or Miles Davis. When Mayer was seen as a pop star "white people" may have cared about him but now that he is a "serious" musician he is playing to a much smaller audience.

rialb said:

duccichucka said:

My brother went to Berklee while Mayer was there; said he was corny and it helps

to explain his cornball approach to music today. I think his music is corny without

my brother's assessment 'though.

He's a white guy who has a blues foundation and white people make a big deal of

white guys who can play the blues or jazz well: you know it, Eric Clapton knows,

Gerry Mulligan knew it and so does Dave Brubeck. And Miles Davis would tell it

to ya' face!

Not true. Some white people make a big deal of white guys who can play the blues or jazz well but the vast majority of white people don't care about John Mayer, Eric Clapton, Gerry Mulligan, Dave Brubeck or Miles Davis. When Mayer was seen as a pop star "white people" may have cared about him but now that he is a "serious" musician he is playing to a much smaller audience.

You bring up some good points. In fact, I may have to change my entire perspective about

black blues/jazz players and their "success" as compared to white blues/jazz players and

how they incorporated Black American art forms. Why?

Black Americans, for the most part, did not buy jazz/blues albums when those two art forms

were popular. In the 40s, 50s, and 60s, Black American jazz players, if they were successful,

was because White Americans were purchasing their albums, not Black Americans. Black

American blues/jazz players ("serious" musicians) had to tour Europe and played to pre-

dominantly white audiences in order to sustain or make a living. Black American audiences

purchased Black American pop art forms, and not the more serious music being made by

Black Americans. People with pop tastes usually avoid classical/jazz or other serious art-

forms. That being said, I do actually disagree with you. Black Americans didn't purchase

serious Black American music at the same rate that White Americans did. Whenever I see

Thelonius Monk or Miles Davis videos on Youtube, they are playing to a mostly white audience.

Now, someone, inexorably, is going to come in this thread and say "What does color have

to do with music? Why can't I just enjoy music - I don't care about color!" To that I say:

bullshit. Black Americans, obviously, come from a legacy where we were discriminated

against because of our color; there were obstacles that needed to be overcome by Black

Americans who were involved in show business because they were Black that White enter-

tainers did not have to even consider. And besides, the entire context of this thread is one

based upon skin color: "A Black Man Who Digs John Mayer."

I'm not being a racist here. I am just digging deeper into why a thread about Black people

liking John Mayer, a blues player playing an original Black American music, exists and how

it came to be that Black people have to almost apologize for liking a White blues player.

Anyways, as a guitarist, John Mayer gets 2.5 outta 5 stars: he's a derivative of Eric Clapton,

who, again, I think is heralded mostly because he's a serious White blues player with some

serious chops, and not entirely original. Me? I gotta go with Johnny Winter - that albino is

the troof! I listened to Continuum and Mayer doesn't say anything that hasn't already been

said. Kenny Wayne Shepherd is more interesting to me. But all of this is just an opinion!

I've always said. White people tend to study our music, while we take the the following approach,"since it was ours in the first place, we should not have to study it". This philosophy is why I believe, black music is in the state that it is in, today.

I don't understand why race identification would matter on music...

love his new cd

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't understand why race identification would matter on music...

love his new cd

You're being a bit naive, dontcha think?

If race I.D.didn't matter at all, why was it a big deal that Obama

was the 1st Black American male to be elected POTUS? In a

society free from using racial categories as a designation

for anything, let alone music, the color and parentage color

of Obama's folks wouldn't have been a big deal!

Racial identification is human nature and in and of itself harm-

less. Bigotry is the problem when dealing with race (in this context,

the color of your skin).

arX said:

[img:$uid]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w4/arXter/gifs/high-five_fail.gif[/img:$uid]

This means nothing to the conversation at hand other than a black dude

gave John Mayer a hug.

...

I dig his playing, especially "Try" , and the trio stuff...but this thread kinda reminds me of the Dave Chapelle skit that featured John Mayer...

...

[Edited 8/28/12 9:16am]

duccichucka said:

rialb said:

Not true. Some white people make a big deal of white guys who can play the blues or jazz well but the vast majority of white people don't care about John Mayer, Eric Clapton, Gerry Mulligan, Dave Brubeck or Miles Davis. When Mayer was seen as a pop star "white people" may have cared about him but now that he is a "serious" musician he is playing to a much smaller audience.

You bring up some good points. In fact, I may have to change my entire perspective about

black blues/jazz players and their "success" as compared to white blues/jazz players and

how they incorporated Black American art forms. Why?

Black Americans, for the most part, did not buy jazz/blues albums when those two art forms

were popular. In the 40s, 50s, and 60s, Black American jazz players, if they were successful,

was because White Americans were purchasing their albums, not Black Americans. Black

American blues/jazz players ("serious" musicians) had to tour Europe and played to pre-

dominantly white audiences in order to sustain or make a living. Black American audiences

purchased Black American pop art forms, and not the more serious music being made by

Black Americans. People with pop tastes usually avoid classical/jazz or other serious art-

forms. That being said, I do actually disagree with you. Black Americans didn't purchase

serious Black American music at the same rate that White Americans did. Whenever I see

Thelonius Monk or Miles Davis videos on Youtube, they are playing to a mostly white audience.

Now, someone, inexorably, is going to come in this thread and say "What does color have

to do with music? Why can't I just enjoy music - I don't care about color!" To that I say:

bullshit. Black Americans, obviously, come from a legacy where we were discriminated

against because of our color; there were obstacles that needed to be overcome by Black

Americans who were involved in show business because they were Black that White enter-

tainers did not have to even consider. And besides, the entire context of this thread is one

based upon skin color: "A Black Man Who Digs John Mayer."

I'm not being a racist here. I am just digging deeper into why a thread about Black people

liking John Mayer, a blues player playing an original Black American music, exists and how

it came to be that Black people have to almost apologize for liking a White blues player.

Anyways, as a guitarist, John Mayer gets 2.5 outta 5 stars: he's a derivative of Eric Clapton,

who, again, I think is heralded mostly because he's a serious White blues player with some

serious chops, and not entirely original. Me? I gotta go with Johnny Winter - that albino is

the troof! I listened to Continuum and Mayer doesn't say anything that hasn't already been

said. Kenny Wayne Shepherd is more interesting to me. But all of this is just an opinion!

Huh, you're going much deeper than me and I'm not sure I can keep up with you.

This is nothing new or original but I think that one of the big differences between white and black audiences is that blacks tend to move on much quicker and look for different sounds and music. As you pointed out it was largely white audiences that sustained the blues/jazz musicians from the forties-sixties. At that time the black audience was largely abandoning blues and jazz in favour of the new R & B/Soul music that was coming up. It's a bit strange but black artists tend to innovate and then they are fairly quickly abandoned by their black audience and it is whites that listen to them and in some cases pick up musically from where they left off. Arguably if not for the interest that white audiences have shown for "black" music much of it may have been largely forgotten today. Of course there are exceptions and I am speaking generally but even if you believe that white musicians are only copying black musicians ultimately that is good for the music because it helps expose it to a wider audience (black, white and other) and keep it alive.

I'll defend Clapton a little bit. At his peak (late sixties/very early seventies) I think he was very original. Of course he was influenced by blues (black) players but the work he did in Cream and Derek and the Dominos went beyond his influences. After he came back from his "retirement" he was a much more safe and conservative musician and, at least to me, much less interesting but I would still argue that at his best he was a fairly original player.

It's kind of funny that you mentioned Kenny Wayne Sheppard. I was recently wondering whatever happened to him (and Jonny Lang). Those two are probably perfect examples of what you were talking about when you said how white people make a big deal of whites who play the blues/jazz well. They both received an insane amount of hype when they debuted but the music they made, while perhaps being technically sound, was fairly boring and uninteresting.

I confess that I am not too familiar with Johnny Winter but he is somewhat unique. Obviously he is very dedicated to the blues and is quite capable of playing traditional blues music but his playing is very explosive and has a lot of "rock" in it. Unlike Clapton I would argue that he has remained an exciting player throughout his career.

shorttrini said:

I've always said. White people tend to study our music, while we take the the following approach,"since it was ours in the first place, we should not have to study it". This philosophy is why I believe, black music is in the state that it is in, today.

I didn't read this post before I typed my last response but you basically said what I was trying to say but you did it using many fewer words.

rialb said:

duccichucka said:

You bring up some good points. In fact, I may have to change my entire perspective about

black blues/jazz players and their "success" as compared to white blues/jazz players and

how they incorporated Black American art forms. Why?

Black Americans, for the most part, did not buy jazz/blues albums when those two art forms

were popular. In the 40s, 50s, and 60s, Black American jazz players, if they were successful,

was because White Americans were purchasing their albums, not Black Americans. Black

American blues/jazz players ("serious" musicians) had to tour Europe and played to pre-

dominantly white audiences in order to sustain or make a living. Black American audiences

purchased Black American pop art forms, and not the more serious music being made by

Black Americans. People with pop tastes usually avoid classical/jazz or other serious art-

forms. That being said, I do actually disagree with you. Black Americans didn't purchase

serious Black American music at the same rate that White Americans did. Whenever I see

Thelonius Monk or Miles Davis videos on Youtube, they are playing to a mostly white audience.

Now, someone, inexorably, is going to come in this thread and say "What does color have

to do with music? Why can't I just enjoy music - I don't care about color!" To that I say:

bullshit. Black Americans, obviously, come from a legacy where we were discriminated

against because of our color; there were obstacles that needed to be overcome by Black

Americans who were involved in show business because they were Black that White enter-

tainers did not have to even consider. And besides, the entire context of this thread is one

based upon skin color: "A Black Man Who Digs John Mayer."

I'm not being a racist here. I am just digging deeper into why a thread about Black people

liking John Mayer, a blues player playing an original Black American music, exists and how

it came to be that Black people have to almost apologize for liking a White blues player.

Anyways, as a guitarist, John Mayer gets 2.5 outta 5 stars: he's a derivative of Eric Clapton,

who, again, I think is heralded mostly because he's a serious White blues player with some

serious chops, and not entirely original. Me? I gotta go with Johnny Winter - that albino is

the troof! I listened to Continuum and Mayer doesn't say anything that hasn't already been

said. Kenny Wayne Shepherd is more interesting to me. But all of this is just an opinion!

Huh, you're going much deeper than me and I'm not sure I can keep up with you.

This is nothing new or original but I think that one of the big differences between white and black audiences is that blacks tend to move on much quicker and look for different sounds and music. As you pointed out it was largely white audiences that sustained the blues/jazz musicians from the forties-sixties. At that time the black audience was largely abandoning blues and jazz in favour of the new R & B/Soul music that was coming up. It's a bit strange but black artists tend to innovate and then they are fairly quickly abandoned by their black audience and it is whites that listen to them and in some cases pick up musically from where they left off. Arguably if not for the interest that white audiences have shown for "black" music much of it may have been largely forgotten today. Of course there are exceptions and I am speaking generally but even if you believe that white musicians are only copying black musicians ultimately that is good for the music because it helps expose it to a wider audience (black, white and other) and keep it alive.

I'll defend Clapton a little bit. At his peak (late sixties/very early seventies) I think he was very original. Of course he was influenced by blues (black) players but the work he did in Cream and Derek and the Dominos went beyond his influences. After he came back from his "retirement" he was a much more safe and conservative musician and, at least to me, much less interesting but I would still argue that at his best he was a fairly original player.

It's kind of funny that you mentioned Kenny Wayne Sheppard. I was recently wondering whatever happened to him (and Jonny Lang). Those two are probably perfect examples of what you were talking about when you said how white people make a big deal of whites who play the blues/jazz well. They both received an insane amount of hype when they debuted but the music they made, while perhaps being technically sound, was fairly boring and uninteresting.

I confess that I am not too familiar with Johnny Winter but he is somewhat unique. Obviously he is very dedicated to the blues and is quite capable of playing traditional blues music but his playing is very explosive and has a lot of "rock" in it. Unlike Clapton I would argue that he has remained an exciting player throughout his career.

It is not often I come across a post here where I don't have something someone has

written that I can't respond to because it is on point other than to say "It's on point."

I find it strange that one would not expect a Black man to dig John Mayer.

He's got a lot of heart in his music.

Of course, some of it is bubble gum pop--but it's GOOD bubble gum pop.

I've known quite a few black folks in my day, and none of them are typically stereotypical when it comes to music. They like Nine Inch Nails, classical music, jazz, and just about everythign a white person would like, except Yanni. I've yet to meet one that liked Yanni.

duccichucka said:

It is not often I come across a post here where I don't have something someone has

written that I can't respond to because it is on point other than to say "It's on point."

Don't worry. If we keep the conversation going long enough I will end up saying something stupid that you will want to respond to.

imago said:

I find it strange that one would not expect a Black man to dig John Mayer.

He's got a lot of heart in his music.

Really? I don't. Black people for the most part, don't listen to or buy

blues albums. I went to go see Johnny Winter once and I've seen BB King

and Ray Charles (before he died) and both venues were all filled with white

people.

If you are a jazz musician, doing a radio interview with Charlamagne Tha' God

ain't really on your to-do list.